With the ability to overcome great fear and harness the power of will, test-pilot Hal Jordan was chosen to be the Green Lantern of Sector 2814 inheriting the ring of the dying alien Green Lantern, Abin Sur. He later on went to creating his own power ring from his own will power. Through sheer will power and determination, Hal has established an impressive record of heroism across the galaxy with the help of his fellow Green Lanterns as well as his peers in the Justice League.
Hal never flirted with Supergirl. She flirted with him and he was attracted to her but he told himself how wrong it was and tried to ignore her. When it got to be too much,he yelled at her and told her to find a boy her own age. Of course people would know this if they actually read the fu;)ing story instead of listening to heresay and viewing out of context scans.
@Night Thrasher: People do stupid things when they're grieving, and it's not like Hal and Guy were buddies at that point. But yeah it was iffy to be sure. I used to feel bad bout it until I found out about all the crap Guy pulled to try to get back at Hal (including teaming up with several villain in an attempt to murder him)
@Night Thrasher: People do stupid things when they're grieving, and it's not like Hal and Guy were buddies at that point. But yeah it was iffy to be sure. I used to feel bad bout it until I found out about all the crap Guy pulled to try to get back at Hal (including teaming up with several villain in an attempt to murder him)
Just because one guys a jerk, doesn't mean the guy he's a jerk to isn't a jerk also. Guy is a grade-A douche IMO but the whole "dating your girlfriend and getting engaged before your in the ground" thing is probably the biggest douchery in history. If you can do all of that in five issues means you had your eyes on her while I was alive. Not cool bro! Not cool.
@Night Thrasher: Lol. Well I guess your entitled to your opinion. Seems a little juvenile but still your opinion.
You mean to tell me, If you went missing for 48 hrs and were pronounced dead. But you came back a week later and found out your "friend" was engaged to your girlfriend. You'd be cool with that? After a period of 7 days?
7 days? Is that how long it was in actual comic book time? I thought Guy was gone for months.....well damn.....ok yeah I'd be pissed.
I don't know about 7 days but I don't think it was more than a few weeks. It took place in 5 issues. Which is confusing because of the timeline, but it wasn't that long. I actually knew nothing about it until I read the OP. Then I went and read some back issues at my shop and was floored by it. My approval of Hal went down to close to zero.
Justice?Hal Jordan seems to be the most popular of the Green Lanterns and yet I find it hard to understand why. He was not the first Earth Green Lantern and there are four other human lanterns to choose from. All of them seem cooler and better than Hal hands down.
Why other Lanterns Are Better Let's start with Alan Scott. Alan is the original Lantern way before Hal. He has the golden age look and feel. He also has Jade as a daughter who is a great character in her own right. In Addition Alan has the most unique power, origin and costume of all the earth Lanterns.
Guy Gardner is the smart-@$$. He is the less than reverent, rebel with his emotions bubbling to the surface. I remember watching the special features of the recent Green Lantern cartoon and they attributed a similar attitude to Hal. In the cartoon I would agree and I liked the cartoon but, that is not the Hal I see in the comics. Hal seems much more dry in his comics. Guy is also the crazy one who has been burned over and over again. Despite that Guy has a heart of gold that he tries not to let anyone see. This can be seen in his romance with Ice and his friendship with G'Nort who wouldn't have even been in the league if it wasn't for Guy.
Is this for real?Guy was also chosen to be the Green Lantern when Abin Sur crashed his ship on earth. Hal only got the ring because he was closer. How would the mythology of the Green Lantern be had Guy been selected before Hal?
John Stewart has two neat personalities. In the DC Animated Universe John is a marine. (once a marine always a marine) It gives a whole new aspect to the Corps. In the comic books he is the human Green Lantern who doesn't wear a mask. He is a man of the people and he even got married unlike most superheroes. John is also the only main Green Lantern who is a minority and is one of the most popular superheroes of color ever.
Kyle Rayner seemed like a younger Hal Jordan in the beginning and he did have the horrible origin story of his girlfriend being cut up and put in a refrigerator. Kyle however came into his own as a more relaxed hero. He is also the most creative of the Green Lanterns. Being an artist he makes really neat constructs with his ring and has a much more modern uniform than the other Lanterns.
Hal takes advantage of Kari's loss.Why Hal Is Not That Great To me Hal has always had a "Superman" like attitude. He has also always had a self-righteous attitude and, yet seems more screwed up than any other lantern and most heroes. Look at his track record.
Hal is a quitter. He quit being a Lantern for a time.
Hal doesn't get along with his fellow Lanterns. He took away Guy Gardner's ring and tried to take away John Stewart's.
Hal can not be counted on. He inadvertently trapped Guy into the Phantom Zone and thought he was dead but before his body would have even been cold he hits on Guy's fiance Kari Limbo. a very short time. Can anyone really blame Guy for his anger...Oh yeah Hal can.
Hal is not a team player. When Guy was put in charge by the Guardians during Crisis of Infinite Earth's Hal turns on him. Again he quit the corps and the League and tried to take other lanterns rings and get members kicked out of the league.
Hal has a questionable relationship with a very young woman. Hal has a serious relationship with Arisia. Arisia was a young teenager who willed herself to look older. Hal himself said that he still thought of her as a child and then a very short time later had his relationship with the young girl. Tell the judge "she looked 18" and see how far it gets you. Later, even after the age reboot of Arisia he is seen hitting on an underage Supergirl. All the while reminding himself that he has food in his refrigerator that is older.
Hal with ArisiaHal has problems with Alcohol. Hal is the only superhero I know of who went to prison for drunk driving.
Hal is a weak protector. Hal is the only hero I know to loose his "protected city" completely. Other heroes have had tragedies in their city but under Hal's watch Coast City is completely destroyed. Every man, woman, child and blade of grass is wiped out.
Hal is unstable. Hal went mad with the loss of Coast City and tried to will it back with his ring. He then went and killed all the remaining Green lanterns and became Parallax. Yes, I know after the fact a story was written saying he was possessed but that didn't really fit what happened originally. When going back and reading the stories it never seemed fit. Lets face facts the Parallax story was made up just to bring Hal back. I maintain he was too far gone to come back.
Hal has an evil soul. Hal became the Spectre because his soul was in purgatory for his sins. Supposedly this was for killing all the Green Lanterns. In the DC Universe the Spectre is the Wrath of God himself. This brings up many questions. Is God wrong in having Hal in purgatory? Was Parallax more powerful than God and was he able to stay undetected for a time? Did God not care that Hal was possessed and therefore not responsible. Was Hal in purgatory for something else? I'm still not sure. This is just one of the problems with the reboot.
I CAN'T!?!Hal Jordan is prejudice. Hal had a friend Tom who he referred to by the racist name "Pieface" or "Pie". Now in his defense Hal seemed to treat Tom with respect in most cases but calling him Pieface is not that respectable. Hal also had weak relationships with people of color. (see image)
Hal has so many poor qualities and they are so many Green Lanterns to choose from. I do not understand his popularity. I do not understand when there are so many other Lanterns to choose from people still think of Hal as a good hero. He has been rebooted over and over again because he always does scuzzy or lame things that make him look bad. You can reboot Batman and say he was always a ham sandwich but that doesn't change things in the past stories. This is just another point of proof to his being a less than great hero. Who is your favorite Earth Lantern, and why? I also ask again What's so great about Hal Jordan?
i know its a long time coming, but Denny O'Neil gave an interview pretty much confirming my earlier allegations towards Hal's "racism"
I like Hal Jordan because he seems the most human to me, also hal looked for guy in the phantom zone and was grief stricken when they couldn't find him, also I do agree that the young relationships he has are iffy to say the least, and yeah he's a quitter one part of being human is having personal boundary lines, we can only handle so much (and being the first scientific green lantern he's dealt with more than other three), also wouldn't you say that being one the only character to lose his home city makes him a different and special case? also hal isn't racist that i know of, I gotta say though you made some very clear and excellent points ^_^
@RedMask1: Thanks for your post. I wrote this a long time ago and it is still getting impassioned responses. It is good to hear from users with analytical minds such as yours.
@Liberty: Hal is the best GL imo. You listed a lot of bad things about Hal, and I'm sure you can find bad things about Gardener, Stewart, and Rayner too if you tried as hard as you did to discredit Hal.
It looks like a lot of your bad choice for Hal came from silver age. Have you read Geoff Johns GL run? I haven't but it's on my long list of comics to get. I heard he did a lot of good stuff for GL and Hal.
Reasons why Hal Jordan is my favorite character
Reckless
not a team player
hes not a perfect hero like Superman
his will power and he's fearless
he's funny
Bad traits for heroes make them more interesting, imo
1.Yes. He quit the corps for a time. but i think we need to show a bit of understanding. Hal didnt leave because he didn't care about the corps, quite the opposite. His job was endangering a woman he loved very much and by extension everyone who worked with/associated with her, and in the end Hal had to make choice. Of course this all turned out to be a very intricate plot by Carol's Star Sapphire persona to ruin Hal's life.
2.Its true that Hal has had skirmishes, with both of these 2 Lanterns at times but never without good reason.He tried to talk things out with Guy, but Gardner chose to pick a fight and lost. when you take into account how Guy had tried to take away Hal's a while before (very violently and with aid from Hector Hammond and the aforementioned Star Sapphire) i'm surprised that Hal behaved as well as he did. Hal and John actually got along pretty well outside of a few specific instances, all of which ended with an understanding between the 2.e
You also have to factor that these are only 2 members of a VAST corps. most of the other members got along pretty well with Hal. I dont think its fair to judge his relationship with the corps do to his relationships with 2 rather questionable Lanterns
3.i maintain that Hal wsnt origianally intending to hit on her. He felt bad his mistake and felt honor bound to take care of her, He eventually came to love her but there relationship ended when Hal lerned Guy was alive
4.i've already explained why the whole "going against Guy is a horrible point" thing. also doesnt help that Giffen was writing the instance where Hal was trying to get people kicked out of the JLI. also, if i recall correctly, Hal didnt quit the JLA. He chose not to rejoin because Aquaman only wanted members who could devote 100% of their time to the team.
5. In the orginal pre-johns retcon, Arisia was 28 by her planet's standards. that too be honest is a bit of a gray area that has more or less been dealt with. and I've seen the supergirl incident and tht girl was a maneater. I cant blame Hal for being attarcted to her,im sure a great deal of older men find themselves attracted to younger women. But he didnt do anything at that in my book is what counts.
6.Varies. only one story/origin had Hal as an alcoholic. various stories before then and after have
shown Hal drinking without doing horrible crap like driving drunk. Also, He may be the only known hero to DRIVE drunk but he is certainly not the only known hero to endanger civilians/fellow heroes while under the influence
7.actually, Coast City had several survivors including Carol Ferris and severl of Hal's family members, and the Kalmakus. You also have to considers ALL of the pressure Hal had on him at that point.Hal isnt a simple superhero who just guards one city. He's a Green Lantern, who was leading the JLI at the time,serving with the corps, trying to rebuild his life after exile so-on,so forth, im not suprised this happened. and lets be honest, this could have happened to ANY hero,
8. All stories are made up to move a character in a specific direction. Every change in a character's direction.Hell, Emerald Twilight wasnt origianlly supposed involve Hal going insane, it was the result of a writer change.
and to be honest, alot of people felt that Hal had come back as a hero before Green Lantern: Rebirth and the Parallax retcon. During his final days as Parallax, Hal gave his life to save the entire planet and restored John Stewart's ability to walk and returned Green Arrow to life. When he returned as the Spectre he devoted himself to redeeming himself and others rather than simply condemning them. He also helped mentor Kyle Rayner , and helped Wally West save his children. He tried to cure Two-Face and a whole lot more.The sounds like a hero to me.
9. The Nature of Hell/Pugatory in the DCU is very iffy. It was established that Parallax is more powerful then the Spectre during Geoff Johns run, Its possible tha Hal was simply in Purgatory so that Parallax could be contained. Harley Quinn was sent to hell for several misdemeanors iirc. The reasoning just wasnt handled well.
10. i disagree partially. i agree on the point that Hal was not exactly doing his best whereas other races were concerned, but when he was confronted by the elderly man, it was shown that Hal realized his mistake genuinely wanted to make amends. The "Pieface" nickname was defined at the time as a "simple looking person" by the dictionary and wasnt considered racially insensitive for a while.
and as you pointed out, Hal loved and respected Tom. as a matter of fact it was revealed in GL: Legacy that Tom was Hal's personal choice for his sucsessor as GL
@Liberty: Hal is the best GL imo. You listed a lot of bad things about Hal, and I'm sure you can find bad things about Gardener, Stewart, and Rayner too if you tried as hard as you did to discredit Hal.
It looks like a lot of your bad choice for Hal came from silver age. Have you read Geoff Johns GL run? I haven't but it's on my long list of comics to get. I heard he did a lot of good stuff for GL and Hal.
Reasons why Hal Jordan is my favorite character
Reckless
not a team player
hes not a perfect hero like Superman
his will power and he's fearless
he's funny
Bad traits for heroes make them more interesting, imo
All your reasons for Hal being your favorite are traits more closely associated with Guy not Hal. Hal didn't like Guy for the first three reasons and tried to get him kicked out of both the JLA and the Corps for it. I fail to see your point.
@Avenging-X-Bolt:
I have replied to so many of these it has become daunting. Although I haven't changed my mind I have rebuttaled the same arguments several times in this blog. In short and with sincere respect I disagree with argument. He quit the more than just the one time he may not have rejoined the league for the 100% reason but that is not why he quit. He had more than one altercation with Guy and if it is looked at as a whole I think Hal comes off as pretty sleazy. In the original story of Arisia she was not 28. He had more GL altercations than just Guy and John. Hell he killed a bunch in the later retconed Parallax debacle. That is a retcon. I have all the books with them from that time. Hal has been retconed so much because he needs to be. His character goes in all kinds of disreputable directions and "bling" time for another retcon. Why original thesis question is Why is Hal so great? Why is he better than the Alan, Guy, John or Kyle. Too often I get the justification of his heroism. I just look at him and see four other human Lanterns who imo are by far better characters.
You are a great person Avenging-X-Bolt. I hope we this wont cause problems between us. All cool on this end but sometimes people get ticked when you have conversations like this. Thank for the post.
@Liberty: Hal is the best GL imo. You listed a lot of bad things about Hal, and I'm sure you can find bad things about Gardener, Stewart, and Rayner too if you tried as hard as you did to discredit Hal.
It looks like a lot of your bad choice for Hal came from silver age. Have you read Geoff Johns GL run? I haven't but it's on my long list of comics to get. I heard he did a lot of good stuff for GL and Hal.
Reasons why Hal Jordan is my favorite character
Reckless
not a team player
hes not a perfect hero like Superman
his will power and he's fearless
he's funny
Bad traits for heroes make them more interesting, imo
All your reasons for Hal being your favorite are traits more closely associated with Guy not Hal. Hal didn't like Guy for the first three reasons and tried to get him kicked out of both the JLA and the Corps for it. I fail to see your point.
@Avenging-X-Bolt:
I have replied to so many of these it has become daunting. Although I haven't changed my mind I have rebuttaled the same arguments several times in this blog. In short and with sincere respect I disagree with argument. He quit the more than just the one time
Examples?
he may not have rejoined the league for the 100% reason but that is not why he quit.
then why did he?
He had more than one altercation with Guy and if it is looked at as a whole I think Hal comes off as pretty sleazy. In the original story of Arisia she was not 28. He had more GL altercations than just Guy and John.i feel the same way about Guy to be honest. can you give me some examples? because i cant honestly think of any serious fights with any other Lantern besides John and Guy.
as for Arisia, this honestly looks substantial enough, is there anything before this that explicitly and beyond a doubt negates this possibility?
Hell he killed a bunch in the later retconed Parallax debacle. That is a retcon. I have all the books with them from that time. Hal has been retconed so much because he needs to be.
His character goes in all kinds of disreputable directions and "bling" time for another retcon.
This happens to a great deal of characters. sometimes writer's eff up and someone has to fix things.
Why original thesis question is Why is Hal so great? Why is he better than the Alan, Guy, John or Kyle. Too often I get the justification of his heroism. I just look at him and see four other human Lanterns who imo are by far better characters.
well, i guess in the end, it all boils down to opinion. i see Hal as a flawed but overall good hero whereas you see him as a horrible one.
You are a great person Avenging-X-Bolt. I hope we this wont cause problems between us. All cool on this end but sometimes people get ticked when you have conversations like this. Thank for the post.
Nah. we're good. i havnt held you comparing me to a Barry Bonds fanboy against you, dont see why i should get bitter now.
Please, understand. I wrote this blog almost three years ago. I no longer have the sources at my fingertips like I once did and the answers are already in this blog, but I don't want to read it all over again. I have answered the same rebuttals several times over.
Anyway, as far as Guy altercations there was Crisis, there was the deal with Guys' fiance, there was the issue with Guy in the JLA (more than once. There was the issue when Guy looses his ring. There was the altercation when he gets the yellow ring. These are just off the top of my head. As far as Hal and other Lanterns, he did kill a bunch of them.
I'm not sure what issue you got comic from but I have these ones. Arisia went from having the body and personality of a child to a woman in one issue (less than 24 hours).
Gallery
He slaps women. Not just one woman. (see above) among the other examples in this Also see another blog while I'm looking for this photo. blog. http://whysoserious.wikia.com/wiki/Arisia
Gallery
Here are some other Hal shots that go to the Hal's Creeper thing.
Lastly, as far as the Barry Bonds things... (I'm sorry I don't remember that one, but I am glad we are cool.)
Please, understand. I wrote this blog almost three years ago. I no longer have the sources at my fingertips like I once did and the answers are already in this blog, but I don't want to read it all over again. I have answered the same rebuttals several times over.
Anyway, as far as Guy altercations there was Crisis, there was the deal with Guys' fiance, there was the issue with Guy in the JLA (more than once. There was the issue when Guy looses his ring. There was the altercation when he gets the yellow ring. These are just off the top of my head. As far as Hal and other Lanterns, he did kill a bunch of them.
ive given my thought on most of these altercations with Guy already, i view most of them as Guy's fault.
I'm not sure what issue you got comic from but I have these ones. Arisia went from having the body and personality of a child to a woman in one issue (less than 24 hours).
Gallery
He slaps women. Not just one woman. (see above) among the other examples in this Also see another blog while I'm looking for this photo. blog. http://whysoserious.wikia.com/wiki/Arisia
Gallery
Here are some other Hal shots that go to the Hal's Creeper thing.
Lastly, as far as the Barry Bonds things... (I'm sorry I don't remember that one, but I am glad we are cool.)
both slapping instances were justified or at least understandable.
Hal's ring was powerless during that fight with Star Sapphire and she had just murdered Katma Tui. Hal didn't have much of a choice and quite frankly his anger was understandable. The arisia incident is evident, it looks like she was going into hysterics.
I've kept meaning to post here for a while, but I kept forgetting.
@Avenging-X-Bolt said:
1.Yes. He quit the corps for a time. but i think we need to show a bit of understanding. Hal didnt leave because he didn't care about the corps, quite the opposite. His job was endangering a woman he loved very much and by extension everyone who worked with/associated with her, and in the end Hal had to make choice. Of course this all turned out to be a very intricate plot by Carol's Star Sapphire persona to ruin Hal's life.
2.Its true that Hal has had skirmishes, with both of these 2 Lanterns at times but never without good reason.He tried to talk things out with Guy, but Gardner chose to pick a fight and lost. when you take into account how Guy had tried to take away Hal's a while before (very violently and with aid from Hector Hammond and the aforementioned Star Sapphire) i'm surprised that Hal behaved as well as he did. Hal and John actually got along pretty well outside of a few specific instances, all of which ended with an understanding between the 2.e
You also have to factor that these are only 2 members of a VAST corps. most of the other members got along pretty well with Hal. I dont think its fair to judge his relationship with the corps do to his relationships with 2 rather questionable Lanterns
3.i maintain that Hal wsnt origianally intending to hit on her. He felt bad his mistake and felt honor bound to take care of her, He eventually came to love her but there relationship ended when Hal lerned Guy was alive
4.i've already explained why the whole "going against Guy is a horrible point" thing. also doesnt help that Giffen was writing the instance where Hal was trying to get people kicked out of the JLI. also, if i recall correctly, Hal didnt quit the JLA. He chose not to rejoin because Aquaman only wanted members who could devote 100% of their time to the team.
5. In the orginal pre-johns retcon, Arisia was 28 by her planet's standards. that too be honest is a bit of a gray area that has more or less been dealt with. and I've seen the supergirl incident and tht girl was a maneater. I cant blame Hal for being attarcted to her,im sure a great deal of older men find themselves attracted to younger women. But he didnt do anything at that in my book is what counts.
6.Varies. only one story/origin had Hal as an alcoholic. various stories before then and after have
shown Hal drinking without doing horrible crap like driving drunk. Also, He may be the only known hero to DRIVE drunk but he is certainly not the only known hero to endanger civilians/fellow heroes while under the influence
7.actually, Coast City had several survivors including Carol Ferris and severl of Hal's family members, and the Kalmakus. You also have to considers ALL of the pressure Hal had on him at that point.Hal isnt a simple superhero who just guards one city. He's a Green Lantern, who was leading the JLI at the time,serving with the corps, trying to rebuild his life after exile so-on,so forth, im not suprised this happened. and lets be honest, this could have happened to ANY hero,
8. All stories are made up to move a character in a specific direction. Every change in a character's direction.Hell, Emerald Twilight wasnt origianlly supposed involve Hal going insane, it was the result of a writer change.
and to be honest, alot of people felt that Hal had come back as a hero before Green Lantern: Rebirth and the Parallax retcon. During his final days as Parallax, Hal gave his life to save the entire planet and restored John Stewart's ability to walk and returned Green Arrow to life. When he returned as the Spectre he devoted himself to redeeming himself and others rather than simply condemning them. He also helped mentor Kyle Rayner , and helped Wally West save his children. He tried to cure Two-Face and a whole lot more.The sounds like a hero to me.
9. The Nature of Hell/Pugatory in the DCU is very iffy. It was established that Parallax is more powerful then the Spectre during Geoff Johns run, Its possible tha Hal was simply in Purgatory so that Parallax could be contained. Harley Quinn was sent to hell for several misdemeanors iirc. The reasoning just wasnt handled well.
10. i disagree partially. i agree on the point that Hal was not exactly doing his best whereas other races were concerned, but when he was confronted by the elderly man, it was shown that Hal realized his mistake genuinely wanted to make amends. The "Pieface" nickname was defined at the time as a "simple looking person" by the dictionary and wasnt considered racially insensitive for a while.
and as you pointed out, Hal loved and respected Tom. as a matter of fact it was revealed in GL: Legacy that Tom was Hal's personal choice for his sucsessor as GL
I so agree with A-X-B.
In your blog, Liberty. you completely exploited Hal's flaws and made him look like a huge jerkass. He's done good things and remember - he redeemmed himself in the best way possible: reigniting the sun. That would seem out of character for the Hal you exploit him as.
And the "Hal doesn't get along with other lanterns" thing - Hal does get along with Guy, John, and Kyle (now, at least). He didn't get along well at first - Guy didn't either and I don't see you complaining about that. (No offense meant).
Hal is a good - ah, who am I kidding; a bunch of people have already posted comments like this, saying that Hal is not that bad and is an awesome dude.
@Liberty said:
Gallery
He slaps women. Not just one woman. (see above) among the other examples in this Also see another blog while I'm looking for this photo. blog. http://whysoserious.wikia.com/wiki/Arisia
Gallery
Here are some other Hal shots that go to the Hal's Creeper thing.
Wow. Hal has slapped woman. OK....but hey, look at Mr. Fantastic - he's slapped not just a woman; his wife; which is worse than what Hank Pym did and what Hal apparently did. Oh, and he's slapped children, which you didn't say Hal does.
when people save the world little things should be forgotten
Do you mean to say drunk driving, pedophilia, racism and slapping woman are small things?
He did save the galaxy and the I dunno 'fricking multiverse' from imminent death multiple times and over
carol is his enemy, you would not defend yourself against a ringwielder?
plus the arisia thing is arguable when you look at the age of consent laws around the world (what about the laws in her culture?) he is not a pedo, but an ephebophile
@Rumble Man: Wow. Whatever helps you sleep. I think that is the first post to try and justify an ephebophile. (If that is what he is but I would argue that she is doesn't fit the 15-19 year old range used for that word) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia
@CaptainLantern76: Agreed Guy is a jerk and doesn't work and play well with others. He is my fav character and he is completely flawed Hal however goes beyond mere flaws in my book. I am not saying Mr. Fantastic or Hank Pym are good bad or anything. This blog is about Hal compared to the other human Green Lanterns as a hero. Yes there are other bad characteristics of other heroes but that is a broader topic. Lastly, and to your first point I cannot exploit or make someone (especially a fictional character) look like a "jerkass." I am merely pointing his own history (pre/post numerous recons) Too me his rap sheet it pretty bad as a whole compared to anyone else of his stature as a "hero"
@Avenging-X-Bolt: I grant you the villain fantasy world but that is one of at least three incidents. However, slapping is demeaning if she is such a "non threat" as to have Hal be able to just slap her into submission my guess is he wouldn't need to slap her. Who defends themselves by slapping? Hysterics is no reason to slap a woman. The other is a superpowered being slapping an unarmed woman (backhanded I believe)
@Rumble Man: Wow. Whatever helps you sleep. I think that is the first post to try and justify an ephebophile. (If that is what he is but I would argue that she is doesn't fit the 15-19 year old range used for that word) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia
@CaptainLantern76: Agreed Guy is a jerk and doesn't work and play well with others. He is my fav character and he is completely flawed Hal however goes beyond mere flaws in my book. I am not saying Mr. Fantastic or Hank Pym are good bad or anything. This blog is about Hal compared to the other human Green Lanterns as a hero. Yes there are other bad characteristics of other heroes but that is a broader topic. Lastly, and to your first point I cannot exploit or make someone (especially a fictional character) look like a "jerkass." I am merely pointing his own history (pre/post numerous recons) Too me his rap sheet it pretty bad as a whole compared to anyone else of his stature as a "hero"
@Avenging-X-Bolt: I grant you the villain fantasy world but that is one of at least three incidents. However, slapping is demeaning if she is such a "non threat" as to have Hal be able to just slap her into submission my guess is he wouldn't need to slap her.
when did Star Sapphire become a non threat? i said Hal was the one who was powerless....and until you can give actua evidence of these other, i cannot regard them with any weight
Who defends themselves by slapping? Hysterics is no reason to slap a woman.
makes a lot more sense than punching her. Hal is a pretty strong guy. also hysterics ARE avery good reason to slap a militaary officer, which is pretty much what Arisia is now. that kind of crap can get you killed.
The other is a superpowered being slapping an unarmed woman (backhanded I believe)
which one of them is unarmed? Arisia with her ring? or Carol Ferris as the Star Sapphire? both are actually pretty powerful super beings if i recall correctly. the fact that powerless Hal defeated a fully powered Carol is pretty damn impressive in my book.
@Rumble Man: Wow. Whatever helps you sleep. I think that is the first post to try and justify an ephebophile. (If that is what he is but I would argue that she is doesn't fit the 15-19 year old range used for that word) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia
@CaptainLantern76: Agreed Guy is a jerk and doesn't work and play well with others. He is my fav character and he is completely flawed Hal however goes beyond mere flaws in my book. I am not saying Mr. Fantastic or Hank Pym are good bad or anything. This blog is about Hal compared to the other human Green Lanterns as a hero. Yes there are other bad characteristics of other heroes but that is a broader topic. Lastly, and to your first point I cannot exploit or make someone (especially a fictional character) look like a "jerkass." I am merely pointing his own history (pre/post numerous recons) Too me his rap sheet it pretty bad as a whole compared to anyone else of his stature as a "hero"
@Avenging-X-Bolt: I grant you the villain fantasy world but that is one of at least three incidents. However, slapping is demeaning if she is such a "non threat" as to have Hal be able to just slap her into submission my guess is he wouldn't need to slap her.
when did Star Sapphire become a non threat? i said Hal was the one who was powerless....and until you can give actua evidence of these other, i cannot regard them with any weight
Who defends themselves by slapping? Hysterics is no reason to slap a woman.
makes a lot more sense than punching her. Hal is a pretty strong guy. also hysterics ARE avery good reason to slap a militaary officer, which is pretty much what Arisia is now. that kind of crap can get you killed.
The other is a superpowered being slapping an unarmed woman (backhanded I believe)
which one of them is unarmed? Arisia with her ring? or Carol Ferris as the Star Sapphire? both are actually pretty powerful super beings if i recall correctly. the fact that powerless Hal defeated a fully powered Carol is pretty damn impressive in my book.
My point with Star Sapphire is if Hal can defeat her by simply slapping her than maybe she wasn't enough of a threat. Thereby Hal didn't really need to slap her. You could do a number of things besides slapping. I couldn't say for sure but I doubt that US military results to slapping woman when they get to "hysterical"..... In looking up the other woman Hal slapped I went back in this blog and found we have already had this debate. Why are you rehashing this. It is obvious we don't agree. I don't want to keep arguing this year after year with you. Can we just set this one issue aside between you and I?
@Rumble Man: Wow. Whatever helps you sleep. I think that is the first post to try and justify an ephebophile. (If that is what he is but I would argue that she is doesn't fit the 15-19 year old range used for that word) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia
@CaptainLantern76: Agreed Guy is a jerk and doesn't work and play well with others. He is my fav character and he is completely flawed Hal however goes beyond mere flaws in my book. I am not saying Mr. Fantastic or Hank Pym are good bad or anything. This blog is about Hal compared to the other human Green Lanterns as a hero. Yes there are other bad characteristics of other heroes but that is a broader topic. Lastly, and to your first point I cannot exploit or make someone (especially a fictional character) look like a "jerkass." I am merely pointing his own history (pre/post numerous recons) Too me his rap sheet it pretty bad as a whole compared to anyone else of his stature as a "hero"
@Avenging-X-Bolt: I grant you the villain fantasy world but that is one of at least three incidents. However, slapping is demeaning if she is such a "non threat" as to have Hal be able to just slap her into submission my guess is he wouldn't need to slap her.
when did Star Sapphire become a non threat? i said Hal was the one who was powerless....and until you can give actua evidence of these other, i cannot regard them with any weight
Who defends themselves by slapping? Hysterics is no reason to slap a woman.
makes a lot more sense than punching her. Hal is a pretty strong guy. also hysterics ARE avery good reason to slap a militaary officer, which is pretty much what Arisia is now. that kind of crap can get you killed.
The other is a superpowered being slapping an unarmed woman (backhanded I believe)
which one of them is unarmed? Arisia with her ring? or Carol Ferris as the Star Sapphire? both are actually pretty powerful super beings if i recall correctly. the fact that powerless Hal defeated a fully powered Carol is pretty damn impressive in my book.
My point with Star Sapphire is if Hal can defeat her by simply slapping her than maybe she wasn't enough of a threat. Thereby Hal didn't really need to slap her. You could do a number of things besides slapping.
I doubt this. with her powers, she could easily escape being tied up or trapped something like that. hitting her could keep her in a state of physical shock. she does escape at the end of the fight if i remember right. Hal also notes that he is suffering from extreme fatigue and isnt able to think with 100% clarity.
EDit: Carol does technically win, Hal is interrupted by the cops and Carol blasts him into the ground.
I couldn't say for sure but I doubt that US military results to slapping woman when they get to "hysterical"..... In looking up the other woman Hal slapped I went back in this blog and found we have already had this debate. Why are you rehashing this. It is obvious we don't agree. I don't want to keep arguing this year after year with you. Can we just set this one issue aside between you and I?
i dont know 100%.i just think the article is a bit harsh and even if i cant convince you, i can still convince others who read this. but anyway, i guess its time to let it go.
I don't get the hype around Hal. Sure he's got the iconic costume and all, but all the other human GLs seem like far more developed characters. Hal is the character I try harder than any to get into and I just can't. There hasn't been a story arc of his that really resonated with me. And I realize what it is:
He's just not that relatable. He's also very plain. Just a very dull character devoid of any real personality. Hes one of those old school square-jawed dime a dozen white characters from back in the day who show little to no emotion. Batman also barely shows emotion, but the reason why Batman is great and Hal isnt is that you know Bruce has emotions underneath that he suppresses. Hal doesnt seem like that at all, hence why he comes off so shallow and unrelatable (especially these days when heroes are shown as flawed and more realistic). And I realized its not Johns' fault (aside from him bringing this about) or anyone else's for that matter when it comes to writing, it's just he's a very hollow character. He's not very emotional, he's not a team player, he tells lame jokes and he's "fearless". None of these traits interest me nor are they relatable characteristics. He's an outdated silver age concept of a character and just feels out of place. I really think Guy, John and Kyle should be more center stage as they are not only more likable, but are far more interesting. Also, Hal isn't much of a leader yet Johns always puts him in that role. Hal's ill prepared, even to the point where he seems mindless at times. Hes reckless and careless which offends me considering he should be looking out for all the Corps members i love so much. John Stewart would be a much better person to take the lead as he's actually been in the military. I trust these characters would be safe under john's leadership.
On another note, I just finished Sinestro Corps War and it was flippin' brilliant. My only complaint is the scenes with Hal often bored me to tears. The only thing that saved them was when he had someone like John, Kyle or Guy to add some personality to the scene. I found the issues I actually enjoyed most were the Corps ones with Kilowog and the guys being a team. Or Guy and John's friendship. Then when everyone rallies around Hal as some beckon of leadership all of a sudden I'm just lost as it feels out of left field. He's the last guy id pick for my team, let alone to be someone id look to for advice. the guys good at looking out for himself, thats it. That being said, I know that's a big thing about Hal. How he's some rebel or whatever. But really Guy's the rebel. But Guy also has a heart of damn gold. Hal's just this tool who refuses to play well with others. I really wish I found any sort of personality or likablilty in Hal as I would probably enjoy the main titles more, but I can't. And honestly I'm tired of trying. Anyway, I love everything else about the GL books and mythology. It's seriously just Hal that leaves this little void. Too bad he's set as the main character of the series, probably for a very long time. :/
Anyone else like GL but still have a problem liking Hal?
I don't get the hype around Hal. Sure he's got the iconic costume and all, but all the other human GLs seem like far more developed characters. Hal is the character I try harder than any to get into and I just can't. There hasn't been a story arc of his that really resonated with me. And I realize what it is:
He's just not that relatable. He's also very plain. Just a very dull character devoid of any real personality. Hes one of those old school square-jawed dime a dozen white characters from back in the day who show little to no emotion. Batman also barely shows emotion, but the reason why Batman is great and Hal isnt is that you know Bruce has emotions underneath that he suppresses. Hal doesnt seem like that at all, hence why he comes off so shallow and unrelatable (especially these days when heroes are shown as flawed and more realistic). And I realized its not Johns' fault (aside from him bringing this about) or anyone else's for that matter when it comes to writing, it's just he's a very hollow character.
Id disagree, all of these characters are fictional and therefore dependent on writers to bring out their personalities. No such thing as bad characters, just bad writers.
He's not very emotional, he's not a team player, he tells lame jokes and he's "fearless". None of these traits interest me nor are they relatable characteristics. He's an outdated silver age concept of a character and just feels out of place. I really think Guy, John and Kyle should be more center stage as they are not only more likable, but are far more interesting. Also, Hal isn't much of a leader yet Johns always puts him in that role.
When has Johns put him in the leading role outside of Blackest Night and War Of the Green Lanterns (hardly most of the time)? most of the corps still hated him for Emerald Twilight, Hal was still generally on his own. He behaves fine when he's actually allowed to be around other people. he did well during most of his League terms.
Hal's ill prepared, even to the point where he seems mindless at times. He's reckless and careless which offends me considering he should be looking out for all the Corps members i love so much. John Stewart would be a much better person to take the lead as he's actually been in the military. I trust these characters would be safe under john's leadership.
Reckless and careless? No emotion? Or when he cried tears of pride when Roy Harper "graduated to the Justice League" like when he risked his job to save the lost Lanterns? Or how he tried to reach out to Laira during Rage of the Red Lanterns and was so overcome by anger when Sinestro killed her that he became a Red Lantern himself? Or how he was overcome with guilt during the Wanted: Hal Jordan arc because he was rescued but his crew wasn't? and you DO know that Hal was in the military as well right? before John as a matter of fact. John only got a military history to cash in on the JL show.
Oh come on, how can you NOT be touched by this
On another note, I just finished Sinestro Corps War and it was flippin' brilliant. My only complaint is the scenes with Hal often bored me to tears. The only thing that saved them was when he had someone like John, Kyle or Guy to add some personality to the scene. I found the issues I actually enjoyed most were the Corps ones with Kilowog and the guys being a team. Or Guy and John's friendship. Then when everyone rallies around Hal as some beckon of leadership all of a sudden I'm just lost as it feels out of left field. He's the last guy id pick for my team, let alone to be someone id look to for advice. the guys good at looking out for himself, thats it. That being said, I know that's a big thing about Hal. How he's some rebel or whatever. But really Guy's the rebel. But Guy also has a heart of damn gold.
ahh yes, Guy Gardner, the guy who sexually harassed Mary Marvel and tried to kill Hal several times. real heart of gold.
Hal's just this tool who refuses to play well with others. I really wish I found any sort of personality or likability in Hal as I would probably enjoy the main titles more, but I can't. And honestly I'm tired of trying. Anyway, I love everything else about the GL books and mythology. It's seriously just Hal that leaves this little void. Too bad he's set as the main character of the series, probably for a very long time. :/
Anyone else like GL but still have a problem liking Hal?
a lot of people apparently. opinions are opinions i suppose. although to be honest it doesn't seem like you were really giving Hal a chance.
@sinestro_gl: alright then let me ask: what do you find resonates with you about him? What about him can you relate to?
I don't have to relate to a character to like them (e.g. Batman - love that guy, but he's a dick - let's be honest).
I like Hal for several reasons - most of which are the usual reasons why anyone likes Hal. He speaks out over authority, has never-dying will-power (last issue of Rebirth is a good example), he's not perfect (having flaws adds to character and character development), has faced a lot of tragedy e.g. Coast City disaster and Parallax fiasco (that adds to a rich story of a character).
One interesting thing about the character flaw is that other Lanterns and heroes see him as something of a leader, but he can't bring himself to do that.No, he can't really work on a team, but he knows when to preform.
@avenging_x_bolt: no I gave him a chance. I enjoy Green Lantern i justfind the obsession with him to be unwarranted for reasons I've already stated, but to each their own I guess.
I've read plenty of GL comics and trades, many of them Hal-centric storylines. It's not that I didn't give him a chance, it's actually quite the opposite. After numerous trades and comics ive concluded there's nothing very likable about him. Just my opinion. But yeah, I suspect I'm not alone.
@sinestro_gl: eh Batman's not really a dick. He's more emotionally cold with a calculating intellect. But since the point of Batman's persona is to instill fear into criminals, and has dedicated himself to this vigilantism, we understand the reasons for his coldness. Also he still plays well with others. Whereas Hal's a different story. He's more of the flyboy dick. An example being in Sinestro Corps War where he refuses the help of the JL only to need them later. Had he preemptively sought their help earlier things could have been better. But I guess Hal's not known for his tact. Anyway I get people like him. But for the reasons i've stated, I find it rather difficult.
@avenging_x_bolt: no I gave him a chance. I enjoy Green Lantern i justfind the obsession with him to be unwarranted for reasons I've already stated, but to each their own I guess.
I've read plenty of GL comics and trades, many of them Hal-centric storylines. It's not that I didn't give him a chance, it's actually quite the opposite. After numerous trades and comics ive concluded there's nothing very likable about him. Just my opinion. But yeah, I suspect I'm not alone.
fair enough. i dont understand certain parts of it it but i'll respect it.
@sinestro_gl: eh Batman's not really a dick. He's more emotionally cold with a calculating intellect. But since the point of Batman's persona is to instill fear into criminals, and has dedicated himself to this vigilantism, we understand the reasons for his coldness. Also he still plays well with others. Whereas Hal's a different story. He's more of the flyboy dick. An example being in Sinestro Corps War where he refuses the help of the JL only to need them later. Had he preemptively sought their help earlier things could have been better. But I guess Hal's not known for his tact. Anyway I get people like him. But for the reasons i've stated, I find it rather difficult.
having emotions behind something doesn't mean you're not a dick (I'm not saying Batman is a dick mind you). despite the revelation/retcon involving Parallax, Hal still carries a lot of guilt over the whole situation, it was also touched upon during Emerald Twilight that Hal's womanizing behavior was the result of a deep subconscious belief that (due to the sins of his youth) he doesn't deserve love.It's not hard to see that this could extend to friendships as well. and to be honest its not really like any of the Leaguers had really been there in the past when he needed them. have you ever read his Action Comics Weekly run? When Hal tried to reach out to Batman, Superman, Green Arrow and John Stewart and they all basically told him to f&*k off. or better yet remember Coast City? How pretty much no one gave a f%*6k about Hal until after he had a psychotic breakdown killed several Green Lanterns and most of the Guardians. Its understandable that Hal could always try to do things on his own first before dragging people he loves into it. my mother was the same way no one was there for her when she needed help raising me and she eventually just got so used to doing things on her own that she became near completely unreceptive to people's offer to help.
That being said, it doesn't excuse him for acting petty and refusing to ask for help preemptively when innocent lives are at stake. Whether its deep seated or not, doesn't mean he has an excuse to be reckless and careless given his position of power. Actually the more we discuss it the more petty and reckless he seems.
I don't get the hype around Hal. Sure he's got the iconic costume and all, but all the other human GLs seem like far more developed characters. Hal is the character I try harder than any to get into and I just can't. There hasn't been a story arc of his that really resonated with me. And I realize what it is:
He's just not that relatable. He's also very plain. Just a very dull character devoid of any real personality. Hes one of those old school square-jawed dime a dozen white characters from back in the day who show little to no emotion. Batman also barely shows emotion, but the reason why Batman is great and Hal isnt is that you know Bruce has emotions underneath that he suppresses. Hal doesnt seem like that at all, hence why he comes off so shallow and unrelatable (especially these days when heroes are shown as flawed and more realistic). And I realized its not Johns' fault (aside from him bringing this about) or anyone else's for that matter when it comes to writing, it's just he's a very hollow character. He's not very emotional, he's not a team player, he tells lame jokes and he's "fearless". None of these traits interest me nor are they relatable characteristics. He's an outdated silver age concept of a character and just feels out of place. I really think Guy, John and Kyle should be more center stage as they are not only more likable, but are far more interesting. Also, Hal isn't much of a leader yet Johns always puts him in that role. Hal's ill prepared, even to the point where he seems mindless at times. Hes reckless and careless which offends me considering he should be looking out for all the Corps members i love so much. John Stewart would be a much better person to take the lead as he's actually been in the military. I trust these characters would be safe under john's leadership.
On another note, I just finished Sinestro Corps War and it was flippin' brilliant. My only complaint is the scenes with Hal often bored me to tears. The only thing that saved them was when he had someone like John, Kyle or Guy to add some personality to the scene. I found the issues I actually enjoyed most were the Corps ones with Kilowog and the guys being a team. Or Guy and John's friendship. Then when everyone rallies around Hal as some beckon of leadership all of a sudden I'm just lost as it feels out of left field. He's the last guy id pick for my team, let alone to be someone id look to for advice. the guys good at looking out for himself, thats it. That being said, I know that's a big thing about Hal. How he's some rebel or whatever. But really Guy's the rebel. But Guy also has a heart of damn gold. Hal's just this tool who refuses to play well with others. I really wish I found any sort of personality or likablilty in Hal as I would probably enjoy the main titles more, but I can't. And honestly I'm tired of trying. Anyway, I love everything else about the GL books and mythology. It's seriously just Hal that leaves this little void. Too bad he's set as the main character of the series, probably for a very long time. :/
Anyone else like GL but still have a problem liking Hal?
That being said, it doesn't excuse him for acting petty and refusing to ask for help preemptively when innocent lives are at stake. Whether its deep seated or not, doesn't mean he has an excuse to be reckless and careless given his position of power. Actually the more we discuss it the more petty and reckless he seems.
well to be fair it IS called subconscious for a reason. odds are he doesnt realise WHY he's doing it.
@avenging_x_bolt: all the more reason he's not to be trusted. If he doesn't have the WILL to do what's right he's not the lantern you think he is.
dont you usually have to know something's there in order to actually fight it? i'm not sure i see how it relates to will. Its like saying John has less will because of Cosmic Odyssey. He didn't actually see what he was doing wrong. it was only after there were tragic consequences that he eventually realized where he went wrong.
@avenging_x_bolt: tbh I was just following your inane example. In reality, Hal doesnt have to be aware of whatever complex he's harboring to carry out free WILL. So your point is moot regardless. Fact is, he exhibits careless and reckless behavior, especilly during said incident in the SCW. He doesn't have to be a tool he just chose to be. THAT is the difference.
In reality, Hal doesn't have to be aware of whatever complex he's harboring to carry out free WILL. So your point is moot regardless.
I'l give you this. you are completely right.
Fact is, he exhibits careless and reckless behavior, especilly during said incident in the SCW. He doesn't have to be a tool he just chose to be.
true, but it doesn't exactly address one of the points, you said that Hal shows no emotion and that Bruce's actions were more understandable/justified because he has emotions, to which i pointed out that this was flawed because Hal obviously has emotions and rationalization. so i don't see why Bruce gets a free pass and Hal is automatically a dick. its not like Bruce's antics have never blatantly endangered others (Brother Eye, pretty much the entire concept of Robin). I just dont see why not wanting to drag people you love into needless danger makes you a dick. reckless, yes but careless. no i don't see that.
Because Alan Scott wore ballerina slipers, John Stewart is boring as hell, Guy is a douche and Kyle doesnt make a lot of sense. That leave Hal a complete bad ass compared to the rest. Deal with it and quit crying about your favorite lantern not selling half the books that Hal does.
then humor me and explain it again. neither Hal nor Bruce had to make their choices but did anyway. both of their choices presumably hurt innocent people. Bruce didnt have to build Brother Eye because he was mad at what the Justice League did to him, and he didn't have to take n Robin's because he was lonely just as Hal doesn't have to alienate people because he feels bad about things that happened when he was Parallax or mistakes he made as a young man. but the fact is that they both did. what specifically
Where was Hal's rationality in SCW?
I havent read Sinestro Corps War in years and am only able to offer the conjecture i previously stated repeatedly.
Lol You have yet to address my point by instead slipping off into obscure tangents of things I've said.
Really? which point haven't i addressed. i seem to have made statement that were relevant to my point
Not the mark of a good debater I might add. But definitely the mark of slithery argumentation on your part.
Im not even going to touch on that.
You can retort if you want, I've lost interest with you though. It's obvious to me you're quite the Hal fanboy after looking further into this thread. Seems you'll challenge anyone who isn't a Hal butt buddy like yourself.
wow, way to make personal attack over fictional characters. i may be a fanboy and a horrible debater but at least i'm not an asshole who makes homophobic slurs when someone has a separate opinion.
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