Anybody Else Upset With...?

#1 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio

This.  

 
 For a number of reasons, I'm glad I don't have children (that I know of) yet.  First among these reasons this evening is:  I cannot get my head around an impressionable son or daughter seeing this cover in the store and not seriously losing his/her $#&%.  Imagine taking your child to the comic store today to pick up a Johnny DC book like Batman: The Brave & The Bold or Billy Batson & The Magic of SHAZAM!, and then, while you're distracted looking at back issues of pornographic Poison Elves or something, Lil Bandito/Bandita comes and tugs on your sleeve holding the latest Green Arrow and says, "Daddy, what's wrong with Robin Hood's face?"  I mean, seriously?  How horrible a spot would that put you in--having to explain death, physics and false advertising all at the same time?

I commented on this when the book was first solicited months ago and didn't see anybody else upset.  Most commented that the cover art looked "sick", but I assume in the hip, cool way, and not the what-the-Hell-is-wrong-with-DC way.

So, now that the book is on the shelves, does anyone have a problem with it?  Would this actually bother kids or their parents in this day and age?  Do any comic shop employees feel dirty putting this on the stands?  (Again: the bad kind of "dirty".)    
#2 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

Heh, awesome analysis. Isn't it covered with something?

#3 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio

what a cry baby

#4 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula: Well, it is a little beyond the pale.
#5 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
" @Caligula: Well, it is a little beyond the pale. "
so what, death is part of human nature. no matter how much you want to you can't protect your kids or and loved one for that matter from reality. and if you try it will cripple them.
 
I know it can be difficult to explain things. but really do you want your children living in a world that they don't understand?
#6 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula: Okay, but it's not like you would bring your kids through a grisly murder scene. You just have a talk with them when their goldfish starts swimming upside down.
#7 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
" @Caligula: Okay, but it's not like you would bring your kids through a grisly murder scene. You just have a talk with them when their goldfish starts swimming upside down. "
lol.
 
i don't consider a fictional character dying a "Grizzly Murder Scene" though. i would agree if it was like snuff or real. but this is fantasy make believe.
#8 Edited by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula: I think that cover is pretty grisly. Granted, it's just an illustration, but a bloody guy's got an arrow sticking out of his head.
#9 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
" @Caligula: I think that cover is pretty grisly. Granted, it's just an illustration, but a bloody guy's got an arrow sticking out of his head. "
yeah. but still.
 
I think if you take away our rights as artists too draw or write or compose what we wish. it fails to be freedom and becomes tyranny
#10 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula: I'm not saying it should be banned, or the creators should be arrested for obscenity. I just think they shouldn't leave it out for kids to see. Put a cover over it or something. That's what they do with adult stuff.
#11 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
" @Caligula: I'm not saying it should be banned, or the creators should be arrested for obscenity. I just think they shouldn't leave it out for kids to see. Put a cover over it or something. That's what they do with adult stuff. "
fair nuff.
 
but then what if a reader like myself wants to skim it before buying. i skim most comics before buying.
#12 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @Jotham said:
" @Caligula: I think that cover is pretty grisly. Granted, it's just an illustration, but a bloody guy's got an arrow sticking out of his head. "
yeah. but still.  I think if you take away our rights as artists too draw or write or compose what we wish. it fails to be freedom and becomes tyranny "
Cascioli or any artist for that matter can draw any person he wants dying in any way he wants.  I'm not talking about infringing on "artistic freedom"; this is commerce.  DC is a corporation that tries to covet young readers.  It's one thing to show Roy Harper with his arm ripped off inside the book, but to put that image on the cover where anyone can see it--that doesn't blur the line of poor taste?
#13 Posted by ForbushBug (496 posts) - - Show Bio

At least you know the contents aren't for kids then. Can't say the same about some of Marvel's rated "A" stuff.

#14 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:
" @Caligula said:
" @Jotham said:
" @Caligula: I think that cover is pretty grisly. Granted, it's just an illustration, but a bloody guy's got an arrow sticking out of his head. "
yeah. but still.  I think if you take away our rights as artists too draw or write or compose what we wish. it fails to be freedom and becomes tyranny "
Cascioli or any artist for that matter can draw any person he wants dying in any way he wants.  I'm not talking about infringing on "artistic freedom"; this is commerce.  DC is a corporation that tries to covet young readers.  It's one thing to show Roy Harper with his arm ripped off inside the book, but to put that image on the cover where anyone can see it--that doesn't blur the line of poor taste? "
no it's not poor taste not in the last.
 
first off DC has always been slightly more adult oriented then Marvel. and secondly it's all just pretend sir.
#15 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you for that clarification, because for a minute I thought that was a real live person skewered on the cover.  Batman's not fictional, too, is he? 
 
I'm not saying the image offends me.  I happen to like the art; I think it's symbolic that Green Arrow is a dead character whose book cannot be saved by any writer or reboot.  The issue is kids' notions of what's real and what's not are a bit more fluid than yours or mine.  Talk to a kid who has just cried his eyes out after watching Bambi.   
 
Should kids be shielded from real issues like death forever?  No, of course not.  Should they see it in gory, graphic detail when they go to a bookstore and flip through the comic spindle looking for Super Hero Squad or something?

#16 Posted by Sexy Merc (42076 posts) - - Show Bio

I would probably start by saying that isn't Robin Hood, then just avoiding conversation.

#17 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc said:
" I would probably start by saying that isn't Robin Hood, then just avoiding conversation. "
Hmm... Like my dad.
#18 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:
" Thank you for that clarification, because for a minute I thought that was a real live person skewered on the cover.  Batman's not fictional, too, is he? 
 
I'm not saying the image offends me.  I happen to like the art; I think it's symbolic that Green Arrow is a dead character whose book cannot be saved by any writer or reboot.  The issue is kids' notions of what's real and what's not are a bit more fluid than yours or mine.  Talk to a kid who has just cried his eyes out after watching Bambi.   
 
Should kids be shielded from real issues like death forever?  No, of course not.  Should they see it in gory, graphic detail when they go to a bookstore and flip through the comic spindle looking for Super Hero Squad or something? "
well you are getting bent and twisted like it's a snuff film sir.
 
also Green Arrow is not a dead character.
 
and also if your child has not been taught the distinction between real life and fiction than thats on you. that's how kids die by jumping off the roof thinking they can fly. it's your job as a responsible adult to teach them these things.
 
and if your comic store is placing green arrow books next to super hero squad then you need to find a new store. because your shop is ran by incompetent nimrods.
#19 Posted by danhimself (22585 posts) - - Show Bio

so you don't even have kids and you're b!tching about the cover?  You should start going to Westboro Church

Online
#20 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:
" so you don't even have kids and you're b!tching about the cover?  You should start going to Westboro Church "
he was offended. sad bandito is sad
#21 Posted by Citizen 14 (1236 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:
" so you don't even have kids and you're b!tching about the cover?  You should start going to Westboro Church "
BAHAHAHA!
#22 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:
" so you don't even have kids and you're b!tching about the cover?  You should start going to Westboro Church "
Yeah, it's true, I possess the power of empathy.  I'm not Jewish either but that whole Holocaust thing really depressed me, too.
#23 Posted by danhimself (22585 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:
" @danhimself said:
" so you don't even have kids and you're b!tching about the cover?  You should start going to Westboro Church "
Yeah, it's true, I possess the power of empathy.  I'm not Jewish either but that whole Holocaust thing really depressed me, too. "
comics are under so much scrutiny now a days and are being attacked on so many fronts....the last thing we need is a comic book reader complaining about the content of them...you should be defending covers like this instead of complaining about them
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#24 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @Jotham said:
" @Caligula: I'm not saying it should be banned, or the creators should be arrested for obscenity. I just think they shouldn't leave it out for kids to see. Put a cover over it or something. That's what they do with adult stuff. "
fair nuff.  but then what if a reader like myself wants to skim it before buying. i skim most comics before buying. "
You're stealing intellectual property through your eyes!
#25 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
" @Caligula said:
" @Jotham said:
" @Caligula: I'm not saying it should be banned, or the creators should be arrested for obscenity. I just think they shouldn't leave it out for kids to see. Put a cover over it or something. That's what they do with adult stuff. "
fair nuff.  but then what if a reader like myself wants to skim it before buying. i skim most comics before buying. "
You're stealing intellectual property through your eyes! "
lol the people at my comic shop are cool with it. they want to make sure you like it before you buy it
#26 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:
" @Bandito said:
" @danhimself said:
" so you don't even have kids and you're b!tching about the cover?  You should start going to Westboro Church "
Yeah, it's true, I possess the power of empathy.  I'm not Jewish either but that whole Holocaust thing really depressed me, too. "
comics are under so much scrutiny now a days and are being attacked on so many fronts....the last thing we need is a comic book reader complaining about the content of them...you should be defending covers like this instead of complaining about them "
preach on brother Dan!
support the comic community
 
Bandito is the reason comics like Tales from the Crypt and the Punisher are tamed down now
#27 Posted by ForbushBug (496 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:
" @danhimself said:
" so you don't even have kids and you're b!tching about the cover?  You should start going to Westboro Church "
Yeah, it's true, I possess the power of empathy.  I'm not Jewish either but that whole Holocaust thing really depressed me, too. "
Comparing a fictional event to a real life genocide. Ooooookay. And that's getting pretty close to Godwin's Law territory.
#28 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said: 
comics are under so much scrutiny now a days and are being attacked on so many fronts....the last thing we need is a comic book reader complaining about the content of them...you should be defending covers like this instead of complaining about them "
No, the ONLY thing we should complain about is the content, because that's all that matters.  And cover art is part of that content.  And I'll defend any artist's right to draw anything, except when a company makes money putting it on newsstands where anyone can see it.  Again: put it inside--make it page one, for all I care.  But that image on a cover, available for anyone to see, could be legitimately disturbing to a lot of people, and not just kids.
#29 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@ForbushBug said:
" @Bandito said:
" @danhimself said:
" so you don't even have kids and you're b!tching about the cover?  You should start going to Westboro Church "
Yeah, it's true, I possess the power of empathy.  I'm not Jewish either but that whole Holocaust thing really depressed me, too. "
Comparing a fictional event to a real life genocide. Ooooookay. And that's getting pretty close to Godwin's Law territory. "
seriously though are you surprised in the least. he is they guy acting like this cover is snuff. when it's all just pretend
#30 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@ForbushBug said: 

omparing a fictional event to a real life genocide. Ooooookay. And that's getting pretty close to Godwin's Law territory. "


@ForbushBug said:

Comparing a fictional event to a real life genocide. Ooooookay. And that's getting pretty close to Godwin's Law territory. "

 
     That's not what I was doing.  I was comparing being upset by one thing that doesn't affect me personally to being upset by a different thing that didn't affect me personally.
#31 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula:  
 
Do you think a movie like Kill Bill should air with Saturday morning cartoons?
#32 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:
" @danhimself said: 
comics are under so much scrutiny now a days and are being attacked on so many fronts....the last thing we need is a comic book reader complaining about the content of them...you should be defending covers like this instead of complaining about them "
No, the ONLY thing we should complain about is the content, because that's all that matters.  And cover art is part of that content.  And I'll defend any artist's right to draw anything, except when a company makes money putting it on newsstands where anyone can see it.  Again: put it inside--make it page one, for all I care.  But that image on a cover, available for anyone to see, could be legitimately disturbing to a lot of people, and not just kids. "
So now you have the right to tell other how to do business?
#33 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:
" @Caligula:  
 
Do you think a movie like Kill Bill should air with Saturday morning cartoons? "
why not.
I would let my kids watch Kill Bill. I would let my kids watch Nightmare on Elm st. im not an uptight prick.
 
I grew up watching all of those things. and im just find. I saw Evildead at four years old, and loved it. sure it scared me but that's it's intention.
#34 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said: 
So now you have the right to tell other how to do business? "
Uh, yeah, if they expect my business, yes.  That's how businesses work.  If they don't do what consumers want, they don't stay in business.
#35 Edited by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:

" @Caligula said: 

So now you have the right to tell other how to do business? "
Uh, yeah, if they expect my business, yes.  That's how businesses work.  If they don't do what consumers want, they don't stay in business. "
you are one consumer. and obviously more people think that it should be the way it is. so therefore your theory has blown up in your face. a professional business is not gonna change for one whiny self important baby.
#36 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @Bandito said:
" @Caligula:  
 
Do you think a movie like Kill Bill should air with Saturday morning cartoons? "
why not. I would let my kids watch Kill Bill. I would let my kids watch Nightmare on Elm st. im not an uptight prick.  I grew up watching all of those things. and im just find. I saw Evildead at four years old, and loved it. sure it scared me but that's it's intention. "
You're just... what?
#37 Edited by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:

" @Caligula said:

" @Bandito said:
" @Caligula:  
 
Do you think a movie like Kill Bill should air with Saturday morning cartoons? "
why not. I would let my kids watch Kill Bill. I would let my kids watch Nightmare on Elm st. im not an uptight prick.  I grew up watching all of those things. and im just find. I saw Evildead at four years old, and loved it. sure it scared me but that's it's intention. "
You're just... what? "
fine it was a typo. if your argument is reduced to pointing out my typos then you have already lost the debate sir. good day
#38 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula said:
" @Bandito said:

" @Caligula said:

" @Bandito said:
" @Caligula:  
 
Do you think a movie like Kill Bill should air with Saturday morning cartoons? "
why not. I would let my kids watch Kill Bill. I would let my kids watch Nightmare on Elm st. im not an uptight prick.  I grew up watching all of those things. and im just find. I saw Evildead at four years old, and loved it. sure it scared me but that's it's intention. "
You're just... what? "
fine it was a typo. if your argument is reduced to pointing out my typos then you have already lost the debate sir. good day "
I'll reduce my argument to pointing out ignorance and irony and call it a victory.  And for the record, your first comment in this thread was calling me a cry baby,  But if you're that certain that I'm the childish one, fine, I'll say good day, as well.
#39 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:
" @Caligula said:
" @Bandito said:

" @Caligula said:

" @Bandito said:
" @Caligula:  
 
Do you think a movie like Kill Bill should air with Saturday morning cartoons? "
why not. I would let my kids watch Kill Bill. I would let my kids watch Nightmare on Elm st. im not an uptight prick.  I grew up watching all of those things. and im just find. I saw Evildead at four years old, and loved it. sure it scared me but that's it's intention. "
You're just... what? "
fine it was a typo. if your argument is reduced to pointing out my typos then you have already lost the debate sir. good day "
I'll reduce my argument to pointing out ignorance and irony and call it a victory.  And for the record, your first comment in this thread was calling me a cry baby,  But if you're that certain that I'm the childish one, fine, I'll say good day, as well. "
cause typos make me ignorant. (just so you know, you used the word wrong).
#40 Posted by Kid_Zombie (824 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito:
Whatever. I know In the 5 comic stores I go to, they have comics like this on the top shelf and kid comics on the bottom shelf. It's not a big deal. I know i've been asked questions like this by my 6 year old niece many times and i explain it to her and say simply `what is it?" And she simply responds "it's fake and doesn't happen in real life." It's a system we got. If anything, you SHOULD explain in detail about this kind of stuff. Kids are smarter then you think and respect you more when you treat them with respect and not like they should be hiden from everything.  Your basic argument here is that you dont want to spend the time explaining things to kids. Well when you have kids thats what you do from explaining rules in a hockey game and why they fight to something like this.
 
@Caligula said:
" @Bandito said:
" @Caligula:  
 
Do you think a movie like Kill Bill should air with Saturday morning cartoons? "
why not. I would let my kids watch Kill Bill. I would let my kids watch Nightmare on Elm st. im not an uptight prick.  I grew up watching all of those things. and im just find. I saw Evildead at four years old, and loved it. sure it scared me but that's it's intention. "

I saw nightmare on Elm Street when I was 4 ha ha.
#41 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kid_Zombie said:
" @Bandito:
Whatever. I know In the 5 comic stores I go to, they have comics like this on the top shelf and kid comics on the bottom shelf. It's not a big deal. I know i've been asked questions like this by my 6 year old niece many times and i explain it to her and say simply `what is it?" And she simply responds "it's fake and doesn't happen in real life." It's a system we got. If anything, you SHOULD explain in detail about this kind of stuff. Kids are smarter then you think and respect you more when you treat them with respect and not like they should be hiden from everything.  Your basic argument here is that you dont want to spend the time explaining things to kids. Well when you have kids thats what you do from explaining rules in a hockey game and why they fight to something like this.
 
@Caligula said:
" @Bandito said:
" @Caligula:  
 
Do you think a movie like Kill Bill should air with Saturday morning cartoons? "
why not. I would let my kids watch Kill Bill. I would let my kids watch Nightmare on Elm st. im not an uptight prick.  I grew up watching all of those things. and im just find. I saw Evildead at four years old, and loved it. sure it scared me but that's it's intention. "
I saw nightmare on Elm Street when I was 4 ha ha. "
I agree with everything you said to bandito.
 
and as for NOES, im sure just like me you grew up into a perfectly fine adult, with no serious damage to your psyche. well for all i know you could be a serial killer.. or that vampire that's living next door to me.
#42 Posted by Kid_Zombie (824 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula: You're on to me! Ha ha yes i am perfectly fine human being minus my addiction to comics and movies
#43 Posted by EisforExtinction (1909 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bandito said:
" This.  
 
 For a number of reasons, I'm glad I don't have children (that I know of) yet.  First among these reasons this evening is:  I cannot get my head around an impressionable son or daughter seeing this cover in the store and not seriously losing his/her $#&%.  Imagine taking your child to the comic store today to pick up a Johnny DC book like Batman: The Brave & The Bold or Billy Batson & The Magic of SHAZAM!, and then, while you're distracted looking at back issues of pornographic Poison Elves or something, Lil Bandito/Bandita comes and tugs on your sleeve holding the latest Green Arrow and says, "Daddy, what's wrong with Robin Hood's face?"  I mean, seriously?  How horrible a spot would that put you in--having to explain death, physics and false advertising all at the same time? I commented on this when the book was first solicited months ago and didn't see anybody else upset.  Most commented that the cover art looked "sick", but I assume in the hip, cool way, and not the what-the-Hell-is-wrong-with-DC way. So, now that the book is on the shelves, does anyone have a problem with it?  Would this actually bother kids or their parents in this day and age?  Do any comic shop employees feel dirty putting this on the stands?  (Again: the bad kind of "dirty".)     "
Seriously? They've been showing dead superheroes on covers since the 70s.
#44 Posted by Bandito (187 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kid_Zombie said:
" @Bandito:
Whatever. I know In the 5 comic stores I go to, they have comics like this on the top shelf and kid comics on the bottom shelf. It's not a big deal. I know i've been asked questions like this by my 6 year old niece many times and i explain it to her and say simply `what is it?" And she simply responds "it's fake and doesn't happen in real life." It's a system we got. If anything, you SHOULD explain in detail about this kind of stuff. Kids are smarter then you think and respect you more when you treat them with respect and not like they should be hiden from everything.  Your basic argument here is that you dont want to spend the time explaining things to kids. Well when you have kids thats what you do from explaining rules in a hockey game and why they fight to something like this.
 
"
You make a very good point.  What's more, you're able to articulate it without sounding like an angry fifteen year-old wearing a My Chemical Romance T-shirt and dreaming about someday meeting a woman.  Good job!
#45 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

At least it wasn't Cry For Justice.    
 
Imagine having to explain that Green Arrow is a cold blooded murderer and that DC editorial thinks murder and justice go hand in hand. 

#46 Posted by .Longshot. (5264 posts) - - Show Bio

Good point. The part I was most upset about was that that was his character pic on his comic vine page for a good long while. Nobody respects the arrow anymore.

#47 Posted by Xangel (72 posts) - - Show Bio

this isn't a kids book, if you ask publishers and artists making mature content to dumb it down so the offhand set of prying childs eyes don't get offended then you're going to loose your core audience; i've seen covers "worse" than this before and no one really raises a fuss.

#48 Posted by PowerHerc (84378 posts) - - Show Bio

It's very good artwork, but I can see why some might not lkke it.  I, personally, do.
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