Where are Hercules' Kids?

#1 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

He gets it on with everyone and there grandmother, so why doesn't he have any children running around?

#2 Posted by biggkeem89 (1421 posts) - - Show Bio

The tend to die. There was a Deadpool Team Up, where Arcade and Nightmare tricks Hercules into fighting robots made to look like his dead children. Even in mythology, Herc's kids don't have long life expectancies

#3 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

^Yeah, but he gets it on with a lot of people currently. In his own book he got it on with like, one girl for each arc. So he should have some running around. And even in mythology, he had some immortal kids.

#4 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

None were immortal so, unless he has some unknown modern ones, they've all died.

#5 Posted by seekquaze (619 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: Hercules did have two children with Hebe who were in all likelihood immortal: Anicetus and Alexiares. They were worshipped as minor gods, but are not widely known in modern day. I think it would be easy enough to say they were a mix up of mythology. Either two powerful demigods who claimed to be sons of Hercules and were not or mistakenly identified as sons of Hercules. The myths tend to vary between accurate and inaccurate as needed.

As for other sons, I honestly would be surprised if both Hercules and Zeus do not have demigod sons running about. One Spider-Man story identified a demigod child of Loki born in modern times. In the MC2 reality Hercules has a demigod son named Argo the Almighty and in the Bob Layton future another one. The recent Thunderstrike mini had a villain who was apparently beyond normal human, but was not a mutant nor had experienced anything to make him superhuman. He assumed he was a demigod, but it was never proven. Ironically, all three previously mentioned has abandonment issues and hated their fathers.

The way I figure even if Hercules and Zeus use some form of protection (unlikely) or naturally have a low fertility rate they both tend to sleep around so much there are bound to be one or two kids running around. Both tend to be irresponsible enough I can see neither of them knowing uncless directly contacted. Zeus wouldn't care much unless the child was directly threatened by Hera or somehow of interest to him. Hercules I think would at least try to be a decent father figure. Could he actually stay around long enough or be a provider? I don't know.

#6 Posted by ntb1124 (949 posts) - - Show Bio

Random question for you Herc fans....Why are Hercs kids not immortal at all, or at least 1/4 Gods...Just wondering why they do not get more the the "God Gene" from Herc.

#7 Posted by seekquaze (619 posts) - - Show Bio

@ntb1124:

Godhood appears to be more then just genetics. There is a mystical element as well. That is partially why all the clones of Thor are not as powerful as he is or have his storm abilities. The god aspect appears to die out after a few generations. Otherwise, just about everyone from Greece would have some degree of superhuman abilities. In the Bob Layton mini Herc's grand kids each only had one of his powers. This is contrary to their father who overall had all of Herc's powers except to a lesser degree. Demigods are a mix of the powerful godly half and the weaker human half which usually takes the form of mortality. The demigod's children would only inherit a fourth at best. Down through the lines until the godly part is completely submerged beneath the human half.

Of course, there is more to genetics. Hercules as a demigod was as strong or stronger than Ares, the child of Zeus and Hera. Hercules lacked the more mystical abilities and immortality of Ares, but in many ways could be considered more powerful despite Ares having the more impressive linage.

#8 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze said:

@PowerHerc: Hercules did have two children with Hebe who were in all likelihood immortal: Anicetus and Alexiares. They were worshipped as minor gods, but are not widely known in modern day. I think it would be easy enough to say they were a mix up of mythology. Either two powerful demigods who claimed to be sons of Hercules and were not or mistakenly identified as sons of Hercules. The myths tend to vary between accurate and inaccurate as needed.

As for other sons, I honestly would be surprised if both Hercules and Zeus do not have demigod sons running about. One Spider-Man story identified a demigod child of Loki born in modern times. In the MC2 reality Hercules has a demigod son named Argo the Almighty and in the Bob Layton future another one. The recent Thunderstrike mini had a villain who was apparently beyond normal human, but was not a mutant nor had experienced anything to make him superhuman. He assumed he was a demigod, but it was never proven. Ironically, all three previously mentioned has abandonment issues and hated their fathers.

The way I figure even if Hercules and Zeus use some form of protection (unlikely) or naturally have a low fertility rate they both tend to sleep around so much there are bound to be one or two kids running around. Both tend to be irresponsible enough I can see neither of them knowing uncless directly contacted. Zeus wouldn't care much unless the child was directly threatened by Hera or somehow of interest to him. Hercules I think would at least try to be a decent father figure. Could he actually stay around long enough or be a provider? I don't know.

I knew about Herc's comic book sons and descendants but I was not aware of Anicetus and Alexiares (and I've read quite a lot about mythology). Thanks for the info.

I agree that whether Herc would stick around very long or not to be a father is and unknown, but I do think Herc would definitely provide for any offspring he might have once he knew of that offspring's existence. I feel this way based on how Herc was shown to be responsible for financing the home/hospital/camp for kids in the back-up feature of "Hercules: Fall of an Avenger."

#9 Posted by D3athstroke (4065 posts) - - Show Bio

He ate them

#10 Posted by PrinceIMC (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

Hercules is the son of the King of the Greek Gods, was breastfed by Hera before she realized who he was and he had to die to earn his immortality....so no his kids are not immortal.
 
And in the Hercules mini series the New Labors of Hercules a while back the guy who originally set him to do the 12 labors said he had all of Hercules' descendents hunted down and killed. That's why there aren't tons of Herc offspring around.

#11 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceIMC Some of his kids arent immortal, but he did have two immortal sons with Hebe after he died.

#12 Posted by seekquaze (619 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

I agree that whether Herc would stick around very long or not to be a father is and unknown, but I do think Herc would definitely provide for any offspring he might have once he knew of that offspring's existence. I feel this way based on how Herc was shown to be responsible for financing the home/hospital/camp for kids in the back-up feature of "Hercules: Fall of an Avenger."

You're welcome for the info. As for the father bit we know Hercules stuck around for a little bit for his first kids, but considering he is still haunted by what happened and his own wandering nature I could see him as the type to disappear for weeks at a time on some adventure or hire him self out as a strong man which would require him to go away for days or more at a time. I do agree that he would at least provide for them financially and would protect them from anything including Hera while he was around. If he were to go on an adventure only to return and find them dead I fully believe he would blame himself to some extent for not being there and then hunt down and enact brutal revenge on whomever is responsible for their deaths. Maybe not necessarily in that order. If Hera were to be behind it again I wonder if that would be the one thing that pushes Hercules too far in regards to her forcing Zeus to finally to some extent choose between them?

@D3athstroke said:

He ate them

I think your confusing Hercules with Kronos.

@PrinceIMC said:

And in the Hercules mini series the New Labors of Hercules a while back the guy who originally set him to do the 12 labors said he had all of Hercules' descendents hunted down and killed. That's why there aren't tons of Herc offspring around.

Eurystheus admitted he failed in his goal. He was killed by Hyllus, one of Hercules's sons before he could complete his goal. The Spartans claimed to be decedents of Hercules. I think one or two of Herc's sons also participated in the Trojan War. In fact I think the term Heracleidae is a catch all term for his numerous sons. So it is highly possible that Hercules's mortal lines have continued. It just all of his immediate sons from way back then have died because of being mortal.

#13 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: You're probably right; if Hera did indeed take action that lead to the death of more of Herc's kids, either directly or indirectly, I believe he'd probably go after her so relentlessly that Zeus would have to choose between the two of them. That would be an interesting, if tragic, storyline.

#14 Posted by D3athstroke (4065 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze:

It was a joke

I wrote it because Krónos was eating his children Zeus ate his unborn child (Athena) and i thought it would be funny

#15 Posted by seekquaze (619 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: I agree with you. It would be tragic yet interesting. I've always thought that Marvel's Hercules and Hera have something of a truce because of Zeus. Hera limits herself to trying to humiliate Hercules or cause him pain, but leaves his mortal loved once for the most part alone. In return Hercules does nothing to Hera for everything she has done to him and everyone else. Zeus in turn is not force to execute one of them. Once Zeus was removed the only thing keeping them from acting against each other was removed.

I do wonder who Zeus would choose? His favorite son, great hero, the one who has saved all of Olympus including Zeus himself time and again, and one of the few Olympians still widely admired in the mortal world if not to the immortal realms as well. Or his wife who he cheats on time and again, causes him almost constant headaches, is one reason he is not really admired among mortals and perhaps other gods, but whom is still technically his queen who he is honor bound to defend and to some degree may retain some degree of affection for. On one hand it looks like a no brainer, but on the other guessing what Zeus will do is almost impossible. Hercules is still hounded in Zeus's eyes by being illigetament and of mortal birth with mortal traits. Hera is his sister, queen, and full goddess. Either way it would not turn out well for him.

@D3athstroke: Apologizes, sometimes I have trouble telling when people are joking.

#16 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: Maybe this impossible situation is the source of Zeus' inconsistency; Hera or Hercules?

Considering what each has done to help or hinder my reign; To which one does Zeus owe his love, gratitude, loyalty?

Considering who us usually in the right in the conflicts between Hercules and Hera; Does Zeus administer proper objective/unbiased justice or does he keep letting Hera off the hook?

Maybe he tries to consider these things while dealing his own passions. Zeus does indeed have a conundrum on his hands and you make a sound observation; "either way it will not turn out well for him."

#17 Posted by seekquaze (619 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc:Once in a story about Dazzler the Asgardian Enchantress felt jealous of her abilities and that she was trying to upstage a goddess or something to that effect. One thing led to another and they had a singing contest judged by Odin and Asgard. Dazzler won and immediately Amora began plotting revenge. Odin knew that Amora would try something and forbid it on facing Odin's wrath. I have at times wondered what Zeus would have done in that situation where a mortal defeated a major goddess say Aphrodite. Would he actually rule in favor of a mortal ? Try and worm his way out of it? Sidestep the whole thing and punish the mortal for daring to challenge a goddess even if Aphrodite initiated the challenge? In myths the gods would often side with other gods even if the mortals were technically in the right since mortals dared compete with the gods and another god could make their immortal lives more miserable than a mortal who would be dead in a few decades.

I bring this up because it sounds like one of those cases even more extreme. Based on what we know Hercules would be the obvious since 9/10 he is in the right and he has defended Olympus time and again. On the other we do not know much about Hera's role on Olympus. I would think she would have to do something else with her time besides watching Zeus and constantly scheming revenge. What is she like when Zeus is not humiliating her with affairs? Often in other fiction she is portrayed as a more polite and reasonable, if cold and distant, authority figure who is what you would expect from a regal queen once you get her away from the affairs that rile her up. She is the goddess of families and motherhood. Does she help arbitrate disputes on Olympus? If Zeus is the stern authority figure is she the bit more merciful caring figure in the discussions? Does she run the place when he disappears? If that were brought to light it would explain why Zeus seems to keep her around, other than arguable needing a queen, and why such a choice between Hercules and Hera should be more difficult than one would think at first glance.

One thing Zeus did comment sort of on at his trial is skyfathers have to look at the big picture and long term. They often may do short term harm or even evil actions, but such actions are necessary for the greater good. Odin keeps the frost giants and trolls around because otherwise Asgard would tear itself apart without anyone to fight. Its been implied one reason he keeps Loki around was to make Thor a better hero. Pluto and Hela are kept around because someone has to run the underworld. We have had discussions on this board before about however bad Zeus maybe why he is necessary for Olympus. We know why Hercules is needed. I can't help feel Hera has some role on Olympus that is the reason she may be more important then first glance. Of course, no matter the reason eventually one does go to far there is a limit to how far certain people will tolerate such things. If Hera was the cause of another murder of Herc's family and Zeus did nothing I could see that being the final straw for Hercules for both of them.

#18 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: I see what you mean when you wonder what Hera may be like when no one else is around or when she's not riled up by Hercules, Zeus or one of his dalliances. Still, I don't see Zeus sharing power so I don't see him allowing her (or anyone else) to help rule, arbitrate or govern. His ego won't allow it and it probably wouldn't be a good idea in most cases anyway.

I agree to your idea likening Zeus allowing Hera (and presumably others, too) to plot and act against Hercules time and time again to why Odin allows Trolls, Giants and such to exist. Zeus, Odin and sky-fathers in general must see thing in a broader scope (the veritable 'big picture' if you will), thus they often make decisions that baffle people who're less experienced and less wise.

#19 Posted by seekquaze (619 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: The difficult thing about Zeus is the two extremes he lives by. Like you stated he often make decisions that baffle people who're less experienced and less wise. Yet at the same time most of his portrayals even in a crisis lean more toward someone who can only solve problems if it involves throwing a thunderbolt. Anything more complicated is beyond him and requires his children to solve the mess. This conflict is found both in myth and often in fiction. He knows his responsibilities as king and about a "noble ideal" he should try to live up to, but often fails at. Behavior he does not tolerate in others he has no problem doing himself. He reminds me something of King Lear. He wants the perks of being king without the baggage. At best he is like Henry VIII from that Showtime show the Tudors. A boy who in many ways never grew up.

I agree with you about power. At the same time given the egotistical nature of gods I could see Zeus letting the other gods having a say and at the end Zeus's decision being final. I also wouldn't put it past the likes of Hera, Athena and others others being able to manipulate him to get what they want. In myths Hera often got her way by knowing which buttons of Zeus to press. Thanks to his often short-sighted and impulsive nature both Pluto and the Dark Gods have been able to manipulate Zeus in the comics. Its usually only when something or someone forces him to reconsider a situation we see the wisdom he is supposed to have. Both fortunelty and unfortunelty in Hercules's case he is too straight forward to play the game which is why the two so often butt heads.

Though one thing I do wonder: Do you think Hermes either keeps track of or has some way of keeping tabs on the other Olympians? He is supposed to be one of the more intelligent of them and always seems to know where they are even in disguise. Given how dispersed the Olympians usually are including Zeus and Hercules it would make sense of Hermes has someway of finding them in an emergency. In that Herc #6.1 issue he sure found both Zeus and Herc fast.

#20 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: Zeus does indeed indulge himself in any and every way he wants, while chastising and/or punishing other Olympians for doing much less. He seems to live by the double standard. This reminds me of a phrase my Dad used to say when I'd question why he could do certain things but I could not. He'd tell me; "Do as I say, not as I do."

I think Zeus' general lack of wisdom, especially at the start of many situations, is a plot device used by writers to make some stories possible. If Zeus used the wisdom he actually has, many stories wouldn't even be possible to begin with because he'd stop/solve whatever problem/situation before it could really develop.

I hadn't considered whether Hermes kept track of Olympians or actually located them when he needed to. Good question. Either one is possible, I suppose, but I tend to think of Hermes using his godly speed (and maybe even some inborn ability to sense where other Olympians are) to locate them. Thinking of him as keeping tabs on all the other Olympians doesn't make sense to me or fit in with my image/understanding of the character.

#21 Posted by seekquaze (619 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: On Zeus' wisdom or lack of I think it is a case of both what you stated and again trying to rationalize the two extremes from myth of both Zeus the Wise King who arbitrates the Trojan War and Zeus the Fool who is tricked by Prometheus and Hera. Odin at times has had similar problems, but I do not think to such an extent. Another problem both suffer from (and their favorite sons) is their powers are often watered down to prevent them from just solving a problem in a story.

With Hermes, as the messenger I could see him having some sort of homing ability to know where messages need to be delivered. Otherwise even with his speed it would be impossible to always deliver the messages in a timely manner. I think the Huntsman had a similar power.

#22 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: Yes, I too think they water down the power of Zeus or Odin to permit certain stories.

I didn't mention it but when I considered your question about Hermes, I thought about the Huntsman of Zeus, too. I can see a homing ability for Hermes which, along with his speed, would enable him to locate and make contact with any Olympian at any time. But I still don't see Hermes keeping tabs on the comings, goings and whereabouts of his fellow gods.

#23 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there a small graphic novel where Hercules was in space and met up with one of his kids? I think his kid was an emperor as well and they fought but it was a long time ago.

#24 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

@gravitypress: You're not wrong. But that wasn't the mainstream Marvel Universe (616). It was an alternate universe a few hundred years in the future. The son of Hercules you refer to was Arimathes and the stories were first printed in '82, '84, '87 and '89. Recently (last year, I think) this alternate future timeline was revisited and Herc's three grandchildren were introduced.

I think the question this thread poses is; considering Hercules promiscuous nature and behavior throughout the past several millenia, shouldn't he have had children (probably a lot) and if so - where are and what has become of them?

#25 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: Yeah there should be a lot unless demigods are sterile or have a greater control over their reproductive system.

#26 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

@gravitypress: Yes, there really should be a lot.

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