DC are idiots, should've been Harley

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#1 Edited by dementedtheclown (747 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still kinda pissed they had to go and make Green Lantern gay, just to compete with Marvels gay wedding.

What a slap in the face to fans, and the creators of the character.

Anyone who believes it's okay to change a well known characters sex, race, sexual preference, or personality is an idiot. Even eye / hair color should be left alone.

Moving on

Why didn't they just make Harley Bi? and Ivy gay (if she isnt widely accepted as such already)

Makes more sense, and would open up Harley to having better Harley/Ivy stories via Thelma & Louise, and this could've prevented the disaster that is new 52 Harley.Cause like New Coke, New Harley just doesn't taste as it should.

I don't know why writers always had such a hard time writing Harley, she was connected to two of DC's most famous villains.

She's gotten closer to Joker then anyone ever has, and there could've been a whole arch of her seeing the Joker no one else sees.Seeing deeper into the Joker, she may play dumb, but she really just uses her ditsyness to her own advantage.

Hell then while Jokers off d*cking around, leaving Harley as he often does she could've developed feeling for Ivy, then you get a love triangle.

Harley would always return to Joker, cause she likes the abuse, Ivy would get pissed more and more, but she understands Harley.

That alone could've made a lot of interesting stories for her. Hell she could've even ended up retiring and finally writing her tell-all book about the Joker,

probably pissing the Joker off enough to mess her sh*t up, and kill her, prompting bad blood between Joker and Ivy, starting some kind of war between them.

Just the lazy writers have to take easy ways out and ruin characters, while calling it "creative changes" and "character evolution"

I call it if you cant write Harley dont try. Not remake her into a clone of Joker... cause anyone can write Joker who has Multiple Personality Disorder.

#2 Posted by God_Spawn (37319 posts) - - Show Bio

@dementedtheclown: 1st warning for a ton of swearing. Censor it next time.

Moderator
#3 Posted by ghostsuck (129 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: never

#4 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

It always bothers me when a writer can't handle a character well... you can always tell when the writer just doesn't really "get" the character they're writing... Harley Quinn has fallen victim to this on more than one occasion. (Another prime example is Joseph Gordon Jr.'s portrayal by Gail Simone, it just doesn't feel like the character that Scott Snyder so meticulously crafted)

#5 Edited by akbogert (3194 posts) - - Show Bio

You have some good points, in between the swears and suggesting killing Harley to fuel a fight between Joker and Ivy.

The only reason I'm happy to have not read any pre-New 52 Harley is because that would just make how awful she is right now a lot harder to deal with.

#6 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14587 posts) - - Show Bio

#7 Posted by akbogert (3194 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: What have you done?! :P

#8 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14587 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: I just called the most diabolical CV user who has a thing for Harley Quinn and will either side with you or release hell. Either way she is needed in this thread.

#9 Posted by akbogert (3194 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: Oh, I'm sure she'd have found it eventually. But the summoning...that's right dangerous.

#10 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14587 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: She won't touch me because I am her Master's King.

#11 Posted by TheMadMarvel (45 posts) - - Show Bio

This is the second clown who wanted Harley dead this year.

Harley said to Deadshot in Suicide Squad 16 "I'm done with the likes of you, you don't deserve me, I'm too good for you and him". Him being the Joker.

I don't like her new 52 look but I do like her new confidence.

#12 Posted by Joygirl (18526 posts) - - Show Bio

Harley Quinn were confirmed to have had a sexual relationship with Paul Dini. They don't have to make her bi because she already is. /thread

#13 Posted by Joygirl (18526 posts) - - Show Bio

Harley Quinn were confirmed to have had a sexual relationship by Paul Dini. They don't have to make her bi because she already is. /thread

#14 Edited by akbogert (3194 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Please tell me you mean "by" Paul Dini O_O

@Joygirl said:

Harley Quinn were confirmed to have had a sexual relationship by Paul Dini. They don't have to make her bi because she already is. /thread

Okay, phew. Dodged a bullet there.

#15 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12525 posts) - - Show Bio

so it cool to make Ivy gay bu its a slap in the face to Alan Scott's creator to make him gay? you just contradicted yourself.

#16 Posted by Joygirl (18526 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup, sorry about that, caught the typo and was like "nuuuu the horror", tried to edit it but it came out as a doublepost instead. CV sucks pretty bad on my phone, hehe.

#17 Posted by Joygirl (18526 posts) - - Show Bio

"HARLEY AND IVY WERE CONFIRMED" dammit that first post was all kinds of unintelligable.

#18 Edited by TheMadMarvel (45 posts) - - Show Bio

Paul Dini is female? The ugliest woman I've ever seen!

#19 Posted by Ravager4 (1627 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

"HARLEY AND IVY WERE CONFIRMED" dammit that first post was all kinds of unintelligable.

"Harley Quinn and Ivy were confirmed to have had a sexual relationship by Paul Dini. They don't have to make her bi because she already is. /thread"

fixed

#20 Posted by akbogert (3194 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the point is that Harley Quinn is already bisexual, and Ivy is either lesbian or bi. That's kind of already canon, and I don't know that anything in New 52 has specifically reversed that as of yet.

I agree that changing the known sexuality of a longstanding character is stupid. Maybe if there were a whole process the character went through with reevaluating orientation? But not just "oops, guy likes dudes now."

#21 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

I think the point is that Harley Quinn is already bisexual, and Ivy is either lesbian or bi. That's kind of already canon, and I don't know that anything in New 52 has specifically reversed that as of yet.

I agree that changing the known sexuality of a longstanding character is stupid. Maybe if there were a whole process the character went through with reevaluating orientation? But not just "oops, guy likes dudes now."

Exactly my thoughts on the matter.

#22 Posted by Catman9 (318 posts) - - Show Bio

So Harley's bisexuality has been resolved. But her relationship with Bud and Lou is still questionable...

#23 Posted by Joygirl (18526 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you, Rav.

#24 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

The only issue I really have with the whole gay Green Lantern thing is that it wipes a pre-existing gay character out of existence for the sake of having a more mainstream one. Which is bulls*** any way you cut it IMO.

#25 Posted by akbogert (3194 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

Thank you, Rav. <3 And actually at the moment it is safe to assume that Harley and Ivy EVER EVEN MEETING has been retconned. Joker being able to poison her proves that she never got Ivy's potion at the least, and she has never once mentioned or even alluded to knowing who Poison Ivy is.

Fair points. Perhaps what I ought to have said was I don't think the New 52 has ruled out the possibility of them having a relationship at some point -- i.e. ruled out them being bi.

#26 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12525 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

The only issue I really have with the whole gay Green Lantern thing is that it wipes a pre-existing gay character out of existence for the sake of having a more mainstream one. Which is bulls*** any way you cut it IMO.

somehow i think the de-aging has more to do with it than the change of sexual prefererence

#27 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

I think the point is that Harley Quinn is already bisexual, and Ivy is either lesbian or bi. That's kind of already canon, and I don't know that anything in New 52 has specifically reversed that as of yet.

I always assumed she was vegesexual. Huh.

#28 Posted by akbogert (3194 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith: Hah. Well, keep in mind that everything I know is either secondhand from other people or from synopses I've read (because her role in the Arkham games didn't really cover this ground. But I got the sense she was closer to being asexual, or at least to not really caring for men (though she does a wonderful job of making them think she's into them). But as has been said, she has had a confirmed relationship with at least one woman.

#29 Posted by TheCowman (461 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

I agree that changing the known sexuality of a longstanding character is stupid. Maybe if there were a whole process the character went through with reevaluating orientation? But not just "oops, guy likes dudes now."

Well, to be fair, the New 52 is pretty much an alternate/parallel reality. So they kinda have the excuse of "in this reality, Alan Scott was ALWAYS gay".

#30 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (12525 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

@JonSmith: Hah. Well, keep in mind that everything I know is either secondhand from other people or from synopses I've read (because her role in the Arkham games didn't really cover this ground. But I got the sense she was closer to being asexual, or at least to not really caring for men (though she does a wonderful job of making them think she's into them). But as has been said, she has had a confirmed relationship with at least one woman.

she was with Jason Woodrue before becoming Poison Ivy. She also had a bf during Gotham Ciy Sirens. Its also been said that she has a genuine attraction to Batman even though she mostly attempts to manipulate him.

#31 Posted by akbogert (3194 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCowman: I appreciate what you're saying. But on the list of characters who were done right by the reboot and ones done wrong by it, I think a change of this magnitude goes solidly in the "wrong" category. That's not a slight against homosexual characters, but I just don't agree with messing that much with a character's history, no matter what the change.

#32 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@Decoy Elite said:

The only issue I really have with the whole gay Green Lantern thing is that it wipes a pre-existing gay character out of existence for the sake of having a more mainstream one. Which is bulls*** any way you cut it IMO.

somehow i think the de-aging has more to do with it than the change of sexual prefererence

I meant that now he'll never exist. :P

Although I'm not exactly a fan of the de-aging either. Wish DC would make a book about the older versions of the JSA. >.>

#33 Posted by SUNMAN (7141 posts) - - Show Bio

@dementedtheclown: wait Hal Jordan is gay now?

#34 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6107 posts) - - Show Bio

@dementedtheclown said:

I'm still kinda pissed they had to go and make Green Lantern gay, just to compete with Marvels gay wedding.

What a slap in the face to fans, and the creators of the character.

Anyone who believes it's okay to change a well known characters sex, race, sexual preference, or personality is an idiot. Even eye / hair color should be left alone.

Moving on

Why didn't they just make Harley Bi? and Ivy gay (if she isnt widely accepted as such already)

Are you calling yourself an idiot then?

#35 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@dementedtheclown: Isn't it silly to gripe about them making a dramatic change to one character and say they should have made a dramatic change to another character instead?

If you're going to say they shouldn't make changes like that, your take should be universal...not that they just wronged you personally by picking the wrong one.

#36 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6107 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

"HARLEY AND IVY WERE CONFIRMED" dammit that first post was all kinds of unintelligable.

Do you have a link to where he confirms it?

#37 Posted by SupBatz (1691 posts) - - Show Bio

Harley and Ivy don't seem like the kind of girls who I would label "bi" or "gay". It is definitely conceivable that the two may have a relationship and that they may hold some sort of romantic feelings for one another. But something about placing the definitive labels on their sexualities doesn't sit right with me. Harley is basically the Joker's girl - no amount of developing her and changing her relationship will ever take her away from the Joker forever. And Ivy as basically created to be the woman no man can resist who is very prone to manipulating men through her sexuality. I can't see either character being romantically interested in other women aside for one another which makes calling them homosexual seem a bit off to me.

That being said, I definitely agree that so few writers seem to display the ability to write Harley. It's not too hard to get a handle on her personality but it feels like writers unfamiliar with her don't do any more research then "Oh, she's in love with the Joker and he abuses her." smh.

I think it'd make a great story one day for a sort of love triangle to develop between Harley and Ivy and the Joker. Of course, I don't see that happening anytime soon judging by the current status of their relationships (Joker and Harley are off, Harley and Ivy apparently have yet to meet) but I hope someday that somebody will be able to touch on that.

#38 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, Green Lantern's gay now? Like, the Green Lantern? Hal Jordan is gay?!

AHA. HAHA. He just realized this now?

#39 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12525 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

Wait, Green Lantern's gay now? Like, the Green Lantern? Hal Jordan is gay?!

AHA. HAHA. He just realized this now?

.@SUNMAN said:

@dementedtheclown: wait Hal Jordan is gay now?

Alan Scott not Hal Jordan

#40 Posted by fACEmelter88 (609 posts) - - Show Bio

Get over it

#41 Posted by BiMor (14 posts) - - Show Bio

@dementedtheclown: I can see some merits to what you are saying but I don't think you can call the writers lazy or even slate their decision. produce your own comics or fan fiction and if you get good responses then I will more readily accept what you have suggested but what I am mainly getting from your comment is that you want some Harley ivy hentai and i'm sure you can find some.

#42 Posted by dementedtheclown (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: Yes cause Alan Scott is Golden Age, and the original Green Lantern, and has already been establish as strait. Ivy has been bi/gay for awhile.

Im just saying why change characters when you've had gay/bi characters for years?

#43 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

so it cool to make Ivy gay bu its a slap in the face to Alan Scott's creator to make him gay? you just contradicted yourself.

QFT

#44 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (12525 posts) - - Show Bio

@dementedtheclown:

edit: i just realized i goofed. we were talking bout Ivy and i apologize but my point still stands

#45 Posted by dementedtheclown (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: Didnt she have a thing.... with swamp thing? Let's just call Ivy pansexual

#46 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12525 posts) - - Show Bio

@dementedtheclown said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt: Didnt she have a thing.... with swamp thing? Let's just call Ivy pansexual

not that i can recall, i know she was with Floronic Man and another male supervillain in the Gotham City Sirens series. but yeah, Pansexual seems to fit it. she's more attracted to character traits than physical

#47 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (3864 posts) - - Show Bio

If Tim Drake is turned gay just for the sake of it, everybody better run because I'm nuking this b!*ch and everything in sight

#48 Posted by dementedtheclown (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder: I think thats mostly in fan art

#49 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (3864 posts) - - Show Bio

@dementedtheclown: Yeah I know I'm just saying that if they decided to make him gay just for the sake of it

#50 Posted by queenfrost_ (2499 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is so ignorant

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