Dissension in the GLBT Community and there representation.

Posted by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't usually like to blog very often as im not as good as a writer as most of the bloggers on here, but with the latest revelation of the dc bunker character as well as the growing social fragmentation between the different aspects and character types within the community i feel that i should respond to this dissension and try to nip it in the bud. Now when it comes to flamboyant characters or fem characters who are "apparently" in your face about sexuality there seems to be a growing uproar when ever one is introduced now again people are also quick to throw the Stereotype lable on it also, but i'm afraid that the lable is spun by the media to unproptionate levels.

In the start of the underground community you had your equal share of Fems, Mascs and those who classified as inbetween, you had your drag queens, and your leather boys and those who just wanted to party with people who they had something in common with, they all had equal part to play in upcoming struggle, they chilled out in the same spots the leathers would go to the drag shows, the drags would go the leather clubs to show support to there counterparts that they were all in the same camp and hence why they came together and started the Stonewall riots when there clubs came under siege.

Now all of sudden over the last decade or so the community has started to fragment into factions and so began the argument between the the groups, suddenly your to fem or your to masc or im not like that blah blah blah sh!t started, and now its gotten to point of bordering ridiculous, what your doing is not what the community was about so stop effing hating on eachother and start acting like a community your supposed to be supporting eachother not constantly arguing over who is better, the answer is your all important no ones said you weren't except the media and you fell right into there trap. SNAP OUT OF IT!

Now in regards to characters while some are obviously based on this media stereotype, let it be known that some people are flamboyant in character and some are fems and some will tell you about yourself if you get rude, and its about time some characters got to get portayed properly in style and chatacter, yes drag queens and fem boys can be b!tchy and tough as nails in attitude because they've been through alot of hate, victimisation and attacks, there persona's have hardened some become cruel and mean to someone giving them the eye, and why not you haven't gone out you way to show you ain't like the rest *clicks fingers* loool but you get the point done properly using a good bases or character resource even perhaps getting it from the queens mouth him/herself could benefit these loud take no sh!t characters and its about time it was done, and done properly.

There ive had my rant now! Just hope these new characters get some good backround info into there history and people stop being haters of different types of types.

#1 Posted by jordama (4225 posts) - - Show Bio

I think something that is always forgotten about "stereotype" characters is that people like that really do exist and I think if someone said that a character I identified with was a stereotype I would be offended.

But I do agree there has been a move towards a "Good Gay" and a "Bad Gay" and that is really a shame.

#2 Edited by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@jordama:  Thanks for your reply and opinion on the matter hun :D yeah its a shame that they pigeon hole character types,  that and there not written proprely to begin with either.
#3 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

As the internet is a place for freedom of expression, I will say my piece. No doubt I may lose a few followers for my view, but alas, you can't please everyone.
 
I don't think it is fair to accuse the community of not behaving like a community. If we just accepted everyone, then that would make for an incredibly unbalanced equation. You need differing people, differing opinions and differing views, it is how the world balances out. In the instance of homosexuality, I still stand by the fact that there is no Good Gay or Bad Gay, there is only 'Homosexuality' and that is the inherent problem. Why should people be forced to accept people like that? If we lived by that logic, shouldn't I be forced to also accept murderers, even though I believe that they are wrong and the actions they commit are evil?
 
It was a thought-stirring blog, I think you did well.

#4 Edited by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect:  Thanks for the opinion but i was reffering to to glbt community in specifics the term of the good gay and bad gay are terms used to describe the altering perseption of what is deemed stereotype and what is spun in media, as for your later comments as homosexuality being a problem again your opinion and i don't see the connection between homosexuality and murderer's while homosexulity may be deemed evil by some in actions it is not, for you are not taking someones life hence how i don't see the connection, but thanks for checking it out.
#5 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@kiss_lamia: My issues with "stereotypical" homosexual (or any type of stereotyped character, really) characters is that they become a vessel for lazy writing. Take a look at the article on Bunker. Outside of him being gay, and all of his characteristics being derived from that, he doesn't seem to have a lot of personality. That's what I have a problem with. 
#6 Edited by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: Well we'll have to wait and see on that one but i know what you mean about lazy writting which is kind why i want a fem or flam character to be written properly for a change its annoying that writers take to many liberties these days and don't research there creations and concepts in depth.
#7 Posted by danhimself (22480 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't see the problem with the character....why can't a writer start with saying "ok first thing is I want to writer a gay character" then go on from there....I've see a lot of people say "why can't they just be like Batwoman and be reserved about their sexuality" .... why can't the character be loud and in your face about it?....some people are actually like that

#8 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect said:
As the internet is a place for freedom of expression, I will say my piece. No doubt I may lose a few followers for my view, but alas, you can't please everyone.
 
I don't think it is fair to accuse the community of not behaving like a community. If we just accepted everyone, then that would make for an incredibly unbalanced equation. You need differing people, differing opinions and differing views, it is how the world balances out. In the instance of homosexuality, I still stand by the fact that there is no Good Gay or Bad Gay, there is only 'Homosexuality' and that is the inherent problem. Why should people be forced to accept people like that? If we lived by that logic, shouldn't I be forced to also accept murderers, even though I believe that they are wrong and the actions they commit are evil? It was a thought-stirring blog, I think you did well.
If you, or anyone, place homosexuality on the same scale as murder... therein lies the problem.
Moderator
#9 Edited by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself: thats what i ment with my blog seeing a fem or flam being bold with it and done properly could be epic in portrayal of realism to the character if researched and  well written.
#10 Posted by lykopis (10752 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiss_lamia said:

@danhimself: thats what i ment with my blog seeing a fem or flam being bold with it and done properly could be epic in portrayal of realism to the character if researched and well written.

I agree. As I reader, I would appreciate a more in depth characterization of a gay character outside of the projected stereo-type I've seen so far. It shouldn't be a matter of introducing a character and leaving him/her as being identified as being homosexual.

#11 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@pixelized said:
@RainEffect said:
As the internet is a place for freedom of expression, I will say my piece. No doubt I may lose a few followers for my view, but alas, you can't please everyone.
 
I don't think it is fair to accuse the community of not behaving like a community. If we just accepted everyone, then that would make for an incredibly unbalanced equation. You need differing people, differing opinions and differing views, it is how the world balances out. In the instance of homosexuality, I still stand by the fact that there is no Good Gay or Bad Gay, there is only 'Homosexuality' and that is the inherent problem. Why should people be forced to accept people like that? If we lived by that logic, shouldn't I be forced to also accept murderers, even though I believe that they are wrong and the actions they commit are evil? It was a thought-stirring blog, I think you did well.
If you, or anyone, place homosexuality on the same scale as murder... therein lies the problem.
That's twisting my words.
 
I made a hypothesis. If a community should have to accept something that members of the community believe is wrong, then shouldn't that same rule apply to other things that the community believe is wrong?
#12 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect said:
@pixelized said:
@RainEffect said:
As the internet is a place for freedom of expression, I will say my piece. No doubt I may lose a few followers for my view, but alas, you can't please everyone.
 
I don't think it is fair to accuse the community of not behaving like a community. If we just accepted everyone, then that would make for an incredibly unbalanced equation. You need differing people, differing opinions and differing views, it is how the world balances out. In the instance of homosexuality, I still stand by the fact that there is no Good Gay or Bad Gay, there is only 'Homosexuality' and that is the inherent problem. Why should people be forced to accept people like that? If we lived by that logic, shouldn't I be forced to also accept murderers, even though I believe that they are wrong and the actions they commit are evil? It was a thought-stirring blog, I think you did well.
If you, or anyone, place homosexuality on the same scale as murder... therein lies the problem.
That's twisting my words.  I made a hypothesis. If a community should have to accept something that members of the community believe is wrong, then shouldn't that same rule apply to other things that the community believe is wrong?
How were your words twisted? You placed Homosexuals and Murderers in the same category of "evil," as a reason for not accepting them. If that's not how you meant it, that's fine, but that certainly how it came across as kiss_lamia also reached that conclusion.
Moderator
#13 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@pixelized said:
@RainEffect said:
@pixelized said:
@RainEffect said:
As the internet is a place for freedom of expression, I will say my piece. No doubt I may lose a few followers for my view, but alas, you can't please everyone.
 
I don't think it is fair to accuse the community of not behaving like a community. If we just accepted everyone, then that would make for an incredibly unbalanced equation. You need differing people, differing opinions and differing views, it is how the world balances out. In the instance of homosexuality, I still stand by the fact that there is no Good Gay or Bad Gay, there is only 'Homosexuality' and that is the inherent problem. Why should people be forced to accept people like that? If we lived by that logic, shouldn't I be forced to also accept murderers, even though I believe that they are wrong and the actions they commit are evil? It was a thought-stirring blog, I think you did well.
If you, or anyone, place homosexuality on the same scale as murder... therein lies the problem.
That's twisting my words.  I made a hypothesis. If a community should have to accept something that members of the community believe is wrong, then shouldn't that same rule apply to other things that the community believe is wrong?
How were your words twisted? You placed Homosexuals and Murderers in the same category of "evil," as a reason for not accepting them. If that's not how you meant it, that's fine, but that certainly how it came across as kiss_lamia also reached that conclusion.
It was not my intention to place them in the same category. I admit I could have worded it better. 
 
I was stating that certain people in the general community believe that homosexuality is evil. In the same way, certain people in the general community believe murder is evil. I made the hypothesis that, if we are forced to accept one, then, theoretically, we should accept the other. That's where the problem of forcing a community to accept something goes wrong.
#14 Posted by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect: Fair enough thats your opinion but this post was specifically aimed at the GLBT community in general and there character portrayal. but again thanks for your opinion and clearing up what you ment.
#15 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

like everything else, homosexuality is a story element as well (in literature, not in real life) when used appropriately, it can work out really well, when it's not, it sucks

#16 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@kiss_lamia said:
@RainEffect: Fair enough thats your opinion but this post was specifically aimed at the GLBT community in general and there character portrayal. but again thanks for your opinion and clearing up what you ment.
Hah, yeah, sorry for derailing your blog!
#17 Posted by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect: thats ok it was a missunderstanding
#18 Posted by SC (12947 posts) - - Show Bio

Great Blog! You should do it more often! *smile*  
 
For me personally, this issue gets tricky when I try and balance what I want to read about, in characters and stories, versus what larger groups and people might want to read about in stories and characters. I tend to have a highly refined appreciation for comics and characters, I prefer creativity, and originality and... but thats now, when I was younger I wanted to read about Rogue smashing huge things and being loud and being confident whilst also realizing that she was a tad bit insecure and invulnerable and did not like people touching her skin.  
 
Today I prefer the wit and banter, and originality, and humor, and character interaction that Peter David puts into Rictor and Shatterstar. Its more complex to me, just like all X-Factor characters are a bit more complex to me, than say many other comic books out there treating its characters (regardless of gender, orientation, race etc) and so I'll give Bunker a chance, and my knee jerk reaction was actually of weariness, but wasn't so much about how Bunker looked and colours used with him, but mainly the writer and my gripes with the writer... still, to me, given how many youths,adults struggle with homophobic attitudes or just attitudes that seem ignorant (I don't mean just homosexual youths or adults, I just mean youths and adults generally, lol), eh... I am okay if instead of the subtlety I might typically enjoy in my comics and characters I read and see a more flamboyant and loud and proud take on a character even if it seems to fit some stereotypes, because that might resonate with a lot more other fans, in ways I couldn't personally appreciate, but am grateful of regardless.  
 
So... will essentially come back to me, hoping the writer does the character and all characters justice. Just in this case (with Bunker) their might be a lot more potential in actually making a difference in people's lives the same way I know characters like Spider-man and Hulk and Wonder Woman, and Storm inspired many fans and told many fans it was okay for them to be themselves or at least help that process. That potential might not be realized though true as well. So depends. 

Moderator
#19 Posted by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC:  thankies for the compliment and responce my lovely :D
#20 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect said:
@pixelized said:
@RainEffect said:
@pixelized said:
@RainEffect said:
As the internet is a place for freedom of expression, I will say my piece. No doubt I may lose a few followers for my view, but alas, you can't please everyone.
 
I don't think it is fair to accuse the community of not behaving like a community. If we just accepted everyone, then that would make for an incredibly unbalanced equation. You need differing people, differing opinions and differing views, it is how the world balances out. In the instance of homosexuality, I still stand by the fact that there is no Good Gay or Bad Gay, there is only 'Homosexuality' and that is the inherent problem. Why should people be forced to accept people like that? If we lived by that logic, shouldn't I be forced to also accept murderers, even though I believe that they are wrong and the actions they commit are evil? It was a thought-stirring blog, I think you did well.
If you, or anyone, place homosexuality on the same scale as murder... therein lies the problem.
That's twisting my words.  I made a hypothesis. If a community should have to accept something that members of the community believe is wrong, then shouldn't that same rule apply to other things that the community believe is wrong?
How were your words twisted? You placed Homosexuals and Murderers in the same category of "evil," as a reason for not accepting them. If that's not how you meant it, that's fine, but that certainly how it came across as kiss_lamia also reached that conclusion.
It was not my intention to place them in the same category. I admit I could have worded it better.   I was stating that certain people in the general community believe that homosexuality is evil. In the same way, certain people in the general community believe murder is evil. I made the hypothesis that, if we are forced to accept one, then, theoretically, we should accept the other. That's where the problem of forcing a community to accept something goes wrong.
It still reads as though you're equating homosexuality to murder.
Moderator
#21 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

No one who already stands under the foot of prejudice should be infighting, period. That's not only counterproductive in the extreme regard, it is also practicing that which already attempt to oppress to begin with. And yes, they fell into the trap, blindly.

#22 Posted by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATPANEXE: mmmhmmmm i know but all you can do is educate and hopefully snap them out of it loool
#23 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiss_lamia: Nah. Just hug people. It's more effective that way is says more than words can.

#24 Posted by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATPANEXE: Haha snaps are fun though but i suppose hugging could work too loool
#25 Posted by BumpyBoo (8401 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE said:

No one who already stands under the foot of prejudice should be infighting, period. That's not only counterproductive in the extreme regard, it is also practicing that which already attempt to oppress to begin with. And yes, they fell into the trap, blindly.

So true :)

I enjoyed reading this, you make some good points hun - very glad you shared it <3

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