Arrow goods and bads

#1 Posted by JamDamage (1110 posts) - - Show Bio

Like a lot of us, we keep watching the new Green Arrow show Arrow. The show is so far...........................okay. I don't know if I like it or not. Some parts I do, but there are so many damn hokey soap opera crap that I wonder why I keep watching it. I think it's to see Deathstroke, but when that's over I don't know if I'll keep watching it. So many characters are going to make appearances so that might keep me watching, but other then that I don't know. The acting is garbage. The plots are weak. I want some feedback

#2 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I think the show is great

Im not sure what do you mean with "the acting is garbage", far from it, its very good, very emotional and captivating specially cause of the "Flashback" feature that it gets we get to see Ollie in the past who is basically a rich kid with no worries and then drop into the unknown and then contrasted to what he become, and the acting is solid on both

Is it soup operish? I guess just a little but no where near the level that was on the first seasons of Smallville and i think the most soapish of all things has been the Dinah/Ollie relationship cause "he caused the death of her sister" so its very basic on its premise and execution but its not a negative

The action scenes are brilliantly directed and are dynamic as hell, but if i have to critizise it is the point there had been many instances where Ollie is outgunned and he has to basically dodge the fire, which inevitably devolves into Stormtroopers syndrome, you know, the bad guys always miss, but it doesnt happen that frequently

and finally the plot

For being an adaptation of a subject like green Arrow this took a lot of liberties but it doesnt like its not Green Arrow, its just very original and well done, My favorite aspect of this series is the family, Ollie never really got a family, its barely mentioned even in his origins, and the way is done feels right

why?

analyze it like this, the original story of Green Arrow in the comics is basically that he was this millionaire then he got into an island and then he returned and he is still a millionaire, Why?

at least with Batman and Bruce Wayne he was always alive but it wasnt Bruce who took care of the money at all, and even if it wasnt for him there was Alfred, Green Arrow never follows that logic at all, so instead in Arrow what we have is that he just dies with his father and the mother takes care of everything, and i love that he rejects taking over the company cause the virtually resolves all of his money problems without actually resorting to some BS that he lost all his money in China or something.

my point is that it keeps the spirit of the character as an snotty millionaire, but it does it in an original and well thought way, and at the same time it adds depth and drama to story cause all of the money issues comes from her own mother, it keeps it in contact but dirrected to him, and probably the best of all, it completely differences it from Bruce Wayne.

the Sister, she is basically a female Roy Harper, but its done well, i doubt she will ever be the sidekick or anything like that in the show but it keeps the same angle of having someone to protect.

as for the driving plot itself, its perfect, It is still Green Arrow, it is still a vigilante and it still keeps the same concept of a robin hood type of hero, his father leaves him a note with the names of all of those who have destroy his own city and its up to him to redeem the name of his family

and i guess i will also mention the DC cameos, with characters like Deathstroke and others it just has done a good job so far and also its something that i think the writers and producers learn from Smallville, cause Smallville didnt use any other DC properties until Way later seasons, here the cameos really make it feel like a real DCU series

Overall if you still think this isnt very good or a good green arrow you only need see how terrible current GA is to see that It could just had been much worse

#3 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

#4 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

how is he like Batman at all?

#5 Edited by TheSwordsman (1954 posts) - - Show Bio

Good: writing, directing, action, casting, diversity, and great representation of humans of different colors and/or ethnicity.

Bad: The pretentious, glassy-eyed, stare after looking down and talking that follows his dramatic speeches or when he is listening intently i.e too much smoldering-glare. Also way too much bow-as-a-hand-to-hand-weapon action and not enough gadget-arrows. Too much killing as well.

#6 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad said:

@JonSmith said:

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

how is he like Batman at all?

Rich playboy, experiences tragedy, goes through hellish training for extensive periods of time, returns to his city to find it corrupted, to the point that police are useless. Sets up a secret underground base, filled with gadgets he can use to wage a one man war against the crime corrupting his city. Covers his actions with a careless, selfish, persona that resembles the one he left with, convincing everyone he's irresponsible so no one suspects he might be the new vigilante. While in vigilante mode, is dark, gritty, and brutal, attacking under the cover of night, hitting fast, taking out his enemies, and then vanishing into the night. People turn around, looking away from him for some reason, and when they turn back around, he's gone. Even pitches his voice deeper while in vigilante mode, as opposed to his lighter and more relaxed cadence in playboy mode. Need I go on? With some further thought, I PROBABLY could. Maybe.

... And I am terribly sorry for the immense run on sentences. My sincere apologies.

#7 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84536 posts) - - Show Bio

I've fallen for the sister, Dinah Lance, and the mother. I couldnt stop watching now even if I wanted to.

Moderator
#8 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@JonSmith said:

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

how is he like Batman at all?

Rich playboy, experiences tragedy, goes through hellish training for extensive periods of time, returns to his city to find it corrupted, to the point that police are useless. Sets up a secret underground base, filled with gadgets he can use to wage a one man war against the crime corrupting his city. Covers his actions with a careless, selfish, persona that resembles the one he left with, convincing everyone he's irresponsible so no one suspects he might be the new vigilante. While in vigilante mode, is dark, gritty, and brutal, attacking under the cover of night, hitting fast, taking out his enemies, and then vanishing into the night. People turn around, looking away from him for some reason, and when they turn back around, he's gone. Even pitches his voice deeper while in vigilante mode, as opposed to his lighter and more relaxed cadence in playboy mode. Need I go on? With some further thought, I PROBABLY could. Maybe.

thats not even remotely close to Arrow at all

for one, the base is not underground, is a warehouse

the only real similarity is that they both are rich playboys but even that is not the same

and just cause they both experienced a tragedy doesnt make it similar at all

Bruce lost his parents, Ollie got stranded in an island

how is that remotely similar?

#9 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad said:

@JonSmith said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@JonSmith said:

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

how is he like Batman at all?

Rich playboy, experiences tragedy, goes through hellish training for extensive periods of time, returns to his city to find it corrupted, to the point that police are useless. Sets up a secret underground base, filled with gadgets he can use to wage a one man war against the crime corrupting his city. Covers his actions with a careless, selfish, persona that resembles the one he left with, convincing everyone he's irresponsible so no one suspects he might be the new vigilante. While in vigilante mode, is dark, gritty, and brutal, attacking under the cover of night, hitting fast, taking out his enemies, and then vanishing into the night. People turn around, looking away from him for some reason, and when they turn back around, he's gone. Even pitches his voice deeper while in vigilante mode, as opposed to his lighter and more relaxed cadence in playboy mode. Need I go on? With some further thought, I PROBABLY could. Maybe.

thats not even remotely close to Arrow at all

for one, the base is not underground, is a warehouse

the only real similarity is that they both are rich playboys but even that is not the same

and just cause they both experienced a tragedy doesnt make it similar at all

Bruce lost his parents, Ollie got stranded in an island

how is that remotely similar?

I was under the impression the base was underneath the warehouse, hence why he wanted to turn said warehouse into a nightclub: So he'd have reason to slip down to his base discreetly and do what needs doing. Much like Bruce occasionally throws a party at Wayne Manor. When he's not being Batman. Which, admittedly, is rare.

Oliver throws wild parties just so people will see him there, so he'll have an alibi for when the vigilante pops up elsewhere. During these parties, he tends to generally act irresponsible when Black Canary and his sister aren't involved. Much like Bruce Wayne.

Both of their tragedies resulted in them pursuing extensive training in addition to deciding upon a life changing mission to free their respective cities of crime.

Ollie's father died at sea, Bruce lost both his parents. Obviously not the same, but yes, it is similar.

So exactly HOW are these things different?

#10 Posted by SupBatz (1690 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

Agreed. His post-island personality leans more in the Batman direction than in the Green Arrow direction. I'm hoping that as time passes he will loosen up a bit.

#11 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@JonSmith said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@JonSmith said:

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

how is he like Batman at all?

Rich playboy, experiences tragedy, goes through hellish training for extensive periods of time, returns to his city to find it corrupted, to the point that police are useless. Sets up a secret underground base, filled with gadgets he can use to wage a one man war against the crime corrupting his city. Covers his actions with a careless, selfish, persona that resembles the one he left with, convincing everyone he's irresponsible so no one suspects he might be the new vigilante. While in vigilante mode, is dark, gritty, and brutal, attacking under the cover of night, hitting fast, taking out his enemies, and then vanishing into the night. People turn around, looking away from him for some reason, and when they turn back around, he's gone. Even pitches his voice deeper while in vigilante mode, as opposed to his lighter and more relaxed cadence in playboy mode. Need I go on? With some further thought, I PROBABLY could. Maybe.

thats not even remotely close to Arrow at all

for one, the base is not underground, is a warehouse

the only real similarity is that they both are rich playboys but even that is not the same

and just cause they both experienced a tragedy doesnt make it similar at all

Bruce lost his parents, Ollie got stranded in an island

how is that remotely similar?

I was under the impression the base was underneath the warehouse, hence why he wanted to turn said warehouse into a nightclub: So he'd have reason to slip down to his base discreetly and do what needs doing. Much like Bruce occasionally throws a party at Wayne Manor. When he's not being Batman. Which, admittedly, is rare.

Oliver throws wild parties just so people will see him there, so he'll have an alibi for when the vigilante pops up elsewhere. During these parties, he tends to generally act irresponsible when Black Canary and his sister aren't involved. Much like Bruce Wayne.

Both of their tragedies resulted in them pursuing extensive training in addition to deciding upon a life changing mission to free their respective cities of crime.

Ollie's father died at sea, Bruce lost both his parents. Obviously not the same, but yes, it is similar.

So exactly HOW are these things different?

the motivation is different

the style is different

the personality is different

the entire backstory is different

and Similar = different

for example

Bruce Wayne is white

Ollie is white

OMG THEY MUST BE THE SAME!

#12 Posted by Loki9876 (2993 posts) - - Show Bio

I really liked episode 5. Just saying.

#13 Posted by Praetor_fenix (222 posts) - - Show Bio

I think is good, even bordering on great sometimes, my only complaint is this Laurel character i don't really see her becoming Black Canary and even then, it's probably just the actress that's bugging me. Otherwise it's good, i mean, Thea is a pain in the ass, but it's mostly understandable and the actress is pretty hot.

#14 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad said:

the motivation is different

the style is different

the personality is different

the entire backstory is different

and Similar = different

for example

Bruce Wayne is white

Ollie is white

OMG THEY MUST BE THE SAME!

I'm telling you how they're the same. You are just saying "WELP, THEY'RE DIFFERENT!" If you can't provide a counter beyond that, then we're done here.

#15 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith: but they are not the same at all

you are saying that they are imilar cause they both have tragic stories

SO?

so every other hero in the comic world

Superman also lost his parents, he must be just like batman

Wonder Woman lost her mother, she must be just like batman

Aquaman lost both his parents, he must be just like batman

thats the extend of your argument

#16 Posted by Goldenboy_Prime (172 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

QFT.

Arrow: what happens when you can't bring Batman to cable TV.

#17 Posted by thegoddessofwar (24 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

#18 Posted by Kyle_Dornez (250 posts) - - Show Bio

Yay, another tread I can complain into!

Good: So meh, it's okay. Well, they do have Harry Dresden there... I can pretend he'll turn out to be Zatara...

Bad: All that "Darker and Edgier" gimmick is kinda getting old by now. It's like "Killing people is bad" has actually to be explained to this dude. And apparently they're going to make it into character development, judging from last episode. Yeah, it took him about half of a season to realise he's doing something wrong. Even Harry Dresden was able to bust him almost immediately, and the series would end right there. Goddamn bodyguard is more likable than the main character, and he's forced to sacrifice his dignitty and dressup in green =__=

And the villains here are apparently good only for one-shots. It's safe to assume that Deathstroke would appear again at least once, but Deadshot and Royal Flush Gang? Not so much.

#19 Posted by Oscars94 (2325 posts) - - Show Bio

I love it! Seen episodes 1 - 4, watching episode 5 tonight! Also what are people's opninions on Ollie killing villains?

#20 Posted by Catsnlynne (1000 posts) - - Show Bio

What I don't like about the show is that they changed his life from the way it was in the comic book. In the comic book Ollie had no parents or siblings and the boat did not sink in a storm nor was his father on the boat with him when it did. I don't see why they had to change things. And for Deathstroke they get you all excited that he's going to be on, and then he's on for what maybe five minutes?
#21 Posted by Squalleon (4143 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@JonSmith said:

Goods: He's Batman.

Bads: He's Batman.

how is he like Batman at all?

Rich playboy, experiences tragedy

Ollie saw his parents gettin eaten by a lion in the comics!

But i guess that doesn't count right...........................................?

#22 Posted by SoA (4695 posts) - - Show Bio

im liking the show , i look forward to it every week

on a separate note if there is so much nitpicking over arrow , where is the hate threads for the walking dead show?

you talk about garbage that show is garbage , if anyone can send me links to those threads i'd appreciate it! lol

#23 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad said:

@JonSmith: but they are not the same at all

you are saying that they are imilar cause they both have tragic stories

SO?

so every other hero in the comic world

Superman also lost his parents, he must be just like batman

Wonder Woman lost her mother, she must be just like batman

Aquaman lost both his parents, he must be just like batman

thats the extend of your argument

I'm not saying they're similar JUST because they have tragic stories. That's merely one factor. The way they solve crime, and cover their own rears is similar in tone: Dark, gritty, and mildly realistic, involving detective work, gadgets, and then brutal violence, striking from the shadows quickly is Batman's style. In this show, Arrow does the same thing. To cover his activities as Batman, Bruce created a persona of selfish indulgence. Arrow acts the EXACT same way as Oliver Queen. Oliver has already shown that his obsession over stopping crime trumps nearly all other relations, just like another, bat themed superhero. Need I go on?

#24 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@JonSmith: but they are not the same at all

you are saying that they are imilar cause they both have tragic stories

SO?

so every other hero in the comic world

Superman also lost his parents, he must be just like batman

Wonder Woman lost her mother, she must be just like batman

Aquaman lost both his parents, he must be just like batman

thats the extend of your argument

I'm not saying they're similar JUST because they have tragic stories. That's merely one factor. The way they solve crime, and cover their own rears is similar in tone: Dark, gritty, and mildly realistic, involving detective work, gadgets, and then brutal violence, striking from the shadows quickly is Batman's style. In this show, Arrow does the same thing. To cover his activities as Batman, Bruce created a persona of selfish indulgence. Arrow acts the EXACT same way as Oliver Queen. Oliver has already shown that his obsession over stopping crime trumps nearly all other relations, just like another, bat themed superhero. Need I go on?

But the similarities that you are drawing here are superficial at best, Arrow doesnt just want to stop crime he wants to redeem the name of his father and bring to justice to all the guys in his dad's book, he has a set objective which makes him not only different from Batman but also different from pretty much all versions of Green Arrow

in fact Green Arrow is more similar to Batman in the comic, and this very beyond that

and other similarities, like Detective Work, using gadgets and violence

what costume vigilante(without superpowers) doesnt do that?

what you are describing is the base of every single human superhero in existence not a base on Batman.

#25 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14587 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler said:

I've fallen for the sister, Dinah Lance, and the mother. I couldnt stop watching now even if I wanted to.

She's mine!

#26 Posted by Damian_Arrows (53 posts) - - Show Bio

yes. i like this show. it's getting better. you can watch entire episodes on the cw site. they have them all uploaded. i think diggle is a good character. also, i like hearing ollie say his name. haha, diggle.

#27 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler said:

I've fallen for the sister, Dinah Lance, and the mother. I couldnt stop watching now even if I wanted to.

me too. also joanna (laurel's colleague)

#28 Posted by Z3RO180 (6311 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: see in the comics did a china man train oliver how to use a bow and arrow?

#29 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84536 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180: Not necessarily a bow and arrow but yeah, he was in a way (Natas)

Moderator
#30 Posted by ltbrd (561 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: Though you are correct to point out the differences, I think you are not being honest in how much the show is trying to utilize the perception of Batman and some of the "rules" of the character in order to bring a more grounded, gritter edge to this new characterization of Green Arrow. Though his character is not a Batman-clone, the CW would have been stupid not to try and bring the large non-comic book audience generated by Nolan's Batman trilogy into this show by giving them a product similar to what they had just experienced in 3 movies. Its all about characterization, not just events. Take away the origin pieces of Batman and the key element of the character is a man obsessed. Its been stated hundreds of times in the comics, tv shows, and movies by not just Alfred, Gordon, Dick or any other Robin but by the entire Justice League at one point or another as well as many other heroes and villains. Bruce/Batman is defined by his obsessive desires to bring justice and the end of crime to Gotham. This version of Oliver Queen is the exact same way. That he's doing it to redeem his family and father's image is not important, just as the death of Bruce's parents isn't important. Its in their characterizations. Its already been stated multiple times in the show by Oliver himself that all that matters is his mission, that he can't focus on a true family life, that he has to keep those he loves in the dark.......all of which have been stated by Batman as well through multiple media forms.

Are their cosmetic similarities, yes, but their are also differences. In the end it comes down to the tone of both the show and the character and its clear the writers and producers of this show wanted to go a more Dark Knight route than in the comics or even his previous tv depiction in the Smallville series......which, btw, utilized a grittier Green Arrow when he first appeared in season 6 because the show wanted a Batman character but wasn't allowed to use Batman. Though his depiction moved between Batman-esque and Green Arrow comic depictions through seasons 6, 7, and 8 by the middle of the 9th season they settled on his comic book depiction and so he was more carefree and open in the last season and a half than he was the previous three. So this isn't a true new depiction of the Emerald Archer, its just the farthest into anti-hero that any depiction has gone before.

#31 Posted by ltbrd (561 posts) - - Show Bio

Now to answer this thread.

Good:

- The darker tone. A superhero show doesn't have to be all rainbows and sunshine and Green Arrow is a street-level character so he's going to be closer to danger and death than, say, Superman. Though Smallville never found a solid tone for its show, I give the producers and writers of Arrow credit for setting one early and running with it.

- Small plot developments rather than big character leaps. Though its been strange to see a show split episode time between the main hero and so many other characters, they draw the audience away from Oliver just long enough to get a plot point or character development scene down and then move back to the main story. Its been nice to see Dinah and Tommy not have to be around Oliver and subject to standing around waiting for him or wandering where he's gone off to and ensures we don't get repeated "Lois Lane moments" (though technically with Smallville they were more Lana Lang and Chloe Sullivan moments).

- They didn't keep the running gap going. It would be painful to watch if by episode 7 Oliver was still eluding his bodyguard and making the poor guy look stupid. It was a fun idea that worked to give the show much needed humor in the first few episodes but a wise decision to stop it when the right moment came up.

- Death. I know a lot of people are going to say this is a bad thing, but I think its a good change of pace from what we would expect of this type of show. We wouldn't be saying anything if this was a cop show and episodes had gunfights and hostage situations. Its just that we insist comic book shows follow comic book rules and I'm glad to be watching a show that beats that idea away and presents the death of those in it with respect and the restraint to know that Green Arrow can't go around killing everyone, but that doesn't mean he won't every once and awhile. It works very well with the darker tone of the show because there aren't bodies piling up all over the place.

Bad:

- Speedy. Its not the nickname that bothers me, just her entire characterization. She just doesn't feel necessary to the show at this point. It might have been better to actually show her being very responsible and sort of an apprentice to her mother and stepfather in the company and so her disapproval comes in seeing Oliver fall back into his old ways because she's gone a different path with her life. Instead we get the "typical" teenager response to tragedy. I put typical in quotes because its not to say going out and getting high and wasted is the path everyone takes when their father and brother are presumed dead for 5 years. Its just the path tv writers seem to think everyone takes and its dull and generally pointless to the plot of the show. This depiction isn't any different and its not to say the actress isn't good, just that her character hasn't been utilized properly yet.

- Sidekick. Yeah, I know, he's not really a sidekick and hopefully Diggle will continue to grow, but right now he's more Jimminy Cricket than useful character. After he donned the hood for a bit I thought we were going to see more of him in the field but then he got regulated to the warehouse. Hopefully the writers will be able to get him back onto the streets (possibly as Oliver goes a bit off track due to his relationship with Helena????) and out from behind the computer.

- No mask. Now, I'm not saying bring back the polarized sun glasses. That's not a great disguise aspect either. But simply painting green around the eyes isn't a mask. Plus, how can he get all the paint off without even reddening his face is beyond me (if you've never tried to get camouflage paint off before its not easy) or that he doesn't leave even a smear mark afterwards. I get they don't want to go the traditional mask route, but why not just copy Conner Hawke and have him wear a bandana around his eyes. Its easy to put on, can be stored in pockets, and if his hood falls down (as it has already) and his face is exposed at least part of his face is still covered. The paint just looks silly and it just sort of appears. They never actually show him putting it on or pulling out a can of the stuff so you really don't get a sense of where the heck it comes from.

- Starling City? I just don't see the need for a name change. It never sounded like it had to do with character rights and just feels like it was done to further stamp this product as unique. But it comes off sounding a bit stupid. Not saying Star City doesn't sound like something out of a Mega Man game, but it was short and sweet and Starling City just sounds overemphasized and unnecessary.

Overall I think the show is doing a great job and seems to have survived the early season cut deadline. Hopefully it will continue to go strong with some developments from episode 7 that look to kick its plot momentum up a bit more from the episode 5 and 6 lag (a slight one but noticeable). I'm glad they didn't copy the Smallville formula and took just enough thematic elements from Nolan's Batman trilogy to work effectively in the atmosphere they're trying to create.

#32 Posted by tupiaz (2170 posts) - - Show Bio

Abut difference between Bruce Wayne and Green Lantern is as far as I know that Green Arrow can kill if he wants to. The no killing rule is not a part of Green Arrow in the same way it is to Batman. At least according to Mike Grell. Now and here it gets more trickey and I'm more unsure. But Green Arrow has a general problem with the society (for instance he became a Major to change the society). Where bruce is more about the criminal person and his pscyh. So even though the deals with same kind of problems there look towards the problems is different.

#33 Posted by greenk (25 posts) - - Show Bio

The good - Oliver - perfect casting. Way ahead of that pretty boy Hartley, Amell nails the role perfectly.

The bad: Dinah - atrocious casting. You tell me Katie Cassidy is the best these people could do for a lead female role? She is the weakest actor out of everybody, and thats saying something because lots of actors on Arrow are not very good.

The unecessary - Sidekick not yet sidekick little sister, sidekick Alfred 2.0, sidekick Chloe 2.0, starLING city, lots of soap opera drama.

#34 Posted by Vitaeleous (70 posts) - - Show Bio

: I'm going to weigh in here, and try and provide a little depth. The biggest difference I see off the bat (or from The Bat...unintentional pun, I swear) is the willingness to take a life. Ollie's experiences on the Island hardened him, turned him into a hunter and a killer. This is where it becomes clear that the show is drawing heavily on Grell's 1987 work with the character in Longbow Hunters, the first time comics ever saw Green Arrow willingly take a life. Batman is built around this core principle that he will never, under any circumstances, take a life. The tenet's been there from day one, and he's stuck to it. We're seeing Ollie start out as a killer; he's being confronted about his willingness to kill, but he hasn't changed. not yet. There's a lot of potential development for the character there. So, that's one big difference.

Another is the death of the parents matter. Bruce lost his parents, both of them to a murder he witnessed as a kid. He used to blame himself for the death, but he's long since gotten over that (or he had...I don't really know where New 52 Bats stands on that issue). He knows that his parents were doing a lot of good in Gotham, and he sets out to fix the city the only way he knows how, and honour his parents' memory. Not too different from Ollie, at first, trying to fix the broken city he loves. But his motivation is a lot different. He's not continuing his father's work, he's trying to repair the damage his father did. He saw his dad kill himself, and he still has a mother. He also has a lot to discover about his mother, but that's another topic. There's also a matter of age at time of parents' death; Ollie was a lot older and a lot more worldly when the tragedy happened. he has a better understanding of it than Bruce was capable of that night in Crime Alley. There are many similarities, but because of these key differences the characters have been shaped very differently.

The idea of the rich, playboy alter ego is a hold-over from the inception of these characters. Green Arrow was literally created as a facsimile of Batman in the early '40s. He had an Arrow-plane, an Arrow-Car, an Arrow-Cave, was summoned with an Arrow Signal, and fought alongside a young sidekick in red. So it's no wonder we're still seeing parallels between the characters today. What's interesting is to consider why the playboy is an effective alter-ego for each hero. The alter ego should, theoretically, be an effective opposite of the world's perception of the hero, so that it'll never be assumed that one is the other. So. no one guesses that the bumbling and foolish Clark Kent is actually the heroic, stupidly buff Superman. So if the playboy persona is the opposite of both Batman and Green Arrow, but they don't stand for the same thing, how does that work? Food for thought.

#35 Posted by Vitaeleous (70 posts) - - Show Bio

Now, I might have an answer to your questioning the name change, because that also had me intrigued: why would they change the comics' perfectly good Star City into Starling City? So I did some digging. And some reading. And came up with a hypothesis. If you've read Mike Grell's 1987 Longbow Hunters run you may have realized by now that Arrow is channeling Grell pretty directly. Longbow Hunters was keystone for a number of reasons. It was the first time comics saw Green Arrow deliberately take a life, making a blatant shift from his trademark gadget arrows to plain old broadheads. The character was never referred to as Green Arrow; in fact, the whole time Grell wrote the character there was no real mention of superheroes. If Ollie ever interacted with other characters from the DC universe (Hal, for example) it was on a man-to-man basis, not as heroes. He never wore a mask. And Grell decided to move the character to Seattle, a city notorious for its uncontrollable population of...starlings. So my theory is that, as a nod to Mike Grell and the way he helped shape the character, the CW has opted for a name that echoes the city we all associate with the character but has a referential connection to the setting Grell chose for the Emerald Archer.

The show's doing a lot of this, actually. Blending different parts of the character, using his past mythos as a toybox from which they can pull whatever tickles their fancy. Like Speedy. Right now she's a pretty accurate blend of Roy Harper, the first Speedy, whose drug addiction merited the publication of a letter from the mayor of New York complimenting Denny O'Neill on his social consciousness and Mia Dearden, the ex-prostitute and the first HIV-postive comic book character who became the second Speedy. Both these characters carried a lot of weight in their comics. Both of them presented issues that really hit home for readers. And I have a feeling that having them blended in the form of Ollie's sister is going to lead to some incredible drama in the future (for the record, "drama" is not always a bad thing). So, I see a lot of potential in this character that is seemingly being dismissed by the majority of viewers.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

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