Harry Potter Racist/Elitist overtones?

#1 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
This thread is for discussing if their are racist/elitist overtones to Harry Potter and if that negatively effects the story.
#2 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

Stupid muggles. =P

#3 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger said: 

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

I didn't say that Rowling supports racism, I said that the books have heavy racist overtones to them. And considering the young age of her readers, kids will tend to emulate the wizard characters, calling other people "muggles" and whathaveyou.

Really? REALLY? Come FTBB, you're not that naive. I'm not trying to insult you, you know you're my bro, but that is just a terrible argument.

Except that it happens!

Has someone called you a muggle? Is THAT what this is all about? Because I grew up from age 11 on (I'm 21 now) reading Harry Potter and having all of my closest friends read Harry Potter, none of them (nor myself) has ever actually insulted someone using the term muggle.

Sorry dude, this is just crazy.

Pfft, I don't talk to people, AA. I have seen kids do it to other kids. Whether or not you think it's a serious issue, the point is that in HP canon, it is socially acceptable to use a derogatory slang term to describe people of another race. 
#4 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

I could find these things in a commercial about socks if you asked me to.

Look and ye shall find...or in these cases...force to appear.

#5 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

I didn't say that Rowling supports racism, I said that the books have heavy racist overtones to them. And considering the young age of her readers, kids will tend to emulate the wizard characters, calling other people "muggles" and whathaveyou.

Really? REALLY? Come FTBB, you're not that naive. I'm not trying to insult you, you know you're my bro, but that is just a terrible argument.

Except that it happens!

Has someone called you a muggle? Is THAT what this is all about? Because I grew up from age 11 on (I'm 21 now) reading Harry Potter and having all of my closest friends read Harry Potter, none of them (nor myself) has ever actually insulted someone using the term muggle.

Sorry dude, this is just crazy.

Pfft, I don't talk to people, AA. I have seen kids do it to other kids. Whether or not you think it's a serious issue, the point is that in HP canon, it is socially acceptable to use a derogatory slang term to describe people of another race.

As it is in EVERY SINGLE FANTASY STORY I HAVE EVER READ. It doesn't mean the writer promotes either racism or elitism, and I strongly doubt it negatively effects the children (actually, most Harry Potter readers are my age I believe) who read it. It may be a fantasy world, but it takes its cue from the real world same as any story.

#6 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

I didn't say that Rowling supports racism, I said that the books have heavy racist overtones to them. And considering the young age of her readers, kids will tend to emulate the wizard characters, calling other people "muggles" and whathaveyou.

Really? REALLY? Come FTBB, you're not that naive. I'm not trying to insult you, you know you're my bro, but that is just a terrible argument.

Except that it happens!

Has someone called you a muggle? Is THAT what this is all about? Because I grew up from age 11 on (I'm 21 now) reading Harry Potter and having all of my closest friends read Harry Potter, none of them (nor myself) has ever actually insulted someone using the term muggle.

Sorry dude, this is just crazy.

Pfft, I don't talk to people, AA. I have seen kids do it to other kids. Whether or not you think it's a serious issue, the point is that in HP canon, it is socially acceptable to use a derogatory slang term to describe people of another race.

As it is in EVERY SINGLE FANTASY STORY I HAVE EVER READ. It doesn't mean the writer promotes either racism or elitism, and I strongly doubt it negatively effects the children (actually most Harry Potter readers are my age I believe) who read it. It may be a fantasy world, but it takes its cue from the real world same as any story.

Can I have some examples of humans and "altered" humans? Not like in Star Wars they refer to the Naboo as "Gungman" or something. 
#7 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: Sure. This isn't a book, rather a game, but in the Dragon Age universe elves are treated like second-class citizens. They are forced to live in ghettos called "alienages" and are often referred to as "knife ears" as a racial epithet. This makes the game particularly interesting if playing as an elf, as you have to deal with the harsh treatment others will throw your way.

Mages, themselves persecuted for being born with access to "ungodly" magic, often do not see race as an issue (human and elves are treated equal among mages). The same goes for the mythical order of knights the player joins, the Grey Wardens. They don't care if you're human, elf, or dwarf, as long as you can fight they'll take you.

#8 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: Sure. This isn't a book, rather a game, but in the Dragon Age universe elves are treated like second-class citizens. They are forced to live in ghettos called "alienages" and are often referred to as "knife ears" as a racial epithet. This makes the game particularly interesting if playing as an elf, as you have to deal with the harsh treatment others will throw your way.

Mages, themselves persecuted for being born with access to "ungodly" magic, often do not see race as an issue (human and elves are treated equal among mages).

That's different though. I see what you're saying, and you'll no doubt continue to disagree with me, and that's OK. But what I'm saying is that that Dragon Age stuff adds to the story and is examined closely. In Harry Potter, referring to humans as Muggles is just something that's done. It's government-sanctioned. There's no introspection done on the issue, it's just; "Wizards can call humans muggles and that's just how it is." There's never any questioning of whether or not it's fair, or where the word even came from, it's just an accepted term.  
#9 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: Sure. This isn't a book, rather a game, but in the Dragon Age universe elves are treated like second-class citizens. They are forced to live in ghettos called "alienages" and are often referred to as "knife ears" as a racial epithet. This makes the game particularly interesting if playing as an elf, as you have to deal with the harsh treatment others will throw your way.

Mages, themselves persecuted for being born with access to "ungodly" magic, often do not see race as an issue (human and elves are treated equal among mages).

That's different though. I see what you're saying, and you'll no doubt continue to disagree with me, and that's OK. But what I'm saying is that that Dragon Age stuff adds to the story and is examined closely. In Harry Potter, referring to humans as Muggles is just something that's done. It's government-sanctioned. There's no introspection done on the issue, it's just; "Wizards can call humans muggles and that's just how it is." There's never any questioning of whether or not it's fair, or where the word even came from, it's just an accepted term.

Meh, I suppose I do see it as just relatively harmless in the way the Wizard world works. It isn't really portrayed as that harmful a word to begin with, in many fantasy stories different races have different ways of addressing each other.

In Dragon Age, elves call humans "shemlen" ("quick children" in their tongue, I believe), and it is used EXACTLY like muggle in Harry Potter.

Is it racist or elitist? Sure, maybe a bit. But at the end of the day, is really as bad as the blatant misogyny Stephanie Meyer promotes in Twilight?

#10 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: Sure. This isn't a book, rather a game, but in the Dragon Age universe elves are treated like second-class citizens. They are forced to live in ghettos called "alienages" and are often referred to as "knife ears" as a racial epithet. This makes the game particularly interesting if playing as an elf, as you have to deal with the harsh treatment others will throw your way.

Mages, themselves persecuted for being born with access to "ungodly" magic, often do not see race as an issue (human and elves are treated equal among mages).

That's different though. I see what you're saying, and you'll no doubt continue to disagree with me, and that's OK. But what I'm saying is that that Dragon Age stuff adds to the story and is examined closely. In Harry Potter, referring to humans as Muggles is just something that's done. It's government-sanctioned. There's no introspection done on the issue, it's just; "Wizards can call humans muggles and that's just how it is." There's never any questioning of whether or not it's fair, or where the word even came from, it's just an accepted term.

Meh, I suppose I do see it as just relatively harmless in the way the Wizard world works. It isn't really portrayed as that harmful a word to begin with, in many fantasy stories different races have different ways of addressing each other.

In Dragon Age, elves call humans "shemlen" ("quick children" in their tongue, I believe), and it is used EXACTLY like muggle in Harry Potter.

Is it racist or elitist? Sure, maybe a bit. But is really as bad as the blatant misogyny that Stephanie Meyer promotes in Twilight?

I do tend to make mountains out of mole-hills, thanks for bearing with me =P 
 
Haha, but at the end of the day, nothing is as bad as Twilight. Somehow Mary-Sue, author avatar, fanfiction gets published and makes billions. 
#11 Posted by PrinceIMC (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

What else are they supposed to call them other than Muggles? It's not a derogatory term it's just slang for non-magic folk. Muggles and wizards are all human. As for derogatory terms people toss around the word Mudblood in Harry Potter for a witch or wizard born from Muggles but its usually said by bad people and the good guys say it is an inappropriate word.

#12 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: Sure. This isn't a book, rather a game, but in the Dragon Age universe elves are treated like second-class citizens. They are forced to live in ghettos called "alienages" and are often referred to as "knife ears" as a racial epithet. This makes the game particularly interesting if playing as an elf, as you have to deal with the harsh treatment others will throw your way.

Mages, themselves persecuted for being born with access to "ungodly" magic, often do not see race as an issue (human and elves are treated equal among mages).

That's different though. I see what you're saying, and you'll no doubt continue to disagree with me, and that's OK. But what I'm saying is that that Dragon Age stuff adds to the story and is examined closely. In Harry Potter, referring to humans as Muggles is just something that's done. It's government-sanctioned. There's no introspection done on the issue, it's just; "Wizards can call humans muggles and that's just how it is." There's never any questioning of whether or not it's fair, or where the word even came from, it's just an accepted term.

Meh, I suppose I do see it as just relatively harmless in the way the Wizard world works. It isn't really portrayed as that harmful a word to begin with, in many fantasy stories different races have different ways of addressing each other.

In Dragon Age, elves call humans "shemlen" ("quick children" in their tongue, I believe), and it is used EXACTLY like muggle in Harry Potter.

Is it racist or elitist? Sure, maybe a bit. But is really as bad as the blatant misogyny that Stephanie Meyer promotes in Twilight?

I do tend to make mountains out of mole-hills, thanks for bearing with me =P Haha, but at the end of the day, nothing is as bad as Twilight. Somehow Mary-Sue, author avatar, fanfiction gets published and makes billions.

Hey don't mention it man, this was fun. I've been out of school for a semester and I miss intelligent debates (though you and I actually agree on a lot, save for say religion, it's much more fun to debate homophobic idiots or those that deny evolution). And we can agree, Twilight is a pox on humanity.

#13 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: Sure. This isn't a book, rather a game, but in the Dragon Age universe elves are treated like second-class citizens. They are forced to live in ghettos called "alienages" and are often referred to as "knife ears" as a racial epithet. This makes the game particularly interesting if playing as an elf, as you have to deal with the harsh treatment others will throw your way.

Mages, themselves persecuted for being born with access to "ungodly" magic, often do not see race as an issue (human and elves are treated equal among mages).

That's different though. I see what you're saying, and you'll no doubt continue to disagree with me, and that's OK. But what I'm saying is that that Dragon Age stuff adds to the story and is examined closely. In Harry Potter, referring to humans as Muggles is just something that's done. It's government-sanctioned. There's no introspection done on the issue, it's just; "Wizards can call humans muggles and that's just how it is." There's never any questioning of whether or not it's fair, or where the word even came from, it's just an accepted term.

Meh, I suppose I do see it as just relatively harmless in the way the Wizard world works. It isn't really portrayed as that harmful a word to begin with, in many fantasy stories different races have different ways of addressing each other.

In Dragon Age, elves call humans "shemlen" ("quick children" in their tongue, I believe), and it is used EXACTLY like muggle in Harry Potter.

Is it racist or elitist? Sure, maybe a bit. But is really as bad as the blatant misogyny that Stephanie Meyer promotes in Twilight?

I do tend to make mountains out of mole-hills, thanks for bearing with me =P Haha, but at the end of the day, nothing is as bad as Twilight. Somehow Mary-Sue, author avatar, fanfiction gets published and makes billions.

Hey don't mention it man, this was fun. I've been out of school for a semester and I miss intelligent debates (though you and I actually agree on a lot, save for say religion, it's much more fun to debate homophobic idiots or those that deny evolution). And we can agree, Twilight is a pox on humanity.

Ugh, please don't associate my type of Christianity with that lol. Evolution happened and God doesn't care who you love.  
 
End of debate. 
#14 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: Sure. This isn't a book, rather a game, but in the Dragon Age universe elves are treated like second-class citizens. They are forced to live in ghettos called "alienages" and are often referred to as "knife ears" as a racial epithet. This makes the game particularly interesting if playing as an elf, as you have to deal with the harsh treatment others will throw your way.

Mages, themselves persecuted for being born with access to "ungodly" magic, often do not see race as an issue (human and elves are treated equal among mages).

That's different though. I see what you're saying, and you'll no doubt continue to disagree with me, and that's OK. But what I'm saying is that that Dragon Age stuff adds to the story and is examined closely. In Harry Potter, referring to humans as Muggles is just something that's done. It's government-sanctioned. There's no introspection done on the issue, it's just; "Wizards can call humans muggles and that's just how it is." There's never any questioning of whether or not it's fair, or where the word even came from, it's just an accepted term.

Meh, I suppose I do see it as just relatively harmless in the way the Wizard world works. It isn't really portrayed as that harmful a word to begin with, in many fantasy stories different races have different ways of addressing each other.

In Dragon Age, elves call humans "shemlen" ("quick children" in their tongue, I believe), and it is used EXACTLY like muggle in Harry Potter.

Is it racist or elitist? Sure, maybe a bit. But is really as bad as the blatant misogyny that Stephanie Meyer promotes in Twilight?

I do tend to make mountains out of mole-hills, thanks for bearing with me =P Haha, but at the end of the day, nothing is as bad as Twilight. Somehow Mary-Sue, author avatar, fanfiction gets published and makes billions.

Hey don't mention it man, this was fun. I've been out of school for a semester and I miss intelligent debates (though you and I actually agree on a lot, save for say religion, it's much more fun to debate homophobic idiots or those that deny evolution). And we can agree, Twilight is a pox on humanity.

Ugh, please don't associate my type of Christianity with that lol. Evolution happened and God doesn't care who you love. End of debate.

As would say the friends I have that identify themselves as Christian. I have no problem with their beliefs.

As for the other type, I only associate with them when I feel like being a total and complete troll. ^_^

#15 Posted by SC (13145 posts) - - Show Bio

To me, its more about the Wizard casting the spell, than the spell itself. I did feel Hagrid was mistreated and the students from other schools were stereotypes.  
 
Then again, I think Twilight is okay, so... *grin*

Moderator
#16 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

Muggle blood

#17 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33609 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn Mudbloods, but on another note Hogwarts is the worst school ever, it should have been shut down after it's first term.

#18 Posted by TheRedRobin (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Harry Potter does have racist overtones but I kinda always thought it reflected real life somewhat well.

#19 Posted by Kairan1979 (16777 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, the Wizardling society is racist and predjuiced. I'm not only talking about the treatment of Muggles and Muggleborns.

-) Werewolves can't find the job (Remus Lupin was fired once his secret was out), that's why they join any Dark Lord who offers them the better treatment or the revenge on the Ministry of Magic.

-) Goblins are known for numerous uprisings against the wizards. Wizards trust them with the money and still treat them as second class citizens.

-) People automatically think that Veela use their Allure to steal the men. Even the so-called "progressive" families (check Weasleys' treatment of Fleur Delacour).

-) Madame Maxine is forced to hide her half-giant heritage, and a lot of people assumed Hagrid is a bloodthirsty savage once Skeeter wrote her article in GoF.

And let's not forget about the abuse of House-Elves...

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