Kotoro says:

"..."

i'm not going to dissect all of that... only the bits referring to Superman where you're mistaken...

1. Superman remains invincible as long as he is within reach of the Yellow Sun, in the fight with Doomsday, Doomsday was able to hurt him because Doomsday was from Krypton as well.

2. energy reserves? he's constantly gaining more energy from the sun...

i don't know enough about DBZ to comment on the rest

M

dude if GOku doesn't have his tail and it ain't at night super man would beast him

don't worry i understand both universes i would would say that super saiyans are stronger than superman. i really cant think of a character in a strength fight could be any super saiyans.

i remember that Vegeta on his way to Earth blew up a planet larger than Earth without breaking a sweat, then you think of his power level multiplying in the 100 millions, at Super Saiyan 2 level. But i still think in the Dragonball universe at same level, i would say Gohan in his rage mode would beat any character.

Boken says:

"dude if GOku doesn't have his tail and it ain't at night super man would beast him"

his power level is hightend a lot, and his defence is hightend also. all it would take for his tail to be choped of then he would go back to his normal form

Methos says:

"Kotoro says:

"..."

i'm not going to dissect all of that... only the bits referring to Superman where you're mistaken...

1. Superman remains invincible as long as he is within reach of the Yellow Sun, in the fight with Doomsday, Doomsday was able to hurt him because Doomsday was from Krypton as well.

2. energy reserves? he's constantly gaining more energy from the sun...

i don't know enough about DBZ to comment on the rest

M

"

The comics put out during the doomsday fight implied that Superman's body acted something like a battery, it was constantly being charged by the sun, but if he put out too much power and took too much damage, the effect would be something like a rechargable battery when its depleted, it still puts out a current but not enough to run the machine. He's constantly being recharged, but a few seconds of sunlight wont refill him to his full power after he expends it all. The only reason he got his powers back so fast after spending so much time near death and sealed away from sunlight was that weird thing with the eradicator and the kryptonite blast that transfered his stored power to superman. He was still very resistant to damage in the depleted state, but not nearly as much as usual and he couldn't use his other powers at all.

Boken says:

"dude if GOku doesn't have his tail and it ain't at night super man would beast him"

What does the tail have to do with it? The transformation to great ape gives a power boost (multiply by ten), but its also bulky and probably not in Goku's interest, since Goku loses his mind when he transforms. Besides, the super Saiyajin transformation is much more powerful than this and doesn't involve turning into a godzilla-sized king kong.
Post Edited:2007-08-29 12:01:19

The thing is that it seem you are lacking depth of knowledge of the DC and Marvel universe. I too was at one time a DBZ mega-fan but got drawn into comics specifically because it was an alternative to Anime like DBZ, which as I grew older seemed childish and predictacble plot-wise IMO. I'll use the example at hand....

Superman....

You constantly reference that fight as the basis of why you think Goku is stronger but firstly the same thing happens when DBZ characters get beat up except to an even worse extent. The tire and become ALOT weaker to the point where they often can't even hold their Super Saiyajin states(Superman actually never really gets tired be cause of the energy his cell's are constantly fed). Secondly, Superman has LITERALLY become powered(when he was fighting Doomsday he was still around the John Byrne reboot power-levels. He was quite weak then compared to today) up far beyond his old levels since his fight with Doomsday to the point where he beat Doomsday quite effortlessly(moving so fast that Doomsday's attacks where phasing through him while he appeared to be standing perfectly still. Yes, I know that's one of Goku's old tricks.)He has had two rematches with Doomsday that I know of since(three if you count infinite crisis). The First rematch was shortly after Superman's death and he basically had to get help to when. In the second rematch, he UTTERLY TROMPED Doomsday. That gives you an example of his powers growing. Third, Why did you even use Doomsday as an example in the first place?Did you not know that he is actually stronger than Superman?

Goku is often overly romanticized by his fans and they overlook his weaknesses.

Did we already forget how in the Buu saga a base level Goku had trouble lifting a mere 40 tons and had to become a Super Saiyan!? Luke Cage could do that easily and even an angered Spiderman has shown strength beyond that. Superman and other Superman class characters can move mountains and moons etc.

I notice that everyone seems to awe at the speed of DBZ characters. Stuff like when the seemingly disappear and and re appear teen or twenty feet away in seemingly no time. Well, thats actually REALLY not that impressive at all. Especially not enough to earn him the speed ranking that he has. It just means that the DBZ characters can accelerate and stop instantly. You would only have to be able to accelerate to like 1000 mph instantly to seeming dissapear and then re appear twenty feet further. Flash comics talk about stuff like that all the time. Its actually a really simply accomplisehed feat. Superman and other Superman class characters can disappear and seemingly re appear in other countries or on the otherside of the planet. Light can go around the earth SEVERAL times in less than a second. Supes and Flash can move that fast and Flash can move loads faster even. Goku has to really on the Shunken Ido just to go to another other continents and island's fast

Durabilty wise is no different. Dbz characters can be pummeled and even cut by materials not that hard by comic standards. Goku has skin that can be pierced by needles and has been hurt by rocks, fire, and lava. Superman has survived trips through stars and black holes so there is really no comparison.

Energy projection is really the Only thing Goku has on Superman. And thats because DBZ characters have the ability to dump large amounts of energy.

Did you know that at one time Superman Was at one time FAR STRONGER tan he is today? At one time he could move planets with his bare hands and run to the end of the universe and travel through time at will. He could move planets with his super-breath and lift limitless weights. He never needed sleep, to breath, or eat. His sneeze was enough to destroy a solar-system. And there are characters still in comics today that can still do this type of Sh lol.

I would agree that DBZ characters are much more powerful then the site, in general, gives them credit for. But thats just me.

That was a long, little story you wrote ace.

I think the DBZ characters are underrated by most on this site, but overrated by their fans. I dont see the DBZ characters having much luck against any significantly powerful telepath, reality warper, magic user or top end character from either Marvel or DC.

Forever says:

"I think the DBZ characters are underrated by most on this site, but overrated by their fans. I dont see the DBZ characters having much luck against any significantly powerful telepath, reality warper, magic user or top end character from either Marvel or DC."

Well I don't know, they have some powerful magical characters in their series. And what top of the world characters haven't they fought?

Lantern Prime says:

"Forever says:

"I think the DBZ characters are underrated by most on this site, but overrated by their fans. I dont see the DBZ characters having much luck against any significantly powerful telepath, reality warper, magic user or top end character from either Marvel or DC."

Well I don't know, they have some powerful magical characters in their series. And what top of the world characters haven't they fought? "

Marvel and DC's magic users are basically reality warpers who are using spells, which is something that DBZ has no defense for. And what top end characters from Marvel or DC have the DBZ characters fought?

Forever says:

"I think the DBZ characters are underrated by most on this site, but overrated by their fans. I dont see the DBZ characters having much luck against any significantly powerful telepath, reality warper, magic user or top end character from either Marvel or DC."

Yeah, I'd like to see Goku against someone like Freddy Krueger or Bugs Bunny, someone who wouldn't be affected by physical strength...but of course, I've only been following the first page of this discussion, so I have no idea what's happening.

The guy that started this topic(I don't know his name and don't care to learn right now, as I'm at college and should be doing more important things. Don't blame me that the bus showed up early...), he's allright. He doesn't smell like fanboy, and his posts make sense...Cyclops is total bull if you think about it...as is Superman flying. I mean, leaping tall buildings, that's fine. I can buy that...but how does he manipulate gravity? I just don't understand how he pulls it off, unless he's some sort of low-level psychic or telepath or master of magnetism or something...Again, rambling. So, yeah. Guy, you make a good point. the DBZ guys were cool to me at one point, before Toonami began shoving it down my throat...in fact, the second the stopped playing Thundercats and Voltron, I became hella bitter...I just wish they hadn't become so lazy with the show...I mean, I have so many ideas for different story arcs, that don't involve a half hour of homo-eroticism and retarded hairstyles...it's a shame that they ruined a potential awesome thing for everyone...

Captain Mar-Vell says:

"I would agree with the reality warpers unless they can beat them before they have a chance to warp reality. A couple of the dbz characters have shown telepathy to an extent but this doesn't mean they could resist it but gives a chance. As for the top 10 of marvel or dc. Depends who top 10 are. If are count Living Tribunal and others like that then know. But Superman level or under I think they could beat most. "

I didn't say top ten, I said top end. I think that there are probably quite a bit more than 10 characters in both Marvel and DC that can beat the top DBZ characters without psionics, magic or reality warping. I'm not going all the way up to the Living Tribunal or One Above All either. That would be unfair and a waste of time to mention that the DBZ characters couldn't beat someone on that level. But I agree that the more powerful DBZ characters could beat most of the Marvel and DC characters, but that when you start getting to the top end Marvel/DC characters, that's when the tide starts to turn.

Forever says:

"Captain Mar-Vell says:

"I would agree with the reality warpers unless they can beat them before they have a chance to warp reality. A couple of the dbz characters have shown telepathy to an extent but this doesn't mean they could resist it but gives a chance. As for the top 10 of marvel or dc. Depends who top 10 are. If are count Living Tribunal and others like that then know. But Superman level or under I think they could beat most. "

I didn't say top ten, I said top end. I think that there are probably quite a bit more than 10 characters in both Marvel and DC that can beat the top DBZ characters without psionics, magic or reality warping. I'm not going all the way up to the Living Tribunal or One Above All either. That would be unfair and a waste of time to mention that the DBZ characters couldn't beat someone on that level. But I agree that the more powerful DBZ characters could beat most of the Marvel and DC characters, but that when you start getting to the top end Marvel/DC characters, that's when the tide starts to turn."

I wanna see Doomsday against the DBZ guys...they'll be so shocked when their beam attacks don't work, and they actually have to engage the beast hand-to-hand like the good ol' days when it was just Dragonball...

This thread caught a fever. This thread died.

Please Doom will falll at the hands of Cell or Frieza

That's fine input, Soundwave. How ya been?

Gottheit says:

"I wanna see Doomsday against the DBZ guys...they'll be so shocked when their beam attacks don't work, and they actually have to engage the beast hand-to-hand like the good ol' days when it was just Dragonball..."

Doomsday is impervious to physical attacks.

I meant Doomsday before he evolved that far.

.... sigh

Gottheit says:

"That's fine input, Soundwave. How ya been?"

Nothing, just enjoying life.

Coo'...so, Doom would lose against good ol' Freezer and Cellery? Just checking...

Eternal Chaos says:

"Gottheit says:

"I wanna see Doomsday against the DBZ guys...they'll be so shocked when their beam attacks don't work, and they actually have to engage the beast hand-to-hand like the good ol' days when it was just Dragonball..."

Doomsday is impervious to physical attacks."

Alot of characters are, but yeah hes monster no doubt.

Gottheit says:

"I meant Doomsday before he evolved that far."

even then...

the first couple of attacks would damage him... he'd be killed, then come back impervious to that sort of attack and kill ever single person there

M

That's when they'd need help from some competent american comic characters, Methos...then it's crossover, baby! Or, as I like to call it, "Hiroshima 2."

Methos says:

"Gottheit says:

"I meant Doomsday before he evolved that far."

even then... the first couple of attacks would damage him... he'd be killed, then come back impervious to that sort of attack and kill ever single person there M"

Gottheit says:

"Coo'...so, Doom would lose against good ol' Freezer and Cellery? Just checking..."

I said Cell or Frieza. Trunks and Goten could fight him for awhile. Buu would just absorb him and not waste his energy(Cell would do the same)

Lantern Prime says:

"Methos says:

"Gottheit says:

"I meant Doomsday before he evolved that far."

even then... the first couple of attacks would damage him... he'd be killed, then come back impervious to that sort of attack and kill ever single person there M"

Who said he could come back in the DBZ world? He'll stay dead. DC U might be a different story. Is he alive currently?"

yes he is...

he'd come back because thats what his genetics are programmed to do... it's not a power, it's just what he is...

M

I love DBZ, but lets not get fanboyish here.

1

I gotta say, Soundwave...I think the Doctor, in a straight up fight, could probably take Freezer. He'd need help against Sickle-Cell, though. Maybe need the Justice League, or so...

Methos says:

"Lantern Prime says:

"Methos says:

"Gottheit says:

"I meant Doomsday before he evolved that far."

even then... the first couple of attacks would damage him... he'd be killed, then come back impervious to that sort of attack and kill ever single person there M"

Who said he could come back in the DBZ world? He'll stay dead. DC U might be a different story. Is he alive currently? "

yes he is... he'd come back because thats what his genetics are programmed to do... it's not a power, it's just what he is... M"

Did his planet get destroyed in the same way Supes did?

Lantern Prime says:

"Methos says:

"Lantern Prime says:

"Methos says:

"Gottheit says:

"I meant Doomsday before he evolved that far."

even then... the first couple of attacks would damage him... he'd be killed, then come back impervious to that sort of attack and kill ever single person there M"

Who said he could come back in the DBZ world? He'll stay dead. DC U might be a different story. Is he alive currently? "

yes he is... he'd come back because thats what his genetics are programmed to do... it's not a power, it's just what he is... M"

Did his planet get destroyed in the same way Supes did?"

He's from Krypton

M
Post Edited:2007-09-05 19:18:55

Gottheit says:

"I gotta say, Soundwave...I think the Doctor, in a straight up fight, could probably take Freezer. He'd need help against Sickle-Cell, though. Maybe need the Justice League, or so..."

Freeza had like 4 different transformermations if I can remeber(its beeen a loooong time since ive watched it) and he go 100%

I saw the saga, Wave, and I'm here to tell you: Doom would beat all of them, though the very last would probably mess him up for a while. In the end, with a little help from cheating and general villain-fighting, Doom would triumph over that metrosexual midget. Like, totally.

You mean Dr. Doom. Against like Vegeta? Hahahaha... I don't think so.

1

No, I mean Dr. Doom.

no, he means Doomsday

M

Gottheit says:

"I saw the saga, Wave, and I'm here to tell you: Doom would beat all of them, though the very last would probably mess him up for a while. In the end, with a little help from cheating and general villain-fighting, Doom would triumph over that metrosexual midget. Like, totally."

Well here he'll beat Frieza, Garlic Jr., Broly, All of the Anroids but thats where I draw the line. Cell has too many ways to beat him.

But thanks for translating, Methos. I know you meant well...

oh... ok... go ahead then lol

M

Dr. Doom would get flattened like a tincan by Vegeta. Where's his genius when a musclebound dude with the strength to destroy the planet he lives on without breaking a sweat and some serious anger issues is coming straight at him at about close to lightspeed with a fist thats going to split the earth he is standing on into a mile wide crater?

Dr. Doom's shield and technologies wouldn't be able to hold up to that. His strength is far inferior. I don't even want to talk about speed.

1

No...dammit, Doom would win. Lemme show you.

• Vegeta and DBZ was made by some Japanese guy.

• Dr. Doom was made by Jack Kirby, an American.

• We won the war.

You see now? Since our flag is not a Rising Sun, and we don't hop in front of moving trains after shaming our families, there is no way Vegeta has enough power to defeat Victor Von Doom. Ya see now?

Gottheit says:

"No...dammit, Doom would win. Lemme show you.- Vegeta and DBZ was made by some Japanese guy.- Dr. Doom was made by Jack Kirby, an American.- We won the war.You see now? Since our flag is not a Rising Sun, and we don't hop in front of moving trains after shaming our families, there is no way Vegeta has enough power to defeat Victor Von Doom. Ya see now?"

Yes. I see that your reasoning is completely illogic and you are an idiot.

J/K

1

Gottheit says:

"No...dammit, Doom would win. Lemme show you.- Vegeta and DBZ was made by some Japanese guy.- Dr. Doom was made by Jack Kirby, an American.- We won the war.You see now? Since our flag is not a Rising Sun, and we don't hop in front of moving trains after shaming our families, there is no way Vegeta has enough power to defeat Victor Von Doom. Ya see now?"

slaps head

Doh!

M

*nobody likes me,

everybody hates me,

mineswell eat some worms.

Bit fat juicy ones,

itty bitty slimy ones...

something something something something worms...*

Gottheit says:

"*nobody likes me, everybody hates me, mineswell eat some worms. Bit fat juicy ones, itty bitty slimy ones... something something something something worms...*"

The first 2 I can relate to.

This site doesn't underestimate DBZ. DBZ underestimates human intelligence.

I think claiming evolution can cause you to become immune to an attack "of that nature" is stretching things. Their "energy" would still be able to harm him, theres a limit to how far evolution can protect you. If the attack is strong enough to dismantle cells and proteins faster than they can be rebuilt, then mutations won't help much. Besides, I dont think his body would last long at the center of a star. Even superman would feel if he survived a nuclear blast. I doubt that their invulnerability would last agasint constant nuclear fires. If they managed to push him into one with a ki blast, it wouldn't matter how much damage the beam caused anyway, but thats besides the point.

And I'd hope that the Dragonball characters would be smart enough to use their powers to totally disintegrate doomsday after they managed to beat him down the first time. They've had villains regenerate like that and come back stronger (namely Cell). I could see Doomsday becoming impervious to their physical attacks eventually, but I don't think he'd be totally impervious to the physical force and temperature of their blasts. At the very least theyd be able to push him around with them, and I really dont see doomsday getting strong enough to harm Super Saiya-jin 2 or above. I honestly think his body would be totally destroyed before he had the chance to evolve.