Hal Jordan's Will Power in the New 52

Posted by DEGRAAF (7912 posts) - - Show Bio

First blog go easy lol

Hal Jordan has been considered a the greatest green lantern of the corps for a while now (probably since Johns start on the comic). He has feats through out his life time that show he deserves his spot on the Justice League. His feats include but are not limited to: Time travel, Transmutation, city recreation, invisibility, etc. (if you want to know more feats see links at the bottom)

Probably his most recent one one of his most powerful feats were defeating an old guardian named Krona. Hal did the impossible and defeated Krona using only his own green power ring. To get an idea of how big this accomplishment was, when all seemed lost nad Krona had taken over Oa as well as had the power of six of the emotional entities at his disposal. Hal tore him a new one using sheer will power, killing him*, something the guardians said should not have been possible. Also prior to the New 52, Hal was being shown as one of the most versatile beings in the universe being able to be accepted into 6 other lantern colors (yellow, red, blue, orange, black, and white)

Since the fall of Krona Hal had his ring taken from him and sent back to Earth only to be given a construct ring by Sinestro in return for his help. While his ring was limited to some extents for all intents purposes it was a fully functioning ring. While still showing the abilities of a normal lantern since the New 52 began he has be shown to have multiple people break down, or through his barriers and constructs.

He was and in my opinion still is a great hero and lantern but what have they done to him? Maybe he has been this weak because he hasn't had a real ring or something but i cant remember the last time a lantern had been broken down this many times in such a short period of time (our time). not to mention half of the pictures above happened toward the beginning of the Justice League relaunch which was set 5-6 years prior to the current on goings of the comics. Other short comings of Hal since the relaunch is that he had his ring simply taken from him by batman and basically schooled all over again by Sinestro in various occasions. I would like to hear what you all think. Is this just a way of Johns growing the character? or is this just another mishap of the New 52? While the stories have been good, that have really twisted this magnificently strong hero into a weak new recruit.

http://www.comicvine.com/hal-jordan/29-11202/hal-jordan-feats/92-537553/

http://heshouldreallyknowbetter.blogspot.com/2011/01/even-more-hal-jordan-feats.html

http://www.ksitetv.com/forums/showthread.php?43994-Character-Feat-Scans

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-492342-hal-jordan-and-the-green-lantern-corps-respect-thread-updated.html

http://greenlantern.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Lantern_(Hal_Jordan)

#1 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

I know it looks like they've nerfed Hal a fair bit and I do agree with your analysis of his poor New 52 showings. At least against powerhouses, Hal doesn't have good showings. But I just want to correct one error in your blog. You seem to imply (might be wrong) that Hal had his Sinestro created ring during The Villain's Journey story arc. I don't hold this to be true. See there was no point during the first arc, Sinestro, or the second Indigo Tribe arc where Hal could have had a Justice League adventure. Here's how it happens IMO:

Justice League 9-12, Green Lantern: New Guardians and War of the Green Lanterns (had to occur for Hal to lose his ring), New 52 Green Lantern. There was no point where Hal could have had an adventure with the Justice League as the entire time he had his created ring, he was with Sinestro.

#2 Posted by DEGRAAF (7912 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

I know it looks like they've nerfed Hal a fair bit and I do agree with your analysis of his poor New 52 showings. At least against powerhouses, Hal doesn't have good showings. But I just want to correct one error in your blog. You seem to imply (might be wrong) that Hal had his Sinestro created ring during The Villain's Journey story arc. I don't hold this to be true. See there was no point during the first arc, Sinestro, or the second Indigo Tribe arc where Hal could have had a Justice League adventure. Here's how it happens IMO:

Justice League 9-12, Green Lantern: New Guardians and War of the Green Lanterns (had to occur for Hal to lose his ring), New 52 Green Lantern. There was no point where Hal could have had an adventure with the Justice League as the entire time he had his created ring, he was with Sinestro.

sorry. I just ment by Sinestro (while Sinestro was is a green Lantern) I agree with you. Hal had a standard GL ring in the first arc of Justice League then and possibly up until his current missing whereabouts and that would be where GL#1 of the New 52 would start

#3 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@DEGRAAF said:

@Lvenger said:

I know it looks like they've nerfed Hal a fair bit and I do agree with your analysis of his poor New 52 showings. At least against powerhouses, Hal doesn't have good showings. But I just want to correct one error in your blog. You seem to imply (might be wrong) that Hal had his Sinestro created ring during The Villain's Journey story arc. I don't hold this to be true. See there was no point during the first arc, Sinestro, or the second Indigo Tribe arc where Hal could have had a Justice League adventure. Here's how it happens IMO:

Justice League 9-12, Green Lantern: New Guardians and War of the Green Lanterns (had to occur for Hal to lose his ring), New 52 Green Lantern. There was no point where Hal could have had an adventure with the Justice League as the entire time he had his created ring, he was with Sinestro.

sorry. I just ment by Sinestro (while Sinestro was is a green Lantern) I agree with you. Hal had a standard GL ring in the first arc of Justice League then and possibly up until his current missing whereabouts and that would be where GL#1 of the New 52 would start

Hmm that's my best guess.

#4 Posted by consolemaster001 (6076 posts) - - Show Bio

He got the willpower to go up against superman so you do the math

Online
#5 Posted by DEGRAAF (7912 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001: Superman crushed through his constructs. He a single construct withstood Supermans might since the New 52 started?

#6 Posted by consolemaster001 (6076 posts) - - Show Bio

@DEGRAAF: True but he fought supes so that's something to consider. Also he was fighting darkseid and his attacks had little to no affect on him but hal continued to fight.

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#7 Posted by DEGRAAF (7912 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001: Agree he is brave and willing to try anyways but his constructs used to be much stronger. Also the first time he tried holding superman he didnt know his constructs wouldnt work

#8 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13613 posts) - - Show Bio

he's been nerfed for plot purposes apparently.

#9 Posted by consolemaster001 (6076 posts) - - Show Bio

@DEGRAAF: yes that's what i mean

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#10 Posted by mace11 (256 posts) - - Show Bio

As for hal vs krona here is info about that.

Hal was the greatest will power he overcame the rings limit and killed Krona a gaurdian. read the whole thread i think it explains it better.

_______________________

reply-

No. What Hal did was used his willpower to overcome a safety mechanism in the ring that prevents the user from killing, or from using it to attack a guardian. But that's very different. The Rings actually have a limit to how much willpower they can actually take; and John Stewart was the first to actually hit and exceed that limit. To my knowledge no other GL ever hit that limit, definitately not before and I'm 99% sure never afterwards. He actually had so much willpower the ring couldn't take it. It wasn't a programmed restriction; the ring simply was physically not capable of that level of willpower.

For more info about hal look at links below.

Hal is not the most powerful earth green lantern,it's john stewart.

John has the greatest will power,kyle and hal were the most powerful when they got a extra boost in powers years ago.John has beaten hal a few time already by the way

Kyle is the most powerful earth lantern NOW in the new52 because he is a white lantern.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/hal-jordan-vs-kyle-rayner-lantern-battle-749829/?page=2

Here some info in page 3 about it from me.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/superman-vs-hal-jordan-40596%203/

#11 Posted by KnightX (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@mace11 said:

As for hal vs krona here is info about that.

Hal was the greatest will power he overcame the rings limit and killed Krona a gaurdian. read the whole thread i think it explains it better.

_______________________

reply-

No. What Hal did was used his willpower to overcome a safety mechanism in the ring that prevents the user from killing, or from using it to attack a guardian. But that's very different. The Rings actually have a limit to how much willpower they can actually take; and John Stewart was the first to actually hit and exceed that limit. To my knowledge no other GL ever hit that limit, definitately not before and I'm 99% sure never afterwards. He actually had so much willpower the ring couldn't take it. It wasn't a programmed restriction; the ring simply was physically not capable of that level of willpower.

For more info about hal look at links below.

Hal is not the most powerful earth green lantern,it's john stewart.

John has the greatest will power,kyle and hal were the most powerful when they got a extra boost in powers years ago.John has beaten hal a few time already by the way

Kyle is the most powerful earth lantern NOW in the new52 because he is a white lantern.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/hal-jordan-vs-kyle-rayner-lantern-battle-749829/?page=2

Here some info in page 3 about it from me.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/superman-vs-hal-jordan-40596%203/

You contradict yourself. First you say John is the most powerful GL of Earth then you say it's Kyle?

I agree, Kyle is the most powerful "Ring Wielder" but he's a White Lantern not a Green Lantern. Thus, he isn't the most powerful Green Lantern.

Your also wrong about John having the greatest willpower. That's Hal. In the last issue of Johns run, Johns stated within the comic itself that HAL, not John, is the "nexus of pure willpower". Hal, not John, killed Krona when Krona had ALL 6 Entities inside of him, enhancing his power. Hal, not John.

That also means that Hal IS the most powerful Green Lantern, not John.

#12 Edited by mace11 (256 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal was a rookie in the early new52,that's why he was losing.

#13 Posted by Bezza (3856 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with the OP on this. I always felt that Hal was supposed to be the one meta human who could go toe to toe with Superman, due to his all round abilities and then in JL Vol1 he is getting trashed in like the first issue! The power of the ring Is surely DCs version of something like the Silver Surfer's power cosmic, i.e. infinite possibilities, so Hal should be much better than his New 52 showings....

#14 Posted by mace11 (256 posts) - - Show Bio

Some other lanterns could go toe to with superman like john stewart etc....The problem is this reboot is different then any others.Other reboots always had hal not as a rookie when he meet superman so clearly he was well trained by then.

This Hal at the beginning of the new52 is young and still not well trained.That is the biggest difference this time and most rookie lanterns can't really beat superman and hal is one of them,but the new52 did not explain this too well.

A later hal in the new52 is more trained but still young so he has a chance to beat superman if there is around two,but who knows.

#15 Posted by Bezza (3856 posts) - - Show Bio

@mace11:

I hadn't realised this, guess that explains Hals cocky attitude in the first New 52 JL book when he felt he could apprehend Superman and got smashed. Lets hope it isn't too long before he boosts up a bit!

#16 Posted by BoringPerson (2655 posts) - - Show Bio

@mace11: Hal has never been in a situation in which he needed to top it his ring's will limit. He even states that he never even knew there was a limit since he's never hit it.

People should also note, Hal's current ring is NOT a gl ring. It's Volthoom's First Ring. It's a bit of a forgotten plot point for the current writing.

#17 Posted by Knightsofdarkness2 (4437 posts) - - Show Bio

GL has been so nerfed in the New 52.

#18 Posted by Comicuser (1677 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing consistent has happened to tell me Hal has been nerfed.

#19 Posted by Comicuser (1677 posts) - - Show Bio

@boringperson: WOW. you are absolutely right. I'd forgotten that the ring went to Hal when hal was a black lantern. Thats truly amazing. i cant believe id forgotten that. Thanks alot for mentioning that man!

#20 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9177 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing consistent has happened to tell me Hal has been nerfed.

Except for Superman, Wonder Woman and Orion making him and his constructs look amateurish. That wouldn't have happened in the Pre New 52 universe.

#22 Edited by Comicuser (1677 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@comicuser said:

Nothing consistent has happened to tell me Hal has been nerfed.

Except for Superman, Wonder Woman and Orion making him and his constructs look amateurish. That wouldn't have happened in the Pre New 52 universe.

except superman and wonder woman did it early on when he was a rookie. so that gets thrown out. Orion breaking his constructs isnt anything that id consider PIS or a nerf to hal.

#23 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicuser: Wonder Woman did it in present day when he wasn't a rookie. The Villain's Journey took place 5 years after the Origin arc.

#24 Edited by Comicuser (1677 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@comicuser: Wonder Woman did it in present day when he wasn't a rookie. The Villain's Journey took place 5 years after the Origin arc.

oh yea, thats right, but even so, it doesnt matter because he didnt break the construct with her fists. The bubble broke because she back handed hal in the face while they were both inside the bubble and so his concentration faltered and the bubble shattered.

#25 Edited by captain_batman_FTW (1398 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@comicuser said:

Nothing consistent has happened to tell me Hal has been nerfed.

Except for Superman, Wonder Woman and Orion making him and his constructs look amateurish. That wouldn't have happened in the Pre New 52 universe.

That's one thing I hate about the new 52, they nerfe everyone, especially someone who has his full continuity from pre-52.

#26 Posted by SpawnOfGod (90 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing says Hal is nerfed. Its a misconception that has already been addressed and corrected on this very thread.

#27 Posted by BoringPerson (2655 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@comicuser: Wonder Woman did it in present day when he wasn't a rookie. The Villain's Journey took place 5 years after the Origin arc.

It did? Formally requesting a source to satiate my curiosity.

#28 Edited by mysoulz (397 posts) - - Show Bio

@boringperson said:

@lvenger said:

@comicuser: Wonder Woman did it in present day when he wasn't a rookie. The Villain's Journey took place 5 years after the Origin arc.

It did? Formally requesting a source to satiate my curiosity.

Yes, the story was about David Graves being saved by the JL during Darkseid's invasion, but him and his family became terminally ill, so he's been missing 4 years ago, which is a year after the invasion. Aquaman already mentioned to Hal that they've been a team 5 years ago, which is present time. I don't have a scan at the moment, but it's from Justice League #12.

Hal was never a rookie during his encounter with WW.

#29 Posted by Bezza (3856 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, so far in the New Gods storyline, all the Lanterns have had their butts handed to them and haven't been able to put up any sort of resistance. I hope eventually there will shown to be a good reason for this, because presently the Lanterns suck compared with how they were in the pre New 52 days when Kyle and Hal each defeated Mongul, John Stewart incapacitated Superman and so on...

#30 Posted by TDK_1997 (15059 posts) - - Show Bio

I have thought about Hal's certain nerf since the start of the New 52 as well. I really dislike that because now Hal seems like some pushover Lantern that anyone can easily defeat with no difficulty. And actually since Venditti started writing him he became even weaker actually.

#31 Edited by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@boringperson said:

@lvenger said:

@comicuser: Wonder Woman did it in present day when he wasn't a rookie. The Villain's Journey took place 5 years after the Origin arc.

It did? Formally requesting a source to satiate my curiosity.

As you wish, here's a scan from the first issue of The Villain's Journey, Justice League #9. As you can see, David Graves' illness reached its peak about a year after the Justice League formed.

See the rest at Comixology: https://www.comixology.co.uk/Justice-League-2011-9/digital-comic/25139

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