No..you can't now.Privileges revoked." @Sovereign Vance said:
" @PowerHerc said:I can? Just like you? Really? Oh boy! "If you accept the rules you wouldn't accept it either and it wouldn't stand but you're allowed to accept what ever you want. "Oaky you've explained why you don't accept it. It did happen and it still stands. You only get to decide for yourself.
Hercules
Character » Hercules appears in 1961 issues.
One of six Olympian sons of Zeus, Hercules was born the savior of the Gods and mankind. Known as the Prince of Power, Hercules is one of the strongest beings in existence, an Olympian God and a modern superhero recognized throughout the world for his might. He has been a champion of mankind since ancient times and continues to defend the world in the modern age - most frequently as a member of the Avengers.
In what way is Hercules better than Thor?
"@PowerHerc said:No..you can't now.Privileges revoked. "" @Sovereign Vance said:
" @PowerHerc said:I can? Just like you? Really? Oh boy! "If you accept the rules you wouldn't accept it either and it wouldn't stand but you're allowed to accept what ever you want. "Oaky you've explained why you don't accept it. It did happen and it still stands. You only get to decide for yourself.
Fehgeddaboudit. Peace, bro.
@RightScar:
No... He said Hercules was slightly better in hand to hand in the that pic (wich is from Thor Blood Oath - can't remember wich issue). But there's another book where he mentions Hercules is also stronger (but I can't back this up because I forgot wich book). I'll try run most of my comics and find the issue. If I do, i'll post it here.
@PowerHerc
They are dead even in strength
as far as Durability goes Thor does have better feats but i would consider them equals
Stamina as far as how long they can go without tireing i would say equals again
Herules is a true immortal where Thor is not (but he should be cuase he's not a full asgardian)
Herc has superior hand to hand skills slightly
Herc (shomehow) gets more chicks then Thor
The thing about Hercules is he's mythological, even though there are contradictory stories they are all true. That's what separates him from Thor in my mind. Thor and Asgard exist on another plane. Hercules is powered by the collective subconscious of people, if they believe Hercules can do it he can.
" The thing about Hercules is he's mythological, even though there are contradictory stories they are all true. That's what separates him from Thor in my mind. Thor and Asgard exist on another plane. Hercules is powered by the collective subconscious of people, if they believe Hercules can do it he can. "That's not why he was able to lift the earth.
"You have some of the strongest points and they seem to be the key to the rest of the debate so I thought I would address them:
The ways in which Hercules is better than Thor:
1. Strength - Herc is stronger, but not by a lot.
2. Fighting skill - Herc is a better hand-to-hand fighter. Thor even admitted this.
3. Durablity & Stamina - Hercules is a true immortal; he never ages/weakens with the passage of time. Thor will/does.
4. Charm - Herc gets more chicks than anyone in the MU. Including Thor.
"
1. Could you please cite a story example or something as proof? All the direct comparisons I am aware of such as the two arm wrestling portrays them as equal. You have already covered the trouble with inconsistances in your debate with other posters. As for the sky, the way it was portrayed in Pak and Lente has led me to believe that is somewhat metaphysical. Atlas was released from his burden and the sky did not come tumbling down. I do not doubt it is a strength feat, but I don't see how it proofs Hercules is stronger than Thor. I admit in is highly possible Hercules has a few better strength feats than Thor, but I don't yet see how that is proof either. Thor tends to rely on his other powers when the going gets too tough so he has to rely less on his physical strength. The trouble with different writers is one day Herc or Thor could be cracking planets in half with one blow and the next they can barely lift a tank.
2. You are right about this. Hercules usually fights with only his fists compared to Thor who fights mostly with a weapon. It makes sense for Hercules to be a bit better at it. For me the difference is so minute that is doesn't matter that much. It gives Hercules a slight edge in h2h battles, but not enough that I see him winning every time in such a fight. I do admit if Hercules and Thor were to go at it h2h Herc probable takes at least 6/10. However, I would also say that if the two were fighting purely mace vs. club with no other powers than Thor would be better since he fights a lot more with his hammer.
3. Currently, I would say the two are equals here. You are right that there is a good chance Thor will age overtime and weaken if only a little. At the same time given Thor's unique heritage there is a chance he may not. IIRC, in one story the Time Twister, Immortus, or someone that could manipulate time tried to age Thor and it didn't work. Of course, that could be attributed that something about Thor's godly nature protected him. Part of the trouble is we rarely see old Asgardians and we don't know much about why Thor's forefathers are so powerful. Odin is an old man and still pretty much equal to Zeus thanks to his mystical powers. Buri, Thor's great-grandfather, either thanks to his mystical powers or his own innate strength is still about equal to Thor. We don't know whether or not Thor's own innate mystical power will grow to make him equal to Bor or Odin, if his inheritance of the Odinpower will make up for it, or what. The same can be said for Hercules as well. If any primary power increased comes from inheriting their father's powers I would have to go with Thor. We discussed on another thread the apparent advantages and disadvantages of Zeus's Thunderbolt vs. the Odinpower.
4. I give you this one. I don't think its a case of Thor couldn't get them if he wants them. Hercules one or twice has gotten jealous when he is the center of attention and Thor becomes the center of attention when he walks into a room. At the same time, while Thor is friendly and polite Hercules does come across as a bit more charming and approachable.
I tried to read all of the posts, but many of them didn't seem to relate much to these points so I skimmed them. If you already addressed any of these points and I missed it I apologize.
" He doesn't have the weight or pressure of being Marvel's Superman. It can allow for a different type of flexibility. The different facets of his personality can be exploited a lot more. I think its easier for Hercules to come across more genuine, and stoic than Thor, but that might just be and my perception of characters that smile a lot. I would say humor is an arena that Hercules draws on a lot more emphatically than Thor, Also people love rooting for the underdog, so being viewed and seen as not quite as *insert character* also has the typical effect of sort of grounding a character. Can make them more relatable as well. "Good points.
" @mavfan626 said:I just agree with you for now because I can't prove otherwise..The exacted same can he said about Herc (they can think on the feet) and that's what I was trying to get cross, there not tacticians. Maybe Dark Reign was a bad exampled but Herc is always beat his Bother Ares who is the God of War and is far better "tactical" then Thor. Amadeus Cho and Ajak ant one to decide who are tacticians and who are not. Anyway a fight between Herc and Thor isn't going to be decided by who more tactical then the other. Thor wouldn't beat current Sif with a sword and the fact that he looked like he wasn't even trying is just bad writing. "That's the thing.The exact thing can't be said about Herc.Hercules hasn't ever been shown to apply the same tactical knowledge and skill as Thor has.Thor has applied tactics against characters like Juggernaut,Absorbing Man,Namor etc. Characters that are actually in his strength class. Ares is class 70.He got owned h2h by She-Hulk before she was trained and they were in the same strength class.Ares is a far better tactician than Hercules...but I've seen him prep to try and beat Herc and still fail so what does beating him prove?Amadeus Cho is a genius..and it doesn't even take one to see whether someone does or does not apply skill and Ajak is a skilled fighter himself.But I guess a genius and skilled fighter that have had extensive time spent around the character wouldn't know what he can do....I know that fight between Herc and Thor wouldn't be decided by tactics.I'm simply saying that Hercules doesn't have any feats that make him better than Thor.Thor wouldn't beat Sif in a sword fight now because she has had a huge leap in skill but she wasn't unskilled in their fight.She had already had plenty of training thus this is a better showing because Thor had no actual advantage."
" strongest version of Hercules will beat the strongest version of Thor "Where are you getting this?
You have some of the strongest points and they seem to be the key to the rest of the debate so I thought I would address them:1. Could you please cite a story example or something as proof? All the direct comparisons I am aware of such as the two arm wrestling portrays them as equal. You have already covered the trouble with inconsistances in your debate with other posters. As for the sky, the way it was portrayed in Pak and Lente has led me to believe that is somewhat metaphysical. Atlas was released from his burden and the sky did not come tumbling down. I do not doubt it is a strength feat, but I don't see how it proofs Hercules is stronger than Thor. I admit in is highly possible Hercules has a few better strength feats than Thor, but I don't yet see how that is proof either. Thor tends to rely on his other powers when the going gets too tough so he has to rely less on his physical strength. The trouble with different writers is one day Herc or Thor could be cracking planets in half with one blow and the next they can barely lift a tank. 2. You are right about this. Hercules usually fights with only his fists compared to Thor who fights mostly with a weapon. It makes sense for Hercules to be a bit better at it. For me the difference is so minute that is doesn't matter that much. It gives Hercules a slight edge in h2h battles, but not enough that I see him winning every time in such a fight. I do admit if Hercules and Thor were to go at it h2h Herc probable takes at least 6/10. However, I would also say that if the two were fighting purely mace vs. club with no other powers than Thor would be better since he fights a lot more with his hammer.3. Currently, I would say the two are equals here. You are right that there is a good chance Thor will age overtime and weaken if only a little. At the same time given Thor's unique heritage there is a chance he may not. IIRC, in one story the Time Twister, Immortus, or someone that could manipulate time tried to age Thor and it didn't work. Of course, that could be attributed that something about Thor's godly nature protected him. Part of the trouble is we rarely see old Asgardians and we don't know much about why Thor's forefathers are so powerful. Odin is an old man and still pretty much equal to Zeus thanks to his mystical powers. Buri, Thor's great-grandfather, either thanks to his mystical powers or his own innate strength is still about equal to Thor. We don't know whether or not Thor's own innate mystical power will grow to make him equal to Bor or Odin, if his inheritance of the Odinpower will make up for it, or what. The same can be said for Hercules as well. If any primary power increased comes from inheriting their father's powers I would have to go with Thor. We discussed on another thread the apparent advantages and disadvantages of Zeus's Thunderbolt vs. the Odinpower.4. I give you this one. I don't think its a case of Thor couldn't get them if he wants them. Hercules one or twice has gotten jealous when he is the center of attention and Thor becomes the center of attention when he walks into a room. At the same time, while Thor is friendly and polite Hercules does come across as a bit more charming and approachable. I tried to read all of the posts, but many of them didn't seem to relate much to these points so I skimmed them. If you already addressed any of these points and I missed it I apologize. "Alot of these points were points I made yet I was told I was in denial for making them.
" @Sovereign Vance: he would mean chaos war hercules at his peak is stronger than Rune King thor "I know what he meant.I'm asking where he got the information....
Thor and Hercules have always been considered equal in terms of physical strength. No contest they have ever had (and they have had many) to resolve which one of them is actually stronger has ever given a clear answer, and even Marvel never gives you a clear answer. It was stated quite early on when they were doing an arm wressling match that they could sit there forever and not one of them will ever emerge as a clear winner. Marvel left it undecided.
Hercules has been demonstrated as a better hand to hand combatant than Thor on several occasions. Like Thor, he rarely has need to show it. There are not too many beings that are going to stay standing when he hits them. Thor has gone hand to hand with the Hulk and won. The best I have ever seen from Hercules fighting the Hulk (when he was actually trying to fight him, unlike WWH where he was trying to demonstrate friendship) was actually back in an old issue int he 90s, called something like Hulk/Hercules unleashed or something, where Herc is trying to talk the Hulk into helping him find the rest of the Avengers. Hulk declines and the two start to fight. Hercules holds his own, but is eventually overpowered and beaten (badly) by the Hulk until his father saves him. The reason I cite this is the best I've seen is because at the time, Hercules was at half strength and limited durability and no immortality, yet he held his own relying on pure skill until the Hulk finally just got pissed and was able to overpower him. Had Hercules displayed the same skill on a consistant basis, we would not really be questioning his hand to hand ability.
Durability and such, they are even. There has never been any type of feat which has showed one taking a hit better than the other, to include taking eachother's strikes or the Hulk's. who is on par with them (sorry, Hulk fanboys, but its true). The one time I've seen which might give some sort of edge to Thor is back in Thor Annual #2 when he fought Zeus for several months to roughly a standstill (though it could be argued that Zeus was not going all out since he was trying to get Thor to stop interferring in the Trojan War, not actually beat him, though he did express amazement that Thor was able to keep getting up). Hercules would never be able to do this because Zeus would be a little punk, snap his fingers and Herc would be at half power again and then proceed to get beat.
As for Charm, depends on who you are trying to attract. Easy women always go for the loud men. Thor tends to go after 'worthy' women (except the Enchantress, but hey, everyone has their moments).
@joshmightbe: I didn't say faith, I guess I shouldn't have said believe I probably should have said think. I didn't mean to say that Thor isn't mythological, it is just that Hercules seems more mythological and he revels in it. I hearing several times that Thor and the Asgardians are more like long lived extra-dimensional beings that were worshipped as Gods. Meanwhile Olympians are immortal Gods descended from the Elder God Gaea.
In Incredible Herc #115 Amadeus pointed out the innacuracies in Hercules' history:
Amadeus: "Waaaaait a minute. I thought you started on the Labors in the first place atone for killing Megara and your sons. Now you're telling me the twelfth one came before they died? That doesn't make any..."
Hercules: "Shut up, you're not listening. This is a myth I'm telling you. Myths aren't some collection of dates and biographies you bicker over like a clerk with his ledger. Myths are stories that only have the meaning you give to them so listen."
And that's his own history he's talking about.Aas a mythological character since there are contradictory stories his history has changed dependent on the lesson he needs to teach at the time. For Thor and the Asgardians they've tried to make things more cohesive ignoring parts that might contradict. Avalon the home of the Celtic Gods is dependent on the collective subconscious of the people of the United Kingdom, it doesn't require their belief that it exists, it is just represents how its people think of their shared history and mythology.
In Incredible Hercules #132 he talks about the Axis Mundi the center of the world where all points meet. Where the heavens meet the Earth and the Earth touches the Underworld:
Hercules: "Athena tells me the Axis Mundi appears in as many forms as there are people on Earth. It is the totem pole, the maypole, the pagoda, the banyan and the Bodhi Tree, the golden branches in the crowns of silla...and not long ago I battled the mad Amazon Artume on this very spot, she who tried to control the Axis in the form of the Titan Atlas."
The Titan Atlas (the predecesors of the Olympians) was the center of the world but his form was dependent on the consciousness of the viewer. Malekith was sending Hercules and Kid Zeus to Svartalheim via Yggdrasil, the world tree the Norse form of the Axis. But they'd have to be aware of the dragon Niddhogg. But Herc has other ideas.
Hercules: "I think not, brave one! That's exactly what the drow will expect. Norse aren't the only ones with a world tree. We Greeks have been growing this olive for a couple of millenia. And, being considerably less gloomy than our Nordic cousins....we populated it with pretty Dryads and funny little goblins instead of dragons."
He then proceeds to climb down the tree to Svartalheim. What's my point? It seems to me that Hercules' history, his surroundings, what he's capable of and his very existence are all mutable. Thor has never shown that type of adaptability. Thor is a God trying to fit in to a realistic world (albeit a comic world) while Hercules makes the innacuracies and contradictions of mythology work for him.
As for lifting the Earth's it's a misconception that Atlas held up the Earth (due to a guy collecting some maps, calling it an Atlas and putting a picture of Atlas holding the Earth on the cover) but people thought it was true so it was said that Hercules did it so in the comics Hercules actually did do it. Now that more and more people know the truth that Atlas holds up the sky it has been adapted that Hercules has held up the sky as well. But it doesn't mean that he now didn't hold up the Earth because plenty of people still think Atlas holds it and it was shown in a comic that he did it unless it gets retconned. People shouldn't be able to apply logic that 'how could Herc have held up the Earth if there are things on Earth he can't lift' because even in the Marvel Universe he's mythological while Thor is more thought of as extra-dimensional.
@PrinceIMC:
Marvel has already implied that all the present gods of the Marvel Universe have a connection to Gaea. She is the mother of all gods, because she gave birth to creatures (Titans, Giants and other creatures) that gave birth to other beings, that then gave birth to the gods. So we migth actually say that Odin had sex with his great-great....-great grandmother. So Gaea is actually mother and great grandmother to Thor.
But all this is natural in the "gods world and point of view".
So, Thor has a greater connection to Gaea than any ohter Asgardians (including Odin himself) but he is still mortal. Odin stated that many times saying ALL Asgardians are not imortal only age at a very slow rate.
"I don't know the origins of the Norse deities but Marvel's attempt at connecting them with Gaea is somewhat convoluted.@PrinceIMC:
Marvel has already implied that all the present gods of the Marvel Universe have a connection to Gaea. She is the mother of all gods, because she gave birth to creatures (Titans, Giants and other creatures) that gave birth to other beings, that then gave birth to the gods. So we migth actually say that Odin had sex with his great-great....-great grandmother. So Gaea is actually mother and great grandmother to Thor.But all this is natural in the "gods world and point of view".
So, Thor has a greater connection to Gaea than any ohter Asgardians (including Odin himself) but he is still mortal. Odin stated that many times saying ALL Asgardians are not imortal only age at a very slow rate.
"
@blur99:
Actually, in the Myths of the Norse deities (prose Eda or Edna), Gaea IS the mother of Thor (though she goes by another name - can't remember wich). Se did mate with Odin. That's why Thor is the strongest Norse god (he has the strength of the Earth itself).
But Marvel changed a lot the story of Thor and his apperance. Thor was not blonde but had red-hair. He was not tall but rather short and had a long beard. Though the strongest of the Norse gods, Thor couldn't lift his hammer like he does in Marvel comics. He also needed his belt to double his strength and also needed some special gloves (some myths say these gloves also gave him a certain amount of strentg while others say he wore them because they protected him from Mjolnir's thunders). In the Myths no one (even with the aid of those artifacts) could lift Mjolnir, because the material of wich Mjolnir was made was very very heavy, not because of some incantation Odin put on ot.
Note: The Warriors Three do not exist in the Myths. Their are just plot devices from Marvel.
"I actually read myths.@blur99:
Actually, in the Myths of the Norse deities (prose Eda or Edna), Gaea IS the mother of Thor (though she goes by another name - can't remember wich). Se did mate with Odin. That's why Thor is the strongest Norse god (he has the strength of the Earth itself).But Marvel changed a lot the story of Thor and his apperance. Thor was not blonde but had red-hair. He was not tall but rather short and had a long beard. Though the strongest of the Norse gods, Thor couldn't lift his hammer like he does in Marvel comics. He also needed his belt to double his strength and also needed some special gloves (some myths say these gloves also gave him a certain amount of strentg while others say he wore them because they protected him from Mjolnir's thunders). In the Myths no one (even with the aid of those artifacts) could lift Mjolnir, because the material of wich Mjolnir was made was very very heavy, not because of some incantation Odin put on ot.
Note: The Warriors Three do not exist in the Myths. Their are just plot devices from Marvel.
"
@blur99:
That's it. Her name in the Norse Myths. But Jord is the Norse representaion of Earth. she is considered the Godess of Earth, and so Marvel related her with Gaea from the Greek Myths.
Almost every major ancient multi-god religion has a mother spirit. usually being that spirit, a representaion of the Earth itself and so, a mother goddess.
" @PowerHerc said:I agree with this^ This is everything i was about to post."You have some of the strongest points and they seem to be the key to the rest of the debate so I thought I would address them:1. Could you please cite a story example or something as proof? All the direct comparisons I am aware of such as the two arm wrestling portrays them as equal. You have already covered the trouble with inconsistances in your debate with other posters. As for the sky, the way it was portrayed in Pak and Lente has led me to believe that is somewhat metaphysical. Atlas was released from his burden and the sky did not come tumbling down. I do not doubt it is a strength feat, but I don't see how it proofs Hercules is stronger than Thor. I admit in is highly possible Hercules has a few better strength feats than Thor, but I don't yet see how that is proof either. Thor tends to rely on his other powers when the going gets too tough so he has to rely less on his physical strength. The trouble with different writers is one day Herc or Thor could be cracking planets in half with one blow and the next they can barely lift a tank. 2. You are right about this. Hercules usually fights with only his fists compared to Thor who fights mostly with a weapon. It makes sense for Hercules to be a bit better at it. For me the difference is so minute that is doesn't matter that much. It gives Hercules a slight edge in h2h battles, but not enough that I see him winning every time in such a fight. I do admit if Hercules and Thor were to go at it h2h Herc probable takes at least 6/10. However, I would also say that if the two were fighting purely mace vs. club with no other powers than Thor would be better since he fights a lot more with his hammer.3. Currently, I would say the two are equals here. You are right that there is a good chance Thor will age overtime and weaken if only a little. At the same time given Thor's unique heritage there is a chance he may not. IIRC, in one story the Time Twister, Immortus, or someone that could manipulate time tried to age Thor and it didn't work. Of course, that could be attributed that something about Thor's godly nature protected him. Part of the trouble is we rarely see old Asgardians and we don't know much about why Thor's forefathers are so powerful. Odin is an old man and still pretty much equal to Zeus thanks to his mystical powers. Buri, Thor's great-grandfather, either thanks to his mystical powers or his own innate strength is still about equal to Thor. We don't know whether or not Thor's own innate mystical power will grow to make him equal to Bor or Odin, if his inheritance of the Odinpower will make up for it, or what. The same can be said for Hercules as well. If any primary power increased comes from inheriting their father's powers I would have to go with Thor. We discussed on another thread the apparent advantages and disadvantages of Zeus's Thunderbolt vs. the Odinpower.4. I give you this one. I don't think its a case of Thor couldn't get them if he wants them. Hercules one or twice has gotten jealous when he is the center of attention and Thor becomes the center of attention when he walks into a room. At the same time, while Thor is friendly and polite Hercules does come across as a bit more charming and approachable. I tried to read all of the posts, but many of them didn't seem to relate much to these points so I skimmed them. If you already addressed any of these points and I missed it I apologize. "
The ways in which Hercules is better than Thor:
1. Strength - Herc is stronger, but not by a lot.
2. Fighting skill - Herc is a better hand-to-hand fighter. Thor even admitted this.
3. Durablity & Stamina - Hercules is a true immortal; he never ages/weakens with the passage of time. Thor will/does.
4. Charm - Herc gets more chicks than anyone in the MU. Including Thor.
"
@PowerHerc:
i will agree with you on the fact that herc is a better hand to hand fighter than thor plus the fact that he is a true inmortal and wont tyre as easily as thor.
but in tearms of strength thor is slighty stronger than herc because he is half elder god.plus herc is just funny as f~~k not as funny as deadpool but still kinda funny.
Nothing in any of Herc's feats suggest that his endurance is greater than Thor's. On the contrary Thor has fought for months with no rest (once against Zeus, to which Hulk lost in a matter of minutes I might add). Herc has never demonstrated that feat to my knowledge (though I believe him capable of doing so). They both have even shown getting drunk at the same time. Same with Strength, Thor has never demonstrated having greater strength than Herc, they have always shown themselves to be equal. Essentially, if Thor did not have have Mjolnir, his weather control powers or his recently demonstrated terrakinesis, he and Herc would be equals in pretty much everything except hand to hand combat, which Herc would take. In the world of the physical, Herc would win, only just, due to his better hand to hand combat, which makes sense considering the Greeks actually practiced what could be considered martial arts which the Norse relied on the fact that they were generally the largest, strongest people in all of Europe to get them through.
It is Thor's other powers that put him over the top, the fact that, when it comes to raw destructive capacity, very few beings rival him. When he is on a roll (and he has a writer that knows what the hell he is doing), he is on a roll and nothing short of a Skyfather or Cosmic entity is going to slow him down.
@seekquaze:
I've probably read every story where these two have fought each other or arm wrestled. They appear to be even in practically every case.
The reason I give Hercules a slight strength advantage is due to the Official Marvel Handbooks. Each edition has quantified the strength of Hercules and Thor.
These are Marvel's official strength ratings for Hercules and Thor.
Here are the numbers:
Rankings based on Maximum lifts:
- Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe (1983): Hercules -100 Tons.Thor 95 Tons. Advantage: Hercules
- Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition (1985): Hercules - Class 100 (100+ Tons). Thor - Class 100 (100+ Tons). Advantage: Even
- Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Master Edition (1991): Hercules -Incalculable (100+ Tons). Thor: Class 100 (90-100 Tons). Advantage: Hercules
- Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Avengers 2004: Hercules - Level 7. Thor - (100+Tons) Level 7 (100+ Tons). Advantage: Even
- Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: A to Z (2008): Hercules - Level 7 (100+ Tons). Thor - Level 7 (100+Tons) Advantage: Even
Marvel has consistently shown, in there stories, Hercules and Thor to be quite evenly matched in strength. The same is true in the Handbooks, too. They are ranked as even in strength in three of five different Handbook editions. However, in the other two Handbooks (1983 and 1991), Hercules is ranked higher than Thor. Thor is never ranked higher than Hercules.
These are Marvel characters. Because these are Marvel's official stats for them, I consider them relevant and use them as the tie-breaker regarding the very evenly matched Hercules and Thor.
Sure they are.
Thor's only stronger wearing his belt of Strength. it's been said in comics and in Marvel Character Encyclopedias.
But the fact is they're comic book characters and they will be better or worse depending on the needs of the story or the axe the writer in question wants to grind.
"
@Sovereign Vance: Sure they are. Thor's only stronger wearing his belt of Strength. it's been said in comics and in Marvel Character Encyclopedias. But the fact is they're comic book characters and they will be better or worse depending on the needs of the story or the axe the writer in question wants to grind.
"
I can't argue against this.
I understand your point about handbooks, but when it comes to stats at least I generally take them something of a yard stick especially when it comes to strength. IIRC, in some of the handbooks the fighting ability of Thor and Hercules is rated only about a 4, which is "experienced." I think we can agree both of them should at the very least be a "5" or "trained in one fighting style." This is something I think the two of us will just have to agree to disagree about. Even if Hercules does have a slight strength advantage I would not think it great enough to guarantee victory in battle with Thor
.@Enforcer:
I can agree with this.
Marvel needs to up their strength classes. SOO many people fall into 100+ it's not even funny. you've got people like abomination and iron man in the same strength class as silver surfer or gladiator. it totally misrepresents everyones strength levels.
"
@PowerHerc:
I understand your point about handbooks, but when it comes to stats at least I generally take them something of a yard stick especially when it comes to strength. IIRC, in some of the handbooks the fighting ability of Thor and Hercules is rated only about a 4, which is "experienced." I think we can agree both of them should at the very least be a "5" or "trained in one fighting style." This is something I think the two of us will just have to agree to disagree about. Even if Hercules does have a slight strength advantage I would not think it great enough to guarantee victory in battle with Thor
. @Enforcer: I can agree with this.
"
I compare the strength of Hercules and Thor using the Handbooks because they have defined the strength of both these characters in each edition and because they are Marvel's official position on their characters abilities.
The first three editions didn't rate/rank characters fighting skill in anyway that invited defined comparison, and though the last two did; I agree both characters are very underrated in fighting skill. Despite this underrating, I can agree that Herc and Thor should be at the same level of skill, which they are. They are both rated "4" in fighting skills, though I think they should both be "6." I would have a real problem with this if either was rated a notch or two above the other.
Though I believe Hercules is slightly stronger than Thor, I agree with you; Herc's slight strength advantage doesn't guarantee victory in battle against Thor. The fact is, Herc's slight strength advantage is more than made up for by Thor with his elemental powers and his weapon's energy controlling/projecting abilities. Because of these extra powers, Thor actually has the advantage over Herc in anything other than strict hand-to-hand combat, arm-wrestling and/or any other pure-strength contest.
"
Marvel needs to up their strength classes. SOO many people fall into 100+ it's not even funny. you've got people like abomination and iron man in the same strength class as silver surfer or gladiator. it totally misrepresents everyones strength levels.
"
100% agreement !
Actually he is, Herc is physically stronger (Pure lifting strength) and has more stamina than Thor and he is a better fighter. (pure H2H) Think about it, Thor has the memories and experience of about a thousand years whereas not only does Herc have over three thousand years of experience he was already once of Earth's greatest combatants back then, he is even credited with the creation of pankration from which all modern wrestling and mixed combat styles trace their origin. Hercules should be one of the greats of the MU but Marvel rarely uses him at his full potential.
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@RightScar: Actually he is, Herc is physically stronger (Pure lifting strength) and has more stamina than Thor and he is a better fighter. (pure H2H) Think about it, Thor has the memories and experience of about a thousand years whereas not only does Herc have over three thousand years of experience he was already once of Earth's greatest combatants back then, he is even credited with the creation of pankration from which all modern wrestling and mixed combat styles trace their origin. Hercules should be one of the greats of the MU but Marvel rarely uses him at his full potential.
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Yes to all your points.
Herc is stronger, has more stamina, has more experience and is a better fighter (he is the co-inventor of Pankration).
I particularly agree with your statement that Hercules should be one of the greats of the Marvel Universe but Marvel has never used him to his fullest potential. Hell, they've only realy scratched the surface over the last few years in "Incredible Hercules" and "Chaos War." Maybe the new "Herc" comic will give him some more prominence.
Thor is incredibly powerful, i think mjolnir increases his strength, he can also use rune magic to increase his strength, not to mention his belt of strength, or warrior rage. Thor is also the son of Gaea, thats got to count for something. I don't know much about Marvel's Hercules, i could just never seem to like him (probably because i first read about DC's Hercules, whos not a very nice person to say the least) In summary i think Thor would beat Hercules in a Strength contest.
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