What The Hell?

Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

I was thinking of how many Hell Lords are there in marvel and who is above who and most powerful not by assumptions but by feats.  When i 1st started reading comics i got a copy of Ghostrider's origin story and it was the 1st time i saw a demon claiming himself to be Satan of course we learn that it was Mephisto through a retcon. Later especially in the last decade we seen other demons who say they are the Devil and even the fallen angel Satan, Lucifer but they do not show any power that would make them equal or superior to Mephisto and it got me wondering where do they all stack up against the main MU demon aka Mephisto and if the nature of hell in the MU is structured each one above or below the other and if so then why does Mephisto's realm a separate pocket dimension and manifestation of himself.
 

 

 
Is Mephisto still the King of Hell?

#1 Posted by jloneblackheart (5506 posts) - - Show Bio

There are nearly a dozen. Mephisto, Hela, Satan, Lucifer, Satannish, Thog, Pluto, etc. They all seem to have their own realms. What I want to know is how they manage to steal so many souls from Death herself. You think she'd get pissed there were so many 'rulers of hell

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#2 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

Hela, pluto are death gods of their own pantheon, i personally dont see them as Demons and what i am looking for.
 
Also is Hela currently been given a small piece of Mephisto's realm by Mephisto's good graces? O_o
 
I really want to talk about who is the actual ruler of Hell and what power level they are and if anyone has any more legitimacy then another to claim to be the actual Fallen Angel and if that itself makes them the supreme ruler of overall hell or just their own little pocket dimension.

#3 Posted by jloneblackheart (5506 posts) - - Show Bio

I think based on feats. Mephisto trumps them all, but I don't think that necessarily means he is more powerful than the others, just more utilized. The "fallen angel" thing is probably so fuzzy because while the comics have a Hell and a devil, there really is no expansion on God or Heaven. The Marvel U has no Christian God I know of, just the One Above All. It's like they want to use the evil and concept of Satan or the Devil, but don't want to cross the line of saying that the god of the Marvel Universe is a Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc.

Your question also applies to me to "gods" as well. There are just as many gods in the Marvel U as there are demons. They all rarely interact or take on the same characters or enemies. It's just so hard to gauge them all compared to one another.

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#4 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel can't make it's mind up... There are some things Marvel is afraid to commit a definitive answer to because then they will have to stick to it.
 
At the moment, it seems there are 9 'parts' of hell, each with their own ruler.  Mephisto, Hela, Pluto, etc...  (For a moment I pictured Disney's Pluto in the group)
Apparently they have board meetings to make the big decisions.

#5 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm
 
i agree. but, i have the problem with them going half way with Devils who act and say they are the original one. Plus in the Gambit Mini story, there was an actual angel that Gambit was protecting from a demon. so one cant say they havent done it before they simply forget they already have.
 
I mean punisher was an agent of heaven, do you remember that story arc?
 
and ghost rider is now claiming to be an angel himself... so i mean why cant we be clear about who is the top demon and get some background or closure?
#6 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually there are a few Heaven-like realms that have been mentioned such as Valhalla and Elysium  

#7 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

If I ever read an arc where The Punisher was an agent of Heaven, I'm pretty sure I'd black it out... And thanks for reminding me!  LOL!
 Ghost Rider, an Angel?  Yeah, sure, I can see that... Except for, you know, the flaming skull, and hanging out with Demons, and punishing people and using hell fire as a weapon and all... But other than that, sure...   (wtf?)
 Marvel does this all the time.  You'll read something is DEFINITELY this way.  and then later, you find out that it was either; a lie, misunderstanding, a facade, or cosmically altered... And then there's the all purpose 'Ret-Con.'
 
- Jean didn't REALLY die, she was put into a cocoon and left in stasis under water.
- Spider-man's powers didn't REALLY come from the bite of a radioactive spider, it was MAGIC
- Task-Master isn't a bad guy, NOOOO, he's a shield agent with memory problems.  (I'm not making any of this up)
- The Beyonder is really really dead this time... DOH!  We got you, didn't we?  He's just playing with making worlds at the moment.  And he's not REALLY a being from a different dimension as we said at first... He's really a maturing Cosmic Cube who will one day grow into one of the Abstracts of the Universe...
-  Wolverine and Sabertooth are brothers.  There, we said it and we mean it!  PSYCHE!!!  No, no, no, they have nothing to do with each other... Uh oh, did you believe that one?  Well, they are actually both descended from Romulus, an immortal wolf guy... Really?  REALLY, we mean it this time! 

Mephisto - Mephisto is the ruler of all of hell!  So says Mephisto!
The Adversary - What the hell did he say?
Pluto - He spoke foolilshness!  Would you not agree, Hela?" 
Hela - Well, or course, since the nine of us rule Hell!  Which really isn't fair since Odin created Hell.
Roma - Now wait just a minute, what the hell do you mean ODIN created hell?
Hela - He did!  He just said so in 'Fear Itself' as he was recruiting Valkyrie to gather the dead and...
Roma - Wait! Wait! WAit!  He's saying HE made hell???  Why that no good......
 
it's as bad as soap operas.... Yet, as much as I complain, I still read them... :)

#8 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: Actually punishing people is about 90% of what angels did in the bible so from a biblical stand point Ghost Rider would fit right in with them 
#9 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:
@Timandm: Actually punishing people is about 90% of what angels did in the bible so from a biblical stand point Ghost Rider would fit right in with them 
I recall Angels 'killing' people, but not punishing them... Although, one could say killing is a form of punishment... But I don't think angels intentionally caused people to suffer.
#10 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: well they intended to do what god told them to do so when he wanted someone to suffer they intentionally made it happen and old testament  god didn't f**k around when doling out punishment, Angels burned Sodom and Gomorrah and turned the people into salt  
#11 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe: Well, the turned one person into salt; Lot's wife.
 
But in the Bible, in situations like that, I see the Angels as creatures that carry out God's judgement.  The ghost rider actually passes judgment....
#12 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7657 posts) - - Show Bio

There must be some major back handers going on somewhere.

#13 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: Actually God has an entire Angel choir dedicated to passing judgement based on his law and since Ghost Rider is only capable of punishing those who sin in a way he's doing the same thing done by the Archangel Raphael  only instead of condemning you to the hell fire Rider blasts you in the face with it
#14 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe
 
too bad Ghost Rider's stare isnt 100% effective and is dependent on the guilt remorse of certain individuals. >_>
#15 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking: That's true but I was just trying to show that Ghost rider wasn't as different from angels as Timandm was implying the modern notion of angels has virtually nothing in common with the original concept  

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