" @Caligula: Actually instant transmission is a teleportation move, not a super speed ability. Goku dematerializes his body into a mass of light, travels to where he want to go (as a mass of light), and re-materializes into his own body. So Superman is still faster than Goku is.  Kai, I'll give you because you do have to train extremely hard to obtain the level of kai control to use the moves the people like Goku, and Vegeta can use. So jea, Goku has Superman there.  But Superman wins in the rest of the ability areas. So how would it be an "EVENLY" fought match? Goku loses in every aspect of the fight except in kai, so all Superman has to do to win is be fast enough to not get hit by many of Goku's attacks (which I believe he could do), and be smart enough to not let Goku charge up an attack that he can't dodge or take head-on (apply directly to the forehead...sorry)...but I believe Superman is smart enough to do so.  So Superman will win the fight. "

Oops. Forgot to mention that superman would not have limitless ki or potential like goku.  That is a saiyan trait. And it's not really that he has limitless ki all the time he just can break through power barriers easier.  In fact, the only saiyan or character in the dbz universe that has this is Broly.  And he's part of another timeline I think than the canon timeline.

Depends...is all I can say.

True ...but it actually started out as to why FANS overrate Goku? If you break it down to what we have all presented...Goku CAN'T beat Superman, and he only has a limited doorway to beat the Hulk. And with manga they waste time anyway, so Goku better get on with it.

@DaMan said:

" @DarcStorm said:

@DaMan said:

" @DarcStorm:
Goku may be overrated by his fans, but it doesn't help the situation when he's being underrated either. Now let me go over some of the things you said in your 1st post.
 
@DarcStorm said:

"While goku gets overrated by you fans who seem to forget one HUGE factor in the world of DB/Z/GT...and that's that their planets are FAR smaller than our own. The earth that Goku lives on is literally that size of a state (no exaggerations). They have North, South, East, and West CITIES, the mountain area, the desert area, the snowy area, the Rocky area, (and if you just HAVE to add it for more space) Master Roshi's island. All of which covers their planet. Have you ever heard of a state from them?...No, because their planet IS a state."

This does not prove the size of Goku's earth. There really isn't anything (that I've seen or heard) that stated how large it was, so how can you just guess to make DBZ characters seem weaker? You have to assume their earth is the same size as ours unless you can prove otherwise. If you have proof, share it with the rest of us.
 
 
 You don't have to assume that a planet that everyone just always seems to be near each other is small...because it doesn't take much effort to be in the next city by just walkin'.
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"If Superman or Hulk were to get shot what would happen?...NOTHIN' BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SHOT MILLIONS OF TIMES!! But if goku where to get shot...he'd possibly die (dependin' on where he got shot). He's NOT bullet-proof, why do you think he tries his best to avoid gettin' shot?"

Now that's funny. In Dragon Ball Bulma shot Goku and he survived. He has much more durability than you think.
 
 
I said he'd POSSIBLY die didn't I? And that fact that he had to survive it only proves my point even further that he's NOT bullet-proof.
 

 @DarcStorm said:

"Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man when it comes to brute strength. And all of his most powerful moves (especially Spirit bomb) take serious amounts of time to charge-up. And I'm sorry but when dealin' with someone as retard-strong as the Hulk, with no sense of fear. Of with someone as fast as a virgins first busted nut, and can lift A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND...such as Superman. And even if the attacks hit they won't do anything to Hulk of Superman. Both have been shot by guns, cannons, tanks, and even high-powered lasers. And even blown up by grenades, bombs, missiles, and rockets. Hell, Hulk had a grenade explode in his mouth, and did he die?...Hell no.So how do you possibly believe that Goku is able to do anything against them, let along other powerful characters
(Such as DarcStorm...yes I said it)."

Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man? Did you mean Superman?  
Charging blasts won't be a problem because he can IT somewhere else and come back with it fully charged. All the things you listed there aren't impressive when it comes to certain DBZ characters. Cell (before he became perfect Cell) took on the military, but that really isn't impressive either.       

 

 
No, I meant Spider-man, cause I was talkin' about brute strength. When it comes down to it Goku can't out lift Spider-man people seem to keep overrating his strength by sayin' that he can lift "600 tons...or more", when the most he has ever lifted was...the school bus of kids. And he struggled, and needed Piccolo's help. Spider-man can lift a bus by himself. And Cell only took on the military because he could heal. If he couldn't the military would've killed him. Name sothin' impressive that Goku did on his own?...nothin'.
 

 @DarcStorm said:

" Hell, Goku's biggest problem is Vegeta, because every transformation that they have both achieved Vegeta was stronger in. And that's Fact."

 Actually, it was the other way around. Watch the Buu Saga. 
 
 
 No it wasn't. I watched the Buu saga, and in it Vegeta only said that Goku was stronger because He was at ss3 and Vegeta himself was only at ss2. Now what I was talkin' about was that When Vegeta first went supersaiyan, Piccolo himself said that Vegeta might be more powerful than Goku. And then, when Vegeta showed that he was hidin' his true power level it was confirmed that his ss1 was more powerful than Goku's. And in the Buu saga Majin Vegeta fought ss2 Goku evenly, and both of them were usin' their full power in that form. Goku even said that if he used anymore of his power he would've changed into ss3. And since Majin Vegeta was tied with ss2 Goku, then Vegeta gained more power changin' into ss2, doesn't that mean that Vegeta's ss2 is stornger than Goku's?...jea.
 
 
@DarcStorm said:

"Name 1 powerful person that Goku fought, and beat WITHOUT the help of anyone else?"

Seriously? Do I really need to answer this question? If you watched the tournament saga in dragon ball you'd know that Goku won many fights on his own. He beat Pikkon on his own and in GT he solo'd Freiza & Cell too. There's even more opponents than that but that's all I'll give you.
 
 
In Dragonball no-one was strong, the best they had was king Piccolo, and his power level was what...1000. that's not strong.  And Goku never beat Pikkon their fight was a draw, because they both landed on the ceilin'. And in GT Freiza and Cell weren't strong anymore. They were just weak dead people. Againt Vegeta in the saiyan saga what happened? Goku was left a bloody, and beaten mess, while Krillin, Gohan, and Yajorobi (however you spell it) took turns jumpin' Vegeta. (but for some reason people seem to believe that Goku won that fight...don't know how). And in the Freiza saga...Vegeta, Krillin, Gohan, and Piccolo helped Goku jump Freiza. So again where was the fair fightin'? Against Cell Goku did fight him one-on-one, but didn't he give-up?...and isn't a give-up a loss?...jea. Against Majin Vegeta Goku fought him evenly until he got knocked out by Vegeta (and people believe Goku won this fight as well). Even against Buu (Fat, Super, and Kid), he tied with fat, and was only jumpin' the other two (jea...Vegito is jumpin' someone because it's 2 people fightin' someone at the same time). Goku, Vegeta, Fat Buu, and even Hercule took turns fightin' Kid Buu (and that's jumpin'). Jumped Brolly, jumped Bojack, jumped everyone they came across...Goku does nothin' on his own against strong people?
 
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"he's HIGHLY overrated."

And your post shows that he's HIGHLY underrated as well.  "
 
 Your post were only bad attempts at tryin' to justify the over exploited feats that Goku CAN"T accomplish on his own.

1. In other words you don't have proof. Moving on...
 
Just because you don't believe me doesn't mean I didn't prove my point. You're a FAN nothin' more...which is why you don't want to except it. 
 
1. a) The reason I don't believe you is because you didn't prove your point. All you said is "they did not bust planets cuz i think the planet is small." You cannot provide any proof for this therefore it is only an opinion. All you are is somebody with no knowledge of DBZ. Go watch it again (BTW it's spelled "accept" not "except").

2. No, he wouldn't possibly die. He's been shot before and it didn't even scratch him. The fact that he survived being shot proves he's not bullet proof, even though he's taken bullets before? WOW. It's obvious you're bias. Superman can survive being punched in the face by Bruce. Does that mean he can't take it? Lol. Your attempts at trying to make Goku look weak are horrible.
 
Since when does gettin' shot 1 time, and servivin' it make you bulletproof? So that's why Fifty cent keeps callin' himself bulletproof. I'm not bias, I'm statin' facts. Superman doesn't have to servive bein' hit in the face by any human, cause he doesn't feel it (unless there's some colorful glowin' rock around). Hell, you could beat up superman in his sleep, and he wouldn't wake up. And I'm not tryin' to make Goku look weak, it's just that with all of the truth that I've said you seem to feel that he's weak now...WHY? 
 
2. a) He got shot more than once and took more damage than a bullet can deliver later on in the series. You haven't stated one correct fact so I must correct you. Your logic implies that if Superman got scratched in the face by a cat once and survived, that he would not be able to do it again. Try using better arguments.
 
3. Another horrible attempt. Spiderman is a 25 tonner. Goku lifted over 40 tons on each limb. Not only that but his power increases with each SS transformation. He's way stronger than you think, and it doesn't take a genius to realize that Goku barely being to lift a bus is PIS. Either that, or the episode was non-canon because I haven't seen it before. Goku has many impressive feats that I refuse to share with a typical DBZ hater. Cell didn't take any damage -period-, but you seem like someone who has no knowledge of DBZ so it's understandable why you think the way you do.
 
And you call yourself a FAN? When has Goku ever lifted over 40 ton's? No-no, when has Goku ever lifted over 40 tons with each limb? You must be a FAN if you didn't see him strugglin' with the school bus full of kids. And when have I ever said that I hated DBZ? I know I said that I hate what FANS make DBZ out to be, but I never said that I hated DBZ. Cell always took damage...he's just an amazing healer. If he didn't take damage why was he scared that piccolo was stronger than him when he was imperfect? Why was he scared that Vegeta was goin' to kill him (and begged to be allowed to become perfect)? Why was he so scared of ss2 Gohan that he was goin' to blow himself, and the planet up? And if he didn't take any damage, why is he dead? And before you can say it Cell was scared because these people were able to kill him (i.e. damage him beyond repair). And I'm suppose to be someone who has no knowledge of DBZ.

3. a) I didn't say I was a fan. What I'm doing here is correcting the flaws you've made. Firstly, I meant to say that Spidey is a 10 tonner, and secondly, Goku lifted over 40 tons on one of the Kai's planets. If you actually watched DBZ instead of skimming through PIS videos on Youtube you'd know this. It looks like you're trying to hard to make Goku look weak. That's why I called you a hater. Again, watch DBZ. Cell didn't have to heal. Cell was scared because both Piccolo and Vegeta are capable of MUCH more doing more damage than the military is capable of dishing out. Gohan was just on a whole nother level at the time. Their ki energy is way beyond planet busting, which is how Gohan got rid of Cell. Yes, and your lack of knowledge is why your arguments are horrible. 

4. Yes it was and the Buu saga proved that. Maybe if you weren't bias you'd pay attention to what actually happens in DBZ. Goku beat Vegeta in their 1st encounter. Goku defeated Frieza, but Vegeta couldn't. Goku stalemated Cell, but Vegeta didn't even come close. Goku was able to reach SS3 by the end of DBZ, but Vegeta couldn't and he even admitted that Goku was the better fighter. So with that said, Vegeta's word > Your word. Majin Vegeta was not stronger than SS2 Goku so you're not going to get anywhere by comparing them. In fact the only way Vegeta could fight Goku equally was by allowing Babidi to take control of him. Majin Vegeta was at SS2 when he was fighting Goku. Pay attention when you watch the show man.
 
Goku DIDN'T beat Vegeta in their first encounter (this is what I mean when I say that you FANS add stuff on). Goku was already broken bodied when Krillen, and Gohan SAVED him by STOPPIN' VEGETA from KILLIN' GOKU. After Krillen and Gohan stopped Vegeta from killin' Goku, did Goku join in on that fight again?...NO because VEGETA beat him. Goku defeated Freiza only AFTER everyone else jumped him, and how many attempts did Goku take to defeat Freiza?...and he was only able to do it AFTER transformin'. Goku only stalemated Cell because Cell wasn't fightin' him at full strength Cell even said that. Goku stopped fightin' him because he knew he couldn't defeat him. Vegeta didn't come close because it was super perfect cell that he fought (which wasn't even close to the same Cell that Goku fought). How do you know that Vegeta didn't achieve ss3 by the end of Z, did he say he didn't? And Vegeta only said that Goku was the better fighter because of the reasons why they fought. And I never said that Majin Vegeta was stronger than ss2 Goku. I said that they were evenly match because they themselves said that fact. Majin Vegeta was not (I repeat, WAS NOT) ss2 the creators of Majin Vegeta said that he was only an upgraded version of Vegeta's ss level...meanin' he was NOT ss2 yet. Vegeta became ss2 AFTER he blew himself up, and when he came back to earth to fight super Buu he was stronger than when he died because he achieved ss2 PROVIN' that Vegeta's ss2 is stronger than Goku's You REALLY need to do some studyin' when tryin' to talk facts about somethin' you have no knowledge about. 
 
4. a) If Vegeta beat Goku then how come Vegeta was the one being blasted out of orbit by a kamehameha wave that Goku sent at him (and don't ask me when this happened, just watch DBZ). Goku was able to defeat Frieza's full transformation by himself. Goku actually helped Cell to regain his strength by giving him a senzu bean. He could've defeated Cell if he really wanted to. By the end of DBZ Vegeta did not reach SS3 or else he would've used it against Buu genius. I know Majin Vegeta isn't SS2 and he was only able to defeat Goku by using a cheap shot, and through the help of Babadi. Hypocrite.

5. At the time some of the DB characters were powerful opponents for Goku and he defeated them. They're fight was NOT a draw you liar. How can you land on a ceiling, LOL? They were both fighting outside in a ring. Goku blasted Pikkon with a kamehameha which sent him out of the ring. Cell and Frieza were still powerful, but Goku was even more powerful. Goku defeated Vegeta already. Goku defeated Frieza's final form on his own. Goku could've beat Cell but he helped him recover instead. Vegeta needed a power up by Babidi to even get on Goku's level in the 1st place. Not only that, but he had to cheat in order to KO him. So you want one character to steal the limelight? Other characters need to be shown off to show that they're powerful as well. Stop trying to figure a way around what Goku does and accept it. Look at how many other characters need help to fight someone. Why don't you make a rant about them? Wait, I know the answer. It's because you're bias against Goku. Superman cannot defeat an opponent who is superior to him in every way without help either. If he could then it would be PIS. This is not something that is hard to understand.
 
 
 See what I mean when I say that you need to study. Grand Kai said that they were both disqualified when they landed on the ceilin' of the arena "because the floor is like the ceiling" (his words, not mine), so the rest of that fight was null-n-void because they were BOTH already disqualified. Freiza and Cell weren't able to become anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta, nor Goku's non-transformed state, because their powers only slightly increased since they died, while Goku and Vegeta became several times stronger than when they fought them the first time. Again...GOKU HAS NEVER DEFEATED VEGETA! They had 2 fights in the first one look at what I said earlier, and in the second one (Majin), Vegeta knocked him out. No I'll give you that the second one was a tie (because there was NO winner), but in the first one Goku was saved. Vegeta didn't use babadi for a power-up, he used him so that he could return to the mind-set that he use to have (how many times does Vegeta himself have to say that for you FANS to understand?), you know, cold and ruthless? Why don't you stop tryin' to find a way around the fact that Goku can do nothing on his own against strong people, and accept that. Why is it that the only thing you keep sayin' is that "I'm bias against Goku", eventhough YOU'RE bias FOR Goku? I never said that Superman could defeat a stronger opponent than himself. It's just there was no reason for me to say that he couldn't because this is about how HIGHLY OVERRATED Goku is...not Superman. 
 
5. a) What you need to do is stop lying to yourself and start watching the DB series all over again. Goku knocked Pikkon out of the ring with a kamehameha. Technically, he still won even if it was a disqualification. Vegeta only knocked Goku out by using a cheap shot. The only way he could even match him in their fight was through the power Babadi granted him (he used Babadi to become more powerful not to return to something he already had). Goku has defeated Vegeta and he doesn't even have to because it was already established in the Buu saga that Goku is his superior. I repeat, even Vegeta admitted that Goku was better than him. So I'm not going to listen to you, I'm going to listen to the writer. Writer > you. Your bias is clouding your thoughts. You're so caught up that you've resorted to using bs arguments in order to make Goku seem weak. Nobody can defeat an opponent that is superior to them in every way without PIS, so your point about Goku not being able to defeat a stronger people doesn't prove anything (especially since he has defeated strong opponents on his own, but your bias won't allow you to accept that). You're just showing your hatred towards Goku, that's why this isn't about Superman or Hulk (even though you mentioned Superman & Hulk in your OP). If you're going to talk about how overrated a character is, try to have some sort of knowledge about what the character can do.
 
 
6. This thread is a fail.

" 
 
DarcStorm's logic fails.

@ GrayWolf: I don't know which effect wuld be applied, so I can't tell you for sure what level he'd be on. But my honest  opinion is that Goku would best him in the kai department.
 
@DaMan said:  

"@DarcStorm said:

@DaMan said:

" @DarcStorm said:

@DaMan said:

" @DarcStorm:
Goku may be overrated by his fans, but it doesn't help the situation when he's being underrated either. Now let me go over some of the things you said in your 1st post.
 
@DarcStorm said:

"While goku gets overrated by you fans who seem to forget one HUGE factor in the world of DB/Z/GT...and that's that their planets are FAR smaller than our own. The earth that Goku lives on is literally that size of a state (no exaggerations). They have North, South, East, and West CITIES, the mountain area, the desert area, the snowy area, the Rocky area, (and if you just HAVE to add it for more space) Master Roshi's island. All of which covers their planet. Have you ever heard of a state from them?...No, because their planet IS a state."

This does not prove the size of Goku's earth. There really isn't anything (that I've seen or heard) that stated how large it was, so how can you just guess to make DBZ characters seem weaker? You have to assume their earth is the same size as ours unless you can prove otherwise. If you have proof, share it with the rest of us.
 
 
 You don't have to assume that a planet that everyone just always seems to be near each other is small...because it doesn't take much effort to be in the next city by just walkin'.
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"If Superman or Hulk were to get shot what would happen?...NOTHIN' BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SHOT MILLIONS OF TIMES!! But if goku where to get shot...he'd possibly die (dependin' on where he got shot). He's NOT bullet-proof, why do you think he tries his best to avoid gettin' shot?"

Now that's funny. In Dragon Ball Bulma shot Goku and he survived. He has much more durability than you think.
 
 
I said he'd POSSIBLY die didn't I? And that fact that he had to survive it only proves my point even further that he's NOT bullet-proof.
 

 @DarcStorm said:

"Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man when it comes to brute strength. And all of his most powerful moves (especially Spirit bomb) take serious amounts of time to charge-up. And I'm sorry but when dealin' with someone as retard-strong as the Hulk, with no sense of fear. Of with someone as fast as a virgins first busted nut, and can lift A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND...such as Superman. And even if the attacks hit they won't do anything to Hulk of Superman. Both have been shot by guns, cannons, tanks, and even high-powered lasers. And even blown up by grenades, bombs, missiles, and rockets. Hell, Hulk had a grenade explode in his mouth, and did he die?...Hell no.So how do you possibly believe that Goku is able to do anything against them, let along other powerful characters
(Such as DarcStorm...yes I said it)."

Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man? Did you mean Superman?  
Charging blasts won't be a problem because he can IT somewhere else and come back with it fully charged. All the things you listed there aren't impressive when it comes to certain DBZ characters. Cell (before he became perfect Cell) took on the military, but that really isn't impressive either.       

 

 
No, I meant Spider-man, cause I was talkin' about brute strength. When it comes down to it Goku can't out lift Spider-man people seem to keep overrating his strength by sayin' that he can lift "600 tons...or more", when the most he has ever lifted was...the school bus of kids. And he struggled, and needed Piccolo's help. Spider-man can lift a bus by himself. And Cell only took on the military because he could heal. If he couldn't the military would've killed him. Name sothin' impressive that Goku did on his own?...nothin'.
 

 @DarcStorm said:

" Hell, Goku's biggest problem is Vegeta, because every transformation that they have both achieved Vegeta was stronger in. And that's Fact."

 Actually, it was the other way around. Watch the Buu Saga. 
 
 
 No it wasn't. I watched the Buu saga, and in it Vegeta only said that Goku was stronger because He was at ss3 and Vegeta himself was only at ss2. Now what I was talkin' about was that When Vegeta first went supersaiyan, Piccolo himself said that Vegeta might be more powerful than Goku. And then, when Vegeta showed that he was hidin' his true power level it was confirmed that his ss1 was more powerful than Goku's. And in the Buu saga Majin Vegeta fought ss2 Goku evenly, and both of them were usin' their full power in that form. Goku even said that if he used anymore of his power he would've changed into ss3. And since Majin Vegeta was tied with ss2 Goku, then Vegeta gained more power changin' into ss2, doesn't that mean that Vegeta's ss2 is stornger than Goku's?...jea.
 
 
@DarcStorm said:

"Name 1 powerful person that Goku fought, and beat WITHOUT the help of anyone else?"

Seriously? Do I really need to answer this question? If you watched the tournament saga in dragon ball you'd know that Goku won many fights on his own. He beat Pikkon on his own and in GT he solo'd Freiza & Cell too. There's even more opponents than that but that's all I'll give you.
 
 
In Dragonball no-one was strong, the best they had was king Piccolo, and his power level was what...1000. that's not strong.  And Goku never beat Pikkon their fight was a draw, because they both landed on the ceilin'. And in GT Freiza and Cell weren't strong anymore. They were just weak dead people. Againt Vegeta in the saiyan saga what happened? Goku was left a bloody, and beaten mess, while Krillin, Gohan, and Yajorobi (however you spell it) took turns jumpin' Vegeta. (but for some reason people seem to believe that Goku won that fight...don't know how). And in the Freiza saga...Vegeta, Krillin, Gohan, and Piccolo helped Goku jump Freiza. So again where was the fair fightin'? Against Cell Goku did fight him one-on-one, but didn't he give-up?...and isn't a give-up a loss?...jea. Against Majin Vegeta Goku fought him evenly until he got knocked out by Vegeta (and people believe Goku won this fight as well). Even against Buu (Fat, Super, and Kid), he tied with fat, and was only jumpin' the other two (jea...Vegito is jumpin' someone because it's 2 people fightin' someone at the same time). Goku, Vegeta, Fat Buu, and even Hercule took turns fightin' Kid Buu (and that's jumpin'). Jumped Brolly, jumped Bojack, jumped everyone they came across...Goku does nothin' on his own against strong people?
 
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"he's HIGHLY overrated."

And your post shows that he's HIGHLY underrated as well.  "
 
 Your post were only bad attempts at tryin' to justify the over exploited feats that Goku CAN"T accomplish on his own.

1. In other words you don't have proof. Moving on...
 
Just because you don't believe me doesn't mean I didn't prove my point. You're a FAN nothin' more...which is why you don't want to except it. 
 
1. a) The reason I don't believe you is because you didn't prove your point. All you said is "they did not bust planets cuz i think the planet is small." You cannot provide any proof for this therefore it is only an opinion. All you are is somebody with no knowledge of DBZ. Go watch it again (BTW it's spelled "accept" not "except").
 
 
1.B)  I said, that their planet is small because they have no continets, no countries, nostates...just cities. So if they only have what...like 4 cities (and unnamed places like the mountians, and the forest) their planet has to be ridiculusly smaller than our own. That's what manga does, make planets smaller so the fighters look more powerful for blowin' them up. Look a how big our planet is...their is just no way what-so-ever that you can even imagine someone bein' able to blow it up with a blast that isn't even the size of a street block. And nothin' in DBZ made sense because they constantly changed (what they themselves put up as) facts. How was it that Vegeta powered up at ss1 against #18 sayin' that he could blow the planet up by fully powerin' up, but still powers all he way up at ss2 (which we all know to be stronger than 1)...and still not blow the planet up by doin' so. And he wasn't the only character to sy that.
 

2. No, he wouldn't possibly die. He's been shot before and it didn't even scratch him. The fact that he survived being shot proves he's not bullet proof, even though he's taken bullets before? WOW. It's obvious you're bias. Superman can survive being punched in the face by Bruce. Does that mean he can't take it? Lol. Your attempts at trying to make Goku look weak are horrible.
 
Since when does gettin' shot 1 time, and survivin' it make you bulletproof? So that's why Fifty cent keeps callin' himself bulletproof. I'm not bias, I'm statin' facts. Superman doesn't have to survive bein' hit in the face by any human, cause he doesn't feel it (unless there's some colorful glowin' rock around). Hell, you could beat up superman in his sleep, and he wouldn't wake up. And I'm not tryin' to make Goku look weak, it's just that with all of the truth that I've said you seem to feel that he's weak now...WHY? 
 
2. a) He got shot more than once and took more damage than a bullet can deliver later on in the series. You haven't stated one correct fact so I must correct you. Your logic implies that if Superman got scratched in the face by a cat once and survived, that he would not be able to do it again. Try using better arguments.
 
 
2.B) When did Goku get shot, and why haven't you been showin' any proof of anything? When did I ever say that if it leaves a scratch, you can't survive it a second time? You say that I haven't stated one correct fact yet (eventhough I keep doin' so), but yet your only argument to everything is either it's pis, I'm bias, or sayin' that I don't hqave any knowledge? But I'M suppose to have to try to use better arguments.
 
 
3. Another horrible attempt. Spiderman is a 25 tonner. Goku lifted over 40 tons on each limb. Not only that but his power increases with each SS transformation. He's way stronger than you think, and it doesn't take a genius to realize that Goku barely being to lift a bus is PIS. Either that, or the episode was non-canon because I haven't seen it before. Goku has many impressive feats that I refuse to share with a typical DBZ hater. Cell didn't take any damage -period-, but you seem like someone who has no knowledge of DBZ so it's understandable why you think the way you do.
 
And you call yourself a FAN? When has Goku ever lifted over 40 ton's? No-no, when has Goku ever lifted over 40 tons with each limb? You must be a FAN if you didn't see him strugglin' with the school bus full of kids. And when have I ever said that I hated DBZ? I know I said that I hate what FANS make DBZ out to be, but I never said that I hated DBZ. Cell always took damage...he's just an amazing healer. If he didn't take damage why was he scared that piccolo was stronger than him when he was imperfect? Why was he scared that Vegeta was goin' to kill him (and begged to be allowed to become perfect)? Why was he so scared of ss2 Gohan that he was goin' to blow himself, and the planet up? And if he didn't take any damage, why is he dead? And before you can say it Cell was scared because these people were able to kill him (i.e. damage him beyond repair). And I'm suppose to be someone who has no knowledge of DBZ.

3. a) I didn't say I was a fan. What I'm doing here is correcting the flaws you've made. Firstly, I meant to say that Spidey is a 10 tonner, and secondly, Goku lifted over 40 tons on one of the Kai's planets. If you actually watched DBZ instead of skimming through PIS videos on Youtube you'd know this. It looks like you're trying to hard to make Goku look weak. That's why I called you a hater. Again, watch DBZ. Cell didn't have to heal. Cell was scared because both Piccolo and Vegeta are capable of MUCH more doing more damage than the military is capable of dishing out. Gohan was just on a whole nother level at the time. Their ki energy is way beyond planet busting, which is how Gohan got rid of Cell. Yes, and your lack of knowledge is why your arguments are horrible. 

 
3.B) You're actin' like a FAN. By tryin' to make Goku into more than what he is and over exploitin' the things he actually accomplished...you turned yourself into a FAN. Name one flaw that I made in my arguments that you can correct with facts (not FAN facts cause those are just wishfull thinkin' stories)...You can't cause I haven't made one. Which kai was it then? Oh so now that you're bein' bested by a "No-knowledge-DBZ-hater" (your words, not mine), you have to resort to sayin' that the only dbz anything I know I got from watchin' youtube? You're not makin' any sense in this statment at all. How is it that you can say that Cell didn' have to heal, eventhough Piccolo, and Vegeta FORCED him to do so? 
 
 
4. Yes it was and the Buu saga proved that. Maybe if you weren't bias you'd pay attention to what actually happens in DBZ. Goku beat Vegeta in their 1st encounter. Goku defeated Frieza, but Vegeta couldn't. Goku stalemated Cell, but Vegeta didn't even come close. Goku was able to reach SS3 by the end of DBZ, but Vegeta couldn't and he even admitted that Goku was the better fighter. So with that said, Vegeta's word > Your word. Majin Vegeta was not stronger than SS2 Goku so you're not going to get anywhere by comparing them. In fact the only way Vegeta could fight Goku equally was by allowing Babidi to take control of him. Majin Vegeta was at SS2 when he was fighting Goku. Pay attention when you watch the show man.
 
Goku DIDN'T beat Vegeta in their first encounter (this is what I mean when I say that you FANS add stuff on). Goku was already broken bodied when Krillen, and Gohan SAVED him by STOPPIN' VEGETA from KILLIN' GOKU. After Krillen and Gohan stopped Vegeta from killin' Goku, did Goku join in on that fight again?...NO because VEGETA beat him. Goku defeated Freiza only AFTER everyone else jumped him, and how many attempts did Goku take to defeat Freiza?...and he was only able to do it AFTER transformin'. Goku only stalemated Cell because Cell wasn't fightin' him at full strength Cell even said that. Goku stopped fightin' him because he knew he couldn't defeat him. Vegeta didn't come close because it was super perfect cell that he fought (which wasn't even close to the same Cell that Goku fought). How do you know that Vegeta didn't achieve ss3 by the end of Z, did he say he didn't? And Vegeta only said that Goku was the better fighter because of the reasons why they fought. And I never said that Majin Vegeta was stronger than ss2 Goku. I said that they were evenly match because they themselves said that fact. Majin Vegeta was not (I repeat, WAS NOT) ss2 the creators of Majin Vegeta said that he was only an upgraded version of Vegeta's ss level...meanin' he was NOT ss2 yet. Vegeta became ss2 AFTER he blew himself up, and when he came back to earth to fight super Buu he was stronger than when he died because he achieved ss2 PROVIN' that Vegeta's ss2 is stronger than Goku's You REALLY need to do some studyin' when tryin' to talk facts about somethin' you have no knowledge about. 
 
4. a) If Vegeta beat Goku then how come Vegeta was the one being blasted out of orbit by a kamehameha wave that Goku sent at him (and don't ask me when this happened, just watch DBZ). Goku was able to defeat Frieza's full transformation by himself. Goku actually helped Cell to regain his strength by giving him a senzu bean. He could've defeated Cell if he really wanted to. By the end of DBZ Vegeta did not reach SS3 or else he would've used it against Buu genius. I know Majin Vegeta isn't SS2 and he was only able to defeat Goku by using a cheap shot, and through the help of Babadi. Hypocrite.
 
 
4.B) Don't ask you when it happened huh?...that's because it NEVER happened. Vegeta left earth by gettin' into his saiyan pod, and leavin'...that's WHY I called you a FAN. Goku went kaio-ken x4, and still wasn't able to beat Vegeta. Remember, Vegeta turned into the giant ape and broke every bone in Goku's body? How does that mean Goku won? Then Gohan, and Krillin came back and jumped Vegeta withboth of them almost dyin' until Yajurobi cut Vegeta's tail off...And Vegeta still kicked both of their asses. Until Gohan turned into a giant ape, and Vegeta fought hm and still cut his tail off as well. The fight only ended cause Vegeta had no more energy left when Gohan (giant ape transformin' back) feel on top of him. If that didn't happen Vegeta would've killed all of them. And while all of this was happennin', Goku was on the side-lines layin' there (cause he LOST the fight due to Vegeta makin' it so he couldn't mve anymore) tellin Gohan, and Krillin what to do. He was only able to beat Freiza AFTER MULTIPLE ATTEMPTS. Goku himself said that he couldn't beat Cell (while he was tryin' his hardest, and Cell wasn't). So how do you keep commin' up with FAN BS of Goku havin' the ability to beat Cell? Hey, genius...after Buu died there were 10 years that happened before DBZ ended. So you may have misunderstood but Vegeta could've went ss3 in tose 10 years...but it ws never shown. So again...how do you know? Wait...earlier you said..."Majin Vegeta was at SS2 when he was fighting Goku. Pay attention when you watch the show man." ...but NOW you say that... "Vegeta isn't SS2"...what happened?

5. At the time some of the DB characters were powerful opponents for Goku and he defeated them. They're fight was NOT a draw you liar. How can you land on a ceiling, LOL? They were both fighting outside in a ring. Goku blasted Pikkon with a kamehameha which sent him out of the ring. Cell and Frieza were still powerful, but Goku was even more powerful. Goku defeated Vegeta already. Goku defeated Frieza's final form on his own. Goku could've beat Cell but he helped him recover instead. Vegeta needed a power up by Babidi to even get on Goku's level in the 1st place. Not only that, but he had to cheat in order to KO him. So you want one character to steal the limelight? Other characters need to be shown off to show that they're powerful as well. Stop trying to figure a way around what Goku does and accept it. Look at how many other characters need help to fight someone. Why don't you make a rant about them? Wait, I know the answer. It's because you're bias against Goku. Superman cannot defeat an opponent who is superior to him in every way without help either. If he could then it would be PIS. This is not something that is hard to understand.
 
 
 See what I mean when I say that you need to study. Grand Kai said that they were both disqualified when they landed on the ceilin' of the arena "because the floor is like the ceiling" (his words, not mine), so the rest of that fight was null-n-void because they were BOTH already disqualified. Freiza and Cell weren't able to become anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta, nor Goku's non-transformed state, because their powers only slightly increased since they died, while Goku and Vegeta became several times stronger than when they fought them the first time. Again...GOKU HAS NEVER DEFEATED VEGETA! They had 2 fights in the first one look at what I said earlier, and in the second one (Majin), Vegeta knocked him out. No I'll give you that the second one was a tie (because there was NO winner), but in the first one Goku was saved. Vegeta didn't use babadi for a power-up, he used him so that he could return to the mind-set that he use to have (how many times does Vegeta himself have to say that for you FANS to understand?), you know, cold and ruthless? Why don't you stop tryin' to find a way around the fact that Goku can do nothing on his own against strong people, and accept that. Why is it that the only thing you keep sayin' is that "I'm bias against Goku", eventhough YOU'RE bias FOR Goku? I never said that Superman could defeat a stronger opponent than himself. It's just there was no reason for me to say that he couldn't because this is about how HIGHLY OVERRATED Goku is...not Superman. 
 
5. a) What you need to do is stop lying to yourself and start watching the DB series all over again. Goku knocked Pikkon out of the ring with a kamehameha. Technically, he still won even if it was a disqualification. Vegeta only knocked Goku out by using a cheap shot. The only way he could even match him in their fight was through the power Babadi granted him (he used Babadi to become more powerful not to return to something he already had). Goku has defeated Vegeta and he doesn't even have to because it was already established in the Buu saga that Goku is his superior. I repeat, even Vegeta admitted that Goku was better than him. So I'm not going to listen to you, I'm going to listen to the writer. Writer > you. Your bias is clouding your thoughts. You're so caught up that you've resorted to using bs arguments in order to make Goku seem weak. Nobody can defeat an opponent that is superior to them in every way without PIS, so your point about Goku not being able to defeat a stronger people doesn't prove anything (especially since he has defeated strong opponents on his own, but your bias won't allow you to accept that). You're just showing your hatred towards Goku, that's why this isn't about Superman or Hulk (even though you mentioned Superman & Hulk in your OP). If you're going to talk about how overrated a character is, try to have some sort of knowledge about what the character can do.
 
  
5.B) Why is it that evertime Goku "beats" someone (i your mind) he does it with a kamehameha?How does he still wn if it was a disqualification if bein' knocked out of the ring is a disqualification...not a lose? To beat someone in a fight, you have to knock them out, make the quit, or kill them...ask any real fighter, a disqualification isn't a real victory. Goku has NEVER defeated Vegeta...Again for the umptenth time...Vegeta admitted that Goku was A BETTER FIGHTER...he did not, in no way, shape or form say that Goku stronger than him. es, he sad that Goku achieved a higher transformation than he has ( Goku hs ss3, whil Vegeta only has ss2)...but again that doesn't make Goku stronger in the way that they fight because if Vegeta and Goku were to fight again, and Vegeta frced Goku to turn ss3 in that fight then it's a victory for Vegea because it shows that Goku can't hack it on an even playin' field. I've provided facts...if they make Goku look weaker than it is not the fault of me...but the fault of the FANS who think he's more superior than what he really is. My point about Goku not bein' able to defeat someone stronger than himself is very valid. You see, if Goku were put up against someone like Superman who seems to be superior to him (and we haven't even seen Superman's limits yet), how can Goku win that fight wihout help...because there would be no-one there to help him in that ONE-ON-ONE fight...So Goku loses.  You constantly say that I have no knowledge about Goku, but at every turn I prove that I know more than yourself...so how low would that make you on the list of knowledgeable people? Because all I've read from you is just what th majority of FANS do...MAKE STUFF UP.
 
 

6. This thread is a fail.

" 
 
DarcStorm's logic fails...Says the FAN who typed this.

"

" For some odd reason or another DBZ fans seem to go highly overboard with what Goku can do. For instants, sayin' that Goku could fight (let along KILL) Superman or the Hulk.
 
  Are you insane?
 
  Hulk's strength grows the madder he gets, he also has one of the best healin' factors Marvel has to offer (despite Deadpool, and Wolverine). He's fast, has agility, and can literally jump miles.
 
Superman has powers that give him strength that seems to have no limit as well, and even MORE speed than the Hulk (but no-where-near as much as Flash...yes I said it). And he also has heat vision, ice breath (aka minty cool freshness), and X-ray vision (so that he could see what's injured on Goku, and exploit it...or just have fun with wonderwoman).
 
While goku gets overrated by you fans who seem to forget one HUGE factor in the world of DB/Z/GT...and that's that their planets are FAR smaller than our own. The earth that Goku lives on is literally that size of a state (no exaggerations). They have North, South, East, and West CITIES, the mountain area, the desert area, the snowy area, the Rocky area, (and if you just HAVE to add it for more space) Master Roshi's island. All of which covers their planet. Have you ever heard of a state from them?...No, because their planet IS a state.
 
  So jea, it would be easy to make people believe that you're stronger than what you are if you blow-up a state sized planet. But what if you were put up against people who could blow up planets...oh, I don't know...like GOD, and SATAN? Some fans seem to believe that Goku has some kind of Divine powers that make him far more powerful than what he really is.
 
 If Superman or Hulk were to get shot what would happen?...NOTHIN' BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SHOT MILLIONS OF TIMES!! But if goku where to get shot...he'd possibly die (dependin' on where he got shot). He's NOT bullet-proof, why do you think he tries his best to avoid gettin' shot?
 
Hulk kicked asgardian gods asses (yes, even Thor's), while they were all attackin' him at the same time. Superman lifted a [EXPLETIVE DELETED] island...A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND. How do you lift an island?  While Goku struggled to hold up a busload of kids...with Piccolo's help. 
 
Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man when it comes to brute strength. And all of his most powerful moves (especially Spirit bomb) take serious amounts of time to charge-up. And I'm sorry but when dealin' with someone as retard-strong as the Hulk, with no sense of fear. Of with someone as fast as a virgins first busted nut, and can lift A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND...such as Superman. And even if the attacks hit they won't do anything to Hulk of Superman. Both have been shot by guns, cannons, tanks, and even high-powered lasers. And even blown up by grenades, bombs, missiles, and rockets. Hell, Hulk had a grenade explode in his mouth, and did he die?...Hell no.So how do you possibly believe that Goku is able to do anything against them, let along other powerful characters
(Such as DarcStorm...yes I said it).
 
  Hell, Goku's biggest problem is Vegeta, because every transformation that they have both achieved Vegeta was stronger in. And that's Fact.  But no... for some idiotic reason, the fanboy's still believe that Goku has a fightin' chance against any character ever created. Eventhough he was already killed twice, and was almost killed two other times. (when Kid Buu blew-up earth, and when Baby Vegeta shot that revenge death ball at him, but supreme kai saved his ass.) In fact the only reason why Goku has lived for so long is because all he does is jump people. Name 1 powerful person that Goku fought, and beat WITHOUT the help of anyone else?
 
There's just no way Goku is strong enough to beat the majority of other characters created in one-on-one fights, because he's HIGHLY overrated...and that's pure FACT. "

Look... Gokus Fights... Destroy Planets... How many fights did Hulk Have that destroyed planets?... How many fights did SUpes have that Destroyed Planets... oh its not Goku whos over rated... its SUPEs...
 
BTW... Freeza destroyed a Planet with his Finger... Goku beat Freeza on Super Sayain One...
 
Imagine what he can do on Super Sayain II
 
EDIT:
 
i jus read the entire 1st post... and i decided... that FIne... Sure... Ok... Superman wins... Gokus planet is the size of a state now... fine...  i always thought it was a regular sized planet... but ok... I see Superman fanboys always find some BS to prove Supes is Unbeatable
 
Happy?

Fact 
 
superman has been reduced to only being able to move moons..going so far as struggling as he moves them 
 
fact hulk once had every single bone in his body broken and layed on the floor crying wanting sentry to make him feel better 
 
fact goku blocked attacks with one finger that killed someone who tanked a planet buster and tanked a planet exploding 
 
fact superman doesnt go ftl speeds on earth and when he is on earth his spped feats arent anything close to gokus and people like dende and master roshi have simliar if not better feats than him 
 
fact superman has been shown multiple times getting owned by energy based attacks almost being killed by one that barley destroyed half a city 
 
fact superman flying into the sun is a heat resistance feat/ not a feat at all seeing as he gets his powers from the sun 

fact people need to stop using the same outdated feats from superman that were don in the early to mid 90's

fact goku could kill superman and the hulk

fact people need to stop using the same outdated feats from superman that were done in the early to mid 90's

fact goku could kill superman and the hulk    

I haven't followed the entire thread, simply because it's full of nonsense, and people trying to force their opinions onto others. I'm not for that at all. So if I happen to state facts that were already established, forgive me. I didn't want to read everything through and then find myself starting a hate brigade. Anyway... both characters have unfathomable power, so much so that it is rather difficult to gauge just how powerful they truly are -- in terms of our own understanding. Why argue over whether or not each one can defeat the other? It's pointless. Let's just agree that it'd be an awesome fight to read (if they made a comic/manga of it) or watch (if they made an anime/animated movie of it).
 
On a personal note, I would think that since Goku has absorbed the Dragonballs at the end of GT (thanks to Shenron), he could very much possess the "abilities" of each dragon, as well as the combined forces of their eternal essence (that in itself granting any number of abilities on top of the "others") -- despite what people believe is canonical or not.

" I haven't followed the entire thread, simply because it's full of nonsense, and people trying to force their opinions onto others. I'm not for that at all. So if I happen to state facts that were already established, forgive me. I didn't want to read everything through and then find myself starting a hate brigade. Anyway... both characters have unfathomable power, so much so that it is rather difficult to gauge just how powerful they truly are -- in terms of our own understanding. Why argue over whether or not each one can defeat the other? It's pointless. Let's just agree that it'd be an awesome fight to read (if they made a comic/manga of it) or watch (if they made an anime/animated movie of it).  On a personal note, I would think that since Goku has absorbed the Dragonballs at the end of GT (thanks to Shenron), he could very much possess the "abilities" of each dragon, as well as the combined forces of their eternal essence (that in itself granting any number of abilities on top of the "others") -- despite what people believe is canonical or not. "

Hulk<Ss3or 4.Goku<Superman
Goku<Hulk<SuperMan
ss./ss2.Goku=Hulk<Superman

@ BiteMe-Fanboy: Boredom.
 
@ hdorman1: The boulder he pushed is questionable in weight. Some say at most, 100 tons.

@ hdorman1: Right on.
 
I wouldn't say it was overestimating. The + sign is always a nice feature. =D

When I think of Goku fans, I think about Peter Pan and when the audience is supposed to clap to bring Tinkerbell back to life

"  For some odd reason or another DBZ fans seem to go highly overboard with what Goku can do. For instants, sayin' that Goku could fight (let along KILL) Superman or the Hulk.
 
  Are you insane?
 
  Hulk's strength grows the madder he gets, he also has one of the best healin' factors Marvel has to offer (despite Deadpool, and Wolverine). He's fast, has agility, and can literally jump miles.
 
Superman has powers that give him strength that seems to have no limit as well, and even MORE speed than the Hulk (but no-where-near as much as Flash...yes I said it). And he also has heat vision, ice breath (aka minty cool freshness), and X-ray vision (so that he could see what's injured on Goku, and exploit it...or just have fun with wonderwoman).
 

Goku SSJ4/Kaioken x20. + Universal Spirit Bomb + Instant Transmission  
 
Bye Hulk 
 
All he has to do to kill superman is use instant transmission to get kryptonite .

Even if, IF, the planet they are on is smaller, Goku STILL has enough power to blow up a planet like our Earth, and can POSSIBLY do more damage.

1. Goku as a child was faster than light , as an adult he is far much faster than light. (winner= goku) . And by the way superman can just fly at light speed but goku can fly as well as FIGHT at FTL speeds. And IT is far more faster than instant light speed so I don't see it as "equal"

2. Ki vs Superman projectiles (goku)

3. Strength vs strength (if you are talking about lifting strength then superman by a mile ) but Goku's PUNCHING power is more than superman.

4. Intellect vs Intellect (of course superman is by far smarter than goku ) But goku is smarter than superman in fighting someone , so in A FIGHT Goku's intellect > Superman's intellect .

5. Durability vs Durability (superman )

So Goku wins.

@darcstorm: You're a dbz hater. From reading some of your post I know that you know little about dbz.

it will always be fact goku over rated but i don't understand why

Don't post anything about Goku, if you're stupid enough to think he's not bulletproof. If you've watched even dragonball, not Z or super or any other form, you'd see he's taken: handgun bullet with nothing more than a bump, sniper rifle to the face with not even a scratch or bump, and axe to the head with nothing but a bump (all of this no less before he even really learned ki control). Roshi, a normal human, was catching Uzi fire. Your whole post is moronic drivel, please watch a show before critiquing it. Had to post on this old thread because you, OP, are a moron.