Hal Jordan Will Power... Better Than Bruce Wayne?

#1 Posted by RandomThang (53 posts) - - Show Bio

So the ring chooses... and yet Bruce Wayne who have dead parents, fought his fear of bats by becoming one himself, train extensively to physical and mental peak and to fight villains that are so much more powerful than him, but doesn't give up (example, Bane)...

I understand Hal is willing to sacrifice himself, but he isn't the first one to do so, what's so special about Hal Jordan, the person?

#2 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal was closest to the ring when it needed someone to choose.

#3 Posted by MrShway88 (679 posts) - - Show Bio

This is why Batman doesn't get a ring.

#4 Edited by Wolfrazer (7729 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Hal has the strongest will, its been stated.  Batman shouldn't have everything let someone else have something.

#5 Posted by RandomThang (53 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer: I think the Green Lantern ring made a mistake : p

I seriously dislike Batman VS Green Lantern forums (don't know why people do that), and keep saying Hal umberstomp.

#6 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal was closer and may have certain other qualities the Ring sought out.

Bruce Wayne already had his path. Hal needed one, maybe the Ring saw that. Plus, as far as objectivity goes, Bruce Wayne would be so OP with a green lantern ring lmao.

#7 Posted by Alch21 (210 posts) - - Show Bio

As far as getting picked for the ring goes: I believe it was a tie between Hal and Guy for top pick. Hal was closer as stated in the Booster Gold series. And then John was picked. So one can assume that Hal has a greater will power than Batman. But there are other reasons why a ring would pick someone over someone else. Batman does use fear as a weapon so that might be a reason the ring wouldn't go to him.

#8 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8869 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer said:

Because Hal has the strongest will, its been stated. Batman shouldn't have everything let someone else have something.

This is bull. Hal has never demonstrated any feats of willpower on par with Bruce, never. It's just Geoff Johns wanking because he loves Hal so much. Hal has constantly been corrupted, mind controlled and possessed. He became Parallax and murdered an entire world. So much that OA had to choose a new lantern to carry the last ring (Kyle Rayner) because he'd gone insane. the parallax entity bit was a retcon Geoff Johns personally engineered because he hated it. Screw Hal, he's never even shown the most willpowerr and creativity amongst the earth lantern.

While Bruce has pushed on through the fire and flames, defeated his demons and faced tragedy uncorrupted. There are literally dozens of heroes who constantly on-up douchey Hal in willpower (Superman, Diana, MM, Oracle, etc)

Screw Hal and screw Geoff John's fanwank retcons

#9 Posted by HalJordan888 (38 posts) - - Show Bio

Of Course Hal's willpower is better than Bruce's. It in his character and it makes him who he is. The Ring takes a lot out of you and Hal being able to use it so well shows how much he has and that Bruce doesn't use it like Hal. Stop trying to take things away from Hal, he's a great, flawed and wonderful character that doesn't need anymore hate on him.

#10 Edited by The_Tree (7980 posts) - - Show Bio

In Green Lantern #9 Bruce wasn't able to use the ring because he couldn't put his parents' deaths behind him. The ring's choosing process probably took that into consideration. Plus, you have to take comic book logic into consideration when it comes to a ring that chooses it's master by who's closest and has the most willpower. Batman can't have everything. It'd be like asking why all of the Earth-based Green Lanterns are American. It's just something you don't question.

#11 Posted by RandomThang (53 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree: Batman couldn't put his parents death behind him sure, but it never hindered him from anything and from that event it gave Batman extensive will power, Batman didn't even intended to kill Joe Chill (his parents killer), it was an accident, even though he was angry, his morals is still intact and he didn't want to become one of them.

I think the events in Bruce's life is what made his will so awesome, and his feats are amazing. From the Batman that suffers pain from a mere bullet (but trained in India to deal with pain, eventually, he called it working through pain) to one that doesn't fears any, he have suffered a lot (such as scarecrow's gases and killer croc), but eventually with amazing will he have overcome them. Even fights with Captain America, he doesn't just give up just because he is weaker in physical strength and endurance. It's just the fact that he have to use human limitations to do what he has to do, while Hal have a ring to help him increase his will and do what the ring does (the ring obviously gives more confidence).

Imagine Bruce with GL ring, he could envision the molecule structure exact to Krptonite to emit radiation : )

He could envision the molecule structure or even to the 4th or 5th dimension in the concepts of quantum mechanics to actually let the MM pass through him.

He'll be so awesome with the ring, he could do so many which I think, others cannot, because of Bruce's variety of knowledge.

#12 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13680 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh Jesus Christ, don't we have enough of these threads?

#13 Posted by Luster77 (137 posts) - - Show Bio

OK...both Bruce and Hal are regular human beings and very good at their human jobs. In a fight, you know Bruce is going to kick Hals ass several times over. Hals not that good a fighter as Bruce is, he's a hard nosed fighter pilot with regular military training. Over the years, Hal has gained enough Willpower on his own to utilize his ring to his full potential. I think Bruce would still one up him if he had a ring too...and not forget, Bruce could have had a ring but he did not want it, even the yellow ring of fear chose Bruce and he rejected it. Tells you something bout willpower right there. If all the Lanterns of Earth took off their rings and squared with Bruce/Batman, he'd hand them there asses and call Damage Control for clean-up.

#14 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

There would be no story. Oh look Bat-Lantern stopped another war...single handedly.

#15 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13680 posts) - - Show Bio

Because bat-fanboys cant have everything.

#16 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer said:

Because Hal has the strongest will, its been stated. Batman shouldn't have everything let someone else have something.

I thought it was because Hal had the power to overcome great fear. It seems that you could argue that there are many highly-disciplined, willful DC characters.

If it were strictly a matter of will, Characters like Lady Shiva, the Sensei, and Richard Dragon would have been Green Lanterns.

#17 Posted by Wolfrazer (7729 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crash_Recovery said:

@Wolfrazer said:

Because Hal has the strongest will, its been stated. Batman shouldn't have everything let someone else have something.

I thought it was because Hal had the power to overcome great fear. It seems that you could argue that there are many highly-disciplined, willful DC characters.

If it were strictly a matter of will, Characters like Lady Shiva, the Sensei, and Richard Dragon would have been Green Lanterns.

Batman can overcome fear too, in fact last I recall he doesn't fear anything. Same with Hal(if I remember right) so....ya, but again Batman can't nor shouldn't have everything. If so then you might as well just get rid of all the heroes, and just have Batman seeing as he has everything better then everyone.
#18 Posted by Squalleon (4979 posts) - - Show Bio

@RandomThang: You blind bat-fans are the reason batman has started to became an annoying overrated character.God, why you people find it so hard to admit that your BATGOD is just a man.That no prep time is enough for everything.

Batman can't be a green lantern because he lives in the past and cannot move on(ref Green lantern vol 4 #9)

All the Human green lanterns have greater will than Bruce,it's simple.He cannot have everything.He has a strong will but not the strongest.Stated in hundreds of comics through the ages.

Hal Jordan is The best green lantern in the universe,THE STRONGER WILL IN THE UNIVERSE.NO,batman hasn't stronger will than him.

Sorry,for shouting and raging like that but have you any idea how ridiculous that thread is!

#19 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman would wear a yellow ring, and almost did. He is fueled by fear and horror that what happened to him could happen to anyone else, and he uses fear to prevent that. Sinestro Corps Batman appeared in, I think, two panels, and is insanely popular for con sketches regardless.

#20 Posted by TheCannon (19464 posts) - - Show Bio

@MrShway88 said:

This is why Batman doesn't get a ring.

This.

#21 Posted by BlackWind (7219 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

There would be no story. Oh look Bat-Lantern stopped another war...single handedly.

Basically this. Bat-God is overpowered anyway. Give him a ring and everyone else can go on vacation.

#22 Posted by Raw_Material (3300 posts) - - Show Bio
Willpower? psshhh!!
#23 Posted by jobbernos (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer said:

Because Hal has the strongest will, its been stated. Batman shouldn't have everything let someone else have something.
#24 Posted by Juandicimo_Magnifico45 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of these posts are ridiculous. Hal Jordan was the first Earth GL because he was best fit for the ring, period. Hal Jordan, along with Guy and John, are best fit for bearing the ring. It has been shown before, Batman cannot even control the ring. So, does Batman have more willpower than Hal Jordan? Not a chance. Does Batman have other qualities that are superior to Hal? You betcha. However, whether you like it or not, Hal Jordan is best fit to be GL, ie, Hal has more willpower.

#25 Posted by Raw_Material (3300 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal proving his willpower is greater than the one of Bruce Wayne's

#26 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't they state at one point that Bruce Wayne's obsession over his parents death shows his lack of real willpower, even as it drives him to do great things? That if he were to ever wield a ring, he'd first have to get over his parents death?

#27 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13680 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

Didn't they state at one point that Bruce Wayne's obsession over his parents death shows his lack of real willpower, even as it drives him to do great things? That if he were to ever wield a ring, he'd first have to get over his parents death?

yup, right after Bruce and Hal's fight with Mark Richards

#28 Posted by Krissyjump (105 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that in Bruce's case many people mistake his obsession and drive as willpower.

#29 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13680 posts) - - Show Bio

@Krissyjump said:

I think that in Bruce's case many people mistake his obsession and drive as willpower.

makes sense.

#30 Posted by Juandicimo_Magnifico45 (152 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by SUNMAN (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal doesn't even have the greatest willpower out of all the Green Lanterns

#32 Edited by serpent222 (319 posts) - - Show Bio

If we're talking about this issue from a real world writing perspective: as everyone said, Batman would be insanely overpowered. He was well established as a hero in his own right and would never need any such power to elevate him. Not to mention, when the Corps was conceived, I doubt anyone stopped and considered where Batman stood on the willpower issue.

Like him or hate him, Batman is well established as having an incredible amount of will power. I don't think you can really detract from that because Batman lingers on his parents' death. If that were really such an issue, I can't imagine that Rayner or Stewart would ever keep/have a ring because they constantly linger on tragedy. But on the issue of willpower, it's not like there is a mechanism to measure it, even within the rings. Most of the time, such a thing would need to be demonstrated in a certain situation that cannot ever be guaranteed to happen. It easily could be that Superman or Batman outperformed all the lanterns in situations where willpower were required. Because of this, there have to be other considerations for the ring when seeking candidates.

Short Opinion: As demonstrated in Blackest Night, I think that the issue is finding someone who is near PURE willpower in terms of emotional composition. Maybe Batman and Superman have shown more willpower than lanterns at some points. BUT Superman is ripe with Hope and Compassion. Batman has embraced and harvested fear. They are not pure of will, and such would likely not be chosen. On the other hand, Jordan and Gardner at least are incredibly stubborn, and Stewart very steadfast and strong, and are great candidates on that front.

#33 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13680 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN said:

Hal doesn't even have the greatest willpower out of all the Green Lanterns

Id say he does.

#34 Edited by Teerack (7455 posts) - - Show Bio

When the ring choose Hal Bruce was still depressed and full of fear while he was learning to be a master martial artist/detective.

#35 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13680 posts) - - Show Bio

@serpent222 said:

If we're talking about this issue from a real world writing perspective: as everyone said, Batman would be insanely overpowered. He was well established as a hero in his own right and would never need any such power to elevate him. Not to mention, when the Corps was conceived, I doubt anyone stopped and considered where Batman stood on the willpower issue.

Like him or hate him, Batman is well established as having an incredible amount of will power. I don't think you can really detract from that because Batman lingers on his parents' death. If that were really such an issue, I can't imagine that Rayner or Stewart would ever keep/have a ring because they constantly linger on tragedy. But on the issue of willpower, it's not like there is a mechanism to measure it, even within the rings. Most of the time, such a thing would need to be demonstrated in a certain situation that cannot ever be guaranteed to happen. It easily could be that Superman or Batman outperformed all the lanterns in situations where willpower were required. Because of this, there have to be other considerations for the ring when seeking candidates.

Short Opinion: As demonstrated in Blackest Night, I think that the issue is finding someone who is near PURE willpower in terms of emotional composition. Maybe Batman and Superman have shown more willpower than lanterns at some points. BUT Superman is ripe with Hope and Compassion. Batman has embraced and harvested fear. They are not pure of will, and such would likely not be chosen. On the other hand, Jordan and Gardner at least are incredibly stubborn, and Stewart very steadfast and strong, and are great candidates on that front.

this makes a great deal of sense.

#36 Edited by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's be real there was no way they are gonna give Batman a GL ring,it doesn't matter who has more will power,every hero has shown to have incredible power,all heroes overcome their fear.Jordan got the ring cause writers wanted to write GL stories not Cosmic Batman.

But yes if you're asking will power then Bruce indeed has more of that,he resisted Hunger while Superman and Diana failed against Pestilence and War,I can more characters with more pure will than Jordan(even excluding the whole fear,stuck in the past rubbish that Johns came up with which for some reason does not apply to Sinestro or Cyborg Superman),Bane is one example,that guy is will incarnate more than Jordan can dream of and he's sees Batman as an equal in that area to the point of respect and admiration.

#37 Posted by consolemaster001 (6115 posts) - - Show Bio

No definently not. Bruce's willpower dwarfs hal jordans

#38 Posted by Andy Steven Summers (5234 posts) - - Show Bio

@serpent222 said:

Batman has embraced and harvested fear.

This pretty much sums up why I believe Bruce was never 'chosen' or a candidate for a Green Lantern Ring. He uses fear as a tool/weapon.

#39 Posted by consolemaster001 (6115 posts) - - Show Bio

i stand by what is say

#40 Posted by consolemaster001 (6115 posts) - - Show Bio

@Andy Steven Summers said:

@serpent222 said:

Batman has embraced and harvested fear.

This pretty much sums up why I believe Bruce was never 'chosen' or a candidate for a Green Lantern Ring. He uses fear as a tool/weapon.

He was offered to join the sinestro corps

#41 Edited by CODYSF (2053 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce has nothing on Hal when it comes to will power

#42 Posted by Extremis (3363 posts) - - Show Bio

Some Bat fans will stop at nothing. I love Batman, but the rate at which people think he is better than everyone is exhausting.

All superheroes have at least decent will power, but Hal Jordan's greatest attribute is will power. Let's not forget, GLs in general have the top will power in the universe. It has been established that Hal has the greatest will power, not just on earth, but of every GL (each of whom was chosen because they have exceptional will power).

Bruce is not even in the same discussion as Hal because 1) Hal has the greatest will of any GL and 2) Bats doesn't even have the will to be chosen as a GL. Guy Gardner was chosen over Bruce. Discussion over.

#43 Posted by sinestro_GL (3322 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal beats all.

I think the Parallax debacle would be enough for many of our favourite heroes to throw in the towel.

Say what you want about Bruce, but I think Hal's will is superior.

#44 Posted by MasonBrunner (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal Jordan has the most willpower of any character in the DCU. People say he lost his mind so his will is weak. He lost a whole city of family and friends, and Parallax was able to leech onto Hal's soul for that moments hesitation, yes, but every character has flaws. Nobody likes a perfect character. There are two reasons the ring chose Hal as the first GL. One, he was the closest choice in proximity, and two, he has the ability to "overcome great fear." I personally think that Batman lacks that second part. Yes, he has faced great evil, but also cannot overcome the thing he fears the most, letting go of his parent's death and the promise he made to them to fight crime. Also, for Bruce, his use of fear against his opponents disqualifies him as a worthy GL. Sinestro's ring rejected him when he used fear to control people, and the ring would do a similar thing with Bruce. One more point to make about Hal having the most will and being the strongest GL, Parallax, the entity of fear itself chose Hal specifically to be his vessel. He wanted to take the symbol of will and break it down. Parallax senses will and chose the strongest will in the universe to try to destroy and so he chose Hal Jordan.

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