Is GOKU more original than SUPERMAN

#1 Edited by Hoboseid (1022 posts) - - Show Bio


Superman in Western Comics is kind of seen as the poster boy of heroism and the poster boy for originality, he was the first who bounced bullets of his chest and saved the girl....or so we are lead to believe. But if you have any knowledge on comic lore you'll know Superman himself is not very original either. His Krypton is bascially a copy of the Moses in a basket story, and his strength and invulnerability is stolen from the Man of Bronze

 

 

Anime is another story, I still think we have not entered an anime aware age and general stereotype is that all  anime  suddenly has this "big-hair" , "everyone shooting fireballs from hands", " naive, indecisive, stupid and incredibly nice boy" or sterotypes within stereotypes like "black ghetto rapper    " and other ethnic casting or having a round eyed innocent school girl get all magical, powerful and crazy.....but not all anime is like this, not all of them are isolated in their own stereotyped verse. Never have I seen the criticism more on the net then when I read people from the West ripping into Japanese animation just because they tried to animate a Western comic book hero. 

 

Japanese animation can be orginal, Superman himself should not be seen as an icon of originality and even though Goku himself is not so original, his creator might have borrowed from a hero like Superman or stole a few pages from China's Ming Dynasty Literature, like Journey into the West or Adventures of the Monkey God.    

I still think Goku is a lot more original than Superman

#2 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree, but to each his own.

#3 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku is not more original that Superman, he's simply a Japanese adaptation of Superman.

And Superman didn't steal the story of Moses, he's analogous to the various saviors of Western Religion. Young baby of great power, falls from the sky, only to be raised by humble farmers and becomes a man for the world to revere. That's deliberate, it's not done as a rip off.

I love anime, and am a huge supporter of it, Neon Genesis Evangelion is the greatest accomplishment of humankind as far as I'm concerned.

Dragon Ball is not. It's stupid, it's simple, but it's fun. And that's all. It's not high art, it's barely art. It's just fun.

And Goku is not in the same league as Superman.

#4 Posted by SC (12508 posts) - - Show Bio

With Superman and Goku its more about execution than concept. Neither are that original conceptually, but execution and subsequent popularity, (and enough relative novelty so that attain popularity) 


Originality often comes at the expense of accessibility anyway, and with accessibility comes popularity. You can criticize a lot of popular things conceptually, but also over generalize and oversimplify the very unique, and very original aspects that these characters, genres, mediums have. Each new writer or story has that potential. You seem to take a stance in order to defend Anime? Thats cool, but I am not sure you need to critique Superman to do so, by oversimplifying his concept, then switching the focus (less specifics, focus on aspects in anime that are more original etc) in order to defend anime?!?!? I am lost in the forest. 
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#5 Posted by Iron_Turtle (579 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
"he's simply a Japanese adaptation of Superman. "
Yeah.. I'm going to have to strongly disagree with this.
He is however an adaptation of Son Goku the mythological monkey king of the same name. The whole Dragonball series was a (very) loose adaptation of "Journey To The West."

As for Goku being more original than Superman. Probably not.

Besides when you speak of the superhero archetype, there is no such thing as originality. People have been telling stories of mythical characters with otherworldy abilities since the dawn of time.
#6 Posted by SC (12508 posts) - - Show Bio
@Iron_Turtle:  Hasn't his creator openly referenced Goku owes a lot to Superman? Thats what I have heard and my understanding and likely the reasoning to the person you quoted.
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#7 Posted by SC (12508 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, unless, I guess you mean, that he was adapted more specifically from Sun Wukong, and not Superman, and he just to a lesser degree borrows much from Superman. Then I get what you mean. 

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#8 Posted by Iron_Turtle (579 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: Yeah. They didn't even bother changing his name. Son Goku is Japanese for Sun Wukong.
#9 Posted by MrDirector786 (43371 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku's character I think is based off of Sun Wukong but his origin is based off of Superman's.

#10 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hoboseid said:

"His Krypton is bascially a copy of the Moses in a basket story, and his strength and invulnerability is stolen from the Man of Bronze"

I seem to recall Moses' planet still being around and all when he grew up... In other words, you have no idea what you're talking about. Both the child abandoned and adopted by unlikely parents and super strength are tropes, devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations. They've appeared hundreds of times in fiction across history. You can't rip off tropes, because tropes by definition are incredibly repetitive and only minute parts of the entire story to be considered rip offs. It's how they blend together that determines if the story is original or not, and Superman, as the first genuine super hero, is original.

Get off your haterade for Superman and accept it already.
#11 Posted by juslas500 (8 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt: Goku is never a japanese version of Superman, they only have a similarity in their origins but they are never the same...Goku is by far different from Superman...both of them may have superstrength,durability,speed etc. but to tell u the truth Goku is by far beyond superman's league, goku posses some things that superman doesn't have..and goku can do almost everything superman can...and the difference between them is before goku became a very strong, he had a lot of training, and he fought since he was a kid, superman discovered his powers in his teens and already knew how to use them without any explanation...and what's the biggest difference of them is that as the years past goku became more and more stronger in which left superman behind....and if ur saying that  Dragon Ball is is stupid, simple, etc. what can you call superman? superman is even more simple only the save the day fight against villains, the same power he posses...no change at all.....so think before u post something....
#12 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@juslas500: I did think, my response contains actual merit, rather than the rantings of someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.
#13 Posted by Primmaster64 (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku life based on, in order: Journey to the West, Japanese mythology, Superman , refridgerators, Terminator, and bubblegum.
 
 
Sorry for bumping...I just had to put it out there. While Goku from Dragonball is based on Journey to the West, it is also obvious that Goku from DBZ is based on Superman. which makes sense, because Akira is a big Superman fan.

#14 Posted by Narok24 (43 posts) - - Show Bio

Dragonball was originally and INTENTIONALLY almost completely derived from Journey to the West. Now when you add in the alien origins that came about later and all the other random things that popped up, you could say Dragonball was a little more original. But when comparing origins, at the high risk of being killed over my opinion, I think Superman has to take it.

PS: I love both DBZ and Superman, and am NOT picking favorites.

#15 Posted by baron2011 (1151 posts) - - Show Bio

goku>superman in every aspect

PS:I don't want to start a war

#16 Posted by majestic99 (8638 posts) - - Show Bio

@baron2011 said:

goku>superman in every aspect

PS:I don't want to start a war

This!

#17 Posted by SamRevlon (134 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hoboseid said:

Superman in Western Comics is kind of seen as the poster boy of heroism and the poster boy for originality, he was the first who bounced bullets of his chest and saved the girl....or so we are lead to believe. But if you have any knowledge on comic lore you'll know Superman himself is not very original either. His Krypton is bascially a copy of the Moses in a basket story, and his strength and invulnerability is stolen from the Man of Bronze

Every artist who ever creates something is usually copying off a former idea and making it their own. It’s the ability to bring that creation to life to the readers and viewers, to make a connection that makes the creation an icon or legend.

Anime is another story, I still think we have not entered an anime aware age and general stereotype is that all anime suddenly has this "big-hair" , "everyone shooting fireballs from hands", " naive, indecisive, stupid and incredibly nice boy" or sterotypes within stereotypes like "black ghetto rapper " and other ethnic casting or having a round eyed innocent school girl get all magical, powerful and crazy.....but not all anime is like this, not all of them are isolated in their own stereotyped verse. Never have I seen the criticism more on the net then when I read people from the West ripping into Japanese animation just because they tried to animate a Western comic book hero.

Ah anime… I think you were dishing out details of the mainstream ones in which case they all are still like that. Minus the big hair as its incredibly scene and feminine now. You will always be faced with such criticism though – hate to break it to you; it’s called a difference in opinion.

Japanese animation can be original, Superman himself should not be seen as an icon of originality and even though Goku himself is not so original, his creator might have borrowed from a hero like Superman or stole a few pages from China's Ming Dynasty Literature, like Journey into the West or Adventures of the Monkey God.

Sure, I agree, Japanese animation can be original. People are going to see who they want to as an icon or not - sometimes on boards like these verse others the majority of the population can rule it so, but that doesn't mean that in your views this has to change.

I still think Goku is a lot more original than Superman

#18 Posted by LaserLambert (635 posts) - - Show Bio

Son Goku is based on the character Son Goku, AKA Sun Wukong AKA The Monkey King, and the first story arc of Dragon Ball is directly inspired by the Journey to the west story with other characters being based on other characters from it. so right there the originality argument falls flat to me. it was an original interpretation of the character to be sure but that's kind of silly.

when Toriyama added the backstory that Goku was from another world, he borrowed a lot of elements of Superman either directly or indirectly.

#19 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hoboseid:

Goku is from sun wukong which is from hanuman

Superman is from Phillip Wylie's Gladiator

#20 Posted by Shotgun (900 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku is the love child of aliens and the Monkey King of Journey to the West. Or just the brain child of a mangaka who was high and read too much sci-fi and ancient chinese folk tales at the same time.

#21 Posted by steelhound56 (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

@juslas500: no.... just no...

Superman has shown abilities on a scale Goku has never even dreamed of...

Especially SA Supes

#22 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

Sometimes I wonder if you took the time to figure out the character. Goku is based on the character Monkey King from Journey to the West. They said it in every time they roll the credits. He is not that original the power up is nice touch the first time but than it got water down.

#23 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

People are comparing upgraded Goku to normal Supes. What the hell? Thoughtbot and SMPOM would beat the living sh*t out of SSJ3 and SSJ4... OK that's not the topic... Derp me.. Hehe!

Well I just don't see any depth in character development in DB/DBZ/DBGT so I guess I'll have to say Goku ain't more original. He's a bit too linear if you ask me. Both are boyscouts but one's a retard and the other's a super genius. I'd go with the one with the brains. Goku is more humorous though... I'll give him that.

#24 Edited by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

superman character was inspired by Samson and Jesus back in the days. with so many years passing it can get stale. Dragonball is bit more fresher but although it is like throw back to Silver age comics and 80s cartoons combine. Two things we missed when DC was trying to be dark, mean spirited, obsessing over batman, overly complicated and other things that made us miss what they were before.

#25 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Iron_Turtle said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:
"he's simply a Japanese adaptation of Superman. "
Yeah.. I'm going to have to strongly disagree with this.
He is however an adaptation of Son Goku the mythological monkey king of the same name. The whole Dragonball series was a (very) loose adaptation of "Journey To The West."
As for Goku being more original than Superman. Probably not.
Besides when you speak of the superhero archetype, there is no such thing as originality. People have been telling stories of mythical characters with otherworldy abilities since the dawn of time.

Goku as a character might be based off the Monkey King from the story "Journey to the West" but he's not that character. Superman was created decades before Goku, I don't see how one can believe that he's less original than Goku.

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#26 Posted by SilverGalford (3260 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman was created in in 1932 , Goku was created in 1984. do the math lol!

#27 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

Both parts of Goku's story are derived from other sources. DB was taken directly from Journey to the West and the Saiyan saga is exactly like the story of Clark Kent. (I love both characters but I'm just saying Goku couldn't be more original than Superman.)

#28 Posted by Sylvain (1640 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is based on hercules and Religion

Son Goku is based on Superman and Sun Wukong

#29 Edited by 9dragons (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@sylvain:

Both characters are based on older form of heroes or other heroes. Did you know superman is not the first superhero to fly? It his trademark but he is far from the first fictional character to fly. Same can be said about Goku not being the first hero born out of space. These concepts existed before both characters.

#30 Edited by Sylvain (1640 posts) - - Show Bio

@9dragons said:

@sylvain:

Both characters are based on older form of heroes or other heroes. Did you know superman is not the first superhero to fly? It his trademark but he is far from the first fictional character to fly. Same can be said about Goku not being the first hero born out of space. These concepts existed before both characters.

So what?The first to fly was namor evan Captain Marvel was flying before Superman(Look at the villain of Captain marvel Lex Luthor was kinda based on him but not 100%) but my point was not exactly here.Their basic histories are the same but did the creator of Goku knew all the things we just said(Namor,Captain Marvel,etc)?You have no proof.Dont try and find an excuse to excuse Goku.Yeah superman isnt the most original there is but Goku is not original too.Some of Goku ennemies looks like the ones of Superman.Oh i've heard the creator of Goku before making Goku was copying Star Wars/Star Trek(Idk if my source worth anything so proove me wrong if im wrong and i will apologize).

#31 Edited by 9dragons (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@sylvain: I never made an excuse for Goku. I just stated the facts. Fact is both characters are not 100% original so the topic is not that important because the aspects of both characters can be traced back to other characters of fiction much older then both.

Superman and Goku:

1)Not the first character to come from space, superman and goku

2)Not the first character to fly, superman and goku

3)Not the first characters to have costume, superman.

Major Difference between the two.

1)Superman is a superhero, Goku is not a superhero his son, Gohan is a funky superhero.

2)Superman lead by example as model to the public, Goku does not. Goku is not a leader, not a role model. He's just doing a duty as a inhabit of earth, taking care of your home and respecting life itself are simple values taught by his grandpa. This is a huge difference between to two.

3)Superman has a secret identity, Goku does not need one because of 2.

4)The Earth of the two characters are different and the story focuses are different. The daily activities of the characters are night and day. Makes some people wonder why are the two being compared.

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