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    Hercules

    Character » Hercules appears in 1962 issues.

    One of six Olympian sons of Zeus, Hercules was born the savior of the Gods and mankind. Known as the Prince of Power, Hercules is one of the strongest beings in existence, an Olympian God and a modern superhero recognized throughout the world for his might. He has been a champion of mankind since ancient times and continues to defend the world in the modern age - most frequently as a member of the Avengers.

    Who here liked Chaos War as a whole? (Spoilers from #5)

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    seekquaze

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    #1  Edited By seekquaze

    Personally, I think it started off decently, but got lost in its own attempts to be grandiose.  For a five issue series three felt like they were set-up.  The first two just to get the God Squad together and the fourth just to get everyone in place for the last issue.  There was no major plot twist or anything.  The God Squad did not matter.  Each issue just generated more plot holes.  Since when had Gaea been the source of creation in the MU?  Since when did she emerge out of primordial chaos first because she did not exist until the Earth did about five billion years ago?  Why couldn't Eternity play a hand when he has a long history of directly opposing threats.  Heck, Oblivion and Infinity have directly fought each other before.  How could Mikaboshi have devoured 99% of the multiverse?  Does this include the realms of Agamotto, the Pym Particles, Dark dimension, etc?  If he had devoured all of the stars why did the art still show stars?  How did Mikaboshi become part of the Kami in the first place instead of an older pantheon?  Where did Athena come from at the end?  Even omnsicent Hercules was baffled and all we get is a vague answer.  How did she know everything would end like this?  Did she truly just know the future to such great detail?  She seemed surprised by both Hera and Vali Halflings plans.  How could she guess so badly how Hercules  would react to her idea when it is fairly obvious what he would do?  What was the big deal of Hercules being the god of heroes?  What did that even mean?  Why would he be considered the greatest of gods?  Why did the Council of Godheads not have a plan for dealing with Mikaboshi when they knew he was coming?  
     
    I think in a way this series did the greatest disservice to Hercules.  In the early story arcs of "Incredible Hercules" he displayed a more mature attitude and and an ability to think when was obvious the direct approach would not work.  Yet here he is given power far beyond that of a skyfather and made all-knowing.  Despite that we do not see any of this worldly-wisdom we would expect him to have.  Instead, we get Hercules the Buffoon.   I can understand a learning curve necessary for his new powers, but I think it was taken to the point of ridiculousness.  At ever instance he insisted on calling the Council Elite as arrogant fools who should beg him for mercy, but he is the one acting the fool and out of control.  It becomes clear that attacking Mikaboshi head on is not going to work, but he insist on continuously doing that.  It gets so bad even his best friend gives up on him.  It takes that, his own omniscience and finally Mother Earth herself to tell him to change.  So how does he fight Mikaboshi then when punching him did not work before? By punching him.  Hercules just hit Super Sayan Level 2.  
     
    This was meant to be the grand finale to the Incredible Hercules series.  It was Hercules's chance to shine in his own big event.  Something which Thor never had.  At the end he is meant to be the greatest of gods in power and wisdom.  Athena, who came out of nowhere, said so herself and even Gaea hinted it earlier.  But he did not come across that as all.  His power had to be given to him.  He never truly acquired any wisdom.  He had to be guided by the hand throughout this series to its conclusion.  In the end, his own blistering and blundering nearly cost the universe and he had to be saved from it by others.  In a way, as grand as it claimed to make him it was just another in his long record of blundering into situations and having to be saved by others when he gets in way over his head.

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    PowerHerc

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    #2  Edited By PowerHerc
    @seekquaze:
    After nearly 30 years of Herc being my favorite character I'm glad anytime he even gets exposure, much less the spotlight, so I did enjoy much of the Chaos War.   
     
    You make so many good points.  The build up to this story was quite clear about Herc going far beyond anything he'd previously done while reaching his ultimate potential and finally emerging as the greatest and most powerful god ever.  Unlimited power wouldn't necessarily or automatically make anyone better able to use it, but Hercules was given wisdom omniscience with the power. Yet, despite the added wisdom and omniscience, he continued as the blundering buffoon.   
     
    In the end; even when they set it up so Herc could have his big moment, potentially a moment bigger than any Marvel hero has ever had, they apparently couldn't go through with it.  Even worse; they de-powered him at the end so they could re-invent him as a street-level hero.   
     
    Unbelievable.  Sad.  
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    Brit

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    #3  Edited By Brit
    @PowerHerc said:
    " @seekquaze:
    After nearly 30 years of Herc being my favorite character I'm glad anytime he even gets exposure, much less the spotlight, so I did enjoy much of the Chaos War.   
     
    You make so many good points.  The build up to this story was quite clear about Herc going far beyond anything he'd previously done while reaching his ultimate potential and finally emerging as the greatest and most powerful god ever.  Unlimited power wouldn't necessarily or automatically make anyone better able to use it, but Hercules was given wisdom omniscience with the power. Yet, despite the added wisdom and omniscience, he continued as the blundering buffoon.   
     
    In the end; even when they set it up so Herc could have his big moment, potentially a moment bigger than any Marvel hero has ever had, they apparently couldn't go through with it.  Even worse; they de-powered him at the end so they could re-invent him as a street-level hero.   
     
    Unbelievable.  Sad. "
    i have the same sentiments :(
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    PrinceIMC

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    #4  Edited By PrinceIMC

    I didn't mind it. It could have been told in 2 or 3 issues instead of 5 and most of the one-shots were unnecessary. The solution in the end was kinda predictable too. I hope they make use of the characters they've brought back to life instead of just forgetting about them. And I don't even mind the depowering thing.

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    PowerHerc

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    #5  Edited By PowerHerc
    @PrinceIMC said:
    "I didn't mind it. It could have been told in 2 or 3 issues instead of 5 and most of the one-shots were unnecessary. The solution in the end was kinda predictable too. I hope they make use of the characters they've brought back to life instead of just forgetting about them. And I don't even mind the depowering thing. "

    I can agree with them needing to put resurrected characters to good use.
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    Tonystarkbuttherapper

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    Besides the plot-holes, the terrible power scaling and pacing and everything just feeling too jumbled, one thing I hated about this series was the dialogue. It alternated between Cho or a god being the exposition fairy and Cho and Herc exchanging the cheesiest lines this side of an 80's action movie

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    seekquaze

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    #7  Edited By seekquaze
    @PowerHerc said:
    " @seekquaze:
    After nearly 30 years of Herc being my favorite character I'm glad anytime he even gets exposure, much less the spotlight, so I did enjoy much of the Chaos War.   
     
    You make so many good points.  The build up to this story was quite clear about Herc going far beyond anything he'd previously done while reaching his ultimate potential and finally emerging as the greatest and most powerful god ever.  Unlimited power wouldn't necessarily or automatically make anyone better able to use it, but Hercules was given wisdom omniscience with the power. Yet, despite the added wisdom and omniscience, he continued as the blundering buffoon.   
     
    In the end; even when they set it up so Herc could have his big moment, potentially a moment bigger than any Marvel hero has ever had, they apparently couldn't go through with it.  Even worse; they de-powered him at the end so they could re-invent him as a street-level hero.   
     
    Unbelievable.  Sad.   "
    I agree.  In I way I can compare this with Oeming's run on Thor.  Thor has lost the Odinpower through his ignoble actions.  Without it he cannot stop Loki and Ragnarok.  He realizes he cannot stop it on his own so he goes on a quest for wisdom and power.  Through sacrificing his eyes and life he proves himself worthy of the Odinpower acquiring wisdom as well.  He sees beyond the Ragnarok cycle and the need to let things take their course and he lets Asgard die.  He has the wisdom to see that sometimes you can't save everything and you just have to let destruction occur.  
     
    Instead of earning any of his power Hercules is given it each time.  I can understand a learning curve, but all his actions are more like a buffoon.  In the first issue he attacks all of the Skyfathers including Balder.  This being Balder the Brave who is renown for caring for every living thing.  Hercules sends him flying across the room.  By issue four Mikaboshi has made it pretty clear he is more powerful than even Hercules in his current state.  Hercules could not stop him from absorbing the heavens and Mikaboshi is only getting stronger.  Hercules also knows he is omniscient.  Does he stop for a moment to try and use this to find a solution?  No, he wants to go and try punching Mikaboshi again when that failed before and how he is to blame for Mikaboshi storming the heavens.  He never once used his omniscient and even when he does it still takes Gaea to convince him to try something else.  Another power-up that is supposed to be some form of enlightment that Gaea and Pele have to guide him through and give to him.  This wisdom supposed to be knowing when to let things take their course and not interfering to see the big picture.  To see and understand the cycle of life and death.So what does Hercules do with this new found wisdom?  He punches Mikaboshi.  Cho is the one who has to guide him into winning.  
     
    I admit omniscience does not guarantee the wisdom to use it properly, but throughout the series all Hercules demonstrated is he can punch things.  To be the greatest of gods takes a degree of wisdom if you are expected to be a ruler.  That is something Hercules has never demonstrated.  
     
    In a way, Hercules is still in Thor's shadow.  Thor's stories have had him earn most of his power and display wisdom when needed.  He earned Mjolnir.  He earned earned the Odinpower through a lifetime of nobility.  He earned supreme wisdom through repeating Odin's sacrifice.  He proved himself someone who should be able to think and be a competent ruler.  Hercules earned his godhood through his labors and mortal life of heroism, but not much more.  I am not saying he isn't heroic or won his accolades.  However, he has never demonstrated the wisdom or worth of power of the magnitude of this story.  Pak and Lente having everyone say he is worthy and the greatest, but not proving it is just a let down.
     
    Just to make it clear I like Hercules.  I think in a way his flaws make him relatable in a way Thor is not.  That is why this bugs me so about him.  Thoughout "Incredible Hercules"  he was always compared unfavorable to Thor and resented it.  Yet at ever opportunity to prove himself the better he failed.  In the "Thorcules" arc he started the very war he was supposed to prevent and had to be bailed out by Thor.  In this he does not even once stop to consider something besides "punching."  I know Hercules is no  genius, but he is no fool either.  In the myths when punching did not work he demonstrated a cunning mind.  In earlier arcs he demonstrated decent intelligence.   He is world-wise enough to know better and enough of a legend to deserve better.
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    PowerHerc

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    #8  Edited By PowerHerc
    @seekquaze:

    Nice post.  Well written, well put.
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    SC

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    #9  Edited By SC  Moderator
    @seekquaze: @PowerHerc:  
     
    Both you guys are on fire in this thread, some beautiful, well written, posts that pretty much sum up everything I feel about this topic. If either of you guys are writers, I'll pay you twice as much as I pay Marvel for you to write some Hercules fan fictions. I would bet others might as well? Deal lol That or you should apply to Marvel for jobs.  
     
    (just to be clear, I liked the Incredible Hercules series, one or two more serious arcs with a Heroic Herc demonstrating some growth and development, between the fun and funny archs would have been sorely welcome)
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    PowerHerc

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    #10  Edited By PowerHerc
    @SC said:
    " @seekquaze:  @PowerHerc:   Both you guys are on fire in this thread, some beautiful, well written, posts that pretty much sum up everything I feel about this topic. If either of you guys are writers, I'll pay you twice as much as I pay Marvel for you to write some Hercules fan fictions. I would bet others might as well? Deal lol That or you should apply to Marvel for jobs.   (just to be clear, I liked the Incredible Hercules series, one or two more serious arcs with a Heroic Herc demonstrating some growth and development, between the fun and funny archs would have been sorely welcome) "

    Thanks!  I really appreciate it.   I'm  a penciller though, not a writer.   
    I, too, agree with your opinions.  It's nice to know my opinions are matched by other Hercules fans.
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    Darkchild

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    #11  Edited By Darkchild

    I loved the event @s @ whole. I just hope th@t @ll the heroes who were still round fter the fight r b@ck 
     
    Im so s@d th@t the de@d xmen were not @ble to come b@ck since they @ll died...once more

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    PowerHerc

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    #12  Edited By PowerHerc

    Though it could have been better, I guess I did indeed enjoy "Chaos War" overall.   
    Hercules did actually save all of creation and that counts pretty big with me.  
    I really don't like the fact that he's now de-powered, though.
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    TheCrowbar

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    #13  Edited By TheCrowbar
    @PowerHerc said:
    " Though it could have been better, I guess I did indeed enjoy "Chaos War" overall.   Hercules did actually save all of creation and that counts pretty big with me.  I really don't like the fact that he's now de-powered, though. "
    Depends how they do it though. If it's a modern "12 tasks" I think it would be awesome. Everyone loves a hero that beats the odds.
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    PowerHerc

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    #14  Edited By PowerHerc
    @TheCrowbar said:
    " @PowerHerc said:
    " Though it could have been better, I guess I did indeed enjoy "Chaos War" overall.   Hercules did actually save all of creation and that counts pretty big with me.  I really don't like the fact that he's now de-powered, though. "
    Depends how they do it though. If it's a modern "12 tasks" I think it would be awesome. Everyone loves a hero that beats the odds. "

    Herc already performed a modern 12 labors in 2005, but I guess it would be okay if Marvel had him achieve/accomplish some challenges to earn back his classic power-level then I would like it.

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