Why do you think the Herc series failed?

#1 Posted by seekquaze (623 posts) - - Show Bio

With it being canceled at #10 why do you think it failed? The Incredible Hercules series usually had decent numbers up until the end.

For me, it was three reasons. First, Prince of Power and and Chaos War were below my expectations or even what I consider good comics. Prince of Power was readable enough starring Cho for a brief moment before Chaos War. Chaos War itself was the biggy because it was supposed to be this epic climax involving a massive war between the gods with Herc at the lead. The flaws with it have been discussed in detail elsewhere, but basically it was not a really massive war and while it did star Hercules he was too much of a fool for most people. The magic and charm Incredible Hercules had was just lacking.

The second reason is the idea of street Herc just never appealed to me. Heroes like Daredevil and Spider-Man cover that territory. For Herc to use Greek-age weapons against street level threats in a way requires a level of violence that just doesn't work for stories set in New York. Many people cried out in the previews when Herc was turning people to stone and slicing off limbs. This type Herc doesn't work well in a modern setting when you have other heroes who can win battles without killing their enemies.

The third reason is I think the first story arc in many ways did not work. The charm of Incredible Hercules seems to have been lost based on reviews I've read. It was six issues instead of three or four. Maybe someone who read it can tell me if it came off as decompressed or not. One thing I did like about Incredible Hercules was the story arcs tended to be concise enough that it did not feel like the writers were just taking up space. Too often nowadays six issues feel like it is streatching things out. Finally, Spider-Herc did not appeal to me at all after that.

Thoughts? Did I cover pretty much everything? Did I miss something?

#2 Posted by Lonestar88 (170 posts) - - Show Bio

I read the Fear itself tie-ins, (unfortunately), and I think your second point was the biggest. A street level Herc was not interesting at all, I just kept wishing he'd get his powers back.

#3 Posted by PowerHerc (85517 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Marvel de-powered Hercules and recast him as a street-level hero.

Hercules is supposed to be the ultimate strongman and brawler, not a myth-based Spider-Man.

Marvel should give Hercules his normal/classic power levels back and at least put him in a team book as a member, though, personally, I'd like him to get another shot at his own solo monthly title.

#4 Posted by herculesfan43 (31 posts) - - Show Bio

It's the second reason for me i love Hercules he is my favorite marvel comics hero but down scaling him to fighting common crooks. It just isn't what you envision when you imagine the greatest hero of the ancient world, he needs to be an avenger again or at the very least do say a monthly series about regaining his godhood by going through some sort of paralleled to his twelve labors or something of thee likes of him and cho teaming up again. The only story i believed bearable was the spider herc story and that's cause i enjoyed him being more than human and i found it funny him turning into a giant spider and having sex with that other spider in front of the x-men.

#5 Posted by Hit_Monkey (1065 posts) - - Show Bio

I was a big fan of Herc though I didn't dig the Spider Island issues at all. If it had a chance to to develop it's own story I think it could have worked. The first 2 issues, 6.1 and the 9th to me were a damn good read.

#6 Posted by gravitypress (2066 posts) - - Show Bio

Poor move Marvel. Incredible Herc was great and depowered Herc was ok to ho hum. Give him his own title back at full power.

#7 Posted by CodeSaint (159 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hit_Monkey said:

I was a big fan of Herc though I didn't dig the Spider Island issues at all. If it had a chance to to develop it's own story I think it could have worked. The first 2 issues, 6.1 and the 9th to me were a damn good read.

Quoted for the truth.

#8 Posted by NX (307 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't realize it failed. I aint watched it in ages.


 



                    

               
#9 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

If marvel wants him to be as popular as say Thor, then I say give him the strength he is supposed to have. In Mythology he was strength personified he held up the heavens! Marvel should make him the strongest character. Since hercules only real power is his strength he should be stronger than Thor, Gladiator, Sentry, etc. Make him as strong or stronger than a fully enraged hulk.

#10 Posted by PowerHerc (85517 posts) - - Show Bio

@Valkaad said:

If marvel wants him to be as popular as say Thor, then I say give him the strength he is supposed to have. In Mythology he was strength personified he held up the heavens! Marvel should make him the strongest character. Since hercules only real power is his strength he should be stronger than Thor, Gladiator, Sentry, etc. Make him as strong or stronger than a fully enraged hulk.

Great idea!

I would love for this to happen!

#11 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

I have always loved Hercules. The problem marvel has created with him is, that they have made tons of guys just as strong as he is that can do other things. Thor can control the weather, create dimensional warps, fire energy blasts, fly, etc., etc. etc. AND is as strong as hercules (I personally don't believe he is but marvel seems to think so). Same with Gladiator - star hot eyebeams, superbreath, fly, AND as strong as Hercules. These characters are all that hercules is and more, but I don't think they should be.

Make Hercules THE strength guy.

#12 Posted by Ragnarök (174 posts) - - Show Bio

I simply don't think a Greek God should be marketed as a superhero. I think Gods including Thor should be separated from Superheroes. I've always had this problem with Marvel and DC. Aside from Thor they don't ever seem willing to create moments that give these Gods the respect they deserve.Hercules being depowered IMO was a good idea it just wasn't executed well. And for me that was a similar error they made with Black Panther. I think this was the worst possible time to depower a street leveler. Depowering a street leveler is stupid from the jump but if you're going to do it. At least be creative and write something that's worth our time. I think that's where Marvel falls short as a company and not just on Hercules. They have good concepts they just don't execute and in the long run that leads to rehashes of old storylines,gimmicks,and cop-outs, because those are the things they know are going to sell. They build all of this suspense and then their storylines never live up to expectations. Marvel just doesn't have many writers these days that are really that creative.  I've seen so many good ideas go straight down the crapper. Secret Invasion,Civil War,Dark Reign,Siege,Avengers: Initiative,Frankencastle,War of the Marvels,Shadowland,War of the Kings,Chaos War,Curse of the Mutants, etc. etc. 
 
With all that said I don't think the fact that there are characters that are as strong as Hercules is an issue because epic competition has always been something I have liked to read about in comics. I know that The Thing will never beat the Hulk in a physical confrontation if it's fair but I still like to see them go at it. I know that Thor is more powerful than Hercules but I like to see them go head on. I think what they need to do is really prove that Gladiator is a superior combatant to Thor. As in he is more skilled. It seems that Marvel has a problem making class 100's (accept for She-Hulk & Lyra) credible hand to hand combatants.(I'm not saying BTW that Thor is more skilled than Hercules) I know that Hercules has shown some skill in the past but I think he needs to take it a step further. Kind of like Wonder Woman. She is not only possibly the strongest female superhero, she's also one of DCU's best fighters. I think some really good fighting skill feats would give Hercules a boost in interest. He needs some more interesting villains too. Some whose attacks on Hercules spill into other comics, which therefore makes that enemy popular or at least gets them some recognition so that when an issue of Hercules comes out and it's based on a fight that Hercules is having with this character, people then know the character and want to see what they do this time around against Hercules.

#13 Posted by fodigg (6147 posts) - - Show Bio

They were already losing a lot of the Hulk fans to the myriad of Hulk books that are now out, and then they totally de-Hulk Herc and try to make him into something he's not. It just didn't work. Also, they removed Cho from his supporting cast. That was a misstep.

#14 Posted by thedude4731 (43 posts) - - Show Bio

The supporting cast was just horrible. i mean Griffin turns from a humanoid villain to a dog like pet for herc...who though that was a good idea? kind of creepy to me. I mean besides the hobgoblin i didnt care about any support character. i will always support herc comics but this series had it coming from the start of fear itself. Maybe if Ares came back, people might have cared more about the series but adding all those villain that i dont think the most hardcore of fans gave a damn about just seemed sad to me.

I fear we might not see hercules on the pages of comics for some time

#15 Posted by Ragnarök (174 posts) - - Show Bio
@thedude4731 said:

The supporting cast was just horrible.

Agreed.
#16 Posted by PowerHerc (85517 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's hope Marvel gets it's act together and gives Hercules his powers back and then another shot at a monthly series.

#17 Posted by CATPANEXE (9265 posts) - - Show Bio

I see where they may have felt they were running out of new stories for him, especially in light of him becoming nigh-powered prior to this, and tried to tell his character from the opposite stance in order to further explore his character, and I do enjoy reading the current series a lot, though I may be blinded by my

love for Herc, but I will say what came before was much better, if anything due to the scope of things Herc was involved in on an issue to issue basis.

Considering the accolades he's received already I wouldn't place my faith in the brass allowing him to continue in a downward trend if the numbers and pars

end up reflecting that.

#18 Posted by PowerHerc (85517 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE: So does this mean you think the brass will mandate that Herc get his powers back?

#19 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

I blame Chaos Wars.

#20 Posted by Lyrad (361 posts) - - Show Bio

I sound really petty here...... His look ruins it for me. I have never read any Herc series. Only time I have read anything of Herc is when he is in a team or just cameos in anther series. His look needs revamping I think. I know I am being pathetic, but the way he looks has put me off reading his series. I think he is the only character to have this affect on me. I know this is the most stupid reason to not like a character, but I just can't get past the fact that he looks outdated. Sorry if I have offended anyone.

#21 Posted by CATPANEXE (9265 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: I think it was the intent eventually either way, don't you? More what I was getting at is that they won't let his character fade, not being the good earner he has been over the years, and they'll restructure him the way he needs to be in the stories he needs to, and likely in the process have a better technical grasp of why this serious went on a downward trend then we will, making the point and the happening not only one not of large concern to his readers, but a plus meaning they acknowledged what was going on and our showing us the hand that they are going to try and rectify things for Herc. Added he's Pak and Van Lente's adopted son, I don't think they will let him fall, they'll lift him back up with whatever it takes to preserve their own legacies through him.

#22 Posted by PowerHerc (85517 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE: I hope you're right. Hercules should remain active and in the forefront of the Marvel Universe (fully powered, of course).

#23 Posted by moviegeek17 (1422 posts) - - Show Bio

my best guess is that people's wallets are tight these days so when they pick up marvel books its usually the avngers, x-men, wolverine and spidey books. It's sad but thats the way it is.

#24 Posted by PowerHerc (85517 posts) - - Show Bio

@moviegeek17 said:

my best guess is that people's wallets are tight these days so when they pick up marvel books its usually the avngers, x-men, wolverine and spidey books. It's sad but thats the way it is.

You could indeed be right; comic buyers are feeling the pinch in today's economy, too, and might just be sticking to the "old reliables" they've bought for years.

#25 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@Valkaad said:

I have always loved Hercules. The problem marvel has created with him is, that they have made tons of guys just as strong as he is that can do other things. Thor can control the weather, create dimensional warps, fire energy blasts, fly, etc., etc. etc. AND is as strong as hercules (I personally don't believe he is but marvel seems to think so). Same with Gladiator - star hot eyebeams, superbreath, fly, AND as strong as Hercules. These characters are all that hercules is and more, but I don't think they should be.

Make Hercules THE strength guy.

This plus Chaos Wars. Herc's been overshadowed by other heavy hitters.

#26 Posted by PowerHerc (85517 posts) - - Show Bio

@Evil_Dog: You're right; Marvel has allowed Hercules to be overshadowed by other heavy-hitters. They should change that.

#27 Posted by blur99 (374 posts) - - Show Bio

They should also give him a nicer costume.

#28 Posted by Evil_Dog (39 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

@Evil_Dog: You're right; Marvel has allowed Hercules to be overshadowed by other heavy-hitters. They should change that.

The problem with Herc is that strength is the only thing he has Thor and Ironman can do that but they have other things to offer, I think Herc should join a different team where he can shine.

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