The main protagonist and hero of the Dragon Ball manga series and animated television series created by Akira Toriyama. He is one of the survivors of the extinct Saiyan race. Sent as a baby to planet Earth in order to destroy it. When he arrived he was a violent kid, due to his warrior nature. However, he suffered an accident which made him lose his memory. He became a kind and calm kid. Trained, he became a talented martial artist and world's greatest defender.
@SMDfanboys: wow. so little action!! astounded. its only a page. the amount of action is sufficient for a page. this amount of action happens in 3 episode of dbz. this just 1 page. so yeah. you can stop now. you are not proving anything.
Oh really? Goku vs Frieza? You obviously have never read the manga.
Proving your ignorant ass wrong is fun! Keep it up
@SMDfanboys: wow. so little action!! astounded. its only a page. the amount of action is sufficient for a page. this amount of action happens in 3 episode of dbz. this just 1 page. so yeah. you can stop now. you are not proving anything.
Oh really? Goku vs Frieza? You obviously have never read the manga.
Proving your ignorant ass wrong is fun! Keep it up
Ignore the bottom half of the image past SS3 Goku since it uses dub errors to prove its point. So yeah, Goku is FTL, especially if you go with the other image that said he was at 24 billion in SS3.
Though really, no one truly demonstrated FTL speed until Vegetto as Buu couldn't keep up with him because he moved faster than the light of his aura.
You two that are turning this into a flame war. The STOP IT. TAKE IT OVER PM!
As for the speed of DBZ, yes indeed they are fast. As an exmplaexample remember when Piccolo fired a beam at the moon and the amount of time it took to reach it or how much time it took to shoot cooler and brolly to the sun it took seconds. These kind of attacks are actually dodged by the z fighters.
So yes there is plenty of proof as to how fast the z fighters are.
By the way, I know EXACTLY why the fan that made that fake power level scan put Goku's power level at 24 billion. 150 million x16 = 24 billion. The multipliers for SS2 and SS3 were stated in the Super Exciting Guide. SS2 is 2x more than SS1 and SS3 is 4x more than SS2.
But, that's actually very poor logic/power scaling. Akira Toriyama himself stated that he always thought of SS1 as closer to a x100 multiplier. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Goku's power increased by x50 from his full power level. Goku was wounded though by the time he transformed. In fact, just a couple scenes before he was almost entirely out of power. This is why the writers for GT decided to have Rildo state that Super Saiyan is a x100 increase.
That also doesn't take into account any other power increases between the Frieza and Buu sagas. Goku must have gotten a significant Zenkai after recovering from his fight with Frieza, not to mention his many many years of training and other Zenkais he should have received from his fights with Android 19, Cell, Pikkon, (if you count that as canon) Vegeta, Fat Buu and Kid Buu.
The x50 vs x100 thing alone would put Goku at 48 billion. If you believe his years of training and Zenkais were worth a thing then that would put him significantly higher.
Does anyone know how fast the energy balls go that they shoot? because those go from here to the moon in a matter of seconds and that happens in the beginning of DBZ when most people were weaker. At the end of DBZ wouldn't the kamemeha's and stuff go even faster with SSJ3 goku and stuff?
Does anyone know how fast the energy balls go that they shoot? because those go from here to the moon in a matter of seconds and that happens in the beginning of DBZ when most people were weaker. At the end of DBZ wouldn't the kamemeha's and stuff go even faster with SSJ3 goku and stuff?
In theory, yes, they would be moving significantly faster. And I believe that's shown very well in the show. There's always those moments when even very powerful characters can't follow the movements of the fighters. This happened a LOT during the Cell games.
As for exact numbers, nobody knows for sure. It sure is fun to speculate though. I think in discussions concerning DBZ, people need to learn to find a middle ground with speculation. It can't be thrown out entirely, because DBZ has rules, and it's not difficult to figure out lots of things in a general sense. But at the same time, hard facts need to be provided whenever possible, and any speculation used must be backed up by sound logic.
@Laurcus: Well in that case surely DBZ fighters travel really, really fast.
People have been using Gotenks flying around the EArth as an example of the speed. But we don't know if they were travelling as fast as they possibly can. Gotenks, in my opinion was playing around, Messing with piccolo testing their new powers. And i could be mistaken but i dont think Gotenks was even SSJ. I thought they kept that a surprise for Super Buu.
@Laurcus: Well in that case surely DBZ fighters travel really, really fast. People have been using Gotenks flying around the EArth as an example of the speed. But we don't know if they were travelling as fast as they possibly can. Gotenks, in my opinion was playing around, Messing with piccolo testing their new powers. And i could be mistaken but i dont think Gotenks was even SSJ. I thought they kept that a surprise for Super Buu.
He was Super Saiyan. But he also wasn't going as fast as possible. We know for a fact that he wasn't going as fast as possible because he lived. DBZ characters can choose to expend more energy to achieve greater results. This is a well known fact. The only time that we can say for sure that a DBZ character used 100% of their energy is when Vegeta used his Final Explosion against Fat Buu. It turned him to dust. All living things have ki, therefore if you have no ki you're not alive.
A much less extreme analysis though would say Gotenks wasn't really trying because he wasn't even breathing hard. That alone shows he can move faster, without going all the way towards instant death.
But yes, I think DBZ characters are ridiculously fast. Much more so than most people think.
All you have to do is look at "Apocalypse" when Superman speedblitzes Darkseid and realize that this is the operating speed of the Z fighters give or take.
@BossMan404: I don't understand why this is going on four pages long, but whatever. Here are the simple facts as stated before and maybe this will be locked soon. Goku is stated as slow when compared(like he normally is) to people who can move so fast that they can time travel based of sheer speed. I.E. Flash or certain version of superman. Moreover, like it has been stated before, no one has hard facts on exactly how fast he really is. It's never ever stated. It's always "Over 9000." because scouters break or people stop being able to keep up before they know his real power. So, it is only speculated how fast/strong/good he is because no one knows for sure.
@theTimeStreamer said:
@XImpossibruX: dont be pissed at me because the premise of the whole series is what a 9 year old would do. besides you would never catch me debating on such a battle.
@theTimeStreamer said:
@SMDfanboys: you are a self entitled little noob arent you. you posted the pinacle of the battle. you know after the 40 pages of talking and stalling.
@theTimeStreamer said:
@RedLanternSuperman: ah reverting so quickly to name calling when someone is saying something you dont like. this denotes such a low intelligence.
Ok. It's amazing to me how some people can be complete liars and hypocrites. I don't feel like quoting them all, but how can you say we would never catch you debating this? Consider yourself caught dude. And it wasn't even a challenge. Moreover, did you really call someone a
"Self entitled little noob"(God it's lame to even use the world noob) and they almost directly afterwords say that it's people are "quickly" reverting to name calling and that it denotes low intelligence.
You should totally just delete your account and then break your computer afterwords. It's should be a crime to be that big of a hypocrite. Also, I who no one says I flamed this liar, as I am given as close to a scan as possible to show that he is in fact a both the things I say he is.
Ignore the bottom half of the image past SS3 Goku since it uses dub errors to prove its point. So yeah, Goku is FTL, especially if you go with the other image that said he was at 24 billion in SS3.
Though really, no one truly demonstrated FTL speed until Vegetto as Buu couldn't keep up with him because he moved faster than the light of his aura.
Is there a bigger image for that? Because even when i click on it, it doesn't enlarge enough.
When you click, right click and go to view image to get the bigger shot.
@nickzambuto said:
@ThanosIsMad said:
Ignore the bottom half of the image past SS3 Goku since it uses dub errors to prove its point. So yeah, Goku is FTL, especially if you go with the other image that said he was at 24 billion in SS3.
Though really, no one truly demonstrated FTL speed until Vegetto as Buu couldn't keep up with him because he moved faster than the light of his aura.
When did that happen?
It was probably something anime only. IIRC, it was after Vegetto goes SS and starts toying with Buu.
@greenteaforme: It may not be "who wins between character x and character y" but it specifically pertains to debating practices on this board.
If it doesn't belong here, then where the frag does it belong?
These types of posts are pretty much against the rules, as far as I know, specifically because they aren't "who wins between character x and character y".
It goes along with the same no-no posts as "who can beat ____?" and things.
I don't think a post like this necessarily has a home, but most belongs in the character's own forum.
@greenteaforme: Rules are rules and I can respect that. But logically, I've seen other boards ban talk involving stat threads and versus battles to a designated battleboard to keep it from their forums.
@nickzambuto: I agree with you actually. Nevertheless, people like definitive numbers. Flash has "pico second" reaction time. that is something we can measure. We know exactly how fast that is. How big is Namek? How many times could Goku fly around earth in a second? We don't know. My point is a definitive answer beats an assumption everyday of the week. I believe Goku was much faster then light speed in flight and reaction time. Now ask me to prove it. I can't.
@XImpossibruX: Goku is faster then light. Flash is 1000x faster then light with pico or feto second speed. Faster then light can be faster by one mile per hour or it could be a billion times the speed of light. It's all speculation. Until they give a SPECIFIC number for Goku's speed people will say flash, superman is faster. Specific speed >>>>>>> speculated speed
Good point, but here's something for an Animevice user hitsusatsu11
SnakeWay is 625, 000 Miles, and it took Goku 2 days to reach the end after King Kai's training. Meaning Goku was traveling at a rate of 13, 018 Mph (Mach 17)
Based off some distance over time feats and scaling using the mach 17 on snake way, and 5000 plv correlation and you can prove he becomes ftl with some math.
Lightspeed= mach 880, 000 therefore Goku was (880,000/17) 51764x slower than light at this point that means theoretically he needs to be pvl (51764x 5000) 258 823 529, now his pvl when he FIRST turned ssj was 150 000 000 (official, in daizenshu) so its clear he vastly surpasses the lightspeed threshold for travelling speed (and I am using a linear correlation, it is likely closer to exponential based on the time he ran it with a plv << 1000, then ran it again with a plv of around 6,000).
TL;DR Goku went mach 17 at PL of 5000, therefore needs a PL of 258, 823, 529 to go light speed.
There's also another way to prove FTL speed. It took the capsule corp spaceship to reach Namek like 6 days. The nearest non-solar system planet is light years away. That means it should at least take a year to reach a planet out of the solar system.
Also, when Bulma first tried out the Namek spaceship with Mr. Popo, she reached Jupiter in an instant. It would take light at least 10 min or so to travel from Earth to Jupiter.
Major DBZ characters HAVE to be faster than spaceships. I refuse to believe they aren't.
Also, the human eye is capable of detecting the smallest flicker in photon movement (light). Any object that is not camouflaged and moving can be detected by the human eye even if only for an instant if that object is traveling less than or equal to the speed of light.
But there are plenty of fights where the Z-fighters themselves could never see Goku moving. This indicates that Goku is FTL
This is obviously assuming we're ignoring Einstein's theories where if one approaches the speed of light, then time slows.
Also, another proof that DBZ characters don't bust planets by hitting their core:
- Piccolo saiyan saga busted the moon. The moon doesn't have a core, or else it would be a planet. The moon is 1/3 the size of the Earth. Via transitive property, characters after the Saiyan saga could easily destroy planets without core busting. Frieza simply failed to blow up Namek because he thought he would be sucked in the explosion and therefore held back.
Neo flies so fast that the wind pressure he exerts toes vehicles and he caught Trinity without shattering any of her bones. That is an impressive feat.
@BossMan404: Goku's fighting speed has been described as "faster then the eye can follow". Flash is said to fight at "lightspeed". Faster then "the eye can see" is only a few times the speed of sound". That is way way way slower "then the speed of light".
So eye can see light coming? Faster than eye can follow gives the minimum, not the maximum, man..
@PrinceAragorn1: i already addressed this point twice:
I agree with you actually. Nevertheless, people like definitive numbers. Flash has "pico second" reaction time. that is something we can measure. We know exactly how fast that is. How big is Namek? How many times could Goku fly around earth in a second? We don't know. My point is a definitive answer beats an assumption everyday of the week. I believe Goku was much faster then light speed in flight and reaction time. Now ask me to prove it. I can't.
Goku is faster then light. Flash is 1000x faster then light with pico or feto second speed. Faster then light can be faster by one mile per hour or it could be a billion times the speed of light. It's all speculation. Until they give a SPECIFIC number for Goku's speed people will say flash, superman is faster. Specific speed >>>>>>> speculated speed
@PrinceAragorn1: i already addressed this point twice:
I agree with you actually. Nevertheless, people like definitive numbers. Flash has "pico second" reaction time. that is something we can measure. We know exactly how fast that is. How big is Namek? How many times could Goku fly around earth in a second? We don't know. My point is a definitive answer beats an assumption everyday of the week. I believe Goku was much faster then light speed in flight and reaction time. Now ask me to prove it. I can't.
Goku is faster then light. Flash is 1000x faster then light with pico or feto second speed. Faster then light can be faster by one mile per hour or it could be a billion times the speed of light. It's all speculation. Until they give a SPECIFIC number for Goku's speed people will say flash, superman is faster. Specific speed >>>>>>> speculated speed
They will never give an exact number for Goku's speed because-
A. It's Manga, there is no narrator that babysits you though people abilities.
B. They will never give Goku a specific speed because DBZ power scaling already proves his speed.
C. Saying "X has a certain speed" would suggest every other character equal to or greater then Goku would be faster.
@nickzambuto: I agree with you actually. Nevertheless, people like definitive numbers. Flash has "pico second" reaction time. that is something we can measure. We know exactly how fast that is. How big is Namek? How many times could Goku fly around earth in a second? We don't know. My point is a definitive answer beats an assumption everyday of the week. I believe Goku was much faster then light speed in flight and reaction time. Now ask me to prove it. I can't.
@XImpossibruX: Goku is faster then light. Flash is 1000x faster then light with pico or feto second speed. Faster then light can be faster by one mile per hour or it could be a billion times the speed of light. It's all speculation. Until they give a SPECIFIC number for Goku's speed people will say flash, superman is faster. Specific speed >>>>>>> speculated speed
Good point, but here's something for an Animevice user hitsusatsu11
SnakeWay is 625, 000 Miles, and it took Goku 2 days to reach the end after King Kai's training. Meaning Goku was traveling at a rate of 13, 018 Mph (Mach 17)
Based off some distance over time feats and scaling using the mach 17 on snake way, and 5000 plv correlation and you can prove he becomes ftl with some math.
Lightspeed= mach 880, 000 therefore Goku was (880,000/17) 51764x slower than light at this point that means theoretically he needs to be pvl (51764x 5000) 258 823 529, now his pvl when he FIRST turned ssj was 150 000 000 (official, in daizenshu) so its clear he vastly surpasses the lightspeed threshold for travelling speed (and I am using a linear correlation, it is likely closer to exponential based on the time he ran it with a plv << 1000, then ran it again with a plv of around 6,000).
TL;DR Goku went mach 17 at PL of 5000, therefore needs a PL of 258, 823, 529 to go light speed.
In SSJ3 his PL reached the billions.
do you do all that math by yourself?
It's a pretty simple formula, I did more difficult problems in middle school. It just seems complicated is all.
Well, actually, your formula DOES have a flaw (I'm a DBZ fan, but also a Math geek).
Your premise is that power levels and speed are linearly correlated. What if every thousand power level increase is equal to a speed increase by 1? If you're not exactly sure what the power level to speed ratio/relationship is then you can't really solidly prove Goku is FTL.
Well, actually, your formula DOES have a flaw (I'm a DBZ fan, but also a Math geek).
Your premise is that power levels and speed are linearly correlated. What if every thousand power level increase is equal to a speed increase by 1? If you're not exactly sure what the power level to speed ratio/relationship is then you can't really solidly prove Goku is FTL.
It wasn't my formula, it was @XImpossibruX 's formula.
In any case, pooty brought that up on the last page, and Ximpossibru explained that power level = ki level. So actually yes, double the power level does indeed equal double the power, because that means you have twice as much ki.
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