Does anyone like New 52 Harley?

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#1 Edited by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

The 1992 cartoony Harley was good of its time and her drama with Joker was okay back in that time before Mad Love came out but I cannot tolerate her being around the Joker if she's only gonna be abused and used by him. It's been proven that Joker only sees her as a toy in SS and there is no logical or sane point in having her around the Joker if romance was the deciding issue. It's not just with romance that held the character back, it's her constant co-dependence issues and role of being the punchline for other peoples' jokes. I'm gonna say it, the old Harley was weak-willed, dependent, had extremely low self-esteem and let her need to be in a relationship she has with one man define her entire existence and purpose.

Despite the superficial changes made to Harley's appearance, she was the same bubbly clown girl we know but upped her jokes and her self-esteem. She no longer sees herself as someone to be walked on and take unnecessary hits for. She's no longer a doormat and despite her affections for Deadshot and the surveillance on them both, it's clear that she expects herself to be treated like a human being with talents and dreams. But it seems like no one can get past her new redesigned appearance rather than the personality.

All I hear is complaints of how she's a slut (even though everyone keeps forgetting about her tryst with Jimmy Olsen in her own comic series and that she slept with her professor to get her psych degree pre-Flashpoint), weak (uh...I guess nobody has read SS#16 when she killed that Cobra lady with the electrical barb on her tail), how she's a female Joker (this, as much as I tried to get it, it still doesn't make much sense since Harley is more human than Joker regardless of the chemical bath and was proven in SS#15.)

Regardless of the hate she gets, I've truly grown to love this Harley because in a way, she has surpassed her old predecessor by finally getting the guts to leave Joker for good and gained some well-deserved self-esteem and independence of her own character.

#2 Posted by akbogert (3200 posts) - - Show Bio

As is always my caveat, I've not read pre-New 52 DC, so I can't speak to the changes, but I definitely like what little I've seen of new Harley, precisely because she has stood up to Joker. And to be fair, the first scene I read her in didn't even feature the "new look," because she was dressed as Joker.

#3 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl has thoughts on this

#4 Posted by Joygirl (18741 posts) - - Show Bio

DC could have broken away from Joker and given her greater self-esteem without ruining her character. Her history has been destroyed, her outfit has been cast aside (often literally), her personality is gone. Feel free to like the new Harley as a different character, but to say she's better is absurd. She's not as funny, and she's in no way cute. If I could read a comic with old Harley without going "awww" at least once, something was wrong. This new one instills absolutely no sympathy, relateability, or care. She's just another villain. I have never called her slutty (even if Deadshot is gross, which makes her gross too as she now has like 3 STD's), I saw the female Joker thing but it is less prevalent now. Still, she is a different character. Not in any way an improved version of the real Harley Quinn.

#5 Edited by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Well, that's your own opinion. Concerning what I've read of her in what comics series and cartoons I could get my hands on, the New 52 one is still Harley despite the redesign and the new self-esteem and self-claimed independence. You say that she is different but in what real way was her history or personality destroyed?

She is still identified as a former psychologist that fell in love with the Joker and was a blonde. She is still identified as flirty and bubbly and was considered as comedy relief. She is still identified, in my eyes, as Harleen "Harley Quinn" Quinzel. This is not a different character, this is a different interpretation that has indeed improved on the original whether you want to admit or not. Sure you guys had different expectations of how the character would evolve but I would rather risk New 52 Harley and get the improvements than doing the foolish thing of asking to go back to square one with Harley continuing to have co-dependence issues and having extreme low self-esteem and still make the wrong choices despite her true friends' (Ivy and Selina's) warnings.

No sympathy or relativity? I could see people that have been in abusive relationships easily identifying with Harley and instead of staying, she moves away from him that could give these people with bad partners hope in moving away from their toxic relationships instead of doing the dangerous thing of continue to kick a dead horse like the old one portrayed and implied in the comics and cartoons. New Harley is much more sympathetic since she did not choose to be a villain, it was forced on her and her relationship is still viewed as tragic because of what was stolen from her because of the Joker.

I never said that you said she was a slut. The complaints I hear are not just from you, Joygirl, it's from every forum, website, and people online I come across however I found it pretty strange that you would call her powerless despite being able to hold her own in the fights I've seen in SS.

I've read your reason as to why you think that Harley is a different character but I really don't think she's so drastically different because of that.

The "Multiple Harley" Idea did nothing but emphasis that she is nothing but a toy to the Joker. Regardless if it is true or not or whether Harley was the first or last, it still falls in line with Harley being manipulated and used by the Joker as it was said by Batman in Mad Love and how it was always implied in the comics and cartoon.

She may not be cartoony funny or cartoony cute as she was with the old one, but she's funny and cute in her own way and if you don't want to understand that, then that's fine by me. Different strokes for different folks. But to say that Harley was ruined or somehow made worse, just leaves me scratching my head when I continue to read SS and thinking about all of her past appearances and roles throughout her existence.

Sorry but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this on.

#6 Posted by doomsilver (643 posts) - - Show Bio

Really good points. At first I couldn't stand her in New 52, but I like how she stands up to the Joker. That was cool.

#7 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

I wanna "rev up my Harley" again :(

#8 Edited by NovaDawg (22 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I'd accept a lot of these different "New 52" character changes if DC's answer to how to break someone up wasn't to make them sleep with someone else, see Lois Lane, Harley Quinn, and Starfire. That is a soap opera way of doing things and most of their female characters are hollow.

If you wanted an independent Harley, then go back and read some of the good Gotham City Sirens arcs. Suicide Squad is a horrible book and should have been cancelled before the second wave.

#9 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6139 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

DC could have broken away from Joker and given her greater self-esteem without ruining her character. Her history has been destroyed, her outfit has been cast aside (often literally), her personality is gone. Feel free to like the new Harley as a different character, but to say she's better is absurd. She's not as funny, and she's in no way cute. If I could read a comic with old Harley without going "awww" at least once, something was wrong. This new one instills absolutely no sympathy, relateability, or care. She's just another villain. I have never called her slutty (even if Deadshot is gross, which makes her gross too as she now has like 3 STD's), I saw the female Joker thing but it is less prevalent now. Still, she is a different character. Not in any way an improved version of the real Harley Quinn.

This is basically my opinion on the situation. They just changed her too much.

Sex appeal doesn't necessarily make a character better. It's pushed me away from her.

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#10 Posted by SupBatz (1701 posts) - - Show Bio

@SiycoBat said:

The 1992 cartoony Harley was good of its time...

Honestly, that's where my opinion differs most. I fell in love with Harley because she was cartoony and somewhat silly and cute. A lot of people don't like that and that's fine but it always worked for me and really attracted me to the character. I liked that she could be funny and ridiculous yet still get her stuff together when she needed to and really accomplish something.

That's where I feel the greatest loss for Harley. They've upped the crazy and, in my opinion, lost the fun by making her a more sadistic sort of character. I will never try to argue that Harley should be 100% silly/cartoony. Because when you get down to the core of things any version of Harley can be nearly as crazy and sadistic as the Joker when she is pushed. But Harley is fun and not a sadist at heart.

The new design I can ignor. I definitely do not like it at all. But a design is superficial so long as a character is written well.

I agree with your points (as we've discussed before), SiycoBat, that Harley and Joker were in a rut in which Joker continually abused Harley and treated her like a toy only to have her come crawling back to him. That definitely needed to change. And the one thing I truly respect out of New 52 Harley is that she broke away from the Joker. It was long coming and reasonably well executed. And while I still hope that someday a smart writer will come along and decide to put Joker and Harley together as a team in a more fitting way. Joker does everything he does as a joke for Batman. But Harley is the only person he has who can help him tell the joke and who will laugh along with him. If a writer can manage to rely upon that thought then I feel that Joker and Harley can reach the next level and get past the broken abuse formula which worked for Mad Love but has been duplicated far too long.

#11 Posted by Manbehindthewires (344 posts) - - Show Bio

She's a good Harley, not the best. Harley, for me has been someone who, when you see her and Joker, you feel tension, often fear for her, often pity her. To this extent, she's served the New 52 well. I felt my heart in my mouth the first time Joker approached her in DotF.

As a standalone character, still haven't seen enough of her. Suicide Squad hasn't shown any of the Harley of old, that's for sure. I think they need another Sirens-esque series where she can show herself off; her role in Squad is too small for this.

#12 Posted by Vance Astro (91122 posts) - - Show Bio

The classic version of Harley was better. This new one isn't too bad but I like my Harley more playful.

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#13 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@NovaDawg: I can agree that Gotham City Sirens had its good runs but it left me with a sour taste when Harley went back to Joker at the end of the series. I would also suggest the Harley Quinn solo series since it truly shows Harley being independent.

#14 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

DC could have broken away from Joker and given her greater self-esteem without ruining her character. Her history has been destroyed, her outfit has been cast aside (often literally), her personality is gone. Feel free to like the new Harley as a different character, but to say she's better is absurd. She's not as funny, and she's in no way cute. If I could read a comic with old Harley without going "awww" at least once, something was wrong. This new one instills absolutely no sympathy, relateability, or care. She's just another villain. I have never called her slutty (even if Deadshot is gross, which makes her gross too as she now has like 3 STD's), I saw the female Joker thing but it is less prevalent now. Still, she is a different character. Not in any way an improved version of the real Harley Quinn.

This. I despise New 52 Harley and alot of other DC women I once loved.

#15 Posted by akbogert (3200 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz said:

@SiycoBat said:

The 1992 cartoony Harley was good of its time...

Honestly, that's where my opinion differs most. I fell in love with Harley because she was cartoony and somewhat silly and cute. A lot of people don't like that and that's fine but it always worked for me and really attracted me to the character. I liked that she could be funny and ridiculous yet still get her stuff together when she needed to and really accomplish something.

That's where I feel the greatest loss for Harley. They've upped the crazy and, in my opinion, lost the fun by making her a more sadistic sort of character. I will never try to argue that Harley should be 100% silly/cartoony. Because when you get down to the core of things any version of Harley can be nearly as crazy and sadistic as the Joker when she is pushed. But Harley is fun and not a sadist at heart.

The new design I can ignor. I definitely do not like it at all. But a design is superficial so long as a character is written well.

I agree with your points (as we've discussed before), SiycoBat, that Harley and Joker were in a rut in which Joker continually abused Harley and treated her like a toy only to have her come crawling back to him. That definitely needed to change. And the one thing I truly respect out of New 52 Harley is that she broke away from the Joker. It was long coming and reasonably well executed. And while I still hope that someday a smart writer will come along and decide to put Joker and Harley together as a team in a more fitting way. Joker does everything he does as a joke for Batman. But Harley is the only person he has who can help him tell the joke and who will laugh along with him. If a writer can manage to rely upon that thought then I feel that Joker and Harley can reach the next level and get past the broken abuse formula which worked for Mad Love but has been duplicated far too long.

The couple Harley fans I've talked with about the new Harley would probably all applaud this answer (and definitely the first half). , you asked "...in what real way was her history or personality destroyed?" and I think the fun/playful aspect seems to have been mostly lost, relegated to the sideline of her character rather than its defining aspect.

#16 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz: I never said that I didn't like Harley being cartoony. I said that it was good when Harley was making her mark because that's how people recognize her. The cartoony Harley will always have a place in my heart but she's still a baby when compared to how long the most famous heroes and villains were in comics and how many reboots that have happened on them in the past 80 years until a standard was finally set for a character and what changes worked. Her being rebooted and experimenting on her character in the mainstream was only gonna be a matter of time. IMO, as long as her core background and core traits about the character are not compromised and that they actually challenge her emotionally and mentally as well as physically, I have no complaints.....yet.

#17 Posted by Joygirl (18741 posts) - - Show Bio

As for her history, she has clearly either never met or never had any sort of significant relationship with Poison Ivy and certainly never got her powers from her. In fact, she has never mentioned any relationship with anyone ever, besides Joker. So "how has her history been destroyed"? I'd rather you answer how it's intact, besides that... oh, no, wait, her origin story is different now too. Nope. Besides the broad-strokes "created by Joker" thing, all of her history has been wiped clean.

#18 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: The New 52 one has her fun moments like that one time when the squad was getting shot at but Harley just treated it as normal as she ate icecream but yeah, she's not as fun or as playful as you are used to seeing her. I can see that. But I don't think one has a lot of time for much fun of that kind when it's in a book like Suicide Squad.

#19 Posted by akbogert (3200 posts) - - Show Bio

@SiycoBat: Which is why it's no surprise that the same people who criticize the new Harley also think Suicide Squad is terrible for her.

But like I said, cute/playful defined her character, now it's just a trait that occasionally surfaces. That's how folks see her personality as having been destroyed.

#20 Edited by Sinestro2828 (1511 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked her old origin story better, the one where she was an intelligent up and coming psychologist who found herself seduced & brainwashed by the very patient she sought to study/cure. It was tragic and made you sympathize with her, even though it was also quite apparent that the damage had been done and she was quite dangerous herself, and it was also a testimony to Joker's villainous skills in that he was able to corrupt someone like her. The new Harley is nothing more than a female version of Joker, literally as she didn't completely turn over to the dark side until after Joker dumped her into the same acid he fell into...Only of course she somehow ends up with blue and red tye dyed hair and conveniently lacks a permagrin like Joker somehow >_<. Her old origin was way more original and thought provoking, and Joker's accomplishment that much more heinous in that he broke her psyche himself without "instant wacko bath" to do the job for him...Plus, you'd think that Harley would be WAY more useful to the Suicide Squad if she still had her normal healthy skin tone and blonde hair under her clown makeup and costume so she could blend into a crowd unnoticed.

And while I'm not opposed to fanservice, I have to admit the new Harley isn't quite as classy as the original, she was sexy but didn't fool around with guys like Deadshot...And her old costume seemed more like a proper villain outfit and less like street clothes (extremely risque street clothes but ya get what I mean). Its just...Well, she doesn't seem like the Harley I grew up watching on TV, who was cute, funny, tragic, and still psychotic & remorseless when it came to carrying out "her pudding's" will (and even though she was crazy about him, she was also prone to jealousy and rage if she thought he was cheating on her, so there were limits to how far clown face could push her lol). I know what you're trying to say in regards to her going independent, but honestly, Harley's tragic obsession with Joker was a major part of her character, what ultimately kept her in a life of crime, and they play off each other so well, both in terms of comedic effect as well as for those darker moments. Besides, if she's still part of Suicide Squad, she's far from being free and independent with Waller forcing her to do her duty work or else get blown to bits. I honestly thought Harley being part of the Squad would be good for her and fun to read even if she went back to Joker eventually, but the New 52 has pretty much disappointed me alot recently ):

I also thought it was cool how she and Ivy would team up every so often (they make a kickass team), especially when Harley and Joker had a falling out, but ya always knew sooner or later she'd return to him to help with some new scheme. She's like Joker's answer to Robin or Batgirl, it was cool to see Joker have a recurring right hand villain to aid him in his schemes, one with a quirky and insane personality of her own to boot. She actually stands out from other female Batman villains in that she was infatuated with Joker instead of doing her own thing like Ivy or Catwoman.

P.S. I actually liked her new hairstyle until I realize it wasn't dye and she wasn't wearing clown face/body paint, and her trademark mallet. A better look for her, at least on combat missions, might have been a variation of her old outfit coupled with an army vest & helmet, like she was "playing soldier" or something (she and Joker dressed that way in the DC online games I think). I can so picture "General Harley" going into a cartoonish speech about strategy and tactics like she thinks she's in charge right before a mission & the others try & fail to ignore her, or she just keeps pulling out random Joker themed weapons from her vest & the others keep wondering "where the hell does she get those things?" lol

#21 Posted by dementedtheclown (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@SiycoBat: She'd just not Harley, Harleys underrated and written badly. Shes a fun loving cutie, a girly girl who crushes hard on joker.

This Harley is just a borring ass Joker clone. Might as well have named her she-joker.

Anyone who knows anything, knows this new Harley is a shit excuse for a character, and was only made because of the success of the arkham games, and writers never knowing what to do with the real one.

Brian Azzarello's Harley, was a slut, a drug addict, and an interesting character, but she was STILL Harley. Harley has a distinct personality, when you change that your left with a completely different character.

#22 Posted by Skewer (325 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate the new one! They just ruined the character and what really made her special.

#23 Posted by 202122 (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

yes even more so of late

#24 Posted by Bogey (934 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the New 52 Harley. Never liked her in the cartoon series, only in the comics.

#25 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (5880 posts) - - Show Bio

@SiycoBat said:

The 1992 cartoony Harley was good of its time and her drama with Joker was okay back in that time before Mad Love came out but I cannot tolerate her being around the Joker if she's only gonna be abused and used by him. It's been proven that Joker only sees her as a toy in SS and there is no logical or sane point in having her around the Joker if romance was the deciding issue. It's not just with romance that held the character back, it's her constant co-dependence issues and role of being the punchline for other peoples' jokes. I'm gonna say it, the old Harley was weak-willed, dependent, had extremely low self-esteem and let her need to be in a relationship she has with one man define her entire existence and purpose.

Despite the superficial changes made to Harley's appearance, she was the same bubbly clown girl we know but upped her jokes and her self-esteem. She no longer sees herself as someone to be walked on and take unnecessary hits for. She's no longer a doormat and despite her affections for Deadshot and the surveillance on them both, it's clear that she expects herself to be treated like a human being with talents and dreams. But it seems like no one can get past her new redesigned appearance rather than the personality.

All I hear is complaints of how she's a slut (even though everyone keeps forgetting about her tryst with Jimmy Olsen in her own comic series and that she slept with her professor to get her psych degree pre-Flashpoint), weak (uh...I guess nobody has read SS#16 when she killed that Cobra lady with the electrical barb on her tail), how she's a female Joker (this, as much as I tried to get it, it still doesn't make much sense since Harley is more human than Joker regardless of the chemical bath and was proven in SS#15.)

Regardless of the hate she gets, I've truly grown to love this Harley because in a way, she has surpassed her old predecessor by finally getting the guts to leave Joker for good and gained some well-deserved self-esteem and independence of her own character.

You're a fool if you don't think DC will go back to Harley x Joker. I don't like it, not one bit, but it's a sad truth.

#26 Posted by PopRock123 (101 posts) - - Show Bio

I miss the old Harley.

#27 Edited by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: That's your opinion. Making money off of a relationship that is dragging Harley down as a character is just a total waste and reduces Harley to nothing more than a pretty accessory for a guy that treats her worse than dirt. I'd rather be an optimistic fool that continues to push for a stronger and independent Harley than a pessimistic one that just gives up.

#28 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (5880 posts) - - Show Bio

@SiycoBat:

I like the support...Hope it's not a waste

#29 Edited by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@dementedtheclown said:

@SiycoBat: She'd just not Harley, Harleys underrated and written badly. Shes a fun loving cutie, a girly girl who crushes hard on joker.

This Harley is just a borring ass Joker clone. Might as well have named her she-joker.

Anyone who knows anything, knows this new Harley is a shit excuse for a character, and was only made because of the success of the arkham games, and writers never knowing what to do with the real one.

Brian Azzarello's Harley, was a slut, a drug addict, and an interesting character, but she was STILL Harley. Harley has a distinct personality, when you change that your left with a completely different character.

Brian Azzarello's Harley?

Uh...you do realize that she had no lines and no personality in that novel, right? She was pretty much the silent moll that followed Joker's orders and had zero depth.

Suicide Squad Harley had a lot more depth and personality than Azzarello's Harley that pretty much just stood by in the sidelines looking pretty most of the time.

By your logic from the example you made to me, the true Harley is the one that dresses up in a jester costume and allows herself to be the Joker's arm candy.

And you know, you're right. It was because of the success of the Arkham games, that decided Harley's redesign in the reboot but you have to consider what triggered the designs of the Arkham games too. As far as I can remember, I always saw fans making fanart of Harley that deviated from Harley's original costume into more modern variations, whether conservative or skimpy, depending on the trends of the time, especially the time when The Dark Knight movie came out in 2008 and people began to experiment on a TDK version of Harley. Now that I think about it, I think that the idea of a more slutty Harley came right from the Brian Azzarello's novel which came out in that same year.

The reasons why Harley was hard to write about in the comics was because Harley's cartoony version did not fit the darker, more serious and more violent atmosphere of the comics. I've even heard people say long ago that Harley should have stayed in the cartoons and out of the comics and before Harley even made it into the comics, people were agreeing that Harley and Joker were able to having something in the cartoons but argued that there was no way that Harley can handle the comic Joker's brand of crazy and maintain a "relationship" with him. Another thing that was a problem was trying to keep the comics Joker in the Bruce Timm box of being Harley's on-and-off boyfriend without compromising Joker's character of being a dangerous and psychopathic villain. Needless to say, it didn't work out which is why Joker and Harley were broken up in 2007 The Clown at Midnight so to experiment with how to keep Harley in the comics and make her into a stronger person which the cartoons didn't really give the chance for.

I get that you hate SS Harley but if you're gonna try to find a version to make your point, you were better off sticking with the cartoon version.

#30 Posted by dementedtheclown (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@SiycoBat: I think Harley and Joker work in comics, Joker has split personality disorder. One of those personalities enjoys having Harley around.

#31 Posted by shackle (215 posts) - - Show Bio

Old Harley was literally a joke. She wasn't even a sidekick, she was more of a prop. Good riddance, old Harley.

#32 Posted by bakhshwain (1 posts) - - Show Bio

i don't have a problem with the new harley's outfit.... but i don't like her new personality.... where is the harley that i know??... the cute and funny harley.

harley is not a real criminal... she only did all that because she's in love with the joker... and she's doing what the joker wants... if the joker wanted to be a criminal... she could be a criminal too.... if the joker wanted to have a normal life.... she would have a normal life too.... if the joker became a crime fighter... she would be a crime fighter too.... where ever the joker goes... she goes with him.... that's how much harley loves the joker.

the new harley is different.... she became a slut.... don't get me wrong... i always wanted harley to leave the joker.... and i always wanted her to be happy.... but getting in a relationship with deadshot??... it's like getting from a cage to another.... it's so out of her character.

every time i see deadshot kissing harley.... my anger and grudge makes me hate the whole SS series.

i hate to see the cute harley became a slut.... and bitching around with another random villains.

#33 Posted by batmannflash (6192 posts) - - Show Bio

I still like Harley in the New 52. But she's not as awesome anymore. Pre 52 Harley was really cute and always made me laugh. She had a sort of "innocence" and you felt for her because she hopelessly loved the Joker.

#34 Posted by flazam (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

No

#35 Edited by Herokiller12344 (991 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course someone does, but personally I'd feel better if DC didn't try and push this idea that everyone has to be slutty.

#36 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (5880 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

DC could have broken away from Joker and given her greater self-esteem without ruining her character. Her history has been destroyed, her outfit has been cast aside (often literally), her personality is gone. Feel free to like the new Harley as a different character, but to say she's better is absurd. She's not as funny, and she's in no way cute. If I could read a comic with old Harley without going "awww" at least once, something was wrong. This new one instills absolutely no sympathy, relateability, or care. She's just another villain. I have never called her slutty (even if Deadshot is gross, which makes her gross too as she now has like 3 STD's), I saw the female Joker thing but it is less prevalent now. Still, she is a different character. Not in any way an improved version of the real Harley Quinn.

I tried to like the Deadshot/Harley thing, as I LOVE both characters...But it doesn't work. Need I remind you, Deadshot has tried to KILL Harley in the past! Not to mention, they always seemed more like friends with benefits in these series. They don't have many traits that make them compatible as lovers. The only person I want to see with Harley (From the DC Universe) is Jason Todd or The Creeper. I feel like the new Harley is ONLY improved in the fact that she's not an extension of the Joker (Which is still something which I don't feel you're giving enough respect for.)

#37 Posted by QueenCorp15 (1022 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope rather have old harley back

#40 Posted by Riot_Sqrrl (262 posts) - - Show Bio

I want the entire pre-52 DCU back.

#41 Posted by cameron83 (6696 posts) - - Show Bio

I want the entire pre-52 DCU back.

this

#42 Edited by modernww2fare (972 posts) - - Show Bio

Making her independent is one thing, but turning her into a whore is another:

Where's Harley? All I see is a prostitute with red and blue colors

#43 Posted by Dr_Harlequin (475 posts) - - Show Bio

@modernww2fare: One could counter argue: According to Mad Love, she seems to have slept with her psychology professor to get a good grade. How can you call New-52 Harley a whore compared with what they've done to Pre-flashpoint Harley's origin? In the DCAU, I believe they did it to give her the inexperience needed for Joker to manipulate her into loving him. Add some credibility. So I can see what they did in the aspect of storytelling.

I don't think either are whores, though. But with what some writers have done with her, some peeps will think that.

And yes, after pretty much 3 years and said countless times, the design is garbage, schlock, trash. Put her next to the Joker with his nice purple suit, and you get what looks like a pimp and a hooker with a clown getup.

Why did they have to design it from Arkham City Harley? Why not try to redesign the one that's, y'know, iconic? But nope, we gotta get a redesign of a redesign. Hell, they even got idea's from her tattoo:

#44 Posted by SoopaCoop16 (33 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, I have no idea why you people are getting so worked up over her leaving the Joker (which was for the best) and that she has a (in my opinion better) new costume. If you were actually Harley Quinn fans you would accept her changes instead of wanting the old one back. She is still bubbly and comedic and even though her origin might be different, it still has the same basis to it: she fell in love with the Joker and became the Harley to his Joker. And you people keep regurgitating the fact that her and Deadshot had a fling. Who gives a &%*@! That doesn't mean that her and Deadshot are now in a steady and ongoing relationship! It was a one-time thing get over it people. And the whole thing about her outfit being "trashy" or "slutty" is a matter of opinion. It's just Harley being Harley and if you people can't accept that, then how dare you call yourselves HQ fans. And btw I didn't particularly like the pre-New 52 Harley because she was a complete ditz in a red-and-black suit and she was always getting abused. For once she grows a spine and develops as a character and you people want her to devolve back to a weak-willed moron who always got picked on. Personally, I believe that the New 52 is the best thing that could've happened to Harley. Remember,we are supposed to love Harley, no matter what, even if she gets an awesome wardrobe change, her own ongoing series (love it btw), and even if she gets away from her abuser.

#45 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (5880 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me put it this way: New 52 Harley Quinn is so awful, I have given up on the character until the next reboot. @joygirl and @wildvine, you should know I love the character, but after Helter Shelter, Harley is dead to me. DC doesn't care, so why should I? This is honestly tragic...

#46 Posted by wildvine (8419 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (5880 posts) - - Show Bio

@wildvine: Yes...Harley was a good friend...-_-

#48 Posted by PapiNacho (2364 posts) - - Show Bio

I like it despite my fondness for the cartoons because it makes sense. Harley in the cartoons changed herself to be more similar to the Joker in the cartoons, but the joker in the cartoons is not the Joker in the comics. I mean I want her to be independent too, but the story of the origin has to congruous, and if someone was to change to me more similar to a psychopathic clown, well New 52 Harley comes pretty close to that image. That said she hasn't lost all her bubbliness and that is also a good thing.

#49 Edited by wildvine (8419 posts) - - Show Bio

If you were actually Harley Quinn fans you would accept her changes instead of wanting the old one back.

Yes, let us all speak in absolutes!! You must all think one way or risk being different! How dare you "fans" dislike something. You must except whatever thing DC throws at you, or you aren't a true fan.

She is still bubbly and comedic and even though her origin might be different, it still has the same basis to it: she fell in love with the Joker and became the Harley to his Joker.

Indeed it is so! For we all know the totality of her character is being the second banana to the Joker. My god, its like DC didn't revamp her at all! My eyes suddenly see so clearly.

And you people keep regurgitating the fact that her and Deadshot had a fling. Who gives a &%*@! That doesn't mean that her and Deadshot are now in a steady and ongoing relationship! It was a one-time thing get over it people.

Yeah you people! A one time out of character semi-sexual interaction is nothing to get upset about. You people would probably get upset if Batman and Joker tongue kissed. Get over it people! One fling doesn't mean their going out. Jeeze.

And the whole thing about her outfit being "trashy" or "slutty" is a matter of opinion. It's just Harley being Harley and if you people can't accept that, then how dare you call yourselves HQ fans.

Yes! Its just a matter of opinion. And if you don't agree with the poster, then your opinion does not count. Obviously. Its totally "just Harley being Harley" she always dressed in barely concealing clothing. The outfit shift is hardly a shift at all in fact. Reiterated here for those of you that can't keep up. Accept whatever DC throws in your face or you will be denied the right to call yourself a fan. You have been warned.

And btw I didn't particularly like the pre-New 52 Harley because she was a complete ditz in a red-and-black suit and she was always getting abused. For once she grows a spine and develops as a character and you people want her to devolve back to a weak-willed moron who always got picked on.

Yes! Pre-52 Harley was a waste of ink and paper. Please ignore that previously it was stated that N52 Harley is basically the same as Pre-52 Harley save for her new origin. That was clearly a typo. Yeah! Always getting abused. Like that time she left the Joker and got her own series. Oh wait. That was also a typo. That is in no way is pertinent to this post and should be ignored. See, if that happened, then maybe she wasn't such a spineless doll to be tormented and abused. So clearly it didn't happen.

Personally, I believe that the New 52 is the best thing that could've happened to Harley. Remember,we are supposed to love Harley, no matter what, even if she gets an awesome wardrobe change, her own ongoing series (love it btw), and even if she gets away from her abuser.

Yes. Once again, you are to love the character no matter what. You are not allowed individual thoughts or opinions. If you attempt to form personal thoughts, you will have your right to be a fan revoked with extreme prejudice.

P.S.

Oh thank the gods of DC Harley finally got her own series.

#50 Edited by SupBatz (1701 posts) - - Show Bio
@soopacoop16 said:

Honestly, I have no idea why you people are getting so worked up over her leaving the Joker (which was for the best) and that she has a (in my opinion better) new costume. If you were actually Harley Quinn fans you would accept her changes instead of wanting the old one back. She is still bubbly and comedic and even though her origin might be different, it still has the same basis to it: she fell in love with the Joker and became the Harley to his Joker. And you people keep regurgitating the fact that her and Deadshot had a fling. Who gives a &%*@! That doesn't mean that her and Deadshot are now in a steady and ongoing relationship! It was a one-time thing get over it people. And the whole thing about her outfit being "trashy" or "slutty" is a matter of opinion. It's just Harley being Harley and if you people can't accept that, then how dare you call yourselves HQ fans. And btw I didn't particularly like the pre-New 52 Harley because she was a complete ditz in a red-and-black suit and she was always getting abused. For once she grows a spine and develops as a character and you people want her to devolve back to a weak-willed moron who always got picked on. Personally, I believe that the New 52 is the best thing that could've happened to Harley. Remember,we are supposed to love Harley, no matter what, even if she gets an awesome wardrobe change, her own ongoing series (love it btw), and even if she gets away from her abuser.

My response: http://www.comicvine.com/harley-quinn/4005-1696/forums/harley-quinn-a-comparative-study-of-modern-comics-1522333/#15

@spideyivydaredevilfan26 said:

Let me put it this way: New 52 Harley Quinn is so awful, I have given up on the character until the next reboot. @joygirl and @wildvine, you should know I love the character, but after Helter Shelter, Harley is dead to me. DC doesn't care, so why should I? This is honestly tragic...

I was on the fence about whether to buy Helter Shelter - the first two issues did not speak to me. Helter Shelter has the same issue, you'd say?

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