Point of Hulk vs Hercules: When Titans Collide?

#1 Posted by seekquaze (617 posts) - - Show Bio

Whenever I read this issue I am left scratching my head at the point Athena was trying to make to Cho. Hulk nearly destroyed New York and later the planet in his grief and rage. He was after the wrong parties, yet so blinded by rage he did not think things through. Supposedly, no one died as a result of his invasion, but I think some other issues to show the Bugs killing humans. Maybe it was the Punisher ones? Anyway, Athena tells the story to Cho to show that Hercules can be a monster too. And that is where it looses me.

How was Hercules a monster in that story? He fights the Hulk, sides with the Hulk, then fights the giants. It seems the killing of the two giants the Hulk befriended was the "monster" part. I don't get it. Those giants had had a history of fighting Olympus. The two Hulk befriended had already been wounded by Ares. Maybe it was direct battle maybe it was a fight Ares started in a series of ongoing skirmishes we don't know. They did direct Hulk to attack Olympus. Hercules did not know that, but they were hardly innocent bystanders. They were near the battle supporting their fellow giants. So Hercules killed them and then wanted to celebrate. Hercules fights, sometimes kills, then celebrates. Cho would know that. Heck, Herc told him a version where he in a fit of rage killed his family and later blamed Hera. So Cho knew Hercules could do monstrous things. So I don't see the point Athena was trying to make. Can anyone help me out here or was it just a weak story?

#2 Edited by PowerHerc (85115 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Athena was trying to make the point that when push comes to shove - fun-loving, big-hearted, good ole boy Hercules could be far more vicious and brutal than Cho thought. Especially when ordered (and in this case goaded) by Zeus.

#3 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Athena was trying to make the point that when push comes so shove fun-loving, big-hearted, good ole boy Hercules could be far more vicious and brutal than Cho thought. Especially when ordered (and in this case goaded) by Zeus.

Alsoin support ,Herc was not being a monster when he killed his family, he was tricked!

#4 Posted by PowerHerc (85115 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

I think Athena was trying to make the point that when push comes so shove fun-loving, big-hearted, good ole boy Hercules could be far more vicious and brutal than Cho thought. Especially when ordered (and in this case goaded) by Zeus.

Alsoin support ,Herc was not being a monster when he killed his family, he was tricked!

That, too (even though it isn't mentioned in that comic. :D)

Thanks for the support.

#5 Posted by seekquaze (617 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

I think Athena was trying to make the point that when push comes to shove - fun-loving, big-hearted, good ole boy Hercules could be far more vicious and brutal than Cho thought. Especially when ordered (and in this case goaded) by Zeus.

That does seem to be what Athena was going for, but I still think she failed to make her point. She was trying to draw a parallel between what the Hulk did and Hercules. If she was going for a general comparision she would have been accurate. Yet she was going for what the Hulk did in WWH and this wasn't a good story for it. If Athena were to make such a direct comparison then Hercules sacking Troy would be a better comparision.

#6 Posted by PowerHerc (85115 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

I think Athena was trying to make the point that when push comes to shove - fun-loving, big-hearted, good ole boy Hercules could be far more vicious and brutal than Cho thought. Especially when ordered (and in this case goaded) by Zeus.

That does seem to be what Athena was going for, but I still think she failed to make her point. She was trying to draw a parallel between what the Hulk did and Hercules. If she was going for a general comparision she would have been accurate. Yet she was going for what the Hulk did in WWH and this wasn't a good story for it. If Athena were to make such a direct comparison then Hercules sacking Troy would be a better comparision.

I think you're right. In a general sense a parallel can be derived but it's far from apparent. From that perspective the story was weak.

What I enjoyed seeing was Hercules match-up against the raging Banner-less/Mindless Hulk from "Hulk" #300. That incarnation of the Hulk was practically unstoppable (only Thor was able to stand toe-to-toe with him) before he was exiled to the Crossroads. In this story Hercules shows that he, too, is physically strong and durable enough to stand toe-to-toe with the Hulk in arguably his strongest incarnation. Though the fight is inconclusive, Hercules is winning when it ends. I also enjoyed seeing Zeus summon/bring Hercules back to Olympus to fight the Hulk and seeing Hercules stand up to Demigorge. These things show Hercules level of power, his role as champion of Olympus and his courage. That's why, weak though it may be in some areas, I like it anyway.

#7 Posted by seekquaze (617 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

What I enjoyed seeing was Hercules match-up against the raging Banner-less/Mindless Hulk from "Hulk" #300. That incarnation of the Hulk was practically unstoppable (only Thor was able to stand toe-to-toe with him) before he was exiled to the Crossroads. In this story Hercules shows that he, too, is physically strong and durable enough to stand toe-to-toe with the Hulk in arguably his strongest incarnation. Though the fight is inconclusive, Hercules is winning when it ends. I also enjoyed seeing Zeus summon/bring Hercules back to Olympus to fight the Hulk and seeing Hercules stand up to Demigorge. These things show Hercules level of power, his role as champion of Olympus and his courage. That's why, weak though it may be in some areas, I like it anyway.

I agree. Though I feel for a one-shot that is supposed to be about Hulk vs Hercules the fight itself was too short. It did showcase Hercules's status and power, but I think it was also the start of Pak and Lente shortchanging the other gods. I can see Zeus summoning Hercules to defend Olympus because that is his job, but I did not like how the issue had the other Olympians including Zeus quaking in fear of the Hulk. Also, the appearance of the Demogorge and quick fight with the giants felt rushed. All in all by far from my favorite issue of Hercules with its only real redeeming aspect showcasing Herc's power and fighting skill.

#8 Posted by PowerHerc (85115 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

What I enjoyed seeing was Hercules match-up against the raging Banner-less/Mindless Hulk from "Hulk" #300. That incarnation of the Hulk was practically unstoppable (only Thor was able to stand toe-to-toe with him) before he was exiled to the Crossroads. In this story Hercules shows that he, too, is physically strong and durable enough to stand toe-to-toe with the Hulk in arguably his strongest incarnation. Though the fight is inconclusive, Hercules is winning when it ends. I also enjoyed seeing Zeus summon/bring Hercules back to Olympus to fight the Hulk and seeing Hercules stand up to Demigorge. These things show Hercules level of power, his role as champion of Olympus and his courage. That's why, weak though it may be in some areas, I like it anyway.

I agree. Though I feel for a one-shot that is supposed to be about Hulk vs Hercules the fight itself was too short. It did showcase Hercules's status and power, but I think it was also the start of Pak and Lente shortchanging the other gods. I can see Zeus summoning Hercules to defend Olympus because that is his job, but I did not like how the issue had the other Olympians including Zeus quaking in fear of the Hulk. Also, the appearance of the Demogorge and quick fight with the giants felt rushed. All in all by far from my favorite issue of Hercules with its only real redeeming aspect showcasing Herc's power and fighting skill.

The battle against the giants did feel rushed but I feel the appearance of Demogorge here was to establish that he and Hercules had already met prior to the then upcoming Secret Invasion. Zeus quaking in fear can be explained as him merely wanting to test Hercules, which is reasonable given their track record and Zeus' own words goading Hercules in this story. That and the fact that Zeus later gave the Hulk the beating of his life after the Chaos War. A beating proving Zeus had nothing to fear from the Hulk.

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