The legend of Goku?

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#1 Edited by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio

 For some odd reason or another DBZ fans seem to go highly overboard with what Goku can do. For instants, sayin' that Goku could fight (let along KILL) Superman or the Hulk.
 
  Are you insane?
 
  Hulk's strength grows the madder he gets, he also has one of the best healin' factors Marvel has to offer (despite Deadpool, and Wolverine). He's fast, has agility, and can literally jump miles.
 
Superman has powers that give him strength that seems to have no limit as well, and even MORE speed than the Hulk (but no-where-near as much as Flash...yes I said it). And he also has heat vision, ice breath (aka minty cool freshness), and X-ray vision (so that he could see what's injured on Goku, and exploit it...or just have fun with wonderwoman).
 
While goku gets overrated by you fans who seem to forget one HUGE factor in the world of DB/Z/GT...and that's that their planets are FAR smaller than our own. The earth that Goku lives on is literally that size of a state (no exaggerations). They have North, South, East, and West CITIES, the mountain area, the desert area, the snowy area, the Rocky area, (and if you just HAVE to add it for more space) Master Roshi's island. All of which covers their planet. Have you ever heard of a state from them?...No, because their planet IS a state.
 
  So jea, it would be easy to make people believe that you're stronger than what you are if you blow-up a state sized planet. But what if you were put up against people who could blow up planets...oh, I don't know...like GOD, and SATAN? Some fans seem to believe that Goku has some kind of Divine powers that make him far more powerful than what he really is.
 
 If Superman or Hulk were to get shot what would happen?...NOTHIN' BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SHOT MILLIONS OF TIMES!! But if goku where to get shot...he'd possibly die (dependin' on where he got shot). He's NOT bullet-proof, why do you think he tries his best to avoid gettin' shot?
 
Hulk kicked asgardian gods asses (yes, even Thor's), while they were all attackin' him at the same time. Superman lifted a [EXPLETIVE DELETED] island...A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND. How do you lift an island?  While Goku struggled to hold up a busload of kids...with Piccolo's help. 
 
Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man when it comes to brute strength. And all of his most powerful moves (especially Spirit bomb) take serious amounts of time to charge-up. And I'm sorry but when dealin' with someone as retard-strong as the Hulk, with no sense of fear. Of with someone as fast as a virgins first busted nut, and can lift A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND...such as Superman. And even if the attacks hit they won't do anything to Hulk of Superman. Both have been shot by guns, cannons, tanks, and even high-powered lasers. And even blown up by grenades, bombs, missiles, and rockets. Hell, Hulk had a grenade explode in his mouth, and did he die?...Hell no.So how do you possibly believe that Goku is able to do anything against them, let along other powerful characters
(Such as DarcStorm...yes I said it).
 
  Hell, Goku's biggest problem is Vegeta, because every transformation that they have both achieved Vegeta was stronger in. And that's Fact.  But no... for some idiotic reason, the fanboy's still believe that Goku has a fightin' chance against any character ever created. Eventhough he was already killed twice, and was almost killed two other times. (when Kid Buu blew-up earth, and when Baby Vegeta shot that revenge death ball at him, but supreme kai saved his ass.) In fact the only reason why Goku has lived for so long is because all he does is jump people. Name 1 powerful person that Goku fought, and beat WITHOUT the help of anyone else?
 
There's just no way Goku is strong enough to beat the majority of other characters created in one-on-one fights, because he's HIGHLY overrated...and that's pure FACT.

#2 Posted by The_Warlord (1777 posts) - - Show Bio

You make a good point there, as much as I like DBZ, Goku is kinda overrated

#3 Posted by ThisIsGonnaHurt (30140 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku fanboys will say the same thing about Superman and Hulk, Hulk fanboys about Goku and Superman, and Superman fanboys about Goku and Hulk. It's a neverending cycle, you can't change it, get used to it.

#4 Posted by xerox_kitty (15761 posts) - - Show Bio

Rant to your heart's content, but censor your own swearing in future.

Moderator
#5 Posted by ThisIsGonnaHurt (30140 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerox-kitty said:
" Rant to your heart's content, but censor your own swearing in future. "
O_o
 
Mods can censor posts? That's awesome! xD
#6 Posted by DaMan (1283 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm:
Goku is overrated, but so is Superman and Hulk. Mostly everything else you said is completely dumb and untrue.  
#7 Posted by King Saturn (223816 posts) - - Show Bio
Goku's Fanboys make him Powerful... its like Popeye eating his Spinach...
#8 Edited by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
@DaMan: I never said that Superman or the Hulk weren't overrated. They actually are...but reasonably so. You see, they both have weaknesses. Superman has different weakness effects from shiny odd-colored rocks, as Hulk can either be calmed down or tranqued a LOT. And what do you think I was lyin' about? That Goku isn't as strong as people CLAIM he is? That Goku never won a fight against anyone WITHOUT jumpin' them first? Or that people get so proud of Goku bein' able to destroy state-sized planets? Because all of what I said was facts that were proven over the 20+ years that DB/Z/GT has been out.
 
 I was talkin' about Goku in general because all DB/Z/GT fanboys do is try their best to say that Goku can beat anyone, even if he's far less superior to who he'd be fightin'. That makes no sense. Supersaiyan 4 is the end of the road people...there is no 5,6,7...nothin'. And supersaiyan 4 isn't even THAT strong. All I saw in GT that made supersaiyan 4 look challengin' was when he first turned it and fought Baby Vegeta. After that...it was just a useless form that everyone seemed to be more powerful than. Against super 17 and Omega, supersaiyan 4 did nothin'. But when fightin' the same two people as a little kid...he kills them?
 
Now don't get me wrong, I DON'T hate DB/Z/GT, I just don't like overrated characters. I actually like Goku MORE than Superman. I mean really, if Superman was to die today I wouldn't care...I'd laugh, but I wouldn't care.
 
Just keep the characters reasonable is all I'm sayin'. Stop sayin' that they can beat people that they have no chance (what-so-ever) against. Like Supersaiyan (anything) v.s the Presences? The Presences is GOD, how could Goku beat that?
 
There are a LOT of people Goku can beat, But Superman, Hulk, DarcStorm, Satan, God, and others (that would make a list too long to post) are just too far out of his league to fight (especially without the help of the rest of the cast of DB/Z/GT). So people please just be logical with what you think to stop people from laughin' at the large amounts of retardation that you  throw all about when talkin' about your favorite characters. That's all I'm sayin'.
#9 Posted by War Killer (19972 posts) - - Show Bio
@Warsman said:
" @xerox-kitty said:
" Rant to your heart's content, but censor your own swearing in future. "
O_o  Mods can censor posts? That's awesome! xD "

Lol, I was thinking the same thing xD
Online
#10 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7556 posts) - - Show Bio

uhhhh ok?.....thanks for that.
 
-golf claps-

#11 Posted by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
@BiteMe-Fanboy:  What are you talkin' about?
#12 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7556 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm said:
" @BiteMe-Fanboy:  What are you talkin' about? "
I'm just tired of these DBZ threads that either praise the characters or try to disprove how strong they are.
#13 Posted by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
@BiteMe-Fanboy: No...I was just wonderin' what golf clap means?
#14 Posted by mv (1876 posts) - - Show Bio

Some dbz fans say becuase vegeta destroyed a planet in his normal state, and goku's gotten stronger than vegeta, he can beat superman with his blasts..what you think ?

#15 Posted by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
@MTS: Like I said...DB/Z/GT planets are FAR smaller than our own (they're the size of a state). So if What happened happened, then by now Goku's max powered strongest move should only be able to destroy half of a country (in our world)...and that move would be Spirit Bomb. And who with common sense would let Goku build up the power for that move...let along give him their power to use it? And if he can't use his strongest move...how can he beat Superman?
#16 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7556 posts) - - Show Bio

Vegeta destroying Arlia wasn't canon.
 
And is it canon that Earth on DBZ is the size as you say it is?....any proof? because i'm curious now. lol.

#17 Posted by GOUKI (437 posts) - - Show Bio
@BiteMe-Fanboy said:
"Vegeta destroying Arlia wasn't canon.  And is it canon that Earth on DBZ is the size as you say it is?....any proof? because i'm curious now. lol. "

as am I...uh, biteme-fanboy??
 
@DarcStorm, prove that DBZ earth is smaller than OUR earth....
 
now im not saying goku isnt overrated, but superman is more overrated than Goku IMO...and they're not even close to being as overrated as a few other people so im told....
#18 Posted by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
@BiteMe-Fanboy: The proof is in it of itself. You see their are no states, countries, continents...nothing to spread out the different cultures that are suppose to be scattered around a world with different states, countries, and continents. Everyone just lives in the one state that is their planet. You can't even name anythin' of place value that's not a city or smaller, because their planet is the state that the cities are located in. A perfect example would be Gotenks. He went around the world in under 30 minutes,(which is nice) but people SAW him. How can you go around the massive planet that is Earth in less than 30 minutes so fast...but yet be seen by the people you're goin' past?
 
Put it this way: If I were to run 1 miles in 10 minutes there would be more of a chance for people to see me than if I were to run 10 miles in 10 minutes. So their planet is significantly smaller than our own.
#19 Posted by GOUKI (437 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm said:
" @BiteMe-Fanboy: The proof is in it of itself. You see their are no states, countries, continents...nothing to spread out the different cultures that are suppose to be scattered around a world with different states, countries, and continents. Everyone just lives in the one state that is their planet. You can't even name anythin' of place value that's not a city or smaller, because their planet is the state that the cities are located in. A perfect example would be Gotenks. He went around the world in under 30 minutes,(which is nice) but people SAW him. How can you go around the massive planet that is Earth in less than 30 minutes so fast...but yet be seen by the people you're goin' past?  Put it this way: If I were to run 1 miles in 10 minutes there would be more of a chance for people to see me than if I were to run 10 miles in 10 minutes. So their planet is significantly smaller than our own. "

okay well, actually during that time period,and in that universe, there not going to have the US, Asia, and Europe, its not like the earth we know.... and even all that was a simple mass of land before it was divided into the continents we know today, plus dinosaurs still exist in that world. i think toriyama chose it that way..to have a mix of past and future together.  flying car tech with dinosuars and a single land mass not yet divided.. amoung other things.

so i dont think what you said really proves that their earth is smaller than ours. i think it just means that they have no continents except 1 or 2 and they are very huge.like OUR earth was thousands of years ago like in the time of the dinosaurs...but i could be wrong... 
#20 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7556 posts) - - Show Bio

Whenever it showed earth from space it always looked pretty damn big..like how it does irl..
 
and frieza destroyed namek and planet vegeta, and they looked pretty damn big....

#21 Posted by DaMan (1283 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm:
Goku may be overrated by his fans, but it doesn't help the situation when he's being underrated either. Now let me go over some of the things you said in your 1st post.
 
@DarcStorm said:

"While goku gets overrated by you fans who seem to forget one HUGE factor in the world of DB/Z/GT...and that's that their planets are FAR smaller than our own. The earth that Goku lives on is literally that size of a state (no exaggerations). They have North, South, East, and West CITIES, the mountain area, the desert area, the snowy area, the Rocky area, (and if you just HAVE to add it for more space) Master Roshi's island. All of which covers their planet. Have you ever heard of a state from them?...No, because their planet IS a state."

This does not prove the size of Goku's earth. There really isn't anything (that I've seen or heard) that stated how large it was, so how can you just guess to make DBZ characters seem weaker? You have to assume their earth is the same size as ours unless you can prove otherwise. If you have proof, share it with the rest of us.
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"If Superman or Hulk were to get shot what would happen?...NOTHIN' BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SHOT MILLIONS OF TIMES!! But if goku where to get shot...he'd possibly die (dependin' on where he got shot). He's NOT bullet-proof, why do you think he tries his best to avoid gettin' shot?"

Now that's funny. In Dragon Ball Bulma shot Goku and he survived. He has much more durability than you think.
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man when it comes to brute strength. And all of his most powerful moves (especially Spirit bomb) take serious amounts of time to charge-up. And I'm sorry but when dealin' with someone as retard-strong as the Hulk, with no sense of fear. Of with someone as fast as a virgins first busted nut, and can lift A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND...such as Superman. And even if the attacks hit they won't do anything to Hulk of Superman. Both have been shot by guns, cannons, tanks, and even high-powered lasers. And even blown up by grenades, bombs, missiles, and rockets. Hell, Hulk had a grenade explode in his mouth, and did he die?...Hell no.So how do you possibly believe that Goku is able to do anything against them, let along other powerful characters
(Such as DarcStorm...yes I said it)."

Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man? Did you mean Superman?  
Charging blasts won't be a problem because he can IT somewhere else and come back with it fully charged. All the things you listed there aren't impressive when it comes to certain DBZ characters. Cell (before he became perfect Cell) took on the military, but that really isn't impressive either.       
 
 @DarcStorm said:

" Hell, Goku's biggest problem is Vegeta, because every transformation that they have both achieved Vegeta was stronger in. And that's Fact."

 Actually, it was the other way around. Watch the Buu Saga. 
 
@DarcStorm said:

"Name 1 powerful person that Goku fought, and beat WITHOUT the help of anyone else?"

Seriously? Do I really need to answer this question? If you watched the tournament saga in dragon ball you'd know that Goku won many fights on his own. He beat Pikkon on his own and in GT he solo'd Freiza & Cell too. There's even more opponents than that but that's all I'll give you.
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"he's HIGHLY overrated."

And your post shows that he's HIGHLY underrated as well.
 
#22 Posted by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
@GOUKI said:
" @DarcStorm said:
" @BiteMe-Fanboy: The proof is in it of itself. You see their are no states, countries, continents...nothing to spread out the different cultures that are suppose to be scattered around a world with different states, countries, and continents. Everyone just lives in the one state that is their planet. You can't even name anythin' of place value that's not a city or smaller, because their planet is the state that the cities are located in. A perfect example would be Gotenks. He went around the world in under 30 minutes,(which is nice) but people SAW him. How can you go around the massive planet that is Earth in less than 30 minutes so fast...but yet be seen by the people you're goin' past?  Put it this way: If I were to run 1 miles in 10 minutes there would be more of a chance for people to see me than if I were to run 10 miles in 10 minutes. So their planet is significantly smaller than our own. "
okay well, actually during that time period,and in that universe, there not going to have the US, Asia, and Europe, its not like the earth we know.... and even all that was a simple mass of land before it was divided into the continents we know today, plus dinosaurs still exist in that world. i think toriyama chose it that way..to have a mix of past and future together.  flying car tech with dinosuars and a single land mass not yet divided.. amoung other things.so i dont think what you said really proves that their earth is smaller than ours. i think it just means that they have no continents except 1 or 2 and they are very huge.like OUR earth was thousands of years ago like in the time of the dinosaurs...but i could be wrong...  "

In the times when earth was only one continent it was a lot smaller than what it is today. It became bigger over the years by dividin' and and spreadin' out. So that only helps to prove what I said. Also I do believe Superman is overrated as well. Sayin' that he can beat anyone is ridiculous, especially with all the shiny rocks that could kill him. But there is more nonsense about Goku than there is about Superman, and it just get tirin' to see. It's just like if I were to say Tweety bird could beat Yamcha. And I started sayin that Tweety could lift 30,000 lbs., and fly at supersonic speed (sonic the hedgehog supersonic). Isn't that highly overratin' Tweety?...jea, cause he can't do any of that at all.
 
 
 
@BiteMe-Fanboy said:
" Whenever it showed earth from space it always looked pretty damn big..like how it does irl..  and frieza destroyed namek and planet vegeta, and they looked pretty damn big.... "
The Moon looks pretty big too, but it's severally smaller than earth isn't it? And just like with Namek, they went all over that planet in like 3 hours lookin' for the dragonballs.
 
 
@DaMan said:
" @DarcStorm:
Goku may be overrated by his fans, but it doesn't help the situation when he's being underrated either. Now let me go over some of the things you said in your 1st post.
 
@DarcStorm said:

"While goku gets overrated by you fans who seem to forget one HUGE factor in the world of DB/Z/GT...and that's that their planets are FAR smaller than our own. The earth that Goku lives on is literally that size of a state (no exaggerations). They have North, South, East, and West CITIES, the mountain area, the desert area, the snowy area, the Rocky area, (and if you just HAVE to add it for more space) Master Roshi's island. All of which covers their planet. Have you ever heard of a state from them?...No, because their planet IS a state."

This does not prove the size of Goku's earth. There really isn't anything (that I've seen or heard) that stated how large it was, so how can you just guess to make DBZ characters seem weaker? You have to assume their earth is the same size as ours unless you can prove otherwise. If you have proof, share it with the rest of us.
 
 
 You don't have to assume that a planet that everyone just always seems to be near each other is small...because it doesn't take much effort to be in the next city by just walkin'.
 
 
@DarcStorm said:

"If Superman or Hulk were to get shot what would happen?...NOTHIN' BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SHOT MILLIONS OF TIMES!! But if goku where to get shot...he'd possibly die (dependin' on where he got shot). He's NOT bullet-proof, why do you think he tries his best to avoid gettin' shot?"

Now that's funny. In Dragon Ball Bulma shot Goku and he survived. He has much more durability than you think.
 
 
I said he'd POSSIBLY die didn't I? And that fact that he had to survive it only proves my point even further that he's NOT bullet-proof.
 

 @DarcStorm said:

"Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man when it comes to brute strength. And all of his most powerful moves (especially Spirit bomb) take serious amounts of time to charge-up. And I'm sorry but when dealin' with someone as retard-strong as the Hulk, with no sense of fear. Of with someone as fast as a virgins first busted nut, and can lift A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND...such as Superman. And even if the attacks hit they won't do anything to Hulk of Superman. Both have been shot by guns, cannons, tanks, and even high-powered lasers. And even blown up by grenades, bombs, missiles, and rockets. Hell, Hulk had a grenade explode in his mouth, and did he die?...Hell no.So how do you possibly believe that Goku is able to do anything against them, let along other powerful characters
(Such as DarcStorm...yes I said it)."

Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man? Did you mean Superman?  
Charging blasts won't be a problem because he can IT somewhere else and come back with it fully charged. All the things you listed there aren't impressive when it comes to certain DBZ characters. Cell (before he became perfect Cell) took on the military, but that really isn't impressive either.       
 
 
No, I meant Spider-man, cause I was talkin' about brute strength. When it comes down to it Goku can't out lift Spider-man people seem to keep overrating his strength by sayin' that he can lift "600 tons...or more", when the most he has ever lifted was...the school bus of kids. And he struggled, and needed Piccolo's help. Spider-man can lift a bus by himself. And Cell only took on the military because he could heal. If he couldn't the military would've killed him. Name sothin' impressive that Goku did on his own?...nothin'.
 


 @DarcStorm said:

" Hell, Goku's biggest problem is Vegeta, because every transformation that they have both achieved Vegeta was stronger in. And that's Fact."

 Actually, it was the other way around. Watch the Buu Saga. 
 
 
 No it wasn't. I watched the Buu saga, and in it Vegeta only said that Goku was stronger because He was at ss3 and Vegeta himself was only at ss2. Now what I was talkin' about was that When Vegeta first went supersaiyan, Piccolo himself said that Vegeta might be more powerful than Goku. And then, when Vegeta showed that he was hidin' his true power level it was confirmed that his ss1 was more powerful than Goku's. And in the Buu saga Majin Vegeta fought ss2 Goku evenly, and both of them were usin' their full power in that form. Goku even said that if he used anymore of his power he would've changed into ss3. And since Majin Vegeta was tied with ss2 Goku, then Vegeta gained more power changin' into ss2, doesn't that mean that Vegeta's ss2 is stornger than Goku's?...jea.
 
 
@DarcStorm said:

"Name 1 powerful person that Goku fought, and beat WITHOUT the help of anyone else?"

Seriously? Do I really need to answer this question? If you watched the tournament saga in dragon ball you'd know that Goku won many fights on his own. He beat Pikkon on his own and in GT he solo'd Freiza & Cell too. There's even more opponents than that but that's all I'll give you.
 
 
In Dragonball no-one was strong, the best they had was king Piccolo, and his power level was what...1000. that's not strong.  And Goku never beat Pikkon their fight was a draw, because they both landed on the ceilin'. And in GT Freiza and Cell weren't strong anymore. They were just weak dead people. Againt Vegeta in the saiyan saga what happened? Goku was left a bloody, and beaten mess, while Krillin, Gohan, and Yajorobi (however you spell it) took turns jumpin' Vegeta. (but for some reason people seem to believe that Goku won that fight...don't know how). And in the Freiza saga...Vegeta, Krillin, Gohan, and Piccolo helped Goku jump Freiza. So again where was the fair fightin'? Against Cell Goku did fight him one-on-one, but didn't he give-up?...and isn't a give-up a loss?...jea. Against Majin Vegeta Goku fought him evenly until he got knocked out by Vegeta (and people believe Goku won this fight as well). Even against Buu (Fat, Super, and Kid), he tied with fat, and was only jumpin' the other two (jea...Vegito is jumpin' someone because it's 2 people fightin' someone at the same time). Goku, Vegeta, Fat Buu, and even Hercule took turns fightin' Kid Buu (and that's jumpin'). Jumped Brolly, jumped Bojack, jumped everyone they came across...Goku does nothin' on his own against strong people?
 
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"he's HIGHLY overrated."

And your post shows that he's HIGHLY underrated as well.  "
 
 Your post were only bad attempts at tryin' to justify the over exploited feats that Goku CAN"T accomplish on his own.
#23 Posted by GOUKI (437 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm said:
" @GOUKI said:
" @DarcStorm said:
" @BiteMe-Fanboy: The proof is in it of itself. You see their are no states, countries, continents...nothing to spread out the different cultures that are suppose to be scattered around a world with different states, countries, and continents. Everyone just lives in the one state that is their planet. You can't even name anythin' of place value that's not a city or smaller, because their planet is the state that the cities are located in. A perfect example would be Gotenks. He went around the world in under 30 minutes,(which is nice) but people SAW him. How can you go around the massive planet that is Earth in less than 30 minutes so fast...but yet be seen by the people you're goin' past?  Put it this way: If I were to run 1 miles in 10 minutes there would be more of a chance for people to see me than if I were to run 10 miles in 10 minutes. So their planet is significantly smaller than our own. "
okay well, actually during that time period,and in that universe, there not going to have the US, Asia, and Europe, its not like the earth we know.... and even all that was a simple mass of land before it was divided into the continents we know today, plus dinosaurs still exist in that world. i think toriyama chose it that way..to have a mix of past and future together.  flying car tech with dinosuars and a single land mass not yet divided.. amoung other things.so i dont think what you said really proves that their earth is smaller than ours. i think it just means that they have no continents except 1 or 2 and they are very huge.like OUR earth was thousands of years ago like in the time of the dinosaurs...but i could be wrong...  "

In the times when earth was only one continent it was a lot smaller than what it is today. It became bigger over the years by dividin' and and spreadin' out. So that only helps to prove what I said. Also I do believe Superman is overrated as well. Sayin' that he can beat anyone is ridiculous, especially with all the shiny rocks that could kill him. But there is more nonsense about Goku than there is about Superman, and it just get tirin' to see. It's just like if I were to say Tweety bird could beat Yamcha. And I started sayin that Tweety could lift 30,000 lbs., and fly at supersonic speed (sonic the hedgehog supersonic). Isn't that highly overratin' Tweety?...jea, cause he can't do any of that at all.
 
 

 
"

@DarcStorm:
yes the CONTINENTS divided and spreaded out...but the Earth remained the same Size....  
and your arguement was that the earth was smaller in DBZ than in our earth when infact it was actually the same size...just the continents were a whole instead of divided... 
 
continents being divided and spread out dosent make the earth size smaller or larger. the earth size 2 mil years ago is the same size it is today, only what was ON the earth is what changed over those years.
 the Earth has always been the same size since its creation...just not the same look.... 
 
in the superman comics earth looks like it does today... 
in DBZ earth looks similar to what it did during the dinosuar age... 
 but both earths are the same size...just the looks are different...  
 
 
as for the overrated and underrated thing...i think goku is not as overrated as superman simply because superman has more fans than goku and he's more popular.. 
now yea the both have their nonsense fanboys but IMO superman has the worst fanboys out of the two...and the worst writers...my godness, if Joe and Jerry were alive i wonder how they would react to thier char's evolution since they died.....lol
#24 Posted by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
@GOUKI: The earth did expand over the years, that's why the one mass of land is now divided into several. If the one mass of land was didived by natural causes, then wouldn't those seperated pieces of land still be driftin' today? Because when a pieces of land loses the part of itself that keeps it attached to that part of the ground, how does it  get it back?
 
So jea, the earth did get bigger. And by it gettin' bigger FORCED the one mass of land to divide and become the continents that we live on today.
 
But jea, people do talk a lot of nonsense about their favorite characters over exaggerating what they can (and in most cases CANNOT) do. Superman may have more fans in the us, but worldwide...it would be Goku. And like I said before I prefer Goku to Superman, but I hate when people keep talkin' about Goku as if there's nothin' he can't do, and no-one he can't beat. Eventhough there're several people that CAN beat Goku (ss anything).
#25 Posted by GOUKI (437 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm said:

" @GOUKI: The earth did expand over the years, that's why the one mass of land is now divided into several. If the one mass of land was didived by natural causes, then wouldn't those seperated pieces of land still be driftin' today? Because when a pieces of land loses the part of itself that keeps it attached to that part of the ground, how does it  get it back?  So jea, the earth did get bigger. And by it gettin' bigger FORCED the one mass of land to divide and become the continents that we live on today.  But jea, people do talk a lot of nonsense about their favorite characters over exaggerating what they can (and in most cases CANNOT) do. Superman may have more fans in the us, but worldwide...it would be Goku. And like I said before I prefer Goku to Superman, but I hate when people keep talkin' about Goku as if there's nothin' he can't do, and no-one he can't beat. Eventhough there're several people that CAN beat Goku (ss anything). "


the continents or Plates are drifting....
 Each plate is approximately 50 miles thick and moves anywhere from 1/2 inch to several inches per year....this is called Plate Tectonics..which talks about the movement of continents.. 
 
The continents started out as a single land mass. The land floats on a sea of molten magma so it's not sitting still, volcanic eruptions and earthquakes tear the land apart from itself, as it continued to drift and break apart, over time the continents have formed this way. In a billion years the continents will look alot different than they do now.  
#26 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio

KAL-EL>GOKU>HULK 
 
that's how it goes kids.
#27 Posted by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
Goku is far...FAR down the list of strong beings.
 
@GOUKI: Alright you lost me with whatever the hell you said. so lets just agree to disagree. Cause I stand by my comment on DB/Z/GT earth bein' massively smaller than our own.
#28 Posted by GOUKI (437 posts) - - Show Bio


Lol, it was only a small paragraph...of me summing up what Plate Tectonics is...which talks about the Movement of Continents and how they broke apart.

because you said "If the one mass of land was didived(you spelt that wrong) by natural causes, then wouldn't those seperated pieces of land still be driftin' today?" 
 
and i said that the continents ARE drifting..and that you can look up(if you want) Plate Tectonics which talks about continental drift...  and it will tell you that this continent(as well as others) is infact drifting.........what did you think we were just sitting here? Lol hahaha...
 
anyway, yes Goku is not invincble, but neither is Superman...both can be defeated...now can one defeat the other? i have my opinion, but id rather not use fire at a gas station.....if you know what i mean...Lol. 
 

 

 

#29 Posted by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio

Jea, I think, you think, that Goku would win. It's your opinion...but I think your opinion (in my opinion) is wrong. But they both can be defeated  by lots of other people.

#30 Posted by GOUKI (437 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm said:
"Jea, I think, you think, that Goku would win. It's your opinion...but I think your opinion (in my opinion) is wrong. But they both can be defeated  by lots of other people. "

well, as long you know that I didnt say goku could beat supes, then im okay with your opinion on the subject....lol 
and i agree, both can be defeated by alot of other people.... 
 
i just don't look at superman the same way others do. 
i look at him as TAS superman. now pre crisis supes, yea i seen his powers before, but back in that time it was possible for anybody to do crazy stuff like he's been shown doing...it was the 40s and 50s for goodness sake Lol...where didnt nobody care what scienticfically didnt make sense..they just wanted to be entertained....and thats what they got...and are still getting...lol. 
 
and why do you keep spelling yea as "Jea" ..?
#31 Posted by Matezoide2 (15994 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku owned Nappa
Goku was beating Vegeta,who had to cheat in order to win
Goku owned the Ginyu Force
Goku defeated Freeza one-on-one,the others guys were just holding him
Goku could beat Cell,the reason he didnt is because he wanted Gohan to defeat him
Goku and Vegeta were envely matched,but Goku never used SSJ3 and the reason he was knocked out is because he canceled his transformation and was hit by behind,had him used all his power,Vegeta would have been defeated
Goku could beat Majin Buu,he didnt because he wanted the kids to take him down,but the fight was evenly matched

#32 Posted by rein (1330 posts) - - Show Bio

Look i think people underestimate goku on this site, because of all the Dbz trolls that come on here. No, Goku can not beat a man who can fly fast enough to leave the multiverse, and hit people so hard they go back in time. But that does not imply he is week. In The original series, master roshi could already destroy the moon. They were planet busters in the saiyan saga, and reached solar system level In the cell saga. Goku is a powerful character. he deserves respect. (note: i've always thought of  goku as more of a caster then a Tank like superman and thor)

#33 Posted by GOUKI (437 posts) - - Show Bio
@rein said:
"Look i think people underestimate goku on this site, because of all the Dbz trolls that come on here. No, Goku can not beat a man who can fly fast enough to leave the multiverse, and hit people so hard they go back in time. But that does not imply he is week. In The original series, master roshi could already destroy the moon. They were planet busters in the saiyan saga, and reached solar system level In the cell saga. Goku is a powerful character. he deserves respect. (note: i've always thought of  goku as more of a caster then a Tank like superman and thor) "

now i agree with mostly everything you just said....
#34 Posted by JackieEstacado (132 posts) - - Show Bio

dude i don't know if i agree with you goku is really, really, really strong so....
#35 Posted by GOUKI (437 posts) - - Show Bio
@JackieEstacado said:
"dude i don't know if i agree with you goku is really, really, really strong so.... "

i know but come on, physically Superman is much stronger than goku....
#36 Posted by DaMan (1283 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm said:
@DaMan said:
" @DarcStorm:
Goku may be overrated by his fans, but it doesn't help the situation when he's being underrated either. Now let me go over some of the things you said in your 1st post.
 
@DarcStorm said:

"While goku gets overrated by you fans who seem to forget one HUGE factor in the world of DB/Z/GT...and that's that their planets are FAR smaller than our own. The earth that Goku lives on is literally that size of a state (no exaggerations). They have North, South, East, and West CITIES, the mountain area, the desert area, the snowy area, the Rocky area, (and if you just HAVE to add it for more space) Master Roshi's island. All of which covers their planet. Have you ever heard of a state from them?...No, because their planet IS a state."

This does not prove the size of Goku's earth. There really isn't anything (that I've seen or heard) that stated how large it was, so how can you just guess to make DBZ characters seem weaker? You have to assume their earth is the same size as ours unless you can prove otherwise. If you have proof, share it with the rest of us.
 
 
 You don't have to assume that a planet that everyone just always seems to be near each other is small...because it doesn't take much effort to be in the next city by just walkin'.
 
 
@DarcStorm said:

"If Superman or Hulk were to get shot what would happen?...NOTHIN' BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SHOT MILLIONS OF TIMES!! But if goku where to get shot...he'd possibly die (dependin' on where he got shot). He's NOT bullet-proof, why do you think he tries his best to avoid gettin' shot?"

Now that's funny. In Dragon Ball Bulma shot Goku and he survived. He has much more durability than you think.
 
 
I said he'd POSSIBLY die didn't I? And that fact that he had to survive it only proves my point even further that he's NOT bullet-proof.
 

 @DarcStorm said:

"Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man when it comes to brute strength. And all of his most powerful moves (especially Spirit bomb) take serious amounts of time to charge-up. And I'm sorry but when dealin' with someone as retard-strong as the Hulk, with no sense of fear. Of with someone as fast as a virgins first busted nut, and can lift A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND...such as Superman. And even if the attacks hit they won't do anything to Hulk of Superman. Both have been shot by guns, cannons, tanks, and even high-powered lasers. And even blown up by grenades, bombs, missiles, and rockets. Hell, Hulk had a grenade explode in his mouth, and did he die?...Hell no.So how do you possibly believe that Goku is able to do anything against them, let along other powerful characters
(Such as DarcStorm...yes I said it)."

Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man? Did you mean Superman?  
Charging blasts won't be a problem because he can IT somewhere else and come back with it fully charged. All the things you listed there aren't impressive when it comes to certain DBZ characters. Cell (before he became perfect Cell) took on the military, but that really isn't impressive either.       
 
 
No, I meant Spider-man, cause I was talkin' about brute strength. When it comes down to it Goku can't out lift Spider-man people seem to keep overrating his strength by sayin' that he can lift "600 tons...or more", when the most he has ever lifted was...the school bus of kids. And he struggled, and needed Piccolo's help. Spider-man can lift a bus by himself. And Cell only took on the military because he could heal. If he couldn't the military would've killed him. Name sothin' impressive that Goku did on his own?...nothin'.
 


 @DarcStorm said:

" Hell, Goku's biggest problem is Vegeta, because every transformation that they have both achieved Vegeta was stronger in. And that's Fact."

 Actually, it was the other way around. Watch the Buu Saga. 
 
 
 No it wasn't. I watched the Buu saga, and in it Vegeta only said that Goku was stronger because He was at ss3 and Vegeta himself was only at ss2. Now what I was talkin' about was that When Vegeta first went supersaiyan, Piccolo himself said that Vegeta might be more powerful than Goku. And then, when Vegeta showed that he was hidin' his true power level it was confirmed that his ss1 was more powerful than Goku's. And in the Buu saga Majin Vegeta fought ss2 Goku evenly, and both of them were usin' their full power in that form. Goku even said that if he used anymore of his power he would've changed into ss3. And since Majin Vegeta was tied with ss2 Goku, then Vegeta gained more power changin' into ss2, doesn't that mean that Vegeta's ss2 is stornger than Goku's?...jea.
 
 
@DarcStorm said:

"Name 1 powerful person that Goku fought, and beat WITHOUT the help of anyone else?"

Seriously? Do I really need to answer this question? If you watched the tournament saga in dragon ball you'd know that Goku won many fights on his own. He beat Pikkon on his own and in GT he solo'd Freiza & Cell too. There's even more opponents than that but that's all I'll give you.
 
 
In Dragonball no-one was strong, the best they had was king Piccolo, and his power level was what...1000. that's not strong.  And Goku never beat Pikkon their fight was a draw, because they both landed on the ceilin'. And in GT Freiza and Cell weren't strong anymore. They were just weak dead people. Againt Vegeta in the saiyan saga what happened? Goku was left a bloody, and beaten mess, while Krillin, Gohan, and Yajorobi (however you spell it) took turns jumpin' Vegeta. (but for some reason people seem to believe that Goku won that fight...don't know how). And in the Freiza saga...Vegeta, Krillin, Gohan, and Piccolo helped Goku jump Freiza. So again where was the fair fightin'? Against Cell Goku did fight him one-on-one, but didn't he give-up?...and isn't a give-up a loss?...jea. Against Majin Vegeta Goku fought him evenly until he got knocked out by Vegeta (and people believe Goku won this fight as well). Even against Buu (Fat, Super, and Kid), he tied with fat, and was only jumpin' the other two (jea...Vegito is jumpin' someone because it's 2 people fightin' someone at the same time). Goku, Vegeta, Fat Buu, and even Hercule took turns fightin' Kid Buu (and that's jumpin'). Jumped Brolly, jumped Bojack, jumped everyone they came across...Goku does nothin' on his own against strong people?
 
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"he's HIGHLY overrated."

And your post shows that he's HIGHLY underrated as well.  "
 
 Your post were only bad attempts at tryin' to justify the over exploited feats that Goku CAN"T accomplish on his own.

1. In other words you don't have proof. Moving on...

2. No, he wouldn't possibly die. He's been shot before and it didn't even scratch him. The fact that he survived being shot proves he's not bullet proof, even though he's taken bullets before? WOW. It's obvious you're bias. Superman can survive being punched in the face by Bruce. Does that mean he can't take it? Lol. Your attempts at trying to make Goku look weak are horrible. 
 
3. Another horrible attempt. Spiderman is a 25 tonner. Goku lifted over 40 tons on each limb. Not only that but his power increases with each SS transformation. He's way stronger than you think, and it doesn't take a genius to realize that Goku barely being to lift a bus is PIS. Either that, or the episode was non-canon because I haven't seen it before. Goku has many impressive feats that I refuse to share with a typical DBZ hater. Cell didn't take any damage -period-, but you seem like someone who has no knowledge of DBZ so it's understandable why you think the way you do.

4. Yes it was and the Buu saga proved that. Maybe if you weren't bias you'd pay attention to what actually happens in DBZ. Goku beat Vegeta in their 1st encounter. Goku defeated Frieza, but Vegeta couldn't. Goku stalemated Cell, but Vegeta didn't even come close. Goku was able to reach SS3 by the end of DBZ, but Vegeta couldn't and he even admitted that Goku was the better fighter. So with that said, Vegeta's word > Your word. Majin Vegeta was not stronger than SS2 Goku so you're not going to get anywhere by comparing them. In fact the only way Vegeta could fight Goku equally was by allowing Babidi to take control of him. Majin Vegeta was at SS2 when he was fighting Goku. Pay attention when you watch the show man.

5. At the time some of the DB characters were powerful opponents for Goku and he defeated them. They're fight was NOT a draw you liar. How can you land on a ceiling, LOL? They were both fighting outside in a ring. Goku blasted Pikkon with a kamehameha which sent him out of the ring. Cell and Frieza were still powerful, but Goku was even more powerful. Goku defeated Vegeta already. Goku defeated Frieza's final form on his own. Goku could've beat Cell but he helped him recover instead. Vegeta needed a power up by Babidi to even get on Goku's level in the 1st place. Not only that, but he had to cheat in order to KO him. So you want one character to steal the limelight? Other characters need to be shown off to show that they're powerful as well. Stop trying to figure a way around what Goku does and accept it. Look at how many other characters need help to fight someone. Why don't you make a rant about them? Wait, I know the answer. It's because you're bias against Goku. Superman cannot defeat an opponent who is superior to him in every way without help either. If he could then it would be PIS. This is not something that is hard to understand. 
 
6. This thread is a fail.

#37 Posted by GrayWolf (206 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay.  I'm new in the sense that I don't have a lot of posts but I have seen enough dbz battle forums to realize that goku is either severly overrated or underrated.  
The reason why I think is that a lot of people still have yet to realize that goku and dbz was made in Japan and thus have a very different set of rules when compared 
to western comic characters.  The main one being physical strength.  In manga with characters powered by ki or spiritual energy overpowering your opponent  is  
determined by how much power you have as opposed to how much you can lift.  An example would be in YuYu Hakusho when Yusuke who had never shown the 
kind of physical strength that younger Toguro had, erupted with power ,and stopped toguro by grabbing his arm and clocking him.  Toguro tried to move it but could 
not.  How could a guy who complained about how heavy puu was stop a guy who carried the whole ring by himself without effort.  I don't know but he did because  
that is how it works.  In dbz general Tao can rip off a couple hundred pound pillar and throw it at about mach7.5.  Kid goku never showed anything like that but after  
powering up a little on korins tower he managed to overpower general tao.  I think in manga physical strength ranks in the bottom 10% and how much power you 
have inside is what determines if you are stronger.  Maybe physical size helps but it can be overcome.  Still goku is overrated a bit like goku vs galactus or  
goku vs superman prime one million but he is stronger than a lot of people give him credit for.  Personally manga vs manga and comic vs comic is best  
because manga vs comic battles usually don't work.  Too many differences  though some can work if you try hard enough. 

#38 Edited by jfskillz (12 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm said:

" For some odd reason or another DBZ fans seem to go highly overboard with what Goku can do. For instants, sayin' that Goku could fight (let along KILL) Superman or the Hulk.
 
  Are you insane?
 
  Hulk's strength grows the madder he gets, he also has one of the best healin' factors Marvel has to offer (despite Deadpool, and Wolverine). He's fast, has agility, and can literally jump miles.
 
Superman has powers that give him strength that seems to have no limit as well, and even MORE speed than the Hulk (but no-where-near as much as Flash...yes I said it). And he also has heat vision, ice breath (aka minty cool freshness), and X-ray vision (so that he could see what's injured on Goku, and exploit it...or just have fun with wonderwoman).
 
While goku gets overrated by you fans who seem to forget one HUGE factor in the world of DB/Z/GT...and that's that their planets are FAR smaller than our own. The earth that Goku lives on is literally that size of a state (no exaggerations). They have North, South, East, and West CITIES, the mountain area, the desert area, the snowy area, the Rocky area, (and if you just HAVE to add it for more space) Master Roshi's island. All of which covers their planet. Have you ever heard of a state from them?...No, because their planet IS a state.
 
  So jea, it would be easy to make people believe that you're stronger than what you are if you blow-up a state sized planet. But what if you were put up against people who could blow up planets...oh, I don't know...like GOD, and SATAN? Some fans seem to believe that Goku has some kind of Divine powers that make him far more powerful than what he really is.
 
 If Superman or Hulk were to get shot what would happen?...NOTHIN' BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SHOT MILLIONS OF TIMES!! But if goku where to get shot...he'd possibly die (dependin' on where he got shot). He's NOT bullet-proof, why do you think he tries his best to avoid gettin' shot?
 
Hulk kicked asgardian gods asses (yes, even Thor's), while they were all attackin' him at the same time. Superman lifted a [EXPLETIVE DELETED] island...A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND. How do you lift an island?  While Goku struggled to hold up a busload of kids...with Piccolo's help. 
 
Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man when it comes to brute strength. And all of his most powerful moves (especially Spirit bomb) take serious amounts of time to charge-up. And I'm sorry but when dealin' with someone as retard-strong as the Hulk, with no sense of fear. Of with someone as fast as a virgins first busted nut, and can lift A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND...such as Superman. And even if the attacks hit they won't do anything to Hulk of Superman. Both have been shot by guns, cannons, tanks, and even high-powered lasers. And even blown up by grenades, bombs, missiles, and rockets. Hell, Hulk had a grenade explode in his mouth, and did he die?...Hell no.So how do you possibly believe that Goku is able to do anything against them, let along other powerful characters
(Such as DarcStorm...yes I said it).
 
  Hell, Goku's biggest problem is Vegeta, because every transformation that they have both achieved Vegeta was stronger in. And that's Fact.  But no... for some idiotic reason, the fanboy's still believe that Goku has a fightin' chance against any character ever created. Eventhough he was already killed twice, and was almost killed two other times. (when Kid Buu blew-up earth, and when Baby Vegeta shot that revenge death ball at him, but supreme kai saved his ass.) In fact the only reason why Goku has lived for so long is because all he does is jump people. Name 1 powerful person that Goku fought, and beat WITHOUT the help of anyone else?
 
There's just no way Goku is strong enough to beat the majority of other characters created in one-on-one fights, because he's HIGHLY overrated...and that's pure FACT. "


Ok, this is my first post. Firstly I must admit, I do not like superman at all. I have always favored Goku in this fight, and do actually believe he could win. COULD, not would. However, this guy has pointed out some startlingly obvious but unnoticed information. The state sized planet thing, really got to me. I laughed hard, very hard. Then I became unhappy because this is true, and signifies that Goku isn't really as powerful as he says. That was a damn good post man. Had me laughing for a while. 
 
However, there are some wrongnesses. Firstly, Goku has been shot, and the bullets sting to him, so yeah, he tries to avoid getting stung. But they cannot kill him. Raditz caught a bullet with his hand, which tells me that his skin is rather tough, otherwise wouldn't it have gone through him?? 
 
Another thing you said, is Goku jumps everybody. He patiently waited for Kid Buu to fight, and even asked if he dropped something (as a remark meaning "why are you not attacking?"). He does not jump every single person he fights. Not even close.  
 
It is true that Goku struggled with the busload, and with additional help from Piccolo. However, Piccolo, at a much MUCH lower power managed to lift an effing pyramid with his mind. This is one place where dbz fails. They change strength too much I guess you could say. For example, Goku took a  punch from a (lol, state sized planet destroying) bruiser, named Frieza, a long time ago. But, when a rock hits his head he complains about it. That just does not make sense. 
 
You said that both supes and hulk have been shot by guns,bombs, etc. While Goku has not, that I can remember (possibly in db) Piccolo has. So has Cell, whom Goku fought soon after. So has Buu ( different story). 
 
Either way, there were some wrongnesses, but I am still laughing at the "state planets" remark. 
 
I think supes would be best off just starving Goku and showing up to the fight with a needle.
#39 Posted by JackieEstacado (132 posts) - - Show Bio

dude first of all shut up about goku he's flipping awesome. and second of all i like hulk even more than i like goku and i like superman almost as much as i like the hulk but i still know that they stand no chance against goku
#40 Edited by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude Goku isn't as awesome as FANS make him out to be...Don't get me wrong I like the DB/Z/GT version of Goku, but I don't like when fans (like yourself) make him what he isn't.
 
@GOUKI: I say "Jea" instead of "Yea" because when I really talk I say "Jea" (I just like the way it sounds).
 
 
@jfskillz: When I said he jumps people I said STRONG people...he jumped all of the STRONG people.
 
@GrayWolf: Everything you said I agree with (1000's of percents), and is why what I said, I said. When people (DBZ...FANS) try to put Goku against comic book characters, they have to apply the comic book effect. Goku in a comic book world is nowhere near the strength level he is in the manga version (let along the FANS version of him). In manga if you have even the slightest amount of power, you can throw trees, break buildin's, and punch cars (and that's in damn near every manga). But with the comic book effect you either have those powers or you don't. So to put it short the FANS may believe that Goku can beat Hulk or Superman, but if you put them in the DBZ universe, I fully guarantee that Hulk and Superman would beat Goku in one-on-one fights. And even if you bring Goku to the DC, or Marvel universe his powers would be dramatically diminished, so he'd still lose the fight.  
 
@DaMan said:

" @DarcStorm said:

@DaMan said:
" @DarcStorm:
Goku may be overrated by his fans, but it doesn't help the situation when he's being underrated either. Now let me go over some of the things you said in your 1st post.
 
@DarcStorm said:

"While goku gets overrated by you fans who seem to forget one HUGE factor in the world of DB/Z/GT...and that's that their planets are FAR smaller than our own. The earth that Goku lives on is literally that size of a state (no exaggerations). They have North, South, East, and West CITIES, the mountain area, the desert area, the snowy area, the Rocky area, (and if you just HAVE to add it for more space) Master Roshi's island. All of which covers their planet. Have you ever heard of a state from them?...No, because their planet IS a state."

This does not prove the size of Goku's earth. There really isn't anything (that I've seen or heard) that stated how large it was, so how can you just guess to make DBZ characters seem weaker? You have to assume their earth is the same size as ours unless you can prove otherwise. If you have proof, share it with the rest of us.
 
 
 You don't have to assume that a planet that everyone just always seems to be near each other is small...because it doesn't take much effort to be in the next city by just walkin'.
 
 
@DarcStorm said:

"If Superman or Hulk were to get shot what would happen?...NOTHIN' BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SHOT MILLIONS OF TIMES!! But if goku where to get shot...he'd possibly die (dependin' on where he got shot). He's NOT bullet-proof, why do you think he tries his best to avoid gettin' shot?"

Now that's funny. In Dragon Ball Bulma shot Goku and he survived. He has much more durability than you think.
 
 
I said he'd POSSIBLY die didn't I? And that fact that he had to survive it only proves my point even further that he's NOT bullet-proof.
 

 @DarcStorm said:

"Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man when it comes to brute strength. And all of his most powerful moves (especially Spirit bomb) take serious amounts of time to charge-up. And I'm sorry but when dealin' with someone as retard-strong as the Hulk, with no sense of fear. Of with someone as fast as a virgins first busted nut, and can lift A   [EXPLETIVE DELETED] ISLAND...such as Superman. And even if the attacks hit they won't do anything to Hulk of Superman. Both have been shot by guns, cannons, tanks, and even high-powered lasers. And even blown up by grenades, bombs, missiles, and rockets. Hell, Hulk had a grenade explode in his mouth, and did he die?...Hell no.So how do you possibly believe that Goku is able to do anything against them, let along other powerful characters
(Such as DarcStorm...yes I said it)."

Goku isn't as strong as Spider-man? Did you mean Superman?  
Charging blasts won't be a problem because he can IT somewhere else and come back with it fully charged. All the things you listed there aren't impressive when it comes to certain DBZ characters. Cell (before he became perfect Cell) took on the military, but that really isn't impressive either.       

 


 
No, I meant Spider-man, cause I was talkin' about brute strength. When it comes down to it Goku can't out lift Spider-man people seem to keep overrating his strength by sayin' that he can lift "600 tons...or more", when the most he has ever lifted was...the school bus of kids. And he struggled, and needed Piccolo's help. Spider-man can lift a bus by himself. And Cell only took on the military because he could heal. If he couldn't the military would've killed him. Name sothin' impressive that Goku did on his own?...nothin'.
 


 @DarcStorm said:

" Hell, Goku's biggest problem is Vegeta, because every transformation that they have both achieved Vegeta was stronger in. And that's Fact."

 Actually, it was the other way around. Watch the Buu Saga. 
 
 
 No it wasn't. I watched the Buu saga, and in it Vegeta only said that Goku was stronger because He was at ss3 and Vegeta himself was only at ss2. Now what I was talkin' about was that When Vegeta first went supersaiyan, Piccolo himself said that Vegeta might be more powerful than Goku. And then, when Vegeta showed that he was hidin' his true power level it was confirmed that his ss1 was more powerful than Goku's. And in the Buu saga Majin Vegeta fought ss2 Goku evenly, and both of them were usin' their full power in that form. Goku even said that if he used anymore of his power he would've changed into ss3. And since Majin Vegeta was tied with ss2 Goku, then Vegeta gained more power changin' into ss2, doesn't that mean that Vegeta's ss2 is stornger than Goku's?...jea.
 
 
@DarcStorm said:

"Name 1 powerful person that Goku fought, and beat WITHOUT the help of anyone else?"

Seriously? Do I really need to answer this question? If you watched the tournament saga in dragon ball you'd know that Goku won many fights on his own. He beat Pikkon on his own and in GT he solo'd Freiza & Cell too. There's even more opponents than that but that's all I'll give you.
 
 
In Dragonball no-one was strong, the best they had was king Piccolo, and his power level was what...1000. that's not strong.  And Goku never beat Pikkon their fight was a draw, because they both landed on the ceilin'. And in GT Freiza and Cell weren't strong anymore. They were just weak dead people. Againt Vegeta in the saiyan saga what happened? Goku was left a bloody, and beaten mess, while Krillin, Gohan, and Yajorobi (however you spell it) took turns jumpin' Vegeta. (but for some reason people seem to believe that Goku won that fight...don't know how). And in the Freiza saga...Vegeta, Krillin, Gohan, and Piccolo helped Goku jump Freiza. So again where was the fair fightin'? Against Cell Goku did fight him one-on-one, but didn't he give-up?...and isn't a give-up a loss?...jea. Against Majin Vegeta Goku fought him evenly until he got knocked out by Vegeta (and people believe Goku won this fight as well). Even against Buu (Fat, Super, and Kid), he tied with fat, and was only jumpin' the other two (jea...Vegito is jumpin' someone because it's 2 people fightin' someone at the same time). Goku, Vegeta, Fat Buu, and even Hercule took turns fightin' Kid Buu (and that's jumpin'). Jumped Brolly, jumped Bojack, jumped everyone they came across...Goku does nothin' on his own against strong people?
 
 
 @DarcStorm said:

"he's HIGHLY overrated."

And your post shows that he's HIGHLY underrated as well.  "
 
 Your post were only bad attempts at tryin' to justify the over exploited feats that Goku CAN"T accomplish on his own.

1. In other words you don't have proof. Moving on...
 
Just because you don't believe me doesn't mean I didn't prove my point. You're a FAN nothin' more...which is why you don't want to except it.

2. No, he wouldn't possibly die. He's been shot before and it didn't even scratch him. The fact that he survived being shot proves he's not bullet proof, even though he's taken bullets before? WOW. It's obvious you're bias. Superman can survive being punched in the face by Bruce. Does that mean he can't take it? Lol. Your attempts at trying to make Goku look weak are horrible.
 
Since when does gettin' shot 1 time, and servivin' it make you bulletproof? So that's why Fifty cent keeps callin' himself bulletproof. I'm not bias, I'm statin' facts. Superman doesn't have to servive bein' hit in the face by any human, cause he doesn't feel it (unless there's some colorful glowin' rock around). Hell, you could beat up superman in his sleep, and he wouldn't wake up. And I'm not tryin' to make Goku look weak, it's just that with all of the truth that I've said you seem to feel that he's weak now...WHY?
 
3. Another horrible attempt. Spiderman is a 25 tonner. Goku lifted over 40 tons on each limb. Not only that but his power increases with each SS transformation. He's way stronger than you think, and it doesn't take a genius to realize that Goku barely being to lift a bus is PIS. Either that, or the episode was non-canon because I haven't seen it before. Goku has many impressive feats that I refuse to share with a typical DBZ hater. Cell didn't take any damage -period-, but you seem like someone who has no knowledge of DBZ so it's understandable why you think the way you do.
 
And you call yourself a FAN? When has Goku ever lifted over 40 ton's? No-no, when has Goku ever lifted over 40 tons with each limb? You must be a FAN if you didn't see him strugglin' with the school bus full of kids. And when have I ever said that I hated DBZ? I know I said that I hate what FANS make DBZ out to be, but I never said that I hated DBZ. Cell always took damage...he's just an amazing healer. If he didn't take damage why was he scared that piccolo was stronger than him when he was imperfect? Why was he scared that Vegeta was goin' to kill him (and begged to be allowed to become perfect)? Why was he so scared of ss2 Gohan that he was goin' to blow himself, and the planet up? And if he didn't take any damage, why is he dead? And before you can say it Cell was scared because these people were able to kill him (i.e. damage him beyond repair). And I'm suppose to be someone who has no knowledge of DBZ.

4. Yes it was and the Buu saga proved that. Maybe if you weren't bias you'd pay attention to what actually happens in DBZ. Goku beat Vegeta in their 1st encounter. Goku defeated Frieza, but Vegeta couldn't. Goku stalemated Cell, but Vegeta didn't even come close. Goku was able to reach SS3 by the end of DBZ, but Vegeta couldn't and he even admitted that Goku was the better fighter. So with that said, Vegeta's word > Your word. Majin Vegeta was not stronger than SS2 Goku so you're not going to get anywhere by comparing them. In fact the only way Vegeta could fight Goku equally was by allowing Babidi to take control of him. Majin Vegeta was at SS2 when he was fighting Goku. Pay attention when you watch the show man.
 
Goku DIDN'T beat Vegeta in their first encounter (this is what I mean when I say that you FANS add stuff on). Goku was already broken bodied when Krillen, and Gohan SAVED him by STOPPIN' VEGETA from KILLIN' GOKU. After Krillen and Gohan stopped Vegeta from killin' Goku, did Goku join in on that fight again?...NO because VEGETA beat him. Goku defeated Freiza only AFTER everyone else jumped him, and how many attempts did Goku take to defeat Freiza?...and he was only able to do it AFTER transformin'. Goku only stalemated Cell because Cell wasn't fightin' him at full strength Cell even said that. Goku stopped fightin' him because he knew he couldn't defeat him. Vegeta didn't come close because it was super perfect cell that he fought (which wasn't even close to the same Cell that Goku fought). How do you know that Vegeta didn't achieve ss3 by the end of Z, did he say he didn't? And Vegeta only said that Goku was the better fighter because of the reasons why they fought. And I never said that Majin Vegeta was stronger than ss2 Goku. I said that they were evenly match because they themselves said that fact. Majin Vegeta was not (I repeat, WAS NOT) ss2 the creators of Majin Vegeta said that he was only an upgraded version of Vegeta's ss level...meanin' he was NOT ss2 yet. Vegeta became ss2 AFTER he blew himself up, and when he came back to earth to fight super Buu he was stronger than when he died because he achieved ss2 PROVIN' that Vegeta's ss2 is stronger than Goku's You REALLY need to do some studyin' when tryin' to talk facts about somethin' you have no knowledge about.

5. At the time some of the DB characters were powerful opponents for Goku and he defeated them. They're fight was NOT a draw you liar. How can you land on a ceiling, LOL? They were both fighting outside in a ring. Goku blasted Pikkon with a kamehameha which sent him out of the ring. Cell and Frieza were still powerful, but Goku was even more powerful. Goku defeated Vegeta already. Goku defeated Frieza's final form on his own. Goku could've beat Cell but he helped him recover instead. Vegeta needed a power up by Babidi to even get on Goku's level in the 1st place. Not only that, but he had to cheat in order to KO him. So you want one character to steal the limelight? Other characters need to be shown off to show that they're powerful as well. Stop trying to figure a way around what Goku does and accept it. Look at how many other characters need help to fight someone. Why don't you make a rant about them? Wait, I know the answer. It's because you're bias against Goku. Superman cannot defeat an opponent who is superior to him in every way without help either. If he could then it would be PIS. This is not something that is hard to understand.
 
 
 See what I mean when I say that you need to study. Grand Kai said that they were both disqualified when they landed on the ceilin' of the arena "because the floor is like the ceiling" (his words, not mine), so the rest of that fight was null-n-void because they were BOTH already disqualified. Freiza and Cell weren't able to become anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta, nor Goku's non-transformed state, because their powers only slightly increased since they died, while Goku and Vegeta became several times stronger than when they fought them the first time. Again...GOKU HAS NEVER DEFEATED VEGETA! They had 2 fights in the first one look at what I said earlier, and in the second one (Majin), Vegeta knocked him out. No I'll give you that the second one was a tie (because there was NO winner), but in the first one Goku was saved. Vegeta didn't use babadi for a power-up, he used him so that he could return to the mind-set that he use to have (how many times does Vegeta himself have to say that for you FANS to understand?), you know, cold and ruthless? Why don't you stop tryin' to find a way around the fact that Goku can do nothing on his own against strong people, and accept that. Why is it that the only thing you keep sayin' is that "I'm bias against Goku", eventhough YOU'RE bias FOR Goku? I never said that Superman could defeat a stronger opponent than himself. It's just there was no reason for me to say that he couldn't because this is about how HIGHLY OVERRATED Goku is...not Superman.
 
 
6. This thread is a fail.

"
 
Your logic fails.
@Matezoide said:

" Goku owned Nappa Goku was beating Vegeta,who had to cheat in order to winGoku owned the Ginyu ForceGoku defeated Freeza one-on-one,the others guys were just holding him Goku could beat Cell,the reason he didnt is because he wanted Gohan to defeat himGoku and Vegeta were envely matched,but Goku never used SSJ3 and the reason he was knocked out is because he canceled his transformation and was hit by behind,had him used all his power,Vegeta would have been defeatedGoku could beat Majin Buu,he didnt because he wanted the kids to take him down,but the fight was evenly matched "


Why do people keep sayin' that Vegeta cheated to beat Goku in the saiyan saga? All Vegeta did was use his transformation to best Goku. If transformin' is cheatin' then Goku (ant the transformers) cheated ALOT. Kaio-ken is STILL a transformation ain't it? And Goku went kaio-ken 1,2,3, and 4 in their fight, so he cheated even more than Vegeta did. Goku beat only two of the Ginyu Force (Recoome, and Burter) that is all. Vegeta beat the rest. Once again...Goku only defeated Freiza AFTER everyone else jumped him, and AFTER he reached ss1. Goku himself (once again) said that he couldn't defeat Cell (because he COULDN'T) he just knew about Gohans hidden potential and took a shot in the dark. The thing about Majin Vegeta, I agree with, but the buu thing...we were talkin' about Super, and Kid Buu...not Majin Buu. There's a HUGE difference. And you know sayin' the word "OWNED" (or even "PWNED" if you wanted too), only discredits all of which you would ever say, because it makes you sound ignorant, and unable to express situations in a proof-full way (kinda like a FAN).
 
And trust me there is a difference between fan, fan-boy, and FAN.
#41 Posted by jfskillz (12 posts) - - Show Bio

@ Darkstorm- He did not jump Frieza. Matter of fact, Frieza tried to blast him first. 
 
 
My honest opinion really, is that for the superman on Tv, or in the death of superman comics, the superman I know, would get stomped by Goku. He would get kicked in the back of the medulla rather fast, and stumble. Then he would fight, and slowly understand Goku's style, and start to bust him up a little. Then Goku hits SS1, and yeah... The superman that fought doomsday, would get pwned. There is no Superman 2, or 3. 
 
As for strength, Goku lifted 40 tons, in otherworld. He struggled until he went SS then it was too easy. He also pushed himself out of a mountain (or two, I can't remember) in the Kid Buu fight. Superman has energy from the Sun, so yeah he is tough. But Goku is able to get energy from anywhere in the universe. I believe that pretty much outclasses one measly Sun.  
 
I don't know if this beats punching someone back through time, but I do recall both Gotenks and Buu able to yell/scream and  rip a hole through existence. So maybe they can yell him back in time.. lol.
#42 Posted by Matezoide2 (15994 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm: 
Vegeta cheated because he needed someone else to upgrade his powers,the power he displaied when he fought Goku wasnt his`s,they came from Babidi,the Kaioken was a power Goku LEARNED to use,there wasnt anyone else making him stronger
AND,Vegeta had to wait to Goku stop fighting and cheap shot him from behind in order to knock him out,thats cheating
so? what if Goku didnt killed the entire Ginyu force? he owned 4 of then,it is just that 2 escaped,he still kicked their buttys
whats the problem of fighting Freeza as a super sayian? all he did was unlock his OWN powers to fight him,everybody else was preety useless,Piccolo,Vegeta,Gohan,Krillin,they did NOTHING against Freeza when he used his last form,the only use they had was Krillin`s death that made Goku angry enough to become a Super Sayian,he won by using his own power alone
Goku could have beaten Cell,they were preety much equals,he only wanted Gohan to get rid of him
Goku SSJ3 was going toe-to-toe with Kid Buu,he isnt that powerfull,his healing is what makes him dangerous,Buu was the only opponent that was stronger than Goku,you are clearly biased against Goku
#43 Posted by GrayWolf (206 posts) - - Show Bio
@DarcStorm: 
Glad you agreed with everything I said.  By looking at what you stated for my post I have to agree with the comic book rule being applied to these battles.  But, I think personally if you are going to do a manga vs comic battle you should state which rules apply.  If you want manga rules then say it and vice versa just to help clear things up.  The only thing I disagree with is that if you put superman and the hulk in goku's universe with manga rules that they would win.  The more superman stuff I read the less and less likely I feel that he could even take on super saiyan goku.  Forget the other levels.  But that is me putting him in manga rules.  In comic rules I'd have a hell of a time backing up goku because no matter what anyone says how much you can lift is like a be all end all rule.  Since we can only speculate what goku's strength is at ssj3 you can't make an argument.  As for the hulk, in dbz he is everything you don't want to be in the dbz universe.  All size and brute strength no speed or technique.  He would not last 5 minutes in that universe.  In the comic book universe he does a lot better but I still think a kienzan disk from ssj3 goku would put him down.  He is the one character I would really like them to stop putting against dbz guys because overall he matches up so poorly but hulk fans just keep putting him in there.  That is just my opinion.
#44 Posted by jfskillz (12 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't see Hulk coming out on top in a fight with...hmm lets see... Broly? 
 
The Pre Crisis (overpowered to ridiculousness) superman, yeah he can probably take Goku. I personally don't believe it, but I have heard hes practically indestructible. But Hulk? Come on now. Yeah he gets angry and gets strong. Well, Goku gets angry and turns into a Super Saiyan. So wtf? I have even seen people compare Batman to Goku, which just ... pisses me off. Oh, and spiderman is NOT stronger than Goku.
#45 Posted by GrayWolf (206 posts) - - Show Bio

Ha.  Just gave that specifying whether or not it's manga rules or comic rules thing a try.  Of course it did not matter since they were both street levelers anyway.  Those may be the only manga vs comic battles that work.
#46 Posted by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
@GrayWolf: In the manga vs comic book topic if you bring a person like Superman or Hulk to the DBZ universe the manga effect would be to add those types of powers to them. Because in the manga universe there is a certain type of power that is given to those who are the fighters. Like in DBZ, "Kai" (or "Ki") is what everyone has. So if Superman or the Hulk were to go to there universe to fight Goku, you would have to apply the manga effect (i.e. give them basic "Kai" manipulation). But with the comic book effect it's different...the powers you have are yours. If there happens to be someone with those same powers then it comes down to mind-set, and who could use them better.
 
Ps: Hulk isn't as slow as people constantly put him out to be. He's agile, fast, has a healin' factor, can jump incredible amounts, and...of course his strength is far from normal super-strength. And he's actually smarter than what a lot of people think.
#47 Posted by GrayWolf (206 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarcStorm:  I know hulk is not as slow as I just made him out to be.  He has some speed in that he can run a lot faster than most people.  In fact, I think it is a few hundred miles an hour depending on his form.  However, he is still not as fast as even Recoome who to Goku looked like he was standing still.  When perfect cell arrived it really showed that in the dbz universe you have to have both speed and power.  What really works is when they are equal.  Superman would do a lot better than hulk in manga because he has everything spread out equally.  They would both have large amounts of ki, but good ki manipulation is something you have to train at.  The healing factor helps a bit, but I think he would just take so many heavy hits from blasts it would be like torture.  He'd get angrier and angrier and stronger and stronger but it won't do any good since he would never be able to hit them.  In the comic world even if you are clearly inferior in the speed department you could still hit them either by getting lucky or outsmarting an opponent who doesn't have your fighting skills.  In manga, especially dbz, if you are totally outclassed in speed you won't be able to touch them.  Like ever.  This is especially true for hulk against goku who doesn't just outclass him in speed but also has him beat in fighting skills by a ridiculous margin.  In comics the hulk gets lucky a lot with speedsters, in the dbz universe there is no real luck.  I'm going to stop now because I may have missed a point you were trying make.  I don't know since I read it a bunch of times.  If I did come out and say it.  I like so far that this is one of those rare CIVIL dbz conversations.
#48 Posted by jfskillz (12 posts) - - Show Bio
@GrayWolf said:
"
@DarcStorm:  I know hulk is not as slow as I just made him out to be.  He has some speed in that he can run a lot faster than most people.  In fact, I think it is a few hundred miles an hour depending on his form.  However, he is still not as fast as even Recoome who to Goku looked like he was standing still.  When perfect cell arrived it really showed that in the dbz universe you have to have both speed and power.  What really works is when they are equal.  Superman would do a lot better than hulk in manga because he has everything spread out equally.  They would both have large amounts of ki, but good ki manipulation is something you have to train at.  The healing factor helps a bit, but I think he would just take so many heavy hits from blasts it would be like torture.  He'd get angrier and angrier and stronger and stronger but it won't do any good since he would never be able to hit them.  In the comic world even if you are clearly inferior in the speed department you could still hit them either by getting lucky or outsmarting an opponent who doesn't have your fighting skills.  In manga, especially dbz, if you are totally outclassed in speed you won't be able to touch them.  Like ever.  This is especially true for hulk against goku who doesn't just outclass him in speed but also has him beat in fighting skills by a ridiculous margin.  In comics the hulk gets lucky a lot with speedsters, in the dbz universe there is no real luck.  I'm going to stop now because I may have missed a point you were trying make.  I don't know since I read it a bunch of times.  If I did come out and say it.  I like so far that this is one of those rare CIVIL dbz conversations. "

That post was awesome.
#49 Posted by DeathDefyingDevil (722 posts) - - Show Bio
@JackieEstacado:
dude don't tell people to shut up but i agree with you that goku can beat hulk and superman even though i like hulk way more than i like goku and i do like superman but no as much as i like goku or the hulk but goku could definetly beat both of them
#50 Edited by DarcStorm (244 posts) - - Show Bio
@GrayWolf: No, you got the right idea of what I meant. Althought I do believe that if the manga effect was applied, Superman vs Goku wise...Goku would lose every time. Because Superman is a lot smarter than Goku, and he would easily be able to figure out a way to use the (basic) Kai control he has with his other powers like speed, strength, and durability...but other powers would be taken in the process like his ice breath, and visions (because they're not Kai based attacks). But even with the lose of some powers, he would gain limitless powers from the Kai through training (like Goku did). So jea, if it came down to it I believe Superman would win because of his superior intelligence.
 
But what you said about the Hulk can actually be used in the reverse way. You see, in manga the fighters tend to wait around for their opponents to fully charge up, and fully charge their attacks up. But in comic book it's always the savage who win the fights, because savage fighters don't wait around they go for the kill. Also in manga they try too hard to test what their opponents can do BEFORE they try their best on them. And those are fatal flaws when fightin' someone as savage as the Hulk is. Tryin' to test his strength is the biggest problem anyone could make. To put shortly it would be an amazin' fight between Goku (ss anything), and the Hulk in the DBZ universe. But if they were to be in the comic book universe... it would always be Hulk who beats Goku (In comic book "Transformations" are limited to a persons abilities...i.e....only slightly increasin' the overall abilities of the fighter). 
 
And I too enjoy a civil discussion.

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