Why does Zeus tolerate Hercules?

#1 Posted by seekquaze (613 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus tends to deal with most things that annoy him or defy him with a thunderbolt and a one way trip to the underworld.  He tend to tolerate Pluto and Ares's rebellions, but I tend to read that because both are full gods and it would be unseemly to kill them permaneltyl.   Plus, Ares is Zeus's son by his own wife and replacing Pluto as god of the underworld would be difficult.  Pluto has shown he can do the job and it is one someone else is likely to just take up.  Better the devil you know and all that.
 
What about Hercules?  He has defined Zeus time and again by aiding mortals.   Hera even tried to get Zeus to fry Hercules for daring to free the Hulk recently.  And it has been shown and implied this is something Hercules has a long history of doing.  At the most Zeus does is banish Hercules to Earth for a little bit.  Why does Zeus tolerate it?  Is Hercules just so vital as a defender of Olympus?  One of the few children of his that have not become complete jerks?  Someone loved enough by humans that Zeus can feel proud of?  Maybe what Zeus in a way always wanted to be?
 
thoughts?

#2 Posted by joshmightbe (24907 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze: Herc is Zues' favored son so he gets away with crap his siblings can't 
#3 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4741 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it should be no different from a human father/son relationship, being that love transcends the shackles of politics and social correctitude.

#4 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio

As Herc's father, Zeus always expects the best from Hercules but is often dissapointed.  Zeus knows Herc's potential and  wants him to be wiser and do better even though Herc's headstrong (a trait ironically similar to Zeus) ways and good time attitude frustrate Zeus.  It's this frustration and Zeus' own innate impatience that make him a wrathful and sometimes overbearing father to Herc.  
 
Despite this frustration and impatience, Zeus is still well aware of what Herc has done for him, the other Olympians, Earth and even (recently) the multiverse from the time of ancient Greece right up until now.  It's Herc's truly heroic heart and spirit that Zeus admires.  And, despite appearances, Zeus loves him because he is his most worthy and selfless son. 
 
Thus, I think Zeus tolerates Herc because he loves him, because of how he's served him, because of his future potential and because he sees some of himself in him.
#5 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc is his son...what kind of question is this?

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#6 Posted by seekquaze (613 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: 
I was asking because the Olympian gods have a history of getting rid of family members that prove too troublesome.  In the Iliad Zeus made it clear the only reason he did not get rid of Ares was because of Ares being one of his few legitimate children.  One of the main themes in the GOW series is Zeus viewing Kratos, his own son, as a threat and getting rid of him.  This is found in one or two other forms of media as well.  Zeus is usually portrayed as a selfish jerk who may value family, but values his own power and survival above everything else. 
#7 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4741 posts) - - Show Bio
Think of it as a soap opera for men back in the day. It instilled family values and yet taught the most valuable lesson that could be quoted on Springer. "I brought you into this world: I can take you out!" It predates talk shows.
#8 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze said:
" @Vance Astro:  I was asking because the Olympian gods have a history of getting rid of family members that prove too troublesome.  In the Iliad Zeus made it clear the only reason he did not get rid of Ares was because of Ares being one of his few legitimate children.  One of the main themes in the GOW series is Zeus viewing Kratos, his own son, as a threat and getting rid of him.  This is found in one or two other forms of media as well.  Zeus is usually portrayed as a selfish jerk who may value family, but values his own power and survival above everything else.  "

True, Zeus is all about self-preservation.
#9 Edited by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze said:

" @Vance Astro:  I was asking because the Olympian gods have a history of getting rid of family members that prove too troublesome.  In the Iliad Zeus made it clear the only reason he did not get rid of Ares was because of Ares being one of his few legitimate children.  One of the main themes in the GOW series is Zeus viewing Kratos, his own son, as a threat and getting rid of him.  This is found in one or two other forms of media as well.  Zeus is usually portrayed as a selfish jerk who may value family, but values his own power and survival above everything else.  "

Marvel's Gods are almost nothing like their real mythological counterparts.
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#10 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro:
Though there are many differences, I wouldn't say they're almost nothing like the gods fo myth upon which they're based.
#11 Posted by seekquaze (613 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: 
There are some differences, but the Marvel versions are very similar to the mythological counterpoints.  That is one reason they have varied so much over the year.  In the older stories the gods in personality if not in power as more divine.  They were overall wise beings whose faults were more minor.  This has tended to be the way their more devout followers have seen them.  Over the last decade or so we have seen them more as the way modern culture views them.  They are viewed as mostly spoiled children whose faults overshadow their good parts.  These is a way they were sometimes even viewed in ancient times.  Both ways are essentially correct.  That is why sometimes Zeus is portrayed as a loving father and noble king whose dalliances with mortal women  and selfishness are minor faults and other times he is portrayed almost as a tyrannical a-hole who may value family some, but ultimately looks out for himself. 
#12 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
because Hercules is Zeus son... 
#13 Edited by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:

" @Vance Astro:
Though there are many differences, I wouldn't say they're almost nothing like the gods fo myth upon which they're based. "

Marvel's versions have the core basics of each god and they change whatever parts they feel like to make it their own. 
 
@seekquaze said:

" @Vance Astro:  There are some differences, but the Marvel versions are very similar to the mythological counterpoints.  That is one reason they have varied so much over the year.  In the older stories the gods in personality if not in power as more divine.  They were overall wise beings whose faults were more minor.  This has tended to be the way their more devout followers have seen them.  Over the last decade or so we have seen them more as the way modern culture views them.  They are viewed as mostly spoiled children whose faults overshadow their good parts.  These is a way they were sometimes even viewed in ancient times.  Both ways are essentially correct.  That is why sometimes Zeus is portrayed as a loving father and noble king whose dalliances with mortal women  and selfishness are minor faults and other times he is portrayed almost as a tyrannical a-hole who may value family some, but ultimately looks out for himself.  "


I'm assuming that you're asking the question because you're making a comparison between depictions of Zues, from what i've read about.Marvel Zues doesn't seem THAT MUCH like the mythological Zues,personality wise.There are many aspects of Zues explored in mythology that Marvel doesn't capture.
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#14 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"@PowerHerc said:

" @Vance Astro:
Though there are many differences, I wouldn't say they're almost nothing like the gods fo myth upon which they're based. "

Marvel's versions have the core basics of each god and they change whatever parts they feel like to make it their own. 
  
 
 
Yes, I agree, they have used the core basics as their template for the gods and then they do what they want with their characters.  Overall, this has served Marvel well through the years.
#15 Posted by seekquaze (613 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

I'm assuming that you're asking the question because you're making a comparison between depictions of Zues, from what i've read about.Marvel Zues doesn't seem THAT MUCH like the mythological Zues,personality wise.There are many aspects of Zues explored in mythology that Marvel doesn't capture. "
To me the similarities are close enough.  Part of this is due to the wide variety of character interrpretation done over the years both with the mythological Zeus and Marvels version.  In mythology, Zeus is sometimes portrayed as the wise and just king who arbitrates disputes among the gods and enforcers justice on Earth.  In others he doesn't give a lick about humans except to worship him and his ideas of justice tend to be what would benefit him best at the moment.  Same with Marvel.  Some of the older stories from the silver and bronze age have him closer to the former.  He may fight some, but retains control of his temper and acts more mature than Thor.  He acts like someone you would respect.  Other stories like "Assault on Olympus" and the recent Hulk story tend to portray him more like people think of him as myth: an arrogant jerk who lets his temper control his actions.  I would agree that from an overall modern viewpoint Zeus looks better in Marvel than to the common people.  If you ask the common person what they think of Zeus they probable think of a womanizing jerk who hurls thunderbolts at anyone who pisses him off.  Marvel's version is usually more just. 
#16 Posted by Enyalios (142 posts) - - Show Bio


I think Zeus tollorates Hercules because out of all the gods, Hercules is the most like Zeus.  Noble and strong, but likes to enjoy himself and definately loves the ladies.  Hercules is what Zeus would be if he did not have the weight of responsibility on his shoulders.  While Hercules frustrates Zeus at times, Hercules is the most noble of his children (granted that's not saying a lot all things considered).  Zeus has always been proud of his heroic children.

 

As for Ares and Pluto being full gods, if, by implication you are saying that Hercules is not, that would be a common misconception, but an error nevertheless.  When Hercules ascended to Olympus he was no longer human.  His human essence was burned away (or, according to Homer, decended to the underworld, which Marvel recently adopted).  Hercules is a full god, both in the myth and in Marvel (at least until the Chaos War).  In some of the myths, he is even counted among the 12 Olympians, having taken the seat of one of Zeus's sisters.  And he is not the only god in the circle with a human mother.  Dionysus is also half human.

#17 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio
@Enyalios said:
"

                   


I think Zeus tollorates Hercules because out of all the gods, Hercules is the most like Zeus.  Noble and strong, but likes to enjoy himself and definately loves the ladies.  Hercules is what Zeus would be if he did not have the weight of responsibility on his shoulders.  While Hercules frustrates Zeus at times, Hercules is the most noble of his children (granted that's not saying a lot all things considered).  Zeus has always been proud of his heroic children.


 


As for Ares and Pluto being full gods, if, by implication you are saying that Hercules is not, that would be a common misconception, but an error nevertheless.  When Hercules ascended to Olympus he was no longer human.  His human essence was burned away (or, according to Homer, decended to the underworld, which Marvel recently adopted).  Hercules is a full god, both in the myth and in Marvel (at least until the Chaos War).  In some of the myths, he is even counted among the 12 Olympians, having taken the seat of one of Zeus's sisters.  And he is not the only god in the circle with a human mother.  Dionysus is also half human.



                   

                "


Great post.

 

You're right - Zeus tolerates and loves Hercules becasue deep down he knows Hercules is a lot like him; a quick-tempered, prideful, womanizing powerhouse.

 

I agree - Anyone who doesn't/didn't realize that Herc has/had been a full-god since his mortal death hasn't been paying attention, especially since it was recently explained/shown in no uncertain terms in the pages of "Incredible Hercules." 

#18 Posted by CodeSaint (160 posts) - - Show Bio

Cause if he punishes him Marvel would lose one of his not so popular but that have his faithful fans.I just remembere the time that Odin takes off Thor's power cause he revealed his identity to Jane.Zeus could do that to Herc,but Odin has a much diferent personalty than Zeus,and follows more his own rules,Zeus usually is "screw the rules I'm King of Olympus"but still is kind and with a warm heart in the inside,and I agree he tolerates him cause Zeus sees the reflection of his personality on Hercules.

#19 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio
@codesaint said:
"

                    Cause if he punishes him Marvel would lose one of his not so popular but that have his faithful fans.I just remembere the time that Odin takes off Thor's power cause he revealed his identity to Jane.Zeus could do that to Herc,but Odin has a much diferent personalty than Zeus,and follows more his own rules,Zeus usually is "screw the rules I'm King of Olympus"but still is kind and with a warm heart in the inside,and I agree he tolerates him cause Zeus sees the reflection of his personality on Hercules.

                   

                "

Yeah.
#20 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

More like, why does Hercules tolerate Zeus?

#21 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jotham:
Good point. 

I think the answer to that is; because Zeus is his father and his God. 

Lots of people will put up with a lot of bad treatment from a parent, so why not Herc?

Herc was raised worshipping Zeus as the supreme being before he became a god.  Now knowing his God personally, not to mention the fact that he's Herc's dad, would tend to make him act differently and perhaps defer to and forgive Zeus no matter what. 

#22 Edited by seekquaze (613 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc:
I have wondered that question at times and I think you reached the main points.  Hercules was raised in a society where one is taught to be more accepting of falliable leaders and not to expect the same level of nobility from the gods as other society or for the gods even to make some sort of sense by human standards.  Hercules was also taught that Zeus is a truly noble and wise being.  Herc has been around him enough to know that is not always true, but knows overall Zeus usually tries to be fair and balanced.  Hercules was raised and for thousands of years accepted Zeus has both his father and king.  He is used to Zeus's crap so has come to at leas tolerate it and look at the good points.

I am also inclined to think part of it is as far as Hercules is concerned among the Olympians there is no real alternative.  As much as Herc may rebel against authority he knows that someone has to maintain a semblance of order among the Olympians.  Someone has to make sure they don't step too far out of line and oversee management of them.  Hercules is all for punching them, but who is going to lock them up?  Who is going to pass judgment?  Who going to keep an eye on them when Herc is off carousing or adventuring? As several of Herc's recent storylines showed Zeus may not be the ideal choice, but compared to the likes of Pluto, Hera, and even Athena Zeus is the best option available.

However, I do think there are certain limits that if Zeus pushes him too far Herc or in a fit of anger does something truly reprehensible just like Hera or Ares Herc may try and take him down for good.  Another reason one sort of has to put up with Zeus is he is too powerful to really do anything about.
#23 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze said:
"

                   I am also inclined to think part of it is as far as Hercules is concerned among the Olympians there is no real alternative.  As much as Herc may rebel against authority he knows that someone has to maintain a semblance of order among the Olympians.  Someone has to make sure they don't step too far out of line and oversee management of them.  Hercules is all for punching them, but who is going to lock them up?  Who is going to pass judgment?  Who going to keep an eye on them when Herc is off carousing or adventuring? As several of Herc's recent storylines showed Zeus may not be the ideal choice, but compared to the likes of Pluto, Hera, and even Athena Zeus is the best option available.However, I do think there are certain limits that if Zeus pushes him too far Herc or in a fit of anger does something truly reprehensible just like Hera or Ares Herc may try and take him down for good.  Another reason one sort of has to put up with Zeus is he is too powerful to really do anything about.

                   

                "

Yes to all of this.
#24 Posted by D3athstroke (3918 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio

@D3athstroke said:

Because he is HERCULES !



D3athstroke

Yes, of course! Hah!

It's almost too obvious. lol

#26 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

This is like asking why Odin tolerates Thor or Thor tolerates Loki...it's because they love them.

#27 Posted by PowerHerc (84340 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

This is like asking why Odin tolerates Thor.

Yes, that's exactly what it's like.

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