Is Hercules depowered a good thing?

#1 Posted by seekquaze (607 posts) - - Show Bio

Hear me out for a moment. The last few years have not been good for gods. As a whole they have been portrayed as arrogant idiots hopelessly stuck in the mindset of when they ran the world. Nearly all of Thor's appearances for the past few months if not years are him getting beat up to show how tough Character X is supposed to be. Ares was a victim of this as well.

With Hercules depowered, that cannot happen as much. If Hercules loses then it is due to being mortal. Yeah, he may still be embarrassed at times like in a recent incident against Shaw, but as a whole writers are less likely to use him as a major player in guest appearances and crossovers. Is Hercules being depowered therefore a good thing since his spares him such embarrassment?

#2 Edited by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved Herc it was an awesome series that was too short, but that being said he doesn't seem to have a place outside a solo depowered. In Avengers Academy all he achieved was flashing some teenagers and getting beat up. So unless a new team that is more street level friendly pops up "That would be awesome" I want him to have his regular powers back.

#3 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

As a short storyline I can see the value of seeing Hercules rely on his skill rather than his raw power. Long term I really do not see it working, I have heard very little supporting this direction, and his buzz has dipped since the Incredible Hercules run

#4 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
No. Herc is known for his strength. He should have his powers.
#5 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio
@Brazen_Intellect said:

As a short storyline I can see the value of seeing Hercules rely on his skill rather than his raw power. Long term I really do not see it working, I have heard very little supporting this direction, and his buzz has dipped since the Incredible Hercules run

This is what I have never understood.  
Why is it necessary to take away his abilities in order to show his skills. Why can't he be written in more stories where power and skill have an equal amount of showings. 
Marvel does this way too much. They depower their characters so that we can see how they are "like normal people". Half the time however they are just writing the character worse than they were before. 
This company (which I do support most of the time) seems to be addicted to this concept of "take away their powers so we can see how they fight crime now". 
All it makes me think is ok....I'll just start picking up Batman books. (<---- which i do)
#6 Posted by PowerHerc (81637 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne said:

No. Herc is known for his strength. He should have his powers.

This. 100% this.

Being de-powered isn't saving Hercules from embarrassment. It is the embarrassment.

#7 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz said:

@Brazen_Intellect said:

As a short storyline I can see the value of seeing Hercules rely on his skill rather than his raw power. Long term I really do not see it working, I have heard very little supporting this direction, and his buzz has dipped since the Incredible Hercules run

This is what I have never understood. Why is it necessary to take away his abilities in order to show his skills. Why can't he be written in more stories where power and skill have an equal amount of showings. Marvel does this way too much. They depower their characters so that we can see how they are "like normal people". Half the time however they are just writing the character worse than they were before. This company (which I do support most of the time) seems to be addicted to this concept of "take away their powers so we can see how they fight crime now". All it makes me think is ok....I'll just start picking up Batman books. (<---- which i do)

When dealing with a character most writers tend to focus on the power and not the skill, this situation kinds of forces them to focus on one over the other. Should this be necessary, no, is it sadly in some cases, yes.

#8 Posted by marvelfanboy (509 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

No. Herc is known for his strength. He should have his powers.

This. 100% this.

Being de-powered isn't saving Hercules from embarrassment. It is the embarrassment.

#9 Posted by VicsAegis (10 posts) - - Show Bio

I enjoyed the HERC series, but I thought it would be a means to an end. Meaning that the stories would showcase more of Herc's skills and then in the end re-power him and as a character in the MU, he would now be looked at as a hero with Power and Skills! Instead, he is still depowered and most still refer to his power/strength only. And he's hardly seen in the MU.

He needs to be re-powered and brought back to prominence

#10 Posted by thestarguy (351 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

No. Herc is known for his strength. He should have his powers.

This. 100% this.

Being de-powered isn't saving Hercules from embarrassment. It is the embarrassment.

Agreed! Also, frankly speaking, of Marvel's "Big 3 " heroes (Thor, Hulk and Hercules), in many ways Hercules is the most grounded, most relate-able and most approachable! If I were actually in trouble on Marvel Earth, I personally would be far more inclined to go to Hercules for aid, rather than either Thor or Hulk.

#11 Edited by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

No, definitely not a good thing. Seeing him being smacked around by Sebastian Shaw really left a bad taste in my mouth.

#12 Posted by PowerHerc (81637 posts) - - Show Bio

@thestarguy said:

@PowerHerc said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

No. Herc is known for his strength. He should have his powers.

This. 100% this.

Being de-powered isn't saving Hercules from embarrassment. It is the embarrassment.

Agreed! Also, frankly speaking, of Marvel's "Big 3 " heroes (Thor, Hulk and Hercules), in many ways Hercules is the most grounded, most relate-able and most approachable! If I were actually in trouble on Marvel Earth, I personally would be far more inclined to go to Hercules for aid, rather than either Thor or Hulk.

When you refer to "Marvel's 'Big 3' heroes (Thor, Hulk and Hercules)" are you saying these are Marvel's three strongest superheroes?

#13 Posted by PowerHerc (81637 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85 said:

No, definitely not a good thing. Seeing him being smacked around by Sebastian Shaw really left a bad taste in my mouth.

I hated seeing that, too. Marvel editorial staff threw Hercules to the veritable wolves when they decided he would lose to Shaw.

#14 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17332 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: agreed, if he was going to loose , he should have been able to put up a batter fight, and the worst part was i never knew he was depowered at the time

Online
#15 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to go against the pack and say that Herc is right where he should be. When he was teamed up with Cho was his best run IMO, and now that he's with Avengers Academy he can mentor young heroes. However, if he did have his powers then the kids would never have to fight. By keeping him depowered, he'll be firmly in the mentor role, which is where he's best. They also have more opportunities this way to show him as a determined underdog, which would be good for the kids to see.

Don't get me wrong, I hope he gets his powers back eventually, but he's in a good spot if they use him well.

#16 Posted by joshmightbe (24683 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like this new depowering trend, its a shame that people today mostly lack the imagination to see the story telling possibilities with powerful characters. People now are all realism, realism, realism forgetting that for the most part reality is boring as hell. Not to mention the fact that none of the so called "realistic" heroes have any true realism about them, Punisher is pushing 60 and still fighting roomfuls of street thugs without breaking a sweat, Batman is a billionaire who has mastered all martial arts, is physically peak human and a genius that's good at everything, neither of those people could possibly truly exist in the real world.

#17 Posted by PowerHerc (81637 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

@PowerHerc: agreed, if he was going to loose , he should have been able to put up a batter fight, and the worst part was i never knew he was depowered at the time

Agreed. Even if Hercules did have to lose, the fight should have been a lot closer.

@fodigg said:

I'm going to go against the pack and say that Herc is right where he should be. When he was teamed up with Cho was his best run IMO, and now that he's with Avengers Academy he can mentor young heroes. However, if he did have his powers then the kids would never have to fight. By keeping him depowered, he'll be firmly in the mentor role, which is where he's best. They also have more opportunities this way to show him as a determined underdog, which would be good for the kids to see.

Don't get me wrong, I hope he gets his powers back eventually, but he's in a good spot if they use him well.

I, personally, would rather have Hercules get his powers back but I like the points you made about him possibly being a more effective instructor at Avengers Academy without them. Having him serve in that role makes sense and is much, much better than having him be a street-level hero fighting thugs and organized crime.

I am glad you want Hercules to get his powers back at some point, too.

#18 Posted by PowerHerc (81637 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

I don't like this new depowering trend, its a shame that people today mostly lack the imagination to see the story telling possibilities with powerful characters. People now are all realism, realism, realism forgetting that for the most part reality is boring as hell. Not to mention the fact that none of the so called "realistic" heroes have any true realism about them, Punisher is pushing 60 and still fighting roomfuls of street thugs without breaking a sweat, Batman is a billionaire who has mastered all martial arts, is physically peak human and a genius that's good at everything, neither of those people could possibly truly exist in the real world.

Agree 100%.

Readers who want to see highly skilled heroes without powers have many titles to choose from. This trend toward depowering hasn't improved one character that I can think of.

#19 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

@joshmightbe said:

I don't like this new depowering trend, its a shame that people today mostly lack the imagination to see the story telling possibilities with powerful characters. People now are all realism, realism, realism forgetting that for the most part reality is boring as hell. Not to mention the fact that none of the so called "realistic" heroes have any true realism about them, Punisher is pushing 60 and still fighting roomfuls of street thugs without breaking a sweat, Batman is a billionaire who has mastered all martial arts, is physically peak human and a genius that's good at everything, neither of those people could possibly truly exist in the real world.

Agree 100%.

Readers who want to see highly skilled heroes without powers have many titles to choose from. This trend toward depowering hasn't improved one character that I can think of.

The depowering thing is just a cop-out for lazy writers.

#20 Edited by Wolfrazer (6084 posts) - - Show Bio

Whose idea was it to make gods Superheroes anyway?...Moreover, why are writers getting rid or depowering them of what makes them iconic? In all truths, Hercules should be the strongest hero ever since that is just his thing always has been. Now Hulk yes his main thing is strength to, however he is not a god I don't see how Hulk's strength could be on par with the strength of someone who is a god. Thor, while a god he doesn't need strength....well ok yes he needs strength but not on the level of Hercules being that Thor has a bunch of different powers so it isn't exactly fair for Hercules if Thor is on par with strength especially if that is key with Hercules.   Hercules shouldn't even have any limit of his strength, his name is pretty much strength in meaning, he is a demi-god/god of strength....don't understand why writer's depowered him at all. 
 
I mean why is Hulk's strength limitless(coming from gamma radiation), but Hercules strength is(who is the god of strength) how does that make ANY sense at all? So gamma radiation is somehow more powerful then god powers?....WHAT?!
 
In short: If a hero just has one power, they really should be the best at using it because that is there only power.

#21 Posted by seekquaze (607 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer said:

Whose idea was it to make gods Superheroes anyway?...Moreover, why are writers getting rid or depowering them of what makes them iconic? In all truths, Hercules should be the strongest hero ever since that is just his thing always has been. Now Hulk yes his main thing is strength to, however he is not a god I don't see how Hulk's strength could be on par with the strength of someone who is a god. Thor, while a god he doesn't need strength....well ok yes he needs strength but not on the level of Hercules being that Thor has a bunch of different powers so it isn't exactly fair for Hercules if Thor is on par with strength especially if that is key with Hercules. Hercules shouldn't even have any limit of his strength, his name is pretty much strength in meaning, he is a demi-god/god of strength....don't understand why writer's depowered him at all. I mean why is Hulk's strength limitless(coming from gamma radiation), but Hercules strength is(who is the god of strength) how does that make ANY sense at all? So gamma radiation is somehow more powerful then god powers?....WHAT?! In short: If a hero just has one power, they really should be the best at using it because that is there only power.

1. It was Stan Lee's idea to make gods superheroes. He wanted someone more powerful than the Hulk originally.

2. Modern writers at marvel at least seem to have a problem adapting to the diverse power sets of gods. Incredible Hercules was terrible about this. The older stories seem to me at least to have less trouble.

3. In Marvel, gods are a specific type of lifeform powered by mystical energy with some other unique qualities thrown in. Gods have limits in in theory another being with enough power can match or exceed those limits. In this case Marvel is currently treating the Hulk as one of those beings.

4. Since when is life and godhood fair. Both Thor and Hercules served as the role of protector for their respective cultures. If anything the strength + other powers sets the two apart. Herc proves himself more by having to struggle more. It makes Hercules more down to Earth while Thor more cosmic.

5. I am of the mind that just about all things should have limits including Hercules, Thor, Silver Surfer, and the Hulk.

6. Going by what Marvel seems to show even if Herc's mystical energy is more efficient than gamma radiation the Hulk has access to a large enough supply that he can surpass Herc in strength.

7. I have to disagree with the very last bit. Strength and durability is the standard power set of many heroes and villains. So there is no way all can be the best at it.

#22 Edited by Wolfrazer (6084 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze said:

@Wolfrazer said:

Whose idea was it to make gods Superheroes anyway?...Moreover, why are writers getting rid or depowering them of what makes them iconic? In all truths, Hercules should be the strongest hero ever since that is just his thing always has been. Now Hulk yes his main thing is strength to, however he is not a god I don't see how Hulk's strength could be on par with the strength of someone who is a god. Thor, while a god he doesn't need strength....well ok yes he needs strength but not on the level of Hercules being that Thor has a bunch of different powers so it isn't exactly fair for Hercules if Thor is on par with strength especially if that is key with Hercules. Hercules shouldn't even have any limit of his strength, his name is pretty much strength in meaning, he is a demi-god/god of strength....don't understand why writer's depowered him at all. I mean why is Hulk's strength limitless(coming from gamma radiation), but Hercules strength is(who is the god of strength) how does that make ANY sense at all? So gamma radiation is somehow more powerful then god powers?....WHAT?! In short: If a hero just has one power, they really should be the best at using it because that is there only power.

1. It was Stan Lee's idea to make gods superheroes. He wanted someone more powerful than the Hulk originally.

2. Modern writers at marvel at least seem to have a problem adapting to the diverse power sets of gods. Incredible Hercules was terrible about this. The older stories seem to me at least to have less trouble.

3. In Marvel, gods are a specific type of lifeform powered by mystical energy with some other unique qualities thrown in. Gods have limits in in theory another being with enough power can match or exceed those limits. In this case Marvel is currently treating the Hulk as one of those beings.

4. Since when is life and godhood fair. Both Thor and Hercules served as the role of protector for their respective cultures. If anything the strength + other powers sets the two apart. Herc proves himself more by having to struggle more. It makes Hercules more down to Earth while Thor more cosmic.

5. I am of the mind that just about all things should have limits including Hercules, Thor, Silver Surfer, and the Hulk.

6. Going by what Marvel seems to show even if Herc's mystical energy is more efficient than gamma radiation the Hulk has access to a large enough supply that he can surpass Herc in strength.

7. I have to disagree with the very last bit. Strength and durability is the standard power set of many heroes and villains. So there is no way all can be the best at it.

Mystical Energy.......that makes me sad. 
 
Why writers are changing things I have no idea, but really it should be Hercules > Hulk. I still don't see the reason why, if Hercules was pretty much born with strength and a demi-god/god why he is weaker then some guy who had a lab accident and got dosed with gamma radiation. On top of that, it wouldn't really change anything....just swap the two characters around. Make Hulk the one with limited strength, and Hercules the one with limitless strength drawing on his power that is strength. Really the Marvel writers, are underplaying Hercules here and its not fair for him.
#23 Posted by thestarguy (351 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

@thestarguy said:

@PowerHerc said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

No. Herc is known for his strength. He should have his powers.

This. 100% this.

Being de-powered isn't saving Hercules from embarrassment. It is the embarrassment.

Agreed! Also, frankly speaking, of Marvel's "Big 3 " heroes (Thor, Hulk and Hercules), in many ways Hercules is the most grounded, most relate-able and most approachable! If I were actually in trouble on Marvel Earth, I personally would be far more inclined to go to Hercules for aid, rather than either Thor or Hulk.

When you refer to "Marvel's 'Big 3' heroes (Thor, Hulk and Hercules)" are you saying these are Marvel's three strongest superheroes?

I'm thinking so, at least on Marvel Earth. I saw your power list that you created once, and I really liked it!

#24 Posted by PowerHerc (81637 posts) - - Show Bio

@thestarguy said:

@PowerHerc said:

@thestarguy said:

@PowerHerc said:

@TheGoldenOne said:

No. Herc is known for his strength. He should have his powers.

This. 100% this.

Being de-powered isn't saving Hercules from embarrassment. It is the embarrassment.

Agreed! Also, frankly speaking, of Marvel's "Big 3 " heroes (Thor, Hulk and Hercules), in many ways Hercules is the most grounded, most relate-able and most approachable! If I were actually in trouble on Marvel Earth, I personally would be far more inclined to go to Hercules for aid, rather than either Thor or Hulk.

When you refer to "Marvel's 'Big 3' heroes (Thor, Hulk and Hercules)" are you saying these are Marvel's three strongest superheroes?

I'm thinking so, at least on Marvel Earth. I saw your power list that you created once, and I really liked it!

Thanks. :)

#25 Edited by SupahForeigner (227 posts) - - Show Bio

This whole idea of de-powering heroes being put forward by Marvel is slightly stupid. They seem to be contradicting themselves in the sense that they created most of their characters to be powerful (such as Thor for example) but then several years on they decide to de-power them? What is the point of creating a powerful character so then later on they can de-power them? Most comics (from DC and Marvel at least) are written around circumstances and environments which in reality we wouldn't come across, so why attempt to make the characters realistic when the circumstances in which they are in are far from reality themselves? This whole idea of de-powering a character is far more frustrating than entertaining, and this applies to Hercules' de-powering too.  
 
When a character such as Hercules, has so much history, so much heritage and so much potential in making really enjoyable titles and comics books; such as Hercules' adventures like his Twelve Labors, being with the Argonauts and so on. Why must they take all this away and ruin the character?.. Marvel is definitely good at one thing, and that is confusing everyone as to why they make most of their decisions. Rant over.

#26 Posted by PowerHerc (81637 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupahForeigner said:

This whole idea of de-powering a character is far more frustrating than entertaining, and this applies to Hercules' de-powering too.
When a character such as Hercules, has so much history, so much heritage and so much potential in making really enjoyable titles and comics books; such as Hercules' adventures like his Twelve Labors, being with the Argonauts and so on. Why must they take all this away and ruin the character?.. Marvel is definitely good at one thing, and that is confusing everyone as to why they make most of their decisions. Rant over.

Aye, verily!

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