I was rereading the Herc origin issue the other day and its statement that Hercules was meant to be a savior of gods and men from giants and monsters that rebelled against the heavens.  The picture of this was him fighting the Hulk. On another board (I think during a debate about Hercules's strength compared to the Hulk from Hulk #127) another poster commented that they didn't think Hercules was in the Hulk's league and hadn't been for a long time.  Now, I know the truth of this is debatable, but it made me wonder.  For all of his strength and durability is Hercules in a way lacking to be the champion of Olympus?  Thor has a magic hammer that allows him to stand against cosmic threats.  Apollo has a nifty space chariot, flaming arrows, charm music, and other powers.  Gladiator of the Shi'ar is cosmic Superman.  Juggernaut is (sometimes) totally indestructible and unstoppable.  Hulk has his absurd healing factor and dynamic strength.  Compared to them, Hercules in some ways comes off as lacking even if he has his mace and lion skin.   That and sometimes too often he comes across as a complete idiot. 
 
What do you think?  Does Hercules need an upgrade of some kind?  Without turning this into a versus threat, can Hercules even stand a good chance of beating the Hulk anymore?  If Hulk is one of the menaces Hercules was born to defend Olympus against what does it say that he may not be able to do so anymore?  If Hercules lacks the overall capabilities to stand against the cosmic dangers that might threaten Olympus should Zeus be looking elsewhere?  I know Hercules is a great hero and defender who shouldn't be underestimated, but Zeus is to pick a champion to represent Olympus in the most trying of times should it be someone with a bit more sense and a better chance to stand against cosmic menaces?   Like Apollo.  Does that sound like a story line that would interest anyone?
 
Thoughts?
 
P. S. I know Hercules has saved Olympus hundreds of times, but one thing I would argue is he often benefits from enemies that are willing to get up close and personal so Hercules can hit them.  I am not doubting his strength.

@seekquaze:

Hercules, at his current levels, is probably too weak to perform his duty as champion of gods and men.

But before his fairly recent downgrade Hercules had the strength, durability and stamina greater than of on par with the Hulk, Thor, Gladiator, Juggernaut, etc.

Hercules also has figthing skills that surpass all of them as well as underrated levels of super-speed, healing, reflexes and agility (all due to his status as an Olympian God).

He has, unfortunately, been portrayed as an Idiot/buffoon sometimes. Fortunately, that has changed a bit recently and can still be improved upon.

As far as having the overall capabilities to fight cosmic dangers; no he doesn't really have them. In my opinion he should not have them. Giving Hercules cosmic/energy/magic manipulation powers (on a permanent basis) would ruin the character. He's history's original strongman (and Marvel has now recognized his mythological exploits, too), not a wizard, sky-father or any other such energy-wielder. He should remain a strongman and fighter, albeit one of the strongest and best.

Is Hercules still in the Hulk's class strength-wise? Can Hercules still give the Hulk a good fight, even having a chance of winning? Yes to both. The Hulk does have an absurd healing factor these days, but that is a relatively recent addition to his powerset. Hercules has one now, too, so who's to say he can't match the Hulk's? Hercules can go toe-to-toe with the Hulk, Thor, Gladiator, Juggernaut, and any other character on a physical level and has the potential to beat any of them.

Hercules, unlike Thor, doesn't have elemental powers or a weapon that allows him to wield and manipulate energy in any form. To address the lack of this kind of power, Zeus could allow Hercules to use various items/totems/objects of myth (kind of like he's doing in his present de-powered state) when the situation was dire enough and thus required it. Apollo as Olympus' champion just wouldn't cut it.

So: Does Hercules need an upgrade to be a better "Champion of Olympus?"

Maybe a bit.

Start by bringing him back to his classic/normal levels of physical strength, stamina, durability, speed, etc. and give him access to Olympian weapons & powers as needed to face the most urgent threats that may be beyond raw physical power. That would be enough and it wouldn't ruin the character.

@seekquaze: I wasn't clear about Hercules' healing factor. I used your description of the Hulk's healing factor (absurd) and then said Herc had one, too. What I meant was Herc, as is now common with many comic characters, now has a healing factor as well. I didn't mean to say it's absurd like the Hulk's, though Herc (full strength) is an immortal Olympian God and as has been stated to have a higher resistance to injury than any other Olympian except Zeus and possibly Neptune and Pluto as well as healing, when he is actually injured (which is rare when at full strength), quite rapidly. As an Olympian God, and especially as the Olympus's mightiest warrior, it makes sense for Hercules to have a very fast/high-level healing factor. It certainly makes more sense than the Hulk having one.

As for Apollo being Olympus' champion; He did fight Demogorge/Atum along with Thor, Indra, Tawa, Shango and Quetzcoatl about thirty years ago in a Thor Annual, but that's about it. Apollo is the God of Music, Poetry, the Sun, Light and Knowledge. As such, he could be used for many roles and purposes in the Marvel Universe. Hercules was conceived to defend and save the gods. His role is to be the champion of Olympus. Hercules is the fighter, brawler and hero to fill that role; not Apollo who would be more suited to other pruposes. That is how each of these character work (or would work) best, imo.

Maybe Hercules could use an extra ability or two. I think my previously mentioned idea of using Olympian weapons while at full strength, when the threat is dire enough or being able to temporarily use the powers/abilities of other Olympians might work. Another idea I've said in at least one other thread is giving Herc the ability to increase his strength, as needed, either consciously or subconsciously. That would at least assure that he would have the physical strength to match any opponent, any time. Marvel will never let that happen because it would match the Hulk's trump card of being able to increase his strength, and that would make him less unique and more beatable while simultaneously elevating a character (Hercules, whom is based on the hero/god of myth) who isn't exclusively a Marvel name like the Hulk.

In any case, I like your idea about having Herc being able to negate a foe's healing factor and/or mystical protection/enhancements. That would still tie into his physical powers without having him shooting energy beams and such, which we agree wouldn't be right for Hercules.

@seekquaze: Yes, the healing factors of the Hulk and Wolverine have definitely been amped to highly and overused (I don't even want to think about Deadpool's).

Comic writers tend to abuse/overuse many ideas, attirbutes and/or abilities to a point way beyond what was originally intended (the above mentioned healing factor is a good case in point), so I wouldn't trust that they wouldn't do the same if Herc were given the ability to temporarily negate the healing factor(s) of his opponents.

Savior of gods and men...Remember Chaos War?

@daak1212: That's right!

 
Herc does need an edge facing upper eschelon / cosmic types.    Since there is no longer a mortal hero wearing the Aegeis, I really think that Herc should obtain and wear it until his divine powers are fully restored.  The Aegeis also would allow him to deflect an energy attack, as well.  This would be cool in that it would fully protect him (and possibly others) and allow him to face some pretty high-level threats.
 
Even though Zeus is fully capable of restoring Herc to full power, I am MUCH more in favor of Herc personally going on a series of modern quests or trials to demonstrate his worth and regain his full powers  on his own (and possible even a couple of additional abilities).  One of the best things about Herc currently being mortal is that we can now see that Herc's willingness to face any threat is not bluster or bravado.  It is true courage and a strong sense of  being willing to do the right thng and also being willing to face nearly any odds to overcome a threat!
 
Since the latest issue shows Zeus and Oympus as fully restored, it is probably only a matter of time before a scenario arises that will allow and/or force Zeus to restore Herc's divine power levels.  Maybe Hebe serving her husband Herc continuous Ambrosia cocktails could have a similar effect (over a period of time).

@thestarguy said:

One of the best things about Herc currently being mortal is that we can now see that Herc's willingness to face any threat is not bluster or bravado. It is true courage and a strong sense of being willing to do the right thng and also being willing to face nearly any odds to overcome a threat!

You are absolutely right!

This is probably the single best thing about the currently de-powered Herc.

@thestarguy said:

One of the best things about Herc currently being mortal is that we can now see that Herc's willingness to face any threat is not bluster or bravado. It is true courage and a strong sense of being willing to do the right thng and also being willing to face nearly any odds to overcome a threat!

You are absolutely right!

This is probably the single best thing about the currently de-powered Herc.

@thestarguy said:

One of the best things about Herc currently being mortal is that we can now see that Herc's willingness to face any threat is not bluster or bravado. It is true courage and a strong sense of being willing to do the right thng and also being willing to face nearly any odds to overcome a threat!

You are absolutely right!

This is probably the single best thing about the currently de-powered Herc.

@Brit: The courage of Hercules is on full display in the current series. Even if his true physical strength is not.

hurc  needs upgrades  like asap, power to match any brute strength,Olympian arsenal, bolts, weaponry, summon a Calvary or gods anger  come on marv  beef him up!

Now that his monthly 'Herc" comic is scheduled to end at issue #10, maybe the de-powered Hercules experiment is over.

Maybe Hercules' full strength and power will be restored to it's rightful level. Maybe he will rejoin the Avengers, become a regular in 'Thor' again or some such thing.

Whatever happens; I hope Hercules gets his powers back so there is no question about his ability to perform his godly purpose/destiny.

Consider he has been depowered now... I think this is an unfair question.

He should have been more powerful than Thor, but Thor's powers and weapons give him an edge (Adamantine mace aside...).

Do I want Herc to be more powerful than the Hulk? No. More unstoppable than the Juggernaut? No. More sexy than she-hulk? No. She-Herc ain't gonna happen.

@labarith said:

Do I want Herc to be more sexy than she-hulk? No. She-Herc ain't gonna happen.

Me neither to the first part and I hope not to the second part.

i don't know why..but the name of this thread made me LOL for like two minutes straight 

@The Stegman: Maybe it's because the thought of Hercules being weak to preposterous and ridiculous.