As one of the strongest and well known gods of greek, marvel made him out to be nothing special. He should be on par with the hulk but he has been shown as less.

As an immortal he should be able to handle THOR.

Does hercules have any great feats?

I'd say the outfit

Hey @powerherc would you like to list feats for Herc?

I probably would've in the past but I've done it so many times before that I just don't feel like doing it again.

towed manhattan

fought amatsu mikaboshi who was toying with galactus

I don't think I would count the second one as a feat. At least not for regular Hercules. Both Mikaboshi and Hercules were almost absurdly powered up in that story.

OMG. A THORSON thread with no mention of... never-mind I mustn't jinx it.

Oh god no. Now you've done it...

Most Marvel Gods are mid tier bricks.

I'm not trying to be a d_ck but the way people complain about characters on comic websites baffles me. Hercules isn't exactly a top priority for Marvel but they have repeatedly taken a special interest in the character and given him his own solo story as well as a role in their events so I don't really understand how they are "treating him like crap" or "making him out to be nothing special". I've read several books where Hercules proved to be more than a match for both Thor & The Hulk so that part doesn't make any sense either.

Not sure why they'd make a public property into the best of anything. Bad enough they don't hold exclusive rights on Thor.

I don't think he has been treated like crap. Like others have stated he is physically one of the strongest heroes and his portrayal is in some ways more heroic than myth and other adaptations while still being mostly faithful to his original characterization. He is usually shown on par with the Hulk. Thor is an immortal two and and a more powerful one partially thanks to his parents. Both Thor and Hercules were birthed to be more powerful than the standard god and champions of their realms. Whereas Hercules was fathered upon a mortal Thor was fathered upon the elder goddess Gaea.

Hercules has also be given a number of minis, guest starring, and his own series. For various reasons he has never had the staying power of Thor.

I don't think they've been particularly faithful to the source material, and what you're saying about their parents doesn't hold warter IMO, but I agree that he hasn't been treated like crap.

I think they have been about as faithful as one can expect while still maintaining Hercules as a straight hero. They included his womanizing, pride, and temper along with his heroic traits. They did tone down some of his more violent tendencies. But they are more true than many adaptions that either portray him as a flawless hero (Hercules: TLG and Disney) or as a villain (DC and Heroes of Olympus). They have kept the myths true for the most part. So I think they have been as faithful as possible. Many of these mythological characters have so many interpretations that there almost never is any one "faithful" interpretation.

The parents part is because Odin specifically set out to father a champion whose power did not solely rely on himself and to one day surpass him. That is the usual explanation for why Thor so much more powerful than his brothers. I don't think Hercules was ever intended to surpass Zeus. I cannot see Zeus's ego allowing that. Hercules was meant to be a protector of Olympus to replace Ares, but in Marvel at least a lot of his power can be attributed to Athena watching over him. It seems she got Zeus to mate with Alcmene and later tricked Hera. In a way that was giving Hercules both the power of Zeus and Hera. Since some of Hercules' power came from that I think that helped close the gap.

@seekquaze: Except...well you know, the constant need to de-power him. Though aside from that, yeah...Herc over here is treated a lot better than what DC has done to him...aside from his solo series in the 70s but no one here seems to have that or even know about aside from a few people and I don't think it makes up for what DC has done with him onward.

Especially DC has treated him like crap, because the only 2 things people know clearly about DC's Herc is that

1. He is a douchebag

2. He is a rapist apparently...

His solo series showed him as what he is...a hero, in a way he is much like Marvel's Herc but DC scrapped that idea for some BS reason after it was done.......anyway, not wanting to rant now.

My only gripes with Marvel's Herc is that

1. They depower him for some reason....which I don't understand why, he shouldn't.

2. They don't really show enough of his H2H skill, which yes I know that he has shown in some issues and his solo series. But what I mean is, they should show it more constantly. Brawling is fine every once and awhile, but making Herc into just a brawler seems kinda....eh.

3. This one isn't really a big deal, but just adding it in. They don't show his tactical genius on the battlefield(as far as I am aware), because IIRC he was pretty smart in fighting tactics/warfare.

@seekquaze: He's nicer, weaker, less skilled and dumber. That's not all that faithful to the actual stories.

Did Odin want Thor to get more powerful than him?

Yes. He was smarter in the myths. I think marvel's treated him pretty well, but I don't like that they dumbed him down. When adapting myths the two things that I don't really like are making Hades a stand in for Satan and making Hercules dumb. Other than that, I think they've treated him pretty well.

On the solo series are you referring to Hercules Unbound? I thought that was set in some alternate DC future with a Hercules who was not the Hercules who clashed with Superman? Speaking of that series, does anybody know if it was any good?
As for the gripes:

1. I think to change things up and try something new. As a top-tier strength wise Hercules will always be secondary to Hulk and Thor. He risks becoming a guy to make others look stronger like Ares and Wonder Man. Giving him weapons is almost redundant and makes him too difficult to write for his standard opponents, but he still lacks the flight and long-range attacks for the more cosmic enemies. Honestly, I think depowering him and showing him with weapons is a good opportunity to showcase his courage when he is not invincible if they would only do something with it. Restoring him to his demigod levels might be a good compromise.

2. Agreed, I wish they would show it more in general. In older comics with thought bubbles they would better show characters dodging, fighting or comment on what they were doing to give you a better idea.

3. I don't mind it much because Hercules is not a huge tactical genius. In the myths, he solved most of his problems by overpowering whatever it he was fighting. Several of the great ideas he had were from Athena. I do wish they would show him as less of a buffoon in serious situations.

^Most of the ideas he had were his own. Athena is only mentioned in some of the sources and even then it's metaphorical. The only one that most sources say was Athena's idea were the Stymphalian birds. All of his other ideas were his own and he thought his way out of situations several times.

@theacidskull said:

I don't really see how that can be considered "treating him like crap". He was depowered after SAVING THE UNIVERSE. He STILL had a solo after being depowered and they tried to make him a threat and a credible street leveler without his powers. They've never brought him back to his full glory but it was only 2 years ago that this happened. Characters like Hulk,Thor, & Cap who are clearly a priority at Marvel had been M.I.A. for just as long if not longer. From '06 to 2010, Hercules did more than ALOT more than many of major Marvel superheroes and for someone that isn't at the priority level of Spider-Man and the 4 major Avengers (Cap,Iron Man,Thor,& Hulk), I can't really see where the treatment of the character would have anyone up-in-arms. I mean as a Daredevil & a Punisher fan..I should be the one complaining.

Hercules pushed over Godzilla. There's an epic feat.

@thorson: Because womanizing alcoholics are generally treated like jokes in pop culture. However, I personally loved the 1982 limited series, the subsequent LS from the same creative team, and the Love & War storyline in Incredible Hercules.

@theacidskull said:

I'm not disagreeing with you that Hercules isn't in the best shape right now. What I'm saying is that the state he's in, isn't poor treatment of the character considering where he's at in terms of popularity and importance to the company. Depowering him may have gotten his book cancelled and caused his fans to lose interest but HE HAD A SOLO, that proves they have taken more of an interest in him than alot of other characters. The way I see it, it was just an idea that didn't go over well. After Secret Invasion when Iron Man lost Extremis and a majority of his armors, he was forced to operate with some of the most primitive suits he could get together and we saw alot more of Tony than Iron Man. Now Tony Stark is probably more interesting than a depowered Hercules but it's not like Marvel doesn't ever depower major characters. Wolverine recently has had his healing factor suppressed and that will pretty much be the basis of his new series, right? As far as I can tell Marvel is just trying out new ideas and seeing what sticks.

1.The Punisher is getting his own series after having been cancelled 3 times in the last 4 years.

2.Thunderbolts is one of the lowest selling books that Marvel still has on the shelves and will probably be cancelled soon.

3.Events have greatly taken away from Daredevil's relevance in the Marvel Universe. The quality of Waid's book isn't doing anything for his popularity or exposure which is why he had two back to back miniseries and they did the Omega Effect crossover with Spider-Man & Punisher.

I think the fact that his two main characteristics are that he is a strong guy and mythological figure are what stops him from being a front runner in the Marvel Universe because he will always play second fiddle to Hulk and Thor in those respective categories. Marvel is so much more focused on Asgardians than Olympians that I doubt he will be brought back to prominence.

@theacidskull said:

Great discussion :)

I agree.

He is one of my favorite marvel heros, but from the jump he was brought in like a second rate Thor. And has kind of been treated like that ever since.

@seekquaze: Yes am referring to the Unbound series, I don't have a problem with it being an alt universe or w/e it was. But they had a solid Hercules there, then later they just completely did a 180 and made him a douche/rapist villain to WW and then he also became just a punching bag. Which to me is a really big NO for DC...

As for the series I couldn't tell ya, haven't read it personally and no one really seems to remember/know of it if they have or haven't read it lol. Though from what little I have seen of it floating around the net, it looks nice.

yeah I was expecting another bat-bashing comment, but nope

Honestly, it is sometimes difficult to know when the myths are being metaphorical or not. When the myth uses "Athena" does that mean a hero's wisdom guided their hand or was Athena invisible next to them telling them what to do? Did the ancient Greeks note a difference? In some retellings, Athena helped out a few more times than the Stymphalian birds like against the Nemean Lion and Periclymenus.

@seekquaze: In almost every case the Nemean Lion was his own idea. With Periclymenus it wasn't really about intelligence. She just pointed out where he was hiding. In the case of the Stymphalian birds we know that she was there because she gave him clappers to scare him off/ The only ones where they were definitely her ideas were the Stymphalian Birds and Alcyoneus. Every other idea was his in most versions. Either way he was a lot smarter than the one in the comics.

Also, I agree with Cap10nate.

i never thought about it that way

when do i ever mention batman on my own thread? NEVER!!!

But i didn't even know i was that popular around here all because i mention batman.

http://www.comicvine.com/dc-comics/4010-10/forums/marvel-doesn-t-overuse-spiderman-1512592/?messageId=10801685#js-message-32 You're popular because you're an annoying prick looking for a fight.

Hercules really hasn't been treated consistently well by Marvel over the course of his existence, though he has had his chances and moments. His most respectable run came relatively recently in his first-ever ongoing title "The Incredible Hercules." The high quality of this series was largely due to writers Greg Pak and Fred Van Lente with help from several very good artists.

It seem to me Marvel has traditionally used Hercules as one-dimensional brick to rival Thor and, to a lesser degree, the Hulk as well as to fill the resident strongman role in the Avengers from time to time. Until his recent ongoing, rarely had Hercules' potential as all-around interesting character even been glimpsed. Hercules did indeed get his moment in the sun during his series and the crossover event which followed it ("Chaos War"- which has mixed reviews to say the least). Since then Hercules has been depowered, given another series (which didn't suit his character) and has returned to rarely being used/left to languish.

I've heard speculation that Hercules' recent treatment is Disney's way to push Marvel's Hercules aside so they can promote their own version of the character. Though Marvel is now owned by Disney, their respective characters do not share a common universe and each version of Hercules is free to be used in his respective universe. Because of this I don't see why Disney would have to relegate Marvel's Hercules to the background/obscurity. I hope Disney hasn't issued a corporate edict to suppress Marvel's Hercules.

I hope Hercules gets his power back soon, starts appearing regularly in comics again and is presented as a character worthy of respect.

I have to disagree with you Power Herc. Hercules showed what a great character he was when he was on the " with Namor, Avengers under Siege and that fill-in Thor issue here Hercules tells some kids about a fight he had with Thor.

I agree with your examples of times when Hercules was treated with respect, though your examples are from about 28 years ago. I was referring to the much more recent "Herc" series where he's depowered and even "Chaos War" where his character seemed to take a step or two back from the respect he was building during most of "The Incredible Hercules" ongoing.

Well he has popped up in the ultimate universe now fully powered fighting Hulk. Sadly I don't care for the ultimate universe and I hope Galactus just gobbles it all up. Hercules is also appearing in Fearless Defenders but still depowered I believe. Ares was very popular as far as I'm aware. Hercules has a decent sized fan base and I think it would make more sense having him in a comic instead of another teenage kid who has just got powers and learning how to deal with it, which is the basis for most comics at the moment (all new x-men, nova, ghost rider and so on)

I agree.

@powerherc: Who won Hercules or Hulk in Ultimate?

I haven't got that comic yet so I don't know.

THORSON go read a Herc comic and Marvel don't treat there characters like crap.

Hercules is lot stronger than people on this forum think. He is constantly fighting with people as strong or stronger Than Zeus.
He humiliated Sentry, but people on this forum like to ignore that.
He defeated god powered by cosmic Energy which was basically lolstomping pantheons from all over the universe.
He wresled down Atum who Thor failed to move.
He fought on par with Typhone who is to Zeus what Surtr is for Odin.
He lifted Axis Mundi which had weight of whole universe
He ripped apart golems Made from pure Adamantine (Which is harder than Adamantium)
He dented wall made from Adamantine
Broke out of Nightmares magic with sheer force in his own dimension
Tanked Kly'bns cosmic rays which melted adamantine
Ripped Mikaboshis limbs off (Before he became skyfather himself)

Only reason he is not so dangerous on earth is that he is holding back against mortals as he himself admitted.

A lot of this is questionable at best if not misinformed:

He defeated god powered by cosmic Energy which was basically lolstomping pantheons from all over the universe.

What instance are you talking about here?

He wresled down Atum who Thor failed to move.

When did he wrestle Atum? The worst I recall is one time he gave Atum a friendly nuggy.

He fought on par with Typhone who is to Zeus what Surtr is for Odin.

The Typhon Hercules fought is weaker than the one Zeus fought. Typhon was reduced to a more human form by the Olympians to make him easier to manage. In older stories, Typhon would start to take on a more monstrous appearance the stronger he became.

He lifted Axis Mundi which had weight of whole universe

Not saying this isn't a strength feat, but considering the metaphysical nature of it it is hard to quantify.

He ripped apart golems Made from pure Adamantine (Which is harder than Adamantium)

I don't recall it being stated that Hephaestus's automotons were made of adamantine. The fact Hercules could not break down a door made from the stuff even with his face suggest that they were not.

Tanked Kly'bns cosmic rays which melted adamantine

When did Kly'bn's beams melt adamantine? The only appearance the Skrull god ever had was in that one issue and he only used his eye beams against Ajax and Hercules.

Ripped Mikaboshis limbs off (Before he became skyfather himself)

Are you talking about the Ares mini or the first issue of "Sacred Invasion?" Either way, in both cases Mikaboshi was far weaker than in Chaos War.

Zeus himself can achieve strength levels far surpassing Hercules by augmenting himself with his magic. Its why he has been shown manhandling both Thor and Hercules in the past.

Ever heard of the THOR character before?

@thorson: I have in fact and they don't treat their characters like crap.

I'd say Marvel has had it's ups and downs with many of their characters on all tiers and have fluctuated between treating a lot of them well and then poorly and back again.

It was only in the mid-2000's when Hercules was actually starting to be treated well by Marvel but in recent years they've again treated him poorly and practically ignored him.