Hercules (Marvel): Who is his arch-enemy?

#1 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio


Who is the Prince of Power's greatest foe?

 

Is it his half-brother and godly rival, Ares?



 

Ares: God of War.

Is it his jealous and hateful step-mother, Hera?



 

Hera: Queen of Olympus.


Is it the Olympian Gods' most dangerous threat; Typhon?



 

Typhon: Monstous son of Gaea.



Or is it somebody else? 

What is your opinion?











#2 Posted by seekquaze (632 posts) - - Show Bio

To me what tends to make an arch enemy is how they act as a foil for the hero, what threat level they present, how often they fight them, and how personal it is.  An enemy would just want to kill the hero with something simple like a bullet to the head.  An arch enemy wants to completely destroy their life often for some perceived slight.

Mythological it would be Hera.  She was the one who tormented him his entire life.  Ares fought him twice, but it was never really personal or a high threat level.  Hera was the one that stood out. Causing him to murder his family both made it personal.   In the comics I would not say she is really one.  In the storylines to feature Hercules she hasn't played that much of a direct threat.  IIRC, all she has really done is the Tyler Madison and New Labors storylines.  The second was more to embarrass him than anything that approaches a threat.  She is an enemy, but not an arch enemy.

Typhon has never been shown to be the end all threat to Hercules.  In the forms he has taken in modern times he doesn't have the power.  Most often he gets lucky and sneaked into Olympus to mess with the Promethean Flame.  In direct battle with Hercules he has usually been shown lacking.  He is more an enemy of Olympus that Hercules has to stop rather than an "arch enemy."  Ty

About the same with Pluto.  Hay may threaten Olympus from time to time and have the power to accomplish it, but he lacks the overall "personal" or "foil" touch.  For him Hercules is more an impediment to his plans than someone he sits around plotting to destroy for personal reasons.

Ares I would say is the closet thing one could call an "arch enemy" for Hercules.  He has opposed Herc the most number of times.  He has a longer list of reasons to hate Hercules than Hera (whose problems with Herc rightfully is with Zeus and maybe Athena).  He is the one who at least once has plotted to destroy Hercules directly and when he was carrying out his evil schemes set out to make Hercule suffer.  Even as a hero the two have been at odds.  Ares is a great foil for Hercules because Herc in a way I think he is who Ares wants to be.  Herc engages in the same violence and other faults of Ares, but is loved by it and favored by Zeus.  Ares in a way is who Hercules could become if he lost too much of his humanity.  Even as a "hero" Ares tends to lose himself in his lust for violence and enjoy it a bit too much.  They are so similar that Ares can not figure out why Hercules is well loved and he is not.  Finally, Hercules drastically outpowers Ares, but Ares can usually make it up with magical and modern weapons and intelligence when he puts his mind to it.  In fact, power is about the only thing Ares is lacking.  He isn't intelligent enough to be a high threat nor is his physical strength great enough.

#3 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze:
Nice post.  

 

What you described/attributed to Ares emotionally and motivationally is exactly how he was depicted in the "Incredible Hercules:  Against the World" story-arc. 

I'm glad you mentioned Pluto (I can't believe I forgot to list him as a choice).  Maybe Herc will stay popular long enough to give one of his enemies sufficient exposure to become, unquestionably, his arch-enemy.

#4 Posted by Deranged Midget (18051 posts) - - Show Bio

I would definitely say Ares. He is angered at the fact that Zeus favours Hercules over him, and also that he killed Ares' pets. It's given Ares a life long hatred for his half brother, as well as constantly trying to regain his honour while lingering under the legend of Hercules.

#5 Posted by D3athstroke (4348 posts) - - Show Bio

Alcohol

#6 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (8143 posts) - - Show Bio

Hera

#7 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio
@D3athstroke said:
"

                    Alcohol

                   

                "

LOL!
#8 Posted by Green Skin (2918 posts) - - Show Bio
@D3athstroke said:
" Alcohol "
How would that be his arch-enemy?  It's more like his best friend.
#9 Posted by Z3RO180 (6843 posts) - - Show Bio

The chaos king i would say.
#10 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio
@Z3RO180 said:
"

                    The chaos king i would say.

                   

                "


You may indeed be correct. 

The Chaos King is definitely Herc's most powerful and most dangerous enemy.

#11 Posted by seekquaze (632 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc:
Enemy yes, but I wouldn't say arch-enemy.  Mikaboshi started off more an enemy for Ares and later all of creation.  For Mikaboshi his main enemy might as well have been Thor or Snowbird, or Amaterasu.  There was no real personal angle to it like with Ares or even Hera and Pluto. 
#12 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze said:
"

                    @PowerHerc: Enemy yes, but I wouldn't say arch-enemy.  Mikaboshi started off more an enemy for Ares and later all of creation.  For Mikaboshi his main enemy might as well have been Thor or Snowbird, or Amaterasu.  There was no real personal angle to it like with Ares or even Hera and Pluto. 

                   

                "

Herc's problems with Mikaboshi aren't AS personal or even close to as long-standing as his enmity with Ares, Typhon, Hera or Pluto, but he does have the potential to become Herc's arch-foe.
#13 Posted by DH69 (4193 posts) - - Show Bio

If we're dealing with actual greek mythology Hera was the biggest thorn in his side.

 

until chaos war it would've been her or ares to a lesser extent but since then they really pushed Mikaboshi

#14 Posted by joshmightbe (24842 posts) - - Show Bio

Herc's biggest problem is the fact that he's never had a real clear cut rogues gallery most the people he fights are threats to everyone or someone else's enemies, Hera was more interested in getting back at Zeus than actually hurting Herc, he just happened to be in the middle of it. Ares was the closest to being his real arch nemesis but that always seemed more like an extreme case of sibling rivalry unlike Thor and Loki who genuinely hate eachother.   

#15 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:
"

                    Herc's biggest problem is the fact that he's never had a real clear cut rogues gallery most the people he fights are threats to everyone or someone else's enemies, Hera was more interested in getting back at Zeus than actually hurting Herc, he just happened to be in the middle of it. Ares was the closest to being his real arch nemesis but that always seemed more like an extreme case of sibling rivalry unlike Thor and Loki who genuinely hate eachother.   

                   

                "


If you read their earlier battles in the "Avengers" and the "Hercules: Heart of Chaos" mini, you'll see that Herc and Ares do hate each other.  It goes far beyond sibling rivalry. 

I think Marvel trying to push Ares as a modern anti-hero has obscured a lot of his villainous past in the minds of soe older readers while leaving newer readers largely unaware of it. 

#16 Edited by seekquaze (632 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc:
One problem I have always had with the new push of Ares being an anti-hero is most writers glossed over his past.  Here is a guy who has tried to reduce the world to barbarism, start WWIII, and cut a bloody path through human history making him one of the biggest mass murderers ever.  He wars for fun.  Yet when Bendis put him on the Avengers no one batted an eyebrow and Ares was treated just like someone who had a few sparring matches with Herc a couple of times.  Whatever issues I may have with Pak and Lente's treatment of the Olympian family they were the only ones who seemed to remember Ares's villainous history.  It was brought up both in the Hercules and War Machine series.    Other writers treated him more like a mean biker and a brutish caveman who may beat you up, but would be unwilling to cleave you in two.  They act like he had always been a hero who just got carried away a few times.

It would be like putting the Punisher or Sabertooth on a team and everybody accepting it with no problem.  Wolverine is one thing since he usually tries to be selective on who he kills.  Ares is rarely so selective.
#17 Posted by joshmightbe (24842 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc: in comparison to their mythological roots their previous battles were relatively tame  
#18 Posted by Amegashita (3560 posts) - - Show Bio

  Women?  But in all seriousness, I'd say Hera just because of the Mythological history concerning their relations.

#19 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze said:
"

                    @PowerHerc: One problem I have always had with the new push of Ares being an anti-hero is most writers glossed over his past.  Here is a guy who has tried to reduce the world to barbarism, start WWIII, and cut a bloody path through human history making him one of the biggest mass murderers ever.  He wars for fun.  Yet when Bendis put him on the Avengers no one batted an eyebrow and Ares was treated just like someone who had a few sparring matches with Herc a couple of times.  Whatever issues I may have with Pak and Lente's treatment of the Olympian family they were the only ones who seemed to remember Ares's villainous history.  It was brought up both in the Hercules and War Machine series.    Other writers treated him more like a mean biker and a brutish caveman who may beat you up, but would be unwilling to cleave you in two.  They act like he had always been a hero who just got carried away a few times.It would be like putting the Punisher or Sabertooth on a team and everybody accepting it with no problem.  Wolverine is one thing since he usually tries to be selective on who he kills.  Ares is rarely so selective.

                   

                "


Yes, exactly. 

 

Great points about Ares joining the Avengers, at Tony Stark's insistance, and no one minding.  What a crock!  Ares has the potential to be a much better villain than he's been in the past, but Marvel making him a hero is a mistake.  It's wrong. 

 

As you stated; at least Pak and Van Lente remembered the true Ares.

#20 Posted by seekquaze (632 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc:
I think Ares could work as an anti-hero.  Oeming did a decent job of setting him upon a more noble path.  He was perfect on the Dark Avengers because it makes sense Osborn would want someone like him, Ares would have little problem with working alongside people like the Dark Avengers, and it would allow Ares to play hero and be insanely violent at the same time.  Gillen also got the guy.  I could even see Ares being on a team like the Secret Avengers as someone who is willing to do the dirty work when you don't have Wolverine or War Machine available and Valkyrie is not around.  I think he could work on the Thunderbolts as well.  But a straight hero on what is supposed to be publicly the greatest heroes of America if not on Earth? 

Give Ares a story arc where he has to prove himself to Earth's heroes that he is different like what Rhulk had to go through.  Have some of the heroes mistrust him because he sided with Osborn and has a history of trying to kill Thor and Hercules.  Heck, maybe a story where he gets tired of being on black ops and turns back to his villanious ways to get back at people. 
#21 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio


Personally, I'll never accept Ares as a hero or anti-hero. 

He lacks the selflessness and, more importantly, the altruism to be a true hero. 

#22 Posted by seekquaze (632 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc:
I think your overall right as a straight hero.  Anti-heroes are by nature more grey and can either be very dark heroes (like Wolverine) or beings who aren't quite villanious enough or just happen to fight villains.  I can appricaite not having a character be set in stone so Ares grows some as a character.  You can always move him back to villain status.  I do think the idea that he is suddenly a hero does not work.
#23 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio
@seekquaze said:
"

                    @PowerHerc: I think your overall right as a straight hero.  Anti-heroes are by nature more grey and can either be very dark heroes (like Wolverine) or beings who aren't quite villanious enough or just happen to fight villains.  I can appricaite not having a character be set in stone so Ares grows some as a character.  You can always move him back to villain status.  I do think the idea that he is suddenly a hero does not work.

                   

                "


I see your point(s).  I'm glad to see we agree on Ares as a hero not working.  It's too bad Marvel doesn't see this. 

 

I forgot to mention that I suspect their (Marvel) motivation for suddenly presenting and promoting Ares as a hero/anti-hero is the success of the "Kratos" character in the "God of War" video games.  Becasue of Kratos' popularity and success, Marvel wants to get in on the action and make some money off their own God of War

#24 Posted by katanalauncher (934 posts) - - Show Bio

Hydra?

#25 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio
@katanalauncher:
Assuming you are referring to the nine-headed serpent from his labors;  I'd say the Hydra bears mentioning but isn't Herc's arch-enemy since he has so few showings in the comics and can't compare at all to the deliberate villainy Ares, Hera, Pluto, Typhon and even Mikaboshi have perpetrated against Herc. 
#26 Posted by AssertingValor (5782 posts) - - Show Bio

Hades and always will be hades................................................
#27 Posted by IronHerc (92 posts) - - Show Bio

For me is either Hera or the chaos king, since the beginning you can feel the tension between both herc and CK before he was known as the god of chaos and we knew after the secret invasion tie-in from Incredible Hercules that this guy was going to be trouble in the future (but not THAT much of a problem which we find out later xD) Ares is slightly behind them (more like a his evil rival)

#28 Posted by seekquaze (632 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc:
I think your right about Ares at least as far as Bendis is concerned.  Oeming came across as just wanting to take a bit of a different angle on a rather obscure and one-dimensional Marvel character.  Oeming had Ares care for Alexander, but still not be that heroic of a character.  He would get his son back damn the consequences.  Bendis is the one who decided to put him on the Avengers and make him the resident badass who does bare a resemblance to Kratos, but that may just be due to popularity of such characters and manly, rage-filled badasses share similar traits.
#29 Posted by PowerHerc (85533 posts) - - Show Bio


Good points, but I still think corporate Marvel wanted to get a slice of the currently hot "God of War" trend. 

This may have even been Bendis' idea, but I think it would've happened no matter who the writer was.

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