Discussion time! Harley Quinn's new origin!

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#1 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok guys. Now that the origin is finally complete. Let's talk about the origin.

To me, I thought the origin was a little rushed when it came to focusing on Harley's past but the origin showed a series of triggers that had everything to do with Harley snapping and going to the Joker.

Harleen is now presented as a good model student originated from NYC in the past whose been awarded honors, scholarships, the whole nine yards. She has also admitted that she has been a series of relationships possibly before the Joker came into her life so she is no stranger when it comes to love.

This Harleen is very different to the old Harleen in a lot of ways as she is very assertive and will not be afraid to defend herself if needed but also very professional and attempts to keep it strictly that way.

However, this is where those attempts get pushed to the edge.

Joker somehow gets his hands on Harleen Quinzel's profile and background and starts to really push her buttons, especially when it comes to a trauma that happened in her early life with her father's death at the hands of a corrupt wealthy business man who managed to pull a string of connections to be able to get away with murder and with Harleen's resentment and sorrow left to grow against the injustice. Joker makes the first attempt to win over Harleen's loyalty by giving her the bloody,diamond-encrusted ring-clad finger of the wealthy man in the assumption that Joker killed him. Whether this man is really dead or not, it is not yet known but Harleen seems convinced that he killed him and seemed grateful that he did the deed even if she looked like she was trying to hold in her emotions as she was crying.

As the story goes on, it is shown that she has admitted her personal feelings about Joker towards her supervisor and needlessly to say, she wasn't pleased that she was starting to like the Joker. During the argument, Harleen notices fallen papers on the floor which she recognized as her research papers on the Joker. She then figures out that her supervisor was stealing her research despite how harshly her supervisor has treated her during her employment in Arkham and this is the straw that breaks the camel's back with Harleen as she snaps violently and then frees the Joker out of an assumed gratitude for him and even agrees to take the Joker's invitation to come with him somewhere.

When they get there, that's when things start to get really horrific for Harleen as she finally realizes what she has done and started to have second thoughts about being with the Joker. As she voiced her want of leaving, Joker throws her into a vat of chemicals and watched her in merry glee as she screamed and begged for help as she eventually drowns. After he checks to see the remains of his next victim, he is in shock to see her still alive only with two-toned hair and bleached skin with a mental state as unstable as his own. As Harleen takes in the new sensation of her new form, Joker amusingly gives her a hand to pull her out of the vat only to be forced down into a kiss by the now lovestruck and newly dubbed Harley Quinn.

IMO, it's better than Mad Love because we finally see what factors were responsible for Harley going crazy but with the chemical vat as a way to reinforce her loyalty to him and aid him in causing chaos in Gotham.

#2 Posted by entropy_aegis (14219 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed,Harley is finally a sensible character.I dont care what people say but DCNU Harley>>>>>old Harley and I despise DCNU.

#3 Posted by LadyHarley (50 posts) - - Show Bio

I like it better. But seriously, if they kill her off in suicide squad, I'm reading not reading it anymore. She's the only reason I buy it. And the art has been kinda sucky the last 2 issues.

#4 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

Did Mad Love go into more detail over how Harley fell for Joker in the comics? Because it was rushed as hell in the show.

#5 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

It has his good points and bad ones, it makes more sense in some parts.

The main problem that i have is that Harley is now the Jokerette and the fact that DC is using, the thing on her blood is making her mad thing that some times use with the Joker.

#6 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123: I have the Mad Love issue but I'm gonna have to read it again to further compare but I'm pretty sure that Harley's only factors were turning to crime and working for the Joker were simply developing a crush on him on the first meeting, hearing about his fake sob stories, and seeing Joker get dragged off into his cell after Batman finally caught him. To be honest with you, I think these factors sound a little....damn the word is on the tip of my tongue.....superficial, yeah i think it's the closest I can describe right now.

#7 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000 said:

It has his good points and bad ones, it makes more sense in some parts.

The main problem that i have is that Harley is now the Jokerette and the fact that DC is using, the thing on her blood is making her mad thing that some times use with the Joker.

That last part I had trouble understanding. ^_^;

Would you be kind enough to make it a bit clearer please? I wanna know where you're coming from so we can be on the same page.

#8 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@SiycoBat: DC many times has used the toxic blood, to explain hat The Joker acts like a killer becuase, hi toxic blood made him a crazy guy.

Is the he haves something in his blood, he is a nice guy without that thing, like Hulk.

#9 Posted by Joygirl (18488 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like I would do best to just repost what I said on the other thread that cropped up after SS#7, rather than just spew out the exact same things in marginally different words.

Old Harley and New Harley really aren't as different as a lot of people think.

-Both are crazy. New Harley is significantly more deranged than Old Harley, but they're still both crazy.

-Both love Joker. Old Harley a bit more.

-Both are funny, though while Old Harley was more of a... well, harlequin, or jester, or buffoon, or what have you, New Harley impersonates the more classic "evil clown" persona.

-Both are excessively immature. Saying that new Harley acts like a kid and old Harley doesn't is rather blind. Harley has always acted like a ditzy 13 year old goofball.

New Harley has differences, yes. She's darker, crazier, clearly more badass, and doesn't dress quite as... er... conservatively. She also seems to be more seriously twisted, as her conversation with Deadshot at the end of #7 suggests.

I was a big fan of the old Mad Love, but we all have to accept new Harley for what she is -- she's still a great character, even if she isn't the same. I've been following Suicide Squad and Detective Comics, and out of all of them, the parts that impressed me most have been Harley. She's still hilarious, and as she shows in 6 and especially 7, she's a lot more formidable than she used to be, which I love. A character can be funny without being a joke. :P

Also, note that new Harley is SMARTER than old Harley, which I also love. She didn't sleep her way through med school, but actually passed with flying colors. But no amount of intellect can protect against the sick machinations of the one and only Clown Prince of Crime.

I've said my piece. >.>

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#10 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

I like it.

#11 Posted by RogueOracle (242 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the origin, and the chemicals especially which explains her look (I like when things tie in neatly). I've gotten used to the costume but as for the treatment? If they kill her off I will go ballistic. She's a little more nuttier. I wish the Suicide Squad would start acting like a team, I know it's the Suicide Squad but it lacks a team dynamic with its ever changing roster.

#12 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm in total agreement with you guys that I hope she won't kill her off but I doubt it since Harley appears on the covers of #8 and #10 so I doubt she will leave Suicide Squad.

#13 Posted by Joygirl (18488 posts) - - Show Bio

Harley is the squad's bread and butter, and there's no way they'll kill her off within seven issues of the new DC. :P PLUS! If Batman has it's old continuity, then Harley has her Ivy-juice and a healing factor. It would be very easy for her to stand up an hour or so later, fully healed and needing to bash some Deadshot.

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#14 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read it but just reading your summary makes me feel eh. So she's not Harley Quinn anymore, she's just a female Joker?

#15 Posted by Joygirl (18488 posts) - - Show Bio

She's Jokerette only in the sense that she fell into chemicals that made her hair and skin funny, and she went crazy. She's still Harley, and after 20 or so minutes people will get over that just like they all got over her new outfit.

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#16 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

Did Mad Love go into more detail over how Harley fell for Joker in the comics? Because it was rushed as hell in the show.

Not how, it just skipped right over that part actually.

#17 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

Did Mad Love go into more detail over how Harley fell for Joker in the comics? Because it was rushed as hell in the show.

Not how, it just skipped right over that part actually.

So, exactly like the show, then.

Ugh.

#18 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

@ReVamp said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

Did Mad Love go into more detail over how Harley fell for Joker in the comics? Because it was rushed as hell in the show.

Not how, it just skipped right over that part actually.

So, exactly like the show, then.

Ugh.

If I can slightly spoil something:

It started with the fact she had a crush on the Joker being presented outright.

#19 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

What I don't like about it is HOW and WHY she went crazy. The whole flipping out thing because her boss is stealing her research is a bit far fetched. Lots of people have crappy bosses, not to mention that you would think the Boss would have handled Harley Quinn a little more delicately knowing she was falling for a sociopath. Then the whole being set free by the toxic chemicals? I can understand how it changes her appearance, but how does it change her personality?

#20 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. Harley's origin actually makes sense now.

#21 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonkeyToe: I'm gonna have to politely disagree. I think to get angry over stolen work is justified when your boss acts outside ethical and moral means and it makes sense for Harley to react so violently when she was already losing her mental stability and was trying so hard to prove herself to her boss, who already has zero respect for her. Think about it, why would she tell, of all people, her boss (who doesn't give a damn about her) that she has a crush on the Joker? Don't you think it would be like a career suicide for her to do that?

I think her personality change can be explained with Sigmund Freud's structural model of the psyche. It involves the Id, the primal and instinctive part of our psyche, the Ego, the more grounded and organized part of our psyche, and the Super-Ego, the master psyche that is responsible for our ability to reason and to differentiate what is right and wrong. Think of Harleen, as the Ego while Harley is the Id. The combined factors of the chemicals and her life shattering before her eyes made the ego burn to ashes while making the Id, Harley take control. Harley can still reason and differentiate what is right and wrong but without the Ego, her reactions and emotions will always be at random and pretty much unpredictable. She risked everything for a man and she ended up getting nothing beneficial to her but more suffering and pain. I think these factors made Harley's mental state revert to the child-like mentality that she is known for to almost reduce the awareness of the grim reality her life has played out and to deliberately see life as fun and games to keep her spirits up and to be able to face the day without breaking down.

Sorry for the long rant, ^_^; I didn't expect talk this much about it but anyhow, this is only my opinion and observation of how Harley is so far and besides we've yet to see all the bells and whistles of this new Harley's mind.

#22 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Thanks for the clarification, Joygirl. :) I wouldn't have put it better myself.

#23 Posted by Joygirl (18488 posts) - - Show Bio

Sounds very smart... I will concur with the above assessment... mostly. Now that I think about it, new Harley doesn't seem as delusional. I pictured old Harley as skipping along, bopping people with her mallet, but in her mind they just fall down with funny hair and birds tweeting around their heads. She made things go boom and whatnot, but I think it was like a cartoon to her. New Harley seems very aware of what's happening, crushing things with her hammer, turning the gas on because she knew nobody wanted to burn alive. She slit that woman's throat, out of hatred -- it's hard to turn that kind of intimate murder into a game. So I think we should wait a little longer and see how new Harley turns out before we start to deconstruct her psyche.

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#24 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

@SiycoBat said:

@MonkeyToe: I'm gonna have to politely disagree. I think to get angry over stolen work is justified when your boss acts outside ethical and moral means and it makes sense for Harley to react so violently when she was already losing her mental stability and was trying so hard to prove herself to her boss, who already has zero respect for her. Think about it, why would she tell, of all people, her boss (who doesn't give a damn about her) that she has a crush on the Joker? Don't you think it would be like a career suicide for her to do that?

I think her personality change can be explained with Sigmund Freud's structural model of the psyche. It involves the Id, the primal and instinctive part of our psyche, the Ego, the more grounded and organized part of our psyche, and the Super-Ego, the master psyche that is responsible for our ability to reason and to differentiate what is right and wrong. Think of Harleen, as the Ego while Harley is the Id. The combined factors of the chemicals and her life shattering before her eyes made the ego burn to ashes while making the Id, Harley take control. Harley can still reason and differentiate what is right and wrong but without the Ego, her reactions and emotions will always be at random and pretty much unpredictable. She risked everything for a man and she ended up getting nothing beneficial to her but more suffering and pain. I think these factors made Harley's mental state revert to the child-like mentality that she is known for to almost reduce the awareness of the grim reality her life has played out and to deliberately see life as fun and games to keep her spirits up and to be able to face the day without breaking down.

Sorry for the long rant, ^_^; I didn't expect talk this much about it but anyhow, this is only my opinion and observation of how Harley is so far and besides we've yet to see all the bells and whistles of this new Harley's mind.

I'm going to have to do more research on what effects treating psycho or sociopaths has on a psychiatrist, but considering they have to attend 8 years of Med School, I would expect that they would A) be better guarded against falling for a psychopath B) Be considered of needing psychiatric help of their own if they were to reveal a crush on a psychopath. It's like a person going to a Shrink and saying, "I feel like killing myself" only to have the shrink shrug and say, "Good cause you were a waste of space anyway." Do you see the problem I'm having here. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I'm saying another more experienced psychiatrist should be able to see the signs and be able to offer support and help to Harleen rather than belittling and berating someone they would recognize had a fragile mental state as it were.

As for Harley's persona after the chemical bath... Nothing about it can be likened to 'child-like innocence.' In the 7 issues of the comic she's tried to bone Deadshot twice and the Joker at least once that we know of. I could understand if she were suffering from PTSD or something, but that doesn't seem to be the case. One instance she is Dr Harleen and wanting to go home, and the next she has shed her inhibitions and wants to pounce the Joker's bone.

#25 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Right. Besides, I love seeing this new Harley in action so far so waiting won't hurt much. XD

And I agree with you on your above statement on how old Harley saw things in a matter of a cartoon where nobody really dies. It makes sense for her to be naive and ignorant to adult subjects like death and deception but act so excited and chipper when it comes to fighting, doing almost impossible stunts and basically beating people up with dangerous weapons. I think this idea was also coined in the Harley Quinn series as in one issue, the some of the art panels took a cartoony look when it was in Harley's point of view but switched back to the original style when it was in the reader's view and saw what was really going on in Harley's mind when she killed.

#26 Posted by RoboShark (1208 posts) - - Show Bio

Read new Suicide Squad last night. Nothing bothered me about the origin.

#27 Posted by Joygirl (18488 posts) - - Show Bio

@SiycoBat: Wow... I never thought of that. I just figured that it was Terry Dodson throwing his wife (Rachel Dodson) a bone by letting her do a few pages every once in a while. The art switch kinda bothered me (because obviously Rachel isn't as good) but now when I then about it... hm... dammit, now I'll have to re-read Preludes and Knock Knock Jokes! D:

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#28 Posted by SiycoBat (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonkeyToe: I never said that it was innocence on Harley's part, only that she seemed to think on a child-like level, nothing more. I can understand where you are coming from on this but not all professionals are gonna have the correct mentality or the kindness like their jobs require them too. There is such a thing as a bad doctor, just like there is such as thing like a bad baseball player or a bad singer or a bad politician. Just because the job seems holy and full of responsibility doesn't mean it's incapable of having corruption.

#29 Posted by The Poet (8291 posts) - - Show Bio

interesting...

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#30 Posted by MonkeyToe (386 posts) - - Show Bio

I can accept that you have a different opinion than me, but I still don't agree. To me it has little to do with being a caring professional. Psychiatrists know that dealing with psychopaths is dangerous. Likewise they would know that someone who is developing feelings for a psychopath is teetering on the verge of a psychiatric disorder of their own. That means they are likewise dangerous. It doesn't take an expert herpetologist to know that when a Cobra rears its hooded head at you or when a rattle snake begins shaking its tail in warning, it's probably not a good time to start a slap fight with it. It goes beyond being caring or willing to help Harley, the head psychiatrist should have known that she was facing a dangerous human being and should have treated the situation as such.

And maybe the scene could have still worked IF the writers had established either that A) The head psych was a real b***** to work for or B) Harley was already a thinly held together psychopath herself. I just don't feel like they established either of those points effectively.

Secondly, what I was trying to say was that if Harley were thinking on a 'child-like' level, then she wouldn't be trying to bone every guy that she got alone time with. That is NOT child-like thinking because children have yet to go through puberty and don't think about sex that way.

#31 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

She's Jokerette only in the sense that she fell into chemicals that made her hair and skin funny, and she went crazy. She's still Harley, and after 20 or so minutes people will get over that just like they all got over her new outfit.

I, uh, haven't gotten over the outfit. Or the "darker, grittier, 90s-ier" attitude. And this sounds like a big shift in motivations from complex psychosis to just "fell in some chemicals and is now crazy." Very ho-hum.

I miss the charming, delightfully deluded, and absolutely unique classic Harley.

Edit: Again, I have not read the issue, so keep that in mind.

#32 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Joygirl said:

She's Jokerette only in the sense that she fell into chemicals that made her hair and skin funny, and she went crazy. She's still Harley, and after 20 or so minutes people will get over that just like they all got over her new outfit.

I, uh, haven't gotten over the outfit. Or the "darker, grittier, 90s-ier" attitude. And this sounds like a big shift in motivations from complex psychosis to just "fell in some chemicals and is now crazy." Very ho-hum.

I miss the charming, delightfully deluded, and absolutely unique classic Harley.

Edit: Again, I have not read the issue, so keep that in mind.

My whole problem is that they changed her to make her more like the Joker.

I mean in they try to make her darker in the Birds of Pray show, still they dont changer that much, yeah my only problem is how much of The Joker they decide to put on Harl.

Why they didnt decide to go with some time of variation of the Arkhamverse Harley.

Also many of the Batvillain redesign are just so damn horrible.

#33 Posted by Arganadar (1 posts) - - Show Bio

First of all, I don't write regularly in forums, but I liked how discussions are handled here so I'll give it a shot. Somewhere I read about dead threads and bringing them back to life as a bad thing, and this topic is a bit old so I don't know if it is a dead thread. I don't want to be rude, so if that is what I'm doing here I apologise.

I think the new origin story for Harley is bad because I fell it took away her decision in the matter. In Mad Love (I don't know if this is a spoiler, it's the secuence of events when she went completily crazy) she decides that the Joker needs her help and that Batman is just a violent mad man. Then she gets a costume and attacks the asylum, fighting the guards. (End spoiler?)

She decided to free the Joker knowing he was a psychotic killer. In the new origin, she is dragged all the way through the transformation. Not once she made a decision, she just freed the Joker because she was already a criminal, so it couldn't be worse. In the end, she started with the self doubt, but at this point it's weird she had went that far.

One of the things I love about Harley is that she acts out of love and she respects love. In Mad Love she is the knight in shinning armor rescuing her prince (at least in her head). In Suicide Squad she was a victim, she was controled by everyone around her (The Joker, her boss). It's weird to me how in both stories she finishes school with awesome grades (ignore the means for a second), and I suppose she was an athlete in new the story, too, so she wasn't a slacker when it came to having a bright future, but it goes out of the window in a second and without warning in the new origin.

#34 Edited by SupBatz (1690 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm suprised at how many people on this thread really like the new origin and seem to have a lot of beefs with the old one.

Like when comparing any two stories, both have their strong and weak points. I think this new origin started out strong. I liked the initial interaction between Joker and Harley. Even the part with the "fat cat"'s finger seemed to fit in very well with proving how twisted the Joker is and how that almost sort of appealed to Harley.

My main complaint is that Harley doesn't even seem to fall in love with the Joker in her new origin. The best thing about Mad Love, to me, was that Harley didn't turn into a villain because she was angry or twisted but because she was in love. She empathized for the Joker because of his (fake) story of being abused as a child. He painted Batman as a villain and himself as a victim and legitimized his actions as the Clown Prince of Crime.

This new origin pretty much neglected the fact that she is supposed to fall in love with the Joker and have that as her catalyst for turning into a villain.

That being said, certain aspects of the new origin are intriguing. I don't mind that she is more assertive and that she found that her boss was stealing her work. Hell, I'm not even turned off by the chemical bath (though admittedly, I wish they had not done that). My main complaint about this new Harley is that she is not in love any more - I mean, in one issue (either 4 or 6) of Suicide Squad she nearly did the nasty with Deadshot. That is not the Harley I know.

And I respectfully disagree with the vast number of people on this thread who say that is new origin "finally makes Harley make sense". She's always made sense - perhaps she made even more sense prior to the new 52.

#35 Posted by neale7 (124 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with SupBatz above. This new Harley doesn't make any more sense at all. She doesn't need to be thrown in chemicals to look like joker or made as insane as him so she makes sense. She made sense because she fell deeply for the joker. It's one of things called human feelings and emotion, it happens. This isn't harley, she'd have never done the crap with deadshot because of how obsessed and in love she is with joker. She's just a female joker now, not the harley quinn we grew up with.

If i'm being honest, DC has really made LOTS of bad decisions with this new52. Yeah its brought in new readers, but its alienated loyal fans who have grown up with these characters for years. Same with Tim Drake how apparently he was now never robin and is his new origin was that he was almost an olympian, instead of just being a normal kid who was trained by batman. DC can't even give us a timeline as they know they can't explain how most of the stories they say are still in existence work in the timeline, especially where batman is concerned and how Tim was now never robin, yet during the new 52 timeline at the start its been mentioned twice that he was robin. They need proper good editors who have the balls to say, "no, change this. It just doesn’t make sense".

I wonder what the next reboot will bring in 2022 once they've done exactly the same and messed everything up because they don't have a proper idea fully fleshed out, but they just run with it.

#36 Posted by TheCowman (461 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

She's Jokerette only in the sense that she fell into chemicals that made her hair and skin funny, and she went crazy. She's still Harley, and after 20 or so minutes people will get over that just like they all got over her new outfit.

Actually, I'm STILL not over the new outfit. I'm being petty, I know, but all I see when I look at the new Harley is '90s comics.

"Clown hats aren't cool. Let's give her colored hair instead, cause that's more badass."

"Now she has knives and stuff, cause mallets and joke weapons are for sissies."

"And then let's put her in a skimpy corset cause.... cause BOOBS!!!"

I agree that she's more in line with the "evil clown" archetype now, but that's part of why I'm disappointed. "Evil clowns" aren't interesting. They've been done before and better. Harley was always different than that type of character. I liked that out of costume she looked normal and adorable. It made it all the more intriguing whenever they'd peek under the hood and remind you that, yeah, this chick's pretty friggin' nuts.

The new Harley just seems too much like every other "scary clown" character out there. And that's one of the saddest things I can think of for such a unique and interesting character.

#37 Posted by Joygirl (18488 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCowman: You're right. I've tried to defend new Harley because I was clinging to my love for her but this new Harley is not very good. I'm hoping something better will happen with her soon. I have my fingers crossed that when this massive Joker event finally reaches SS (which it's confirmed that it will), something -- anything -- will happen to get Harley off the team and under a better writer, who can redesign her a bit and make her fun like she was.

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#38 Edited by Dr_Harlequin (475 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm so late, but I was passing by and thought instead of making another thread, we could talk of Harley's newest origin here. Well, really just an updated one in Detective Comic 23.2. So anyway...Year long bump, for a two month old comic:

So the things that turned Dr. Harleen Quinzel into Harley Quinn was one kiss...from Joker. In this issue, she tells us that she was raised to love order (which I don't get because her family seems to be chaotic in those two panels) and the person who let her go free was Joker.

And just like the Suicide Squad Harl, this comic shows her Harley/Harleen duality. To me this makes me feel like she fell in love with Two-Face, not Joker. >.> And still, like the Adam Glass origin, the madness -> love instead of vice versa.

And then her outfit got an origin of its own too...I don't wanna talk about it. I really want to forget about this issue, but I can't because now it's friggin canon. DC can I have another retcon, please?

What did you guys think about it?

#39 Edited by Marionettegeist (1912 posts) - - Show Bio

@dr_harlequin: She dyed her hair two-toned and the Joker randomly kissed her causing her to instantly fall in love with him and break him out of the Asylum after which he pushed her in some of the world's safest deadly acid 'cause why not? (I know that's just a holdover from the other terrible new origin, but still.) She killed a bunch of children for no reason with exploding game-boys and stole her costume from the body of a prostitute she killed. How did this story even get past the editors? That doesn't even sound good on paper, much less in execution. So yeah, awful.

#40 Edited by Dr_Harlequin (475 posts) - - Show Bio

It's like the reason she committed mass murder on the anniversary of 9/11 was to remind us that she's still a villain? Was it to pump her up and make her look like a rock star as she's standing there with explosion in the background? Or to show us what she would do for the Joker? Doesn't matter what it was, it was 'tupid.

#41 Edited by BR_Havoc (1269 posts) - - Show Bio

@dr_harlequin: I thought it was the worst villains month comic. Matt Kindt blew it big time making a crappy origin people hated the first time when Glass did it when worse.

#42 Edited by Dr_Harlequin (475 posts) - - Show Bio

@br_havoc: Yeah, I feel Glass' origin was better than this one, and that's saying a lot. It focused more on the hidden gem of Harley's origins (still did it badly, mind you).

Why do we need to focus on her clothes? Why make a joke about it canon? In Mad Love, it was explained subtly, she robbed a costume store! You're telling me someone who has been confirmed to have a genius IQ can't think of a better way? Is it her psychosis that requires her to terrorize people for her outfit? And why did we have to get an obligatory flashback of how bad her childhood was!? And if we're talking about explaining origins, did they ever tell us how she first got into Belle Reeve?! Why does the only pay off to this comic seem to be the stupid clothing origin and her Joker+Two-Face syndrome?! Wth is going ON?!

No, I'm kidding, I'm not actually freaking out about this. But I'm curious.

#43 Posted by BR_Havoc (1269 posts) - - Show Bio

@dr_harlequin: Big issue is they use lazy story telling like saying she was always crazy and she loved chaos that is why it took all of 5 mins before she broke Joker free. It was a terrible new origin and I hope her solo series stays as far away from this terrible no humor Harley. Heck I have read the two issues of Suicide Squad since that villain month issue they have not touched on it and Kindt is fine having that book be average something Kot did not.

#44 Posted by leah8954 (33 posts) - - Show Bio

@dr_harlequin: Also, her Glass origins doesn't add up with the Kindt one. In the Adam Glass one, Harleen loved her father and he was killed by a drunk driver, in to which Joker kills that drunk driver for her. In the Kindt one, her dad verbally abused her and always tried to hold her down. It's inconsistent tiny details like this that make me wish they would of left her origin alone, or at least gotten a capable writer to take it on.

#45 Edited by Dr_Harlequin (475 posts) - - Show Bio

@leah8954: Yup, Kindt retconned her relationship with her father in favor for that obligatory "bad childhood" mumbo-jumbo that way too many characters had in their own villains month issue. The Glass origin was better than what Kindt gave us.

#46 Posted by SupBatz (1690 posts) - - Show Bio

@leah8954: Yup, Kindt retconned her relationship with her father in favor for that obligatory "bad childhood" mumbo-jumbo that way too many characters had in their own villains month issue. The Glass origin was better than what Kindt gave us.

Original Origin > Batman: Arkham Origins origin > No origin at all >>> Glass origin > Kindt origin.

#47 Edited by Dr_Harlequin (475 posts) - - Show Bio

@supbatz: Ah, right you are.

And you've once again reminded me she has another newer new origin! But we don't see her turn to Harley yet. The only thing we get is a smile as a foreshadow at the end of what's to come.

#48 Posted by Marionettegeist (1912 posts) - - Show Bio

@supbatz said:

@dr_harlequin said:

@leah8954: Yup, Kindt retconned her relationship with her father in favor for that obligatory "bad childhood" mumbo-jumbo that way too many characters had in their own villains month issue. The Glass origin was better than what Kindt gave us.

Original Origin > Batman: Arkham Origins origin > No origin at all >>> Glass origin > Kindt origin.

Yep.

#49 Posted by SupBatz (1690 posts) - - Show Bio

@supbatz: Ah, right you are.

And you've once again reminded me she has another newer new origin! But we don't see her turn to Harley yet. The only thing we get is a smile as a foreshadow at the end of what's to come.

True, we only saw about half of the story. But the foundation was set so I'd say it's close to an origin for her. And, lets face it, the execution of that therapy session between the Joker and Harley was rather brilliant.

#50 Edited by Dr_Harlequin (475 posts) - - Show Bio

@supbatz: Hell yeah! You know an origin is great if it gets you in the feels.

One change, scratch that two changes, that I'm kinda iffy about is that:

Harley goes from "Call me harley, everyone does" in Mad Love to "I don't have much friends." It was an emotional moment, but a person like Harley having no friends? I don't believe it. Wasn't she supposed to be like a normal person before she goes crazy, not someone who is hinted to already have some sort of problem? I also don't like how it took one session, one implicit discussion on his feelings is what made her lose it? >.>

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