Hercules's Powers?

#1 Posted by Kid_Omega_Prime (1252 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok I have a question. I got a new comic of the Incregible Hulk titled God Smash part 1. Anyway there is part where bruce banner talks to Hercules and Bruce asks him to heal his friends and Hercules says I can because I no longer posses the powers of the all father. When did this happen? Plus Hercules also said im not a strong as I use to be. So when did Hercules lose his strangth? Please help.

#2 Posted by ThanosIsMad (2222 posts) - - Show Bio

Chaos War.

#3 Edited by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kid_Omega_Prime:
Hercules lost his all his power, including his strength, at the end of the Chaos War when he used it up repairing the entire multiverse.  
 
He's de-powered now and has a new comic coming this spring featuring him battling evil-doers without his incalcuable strength, stamina and durability.   
He'll have to rely on his fighting skills, weapon mastery and vast experience for now. 
#4 Posted by Kid_Omega_Prime (1252 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok so Herc has been de-powered. So Dose that mean he lost all of his powers or was he just weakend? Let me put it this way I know he can't lift the World Serpent like Thor. But can he lift like a car at least? And what about his immortality dose he still have that?
#5 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kid_Omega_Prime said:
"Ok so Herc has been de-powered. So Dose that mean he lost all of his powers or was he just weakend? Let me put it this way I know he can't lift the World Serpent like Thor. But can he lift like a car at least? And what about his immortality dose he still have that? "

Well it remains to be seen, but from what Herc told the Hulk in "Hulk" # 621 he's lost all he powers.   
Every preview and press release that I've seen about the subject has stated that Hercules is de-powered with one even showing him fighting a gang of thugs on a train sans powers.
#6 Posted by SC (13110 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah he seems pretty much baseline human.  
 
Not something I am happy about, but I guess if they are going to depower him, might as well do it all the way. If he can't throw a building, then being able to lift only a car I can't find appealing. Against the odds type storyline sounds okay. (in this context) Still, there are lots of unused demon and god characters Hercules could show his skill against and be relatively vulnerable to... 

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#7 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC:
Yeah, until  he gets his full power back, I'd rather him be human-level, too.   
 
Having low-level super-strength after being one of the strongest beings in the Marvel Universe would be pointless while at the same time ruining any interest in having him battle street-level villains.
#8 Posted by mimic12 (548 posts) - - Show Bio

Man this stinks Marvel always gives me the shaft when it comes to my favorite heroes. First they kill X-Man and Mimic then they brake up Spider-Man and Mary Jane they make Cyclops cheat on Jean With Emma then they kill the Human Torch now they De-Power Herc to human level. Whats next?

#9 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

He actually mentioned "I'm not as strong as I used to be" and then punches Banner a good distance away to allow him to turn into Hulk. There's some strength there, or Banner is just a lightweight.

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#10 Posted by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: 
Its both.  Banner is a lightweight.  Hercules is also in top physical condition for a mortal.  So his strength level is still stronger than a lot of the population, but no longer superhuman.
#11 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@mimic12 said:
"Man this stinks Marvel always gives me the shaft when it comes to my favorite heroes. First they kill X-Man and Mimic then they brake up Spider-Man and Mary Jane they make Cyclops cheat on Jean With Emma then they kill the Human Torch now they De-Power Herc to human level. Whats next? "

Marvel is chronically messing up some of their best characters.   
I think they believe this makes their company seem edgy and unpredictable, but I think it mostly angers and/or frustrates fans.
#12 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze: Hmm, I agree, it just seemed a little much. If we're saying top physical condition for a mortal, would that put him at Steve's level?
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#13 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said:
" @seekquaze: Hmm, I agree, it just seemed a little much. If we're saying top physical condition for a mortal, would that put him at Steve's level? "

I agree.   
If Hercules is truly de-powered, how did he knock Banner flying that far?  It is a bit much.  If he's de-powered to top human physical condition then he should be on Steve's level.
#14 Posted by The New L (78 posts) - - Show Bio

Who is this steve? Steve Aston, Steve goodenburg, Steve urcule who is Steve?
#15 Posted by Z3RO180 (6549 posts) - - Show Bio
@mimic12: 
 
Thor gets get violated by a mega powed lobster...yea a lobster.
#16 Posted by Z3RO180 (6549 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc: 
 
If u look at one of the fear itself posters you will see herc iron man and the grey gargolye going for a hammer that looks a lot like thors mjolnier but its not thors hammer. 
 
maybe in this new event marvel has ined up herc will get his powers back...but if he does i dout he will get his sky-father powers powers back he might just get his post choas war powers back. 
 
P.S. is chaos war any good cause i was going to start reading it?
#17 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@The New L: 
The aforementioned 'Steve' is Steve Rogers, formerly known as (and hopefully soon to again be); Captain America. 
 
@Z3RO180:

Yeah, can see it isn't Thor's hammer. 
I don't want Herc to get his sky-father powers back.  I want him at his pre-Chaos War level. 
   
In my opinion "Chaos War" was good overall, but it could have showcased Herc's power more.
#18 Posted by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:
Yeah, can see it isn't Thor's hammer. I don't want Herc to get his sky-father powers back.  I want him at his pre-Chaos War level.    In my opinion "Chaos War" was good overall, but it could have showcased Herc's power more. "
You lost me.  Chaos War was almost nothing but Hercules showcasing his powers.  Pak and Lente even specified in an interview they made Hercules the most powerful god ever.  His power was more on par with an abstract being rather than any god or even skyfather in the traditional sense.  
 
@Z3RO180: 
Chaos War to me was a huge disappointment.  Some of my older posts on who liked Chaos War go into more detail.  But it felt mainly like three issues of set-up with very little plot and just traded water for most of the story.  The God Squad was pretty much pointless and could  have been anyone.  The vast armies of gods on both sides had no purpose or role.  Mikaboshi was so overpowering that it was boring.  Grandiose statement on grandiose statement that caused the story to fall apart under its own grandioseness.  Plot holes creeped up every issue.  Don't get me started on Athena.  Worst of all was Hercules.  Yes, it showed him as very, very powerful, but also a complete moron with none of the world-wisdom he had had before.  He spends three issues trying to just punch Mikaboshi and failing.  His hyper-smart best friend gives up on him due to his refusal to try something else when it is clear punching is not working.  His own omniscience tells him punching Mikaboshi is not going to work.    Finally, it takes a dying Mother Earth to tell him it is not going to work before he finally gets it through his skull.  He supposedly gets some sort of enlightenment which turns out to be another power-up.  So how does he win?   By punching Mikaboshi.
#19 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7849 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty interesting things Marvel has done with ole' Herc. Definately have to check out his new series.

#20 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:
" He's de-powered now and has a new comic coming this spring featuring him battling evil-doers without his incalcuable strength, stamina and durability.   He'll have to rely on his fighting skills, weapon mastery and vast experience for now.  "
Dang, that sounds pretty badass.
#21 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
" @PowerHerc said:
" He's de-powered now and has a new comic coming this spring featuring him battling evil-doers without his incalcuable strength, stamina and durability.   He'll have to rely on his fighting skills, weapon mastery and vast experience for now.  "
Dang, that sounds pretty badass. "

Maybe so, but I hope it doesn't turn out to be pretty lame-ass.
#22 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze said:
" @PowerHerc said:
Yeah, can see it isn't Thor's hammer. I don't want Herc to get his sky-father powers back.  I want him at his pre-Chaos War level.    In my opinion "Chaos War" was good overall, but it could have showcased Herc's power more. "
You lost me.  Chaos War was almost nothing but Hercules showcasing his powers.  Pak and Lente even specified in an interview they made Hercules the most powerful god ever.  His power was more on par with an abstract being rather than any god or even skyfather in the traditional sense.   
  
Yeah they said they made him the most powerful god ever and I love that!   
 
However, they never let him really cut loose and really use his power.  I would've liked to have seen Herc casually throwing around a few abstracts and high-level cosmic beings Ala Thanos in the Infinity Gauntlet.  Instead he spent way to much time having surrogates take the lead.  The whole thing would have been better if Herc had demonstrated his true power level more times and against many other poweful beings.   
 
An interview where the authors state how powerful Herc is/had become just isn't the same as seeing it depicted in action-packed sequential art.
#23 Edited by Z3RO180 (6549 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze: 
 @PowerHerc:

thanks for your views on the whole chaos war thing and can i colect in in trade or is stil sinle issues?
#24 Edited by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

" @PowerHerc said:

  
Yeah they said they made him the most powerful god ever and I love that!   
 
However, they never let him really cut loose and really use his power.  I would've liked to have seen Herc casually throwing around a few abstracts and high-level cosmic beings Ala Thanos in the Infinity Gauntlet.  Instead he spent way to much time having surrogates take the lead.  The whole thing would have been better if Herc had demonstrated his true power level more times and against many other poweful beings.   
 
An interview where the authors state how powerful Herc is/had become just isn't the same as seeing it depicted in action-packed sequential art.
"
I think recreating the multiverse and fighting Mikaboshi was meant to establish that.  Mikaboshi by this point was supposed to have power more in line with an abstract being than a god.  Same with Hercules.  Frankly, I am glad they did not have Hercules throwing around the abstracts.  I felt throwing around the Council Elite was a bit much.  The whole DBZ bit of Chaos War is one of the major reasons I do not like it. It feels like story was sacrificed just so Pak could go:  "See Hercules is the best god and can beat up anyone else!"   I just hate stories that have nothing more than "My characters is in ubergodmode, impossible better than every other character out there!"  I did not like Sentry because of it.  I did not like the early Rhulk stories because of it. I feel similar about WWH as well.   
 
Why would you want Hercules to be throwing around the abstracts?  By that point wouldn't it be about humiliating them for no other reason than to pump Hercules up?
#25 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze said:
"
" @PowerHerc said:

  
Yeah they said they made him the most powerful god ever and I love that!   
 
However, they never let him really cut loose and really use his power.  I would've liked to have seen Herc casually throwing around a few abstracts and high-level cosmic beings Ala Thanos in the Infinity Gauntlet.  Instead he spent way to much time having surrogates take the lead.  The whole thing would have been better if Herc had demonstrated his true power level more times and against many other poweful beings.   
 
An interview where the authors state how powerful Herc is/had become just isn't the same as seeing it depicted in action-packed sequential art.
"
I think recreating the multiverse and fighting Mikaboshi was meant to establish that.  Mikaboshi by this point was supposed to have power more in line with an abstract being than a god.  Same with Hercules.  Frankly, I am glad they did not have Hercules throwing around the abstracts.  I felt throwing around the Council Elite was a bit much.  The whole DBZ bit of Chaos War is one of the major reasons I do not like it. It feels like story was sacrificed just so Pak could go:  "See Hercules is the best god and can beat up anyone else!"   I just hate stories that have nothing more than "My characters is in ubergodmode, impossible better than every other character out there!"  I did not like Sentry because of it.  I did not like the early Rhulk stories because of it. I feel similar about WWH as well.     Why would you want Hercules to be throwing around the abstracts?  By that point wouldn't it be about humiliating them for no other reason than to pump Hercules up? "

Recreating the multiverse was quite a feat, yes.  And I get that you felt Sentry, Rulk and WWHulk were portrayed as being too powerful, but Herc was amped to the point of being the most powerful god ever.  I think that would make him kicking ass on a cosmic level  more acceptable than these others.  It seemed pretty obvious that Herc's amping was temporary, so why not have him cut loose?   
 
As far as why I'd have liked to see Herc throwing the abstracts around; it's entirely plausible that the many and varied top-tier abstracts and cosmics would feel threatened by Herc with his new found power and would then mount an assault on him.  The action and excitement of that battle would/could have been truly epic.  As for the humiliation of the abstracts; it's hard to feel any sympathy for these characters as many are far to haughty and deserve a bit of comeuppance.  Herc whupping there buts would've provided some really incredible action scenes, and those are a big part of why many of us read comics.   
 
Large over-the-top action would definitely been appropriate in a story like this.  You don't seem to think so.  That's fine.  But why wouldn't you want to see characters with nearly infinite power use and demonstrate that power?  If you prefer small scale action and a lot of dialogue why not read the books about lower-powered angst-ridden characters?  This was supposed to be an epic event but I think it could/should have delivered more action if it wanted to live up to it's premise.  Since Herc was the hero and focus of the story, I feel he should have been given more action, feats and highlights than he got.  You're glad they didn't.   
 
Maybe you prefer lower and non-powered heroes and stories about them.  If so, maybe you'll like the now de-powered Herc fighting street-level threats and villains.  
#26 Edited by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:


Recreating the multiverse was quite a feat, yes.  And I get that you felt Sentry, Rulk and WWHulk were portrayed as being too powerful, but Herc was amped to the point of being the most powerful god ever.  I think that would make him kicking ass on a cosmic level  more acceptable than these others.  It seemed pretty obvious that Herc's amping was temporary, so why not have him cut loose?    As far as why I'd have liked to see Herc throwing the abstracts around; it's entirely plausible that the many and varied top-tier abstracts and cosmics would feel threatened by Herc with his new found power and would then mount an assault on him.  The action and excitement of that battle would/could have been truly epic.  As for the humiliation of the abstracts; it's hard to feel any sympathy for these characters as many are far to haughty and deserve a bit of comeuppance.  Herc whupping there buts would've provided some really incredible action scenes, and those are a big part of why many of us read comics.    Large over-the-top action would definitely been appropriate in a story like this.  You don't seem to think so.  That's fine.  But why wouldn't you want to see characters with nearly infinite power use and demonstrate that power?  If you prefer small scale action and a lot of dialogue why not read the books about lower-powered angst-ridden characters?  This was supposed to be an epic event but I think it could/should have delivered more action if it wanted to live up to it's premise.  Since Herc was the hero and focus of the story, I feel he should have been given more action, feats and highlights than he got.  You're glad they didn't.    Maybe you prefer lower and non-powered heroes and stories about them.  If so, maybe you'll like the now de-powered Herc fighting street-level threats and villains.   "

You misunderstand me.  I don't have an initial problem with the power levels of the Sentry, Rhulk, or WWH.  It was how their stories were executed.  The first Sentry mini was good, but since then he either existed to be the best at everything, strongest, most heroic, smartest, best friend, inspiration, etc.   Jenkin's "Sentry: Fallen Sun" is the best example of this, but not the only. Or to be the uberpowerful character no one has a hope of beating so he is only pulled out when needed.  Otherwise his mental problems keep him from doing anything.    The first twelve issues or so of Rhulk were about him being awesomely better than ever other character.  Beating Thor up with his own hammer after the thunder god comes out of nowhere?  Stealing the Surfer's powers and board to go for a joyride?  Punching out a Watcher?  WWH had a bit more story, but felt like it had a similar underlying base.  
 
Hercules having skyfather powers?  For the story not a problem.  Him being so much more powerful than the other skyfather?  Questionable since it made the God Squad pointless.  The final power up at the end?  Combined with the other story flaws it felt like one of the points in the story was just to show Hercules as the ultimate, uber, god mode god.  
 
As for the abstracts getting their "comeuppance"....you do realize this was Hercules right?  The same Herc who twice attacked the Council of Gods while bragging about how much greater he was and they should bow to him.  The first in his rampage he punched out Balder, one of the most humble and kind gods after the latter made the mistake of trying to calm him down.  The second time Herc let Mikaboshi into heaven right through the front door.  
 
The abstracts themselves only come off as haughty usually when poorly written.  They are superior to humans.  The best writers tend to write them with a certain degree of aloofness and majesty like Dan Abbott and Andy Lanning.  Starlin seems to be the one largely responsible for righting them like arrogant jerks.  For some reason he can't write high cosmics any other way.  He even admitted he had to twist the New Gods into this image in the intro to the tpb which is why most if not all New Gods fans hate Death of the New Gods.  The abstracts are no more haughty than most gods or mortals for that matter.
 
You are right that large over the top action would have been perfect for this story.  Massive armies of gods battling each other.  Hercules standing at the front lines confronting the godheads of alien pantheons.  Hercules and Mikaboshi throwing planets at each other and tearing reality apart around them.  Hercules exploring his other powers and omniscience in an attempt to win.  Hercules's god powers failing only to become an avatar to Eternity and channel that power would have been epic.  Hercules would have received the vaunted wisdom, a means to use it, and more power all in a more believable way.  All of that would have been great.  What did we get?  Half an issue of #3 of the God Squad fighting the Greek gods before Hercules casually trounces them.  We then see Mikaboshi do the same, without the aid of his army, to Earth's gods.  The big battle in the last issue?  Hercules and Mikaboshi both grow to a large size and punch/claw each other a few times like they could have done on the ground or any size.  Your right things like that would have been epic.     Chaos War: Thor was in a way more epic. 
 
I don't have a problem with epic stories or high power levels.  I like Hercules, Silver Surfer, and Thor and most godly and cosmic stories.  I think Annihilation, Infinity Gauntlet, and Simonson's Surtur saga were some of the greatest stories ever.  I just think Chaos War was a highly flawed story that increased with each issue.  Why bother spending an entire issue assembling the God Squad when they are only going to be around a single issue and be useless?  Why need them when Hercules can casually defeat all the gods they are fighting himself?  Why both with armies on either side when the two combatants are so much more powerful than everyone else?  Why spend an entire first issue returning Hercules, have him explain everything, and gather an army of heroes only for them to all be taken out at the end of that issue?  All the first and fourth issues were pretty much were dialogue.  Why have Mikaboshi just float around all of #4?  
 
You are right in that Hercules is the focus of the story.  So why not show some growth?  Why not have him use some of this wisdom or omniscience he brags about?  Why show him as fickle and foolish as the gods he is insulting?  Why give him all the power of the universe only to use it to punch him?  Why not let him try to be a tad more creative with it?  Why not have a few energy blasts at least?  If he can freeze time why not have him try to freeze Mikaboshi in time?  If he can teleport beings why not have him try to teleport Mikaboshi far, far away?  If he is now the ultimate skyfather/font of creation why not have him try to defeat Mikaboshi by essentially messing with the chaos Mikaboshi is breaking down into.  Afterall, in most creation myths creator gods don't create out of nothing.  They take preexisting chaos and create from it.  
 
I think I've made my point.  I don't have a problem so much with power or action.  My problem is with the way stories are executed.  They made Hercules so uberpowerful that all the time spend on the God Squad served little to no point.  What good is Thor's lighting against a being as powerful as Mikaboshi?   Why bother with Galactus when Zeus can trounce him with little effort and Hercules can do the same to Zeus?  Why spend two entire issues just talking and assembling different two different groups only for them both to serve no point?  Why give Hercules all that power if all he is going to do is punch with it over and over.  Infinity Gauntlet showed how you portray such powers in diverse ways.  Heck, I can think of several other stories that have done so better.  I know its Hercules and he punches things, but the whole point of #4 was punching was not going to work.  So in that final battle why didn't Hercules try anything even a bit more creative?  Why didn't he take the sun and make Mikaboshi choke on it?  
 
As for the abstracts...if Pak and Lente had actually written a decent reason for him to fight them I would not have a problem with it.  If it felt like it was just to show how uber powerful Hercules is I would have had a problem with it.
#27 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze:
Alright, now I got it;  it was the execution of the story and the fact that the presence of the heroes (other that Hercules) was pretty much made pointless due to there actual inability to have any effect on Mikaboshi.  I now see that you were dissappointed in how Hercules used or, more accurately, didn't use his new ominpotence.   
 
We actually do agree, to a certain degree, on some of these points.
#28 Edited by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:

"  Alright, now I got it;  it was the execution of the story and the fact that the presence of the heroes (other that Hercules) was pretty much made pointless due to there actual inability to have any effect on Mikaboshi.  I now see that you were dissappointed in how Hercules used or, more accurately, didn't use his new ominpotence.    We actually do agree, to a certain degree, on some of these points. "

That's pretty much it.  Why spend two issues gathering different groups of heroes if A) You aren't going to use them for anything and B) Hercules is so powerful they cannot help in anyway.  Galactus is taken down by Zeus who is then with ease taken down by Herc. If they are not going to be used at all then don't spend as much time gathering them.  Spend that time on Hercules somehow trying to find away out of this mess or developing some other plot point.   I could see spending maybe an issue on it, but that was about it.  Even in the last issue where the God Squad and some other heroes and gods didn't seem to serve much purpose.  They had one or two panels of trying to attack and/or delay Mikaboshi.  But again at the level of power Mikaboshi was operating at they should not have had any effect at all.  Odin and Zeus have shrugged off there attacks without flinching.  Even if a villain is so powerful that some of the heroes cannot really do anything usually they give them at least something to do so they either do not come across as totally useless or a waste of story space.  Not here.
 
And yes, whatever issues I may have had with Herc's power level or how he acquired those powers the fact he had all that power and did nothing with it is another issue that really bugged me.  Punching is fine at first even if your uberpowerful.  The Galactus and In-betweener fight had punching.  Several other fights of cosmic gods involve fisticuffs from time to time.  However, usually something else was done as well.  Galactus and the In-betweener were shown destroying planets and used a few energy blasts.  When energy blasts and the physical approach would not work against Desak King Thor tried sending him away and phasing him out of existence.  Neither worked, but they were something he had not tried.  Odin hurled metroites at Thanos and the latter tried trapping Odin in a block of pure force between the massive energy blasts they were shooting at each other.  The battle between Darkseid and the Source was shown as energy blasts, but tore open a hole in reality.  Several of Marvel's abstract battles have been plainly stated to be taking place on planes of existence beyond the physical.  Heck, there is some evidence to suggest Zeus may have used his powers to somehow interfere with the Hulk's healing in their physical fight.  Yet in Hercules he didn't try anything else nor was there anything to indicate he tried.  Four issues were spent hammering in the point that the straightforward, punching approach was not going to work.  But that is all Hercules tried upon getting his new power-up. 
#29 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze:
Though I'm glad Herc got his moment in the spotlight and used it to save the multiverse, I too wish he'd have used his incredibly vast powers in more creative and demonstative ways than simply punching. 

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