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    Galactus

    Character » Galactus appears in 1750 issues.

    Galactus is the infamous "Devourer of Worlds" in the Marvel Universe. His powers are nearly omnipotent. He has appointed several entities as his Heralds, imbuing them with the Power Cosmic. He uses energy from the core of planets and universal sources to sustain himself.

    Would you consider Galactus as a villlian?

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    box turtle

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    #51  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    "@box turtle said: 

    "Murder is never ok, especially when you can hear full well the people you are killing and know they could live happy, capable, full, lives."
     
    So a pig would be happier on your plate than in a field? And you may say that a pigs life is pointless compared to a humans. But guess what. A humans life is pointless compared to what Galactus's would be. You may also say that pigs are unable to communicate with us. Spend some time in an abattoir, there can be no confusion over their feelings on the matter once the killing starts.
     

    First off, bugs don't feel complex emotions like love.  Secondly, why does the world end with Galactus's death. "

    Bugs no. Animals yes :     http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4595810.ece 
                                                   
                                                   http://researchnews.wsu.edu/health/141.html 
     
                                                  http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/8-10-2003-44071.asp 
     
     
    The world ends with Galactus's death because that's how it's written. It's like superman flying, it doesn't have to be logical, it's fiction.
     

    @box turtle

    said:

    " @joshmightbe said:

    " @box turtle: to galactus all our emotions are considered pointless any way so thats not really a valid argument people have no more or less right to exist than any other life form. "

    Yes they do. "
    Why is that? As shown we're not the only species with emotions (even complex ones) and when looking at the whole picture there are much more useful species:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copepod    http://www.drudge.com/archive/90802/bees-mans-future-dying    http://www.naturegrid.org.uk/biodiversity/plants/crypalga.html  Fact is if humans were wiped out tomorrow a new dominant species would take our place soon enough. Emotions are not a rare occurrence and do not make us "special". Especially when put into the context of a fictitious universe with countless billions of "Civilized" worlds. Not that I like the idea of being eaten, I just don't delude myself that I have an unwritten right to step out of the hunter/prey scenario. Survival of the fittest and all that. "

    The animals that have complex emotions aren't eaten.  And survival of  the fittest makes no sense because the guiding morals are superior.
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    @box turtle said:

    "The animals that have complex emotions aren't eaten.  And survival of  the fittest makes no sense because the guiding morals are superior. "

     http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/feb/24/highereducation.biologicalscience
     
    You'd give yourself a lot more credibility if you actually checked the facts behind your statements before you made them. And go into a cage with a hungry lion to find out how superior your guiding morals actually are.
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    #53  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    " @box turtle said:

    "The animals that have complex emotions aren't eaten.  And survival of  the fittest makes no sense because the guiding morals are superior. "

     http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/feb/24/highereducation.biologicalscience   You'd give yourself a lot more credibility if you actually checked the facts behind your statements before you made them. And go into a cage with a hungry lion to find out how superior your guiding morals actually are. "

    First off, I'd bring up a story about a man named Daniel, but you wouldn't believe it, so I won't.  Instead I'll mention that unlike many, many other animals, humans rarely have to go up against lions because there superior minds have found ways to fence off those animals. 
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    @box turtle said:

    " @Do I have to give a name? said:

    " @box turtle said:

    survival of  the fittest makes no sense because the guiding morals are superior."

    First off, I'd bring up a story about a man named Daniel, but you wouldn't believe it, so I won't.  Instead I'll mention that unlike many, many other animals, humans rarely have to go up against lions because there superior minds have found ways to fence off those animals.  "
    Considering we're talking morals I could bring up Judges 19:23-29, but I won't....
     
     The fact  of the matter is we didn't get to the position that we can dominate wildlife through morals, we reached it through survival of the fittest. Morals are an ever changing thing. You and I both live in a country/countries that are in the comfortable position where they can presume to dictate to others what is right or wrong. Despite being built on centuries of war, slavery, rape and oppression. 
     
    Even before modern history our ancestors only survived through working together to fight off other predators I say it again Survival of the fittest. Morals are merely a derision of the altruism required for and enhanced by those experiences.
     
    That's the whole problem. You're looking at this from a moral point of view, which is a HIGHLY subjective thing. This is purely survival of the fittest. If the guy doesn't eat he dies. and in that reality (Marvel), he's way more important than us.
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    #55  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    "@box turtle said:

    " @Do I have to give a name? said:

    " @box turtle said:

    survival of  the fittest makes no sense because the guiding morals are superior."

    First off, I'd bring up a story about a man named Daniel, but you wouldn't believe it, so I won't.  Instead I'll mention that unlike many, many other animals, humans rarely have to go up against lions because there superior minds have found ways to fence off those animals.  "
    Considering we're talking morals I could bring up Judges 19:23-29, but I won't....  The fact  of the matter is we didn't get to the position that we can dominate wildlife through morals, we reached it through survival of the fittest. Morals are an ever changing thing. You and I both live in a country/countries that are in the comfortable position where they can presume to dictate to others what is right or wrong. Despite being built on centuries of war, slavery, rape and oppression.   Even before modern history our ancestors only survived through working together to fight off other predators I say it again Survival of the fittest. Morals are merely a derision of the altruism required for and enhanced by those experiences.  That's the whole problem. You're looking at this from a moral point of view, which is a HIGHLY subjective thing. This is purely survival of the fittest. If the guy doesn't eat he dies. and in that reality (Marvel), he's way more important than us. "

    First off, I see no connection between some centuries old war described in the bible and the topic at hand.  But, seeing as you mentioned the Bible as a possible arguement, I will bring up the story of Daniel.  He stood steadfast to his morals, and was throne to the lions because of it.  He survived because God calmed the lions. 
    Also to be noted, is the United States isn't built on rape.  Give me one example of a rape that resulted in our country.  Oh, that's right, it never happened. 
    And, anyway, if morals are so fake, why do people find hope and peace and follow firmly and enjoy these morals.  I mean, you say there is no such thing as a place with no inner value and good, but thats just because you cannot imagine what a place would be like.  The world is not chaos, you have no idea what chaos is.  
    Galactus is a villain.  
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    #56  Edited By box turtle
    @joshmightbe said:
    "galactus is beyond good and evil "

    No one is above good and evil.
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    @box turtle said:

    " @Do I have to give a name? said:


    First off, I see no connection between some centuries old war described in the bible and the topic at hand.  But, seeing as you mentioned the Bible as a possible arguement, I will bring up the story of Daniel.  He stood steadfast to his morals, and was throne to the lions because of it.  He survived because God calmed the lions.
     
    What do you mean? I didn't mention the bible (rolls eyes) But since you bought it up, I will bring up Judges 19:23-30. It's about a man who had a guest in his house, a gang of men turned up wanting to rape the guest. The man saw that this would be an affront, so he instead (After offering his virgin daughter) gave them his concubine to gang rape. They used and abused her all night. In the morning the man took the concubine. As she was now impure he cut her into 12 pieces and sent her to the different parts of Israel. All who witnessed it said they didn't. Another admirably moral story, bought to you, in part by a loving god...

     
     "Also to be noted, is the United States isn't built on rape.  Give me one example of a rape that resulted in our country.  Oh, that's right, it never happened."
     
    Again you make a statement without checking the facts. At first I found it amusing, now I just think you need to read more. Anyway, here: One example.   Now I know you don't actually read these things, so I'll copy and paste you a short section (btw this, is the first result on google. there are more) 

    "Both Native American and African American slaves experienced being raped by their slave holders. Even the famous Pocahontas was raped at a young age by deputy governor Thomas Dale. Pocahontas told her older sister that she was raped by Thomas Dale. Rape was one of the worst crimes in a Native American's eyes and resulted in severe punishment even death. 
     
     I'm glad to see at least that you didn't try to deny the war, slavery and oppression parts.


    "And, anyway, if morals are so fake, why do people find hope and peace and follow firmly and enjoy these morals." 
     
    Because we're in the comfortable position that we can. We don't have to kill to eat, we don't have to fight to survive. Hell a lot of people don't even work and still live comfortable lives. Do you think our western morals have much relevance to an aboriginal hunter who has to hunt for his every meal? or to a child soldier in Sierra Leone?
     

    "I mean, you say there is no such thing as a place with no inner value and good, but thats just because you cannot imagine what a place would be like." 
     
    I said no such thing (either what you wrote, or what you clearly meant to write) I just recognize that it's an illusion, which we can enjoy while convenient, but that will go out of the window if we ever find ourselves in the position that we have to fight to survive again (Mustard gas and nuclear weapons anyone?)

    The world is not chaos, you have no idea what chaos is.
     
    Yeah you're right, the world is a fluffy garden paradise....

     

    "Galactus is a villain."
     
    Then so are you and I.

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    #58  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    "@box turtle said:

    " @Do I have to give a name? said:


    First off, I see no connection between some centuries old war described in the bible and the topic at hand.  But, seeing as you mentioned the Bible as a possible arguement, I will bring up the story of Daniel.  He stood steadfast to his morals, and was throne to the lions because of it.  He survived because God calmed the lions.
     
    What do you mean? I didn't mention the bible (rolls eyes) But since you bought it up, I will bring up Judges 19:23-30. It's about a man who had a guest in his house, a gang of men turned up wanting to rape the guest. The man saw that this would be an affront, so he instead (After offering his virgin daughter) gave them his concubine to gang rape. They used and abused her all night. In the morning the man took the concubine. As she was now impure he cut her into 12 pieces and sent her to the different parts of Israel. All who witnessed it said they didn't. Another admirably moral story, bought to you, in part by a loving god...

     
     "Also to be noted, is the United States isn't built on rape.  Give me one example of a rape that resulted in our country.  Oh, that's right, it never happened."
     
    Again you make a statement without checking the facts. At first I found it amusing, now I just think you need to read more. Anyway, here: One example.   Now I know you don't actually read these things, so I'll copy and paste you a short section (btw this, is the first result on google. there are more) 

    "Both Native American and African American slaves experienced being raped by their slave holders. Even the famous Pocahontas was raped at a young age by deputy governor Thomas Dale. Pocahontas told her older sister that she was raped by Thomas Dale. Rape was one of the worst crimes in a Native American's eyes and resulted in severe punishment even death. 
     
     I'm glad to see at least that you didn't try to deny the war, slavery and oppression parts.


    "And, anyway, if morals are so fake, why do people find hope and peace and follow firmly and enjoy these morals." 
     
    Because we're in the comfortable position that we can. We don't have to kill to eat, we don't have to fight to survive. Hell a lot of people don't even work and still live comfortable lives. Do you think our western morals have much relevance to an aboriginal hunter who has to hunt for his every meal? or to a child soldier in Sierra Leone?
     

    "I mean, you say there is no such thing as a place with no inner value and good, but thats just because you cannot imagine what a place would be like." 
     
    I said no such thing (either what you wrote, or what you clearly meant to write) I just recognize that it's an illusion, which we can enjoy while convenient, but that will go out of the window if we ever find ourselves in the position that we have to fight to survive again (Mustard gas and nuclear weapons anyone?)

    The world is not chaos, you have no idea what chaos is.
     
    Yeah you're right, the world is a fluffy garden paradise....

     

    "Galactus is a villain."
     
    Then so are you and I.

    "

    Um, first off, Pcohantas's rape by some random Brittish guy has nothing to do with the world being built. 
    War can be neccessary, genocie isn't.  For example, if you happen to be walking down the street and a guy walks up with a knife and starts to stab you with a knife, and you snap his neck, thats kind of different then you were hungry so you saw a baby and cooked it up, sprinkled a little salt and pepper and dug in. 
     
    And you think just because there is a little violence the world is chaos.  You have no idea what violence could be.   
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    @box turtle said:


    "@box turtle said:

    Um, first off, Pcohantas's rape by some random Brittish guy has nothing to do with the world being built. War can be neccessary, genocie isn't.  For example, if you happen to be walking down the street and a guy walks up with a knife and starts to stab you with a knife, and you snap his neck, thats kind of different then you were hungry so you saw a baby and cooked it up, sprinkled a little salt and pepper and dug in.  And you think just because there is a little violence the world is chaos.  You have no idea what violence could be.    "
    Once again you ignore most of the points and come in with a random statement. The part of that sentence you should of focused on was " Both Native American and African American slaves experienced being raped by their slave holders." The fact that you choose to ignore (or do not know of) the use of rape as a technique for population control, oppression of cultures and to "Breed out" societies throughout history doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that you are ignorant of it.
     

    "For example, if you happen to be walking down the street and a guy walks up with a knife and starts to stab you with a knife, and you snap his neck, thats kind of different then you were hungry so you saw a baby and cooked it up, sprinkled a little salt and pepper and dug in"
     
    Lol, that's got what exactly to do with anything? If it was an attempt at an analorgy, it is a very poor one. In the case of big G he doesnt think "hmm I haven't had breeakfast, I know I'll go kill 6 billion people". He does it to survive. In the same way you just implied is perfectly acceptable with the guy stabbing you story.
     
     "And you think just because there is a little violence the world is chaos.  You have no idea what violence could be."
     
    Actually I never once said the world was chaos, those are your words. If anything you think that because you live in a nice house and don't have to worry about men with guns trying to kill you every night that the world is a nice, happy joy filled place, despite 30.000 people starving to death every day, the 30 or so wars being fought at this very moment, the 11.000.000 aids orphans in Africa, The oppression of woman in the middle east (A woman was given 40 lashes today merely for wearing trousers) Frankly for you to belittle these peoples suffering in such a flippant way is verging on sick.
     
     
    I don't see the world in black and white, chaos and tranquility. I do however recognize that we have a LOT of problems and that not everyones life is as comfortable as my own. You on the other hand seem to delude yourself that your morals have made the world into a paradise. Were you  to actually pick up a book or a newspaper once in a while, or at the very least check the facts behind some of your statements, you might realize that the human society as a whole needs a lot of work, and people like yours denial of that fact makes that work all the more difficult.
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    #60  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    "@box turtle said:


    "@box turtle said:

    Um, first off, Pcohantas's rape by some random Brittish guy has nothing to do with the world being built. War can be neccessary, genocie isn't.  For example, if you happen to be walking down the street and a guy walks up with a knife and starts to stab you with a knife, and you snap his neck, thats kind of different then you were hungry so you saw a baby and cooked it up, sprinkled a little salt and pepper and dug in.  And you think just because there is a little violence the world is chaos.  You have no idea what violence could be.    "
    Once again you ignore most of the points and come in with a random statement. The part of that sentence you should of focused on was " Both Native American and African American slaves experienced being raped by their slave holders." The fact that you choose to ignore (or do not know of) the use of rape as a technique for population control, oppression of cultures and to "Breed out" societies throughout history doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that you are ignorant of it.  "For example, if you happen to be walking down the street and a guy walks up with a knife and starts to stab you with a knife, and you snap his neck, thats kind of different then you were hungry so you saw a baby and cooked it up, sprinkled a little salt and pepper and dug in"  Lol, that's got what exactly to do with anything? If it was an attempt at an analorgy, it is a very poor one. In the case of big G he doesnt think "hmm I haven't had breeakfast, I know I'll go kill 6 billion people". He does it to survive. In the same way you just implied is perfectly acceptable with the guy stabbing you story.    "And you think just because there is a little violence the world is chaos.  You have no idea what violence could be."  Actually I never once said the world was chaos, those are your words. If anything you think that because you live in a nice house and don't have to worry about men with guns trying to kill you every night that the world is a nice, happy joy filled place, despite 30.000 people starving to death every day, the 30 or so wars being fought at this very moment, the 11.000.000 aids orphans in Africa, The oppression of woman in the middle east (A woman was given 40 lashes today merely for wearing trousers) Frankly for you to belittle these peoples suffering in such a flippant way is verging on sick.  I don't see the world in black and white, chaos and tranquility. I do however recognize that we have a LOT of problems and that not everyones life is as comfortable as my own. You on the other hand seem to delude yourself that your morals have made the world into a paradise. Were you  to actually pick up a book or a newspaper once in a while, or at the very least check the facts behind some of your statements, you might realize that the human society as a whole needs a lot of work, and people like yours denial of that fact makes that work all the more difficult. "

    First off, slave owners raping their slaves didn't help the country, it was just for their own stupid pleasure.  Secondly, I am not denying that evil isn't present, I'm just saying that good is their too.  Do you know how much money the US government spends to help fight poverty, disease, and starvation OUTSIDE of the nation.  It has nothing to do with the country's survival, its just niceness. 
         Anyway, my baby analogy was that you are presenting the killing done by Galactus is like slaying an assailant.  By bringing up a baby, I was pointing out that the world's he eats are innocent (to him) and helpless, and pose him no threat.  He is just purely selfish, and thus a very vile villain. 
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    @box turtle said:

    " First off, slave owners raping their slaves didn't help the country, it was just for their own stupid pleasure.  Secondly, I am not denying that evil isn't present, I'm just saying that good is their too.  Do you know how much money the US government spends to help fight poverty, disease, and starvation OUTSIDE of the nation.  It has nothing to do with the country's survival, its just niceness.      Anyway, my baby analogy was that you are presenting the killing done by Galactus is like slaying an assailant.  By bringing up a baby, I was pointing out that the world's he eats are innocent (to him) and helpless, and pose him no threat.  He is just purely selfish, and thus a very vile villain.  "

    It may not of helped the country as such, however the opportunity simply would not of been there if not for the position that the English, Dutch, Spanish and French invaders had put the native American and African slaves in. I never said that the country would not of existed if not for rape, merely that it is a part of the wars and conflicts that have been going on for thousands of years (see section 5)  including in America, for example: During the colonization  of the Americas the rape of native women was not held to be a crime under Spanish Law as the persons in question were Pagan and not Christian.
     
    What you have done is totally ignore the original point that morals are not what put us in the position that we can preach to others. But that it was instead survival of the fittest (or in this case, dominance of the strongest) and instead tried to turn it into a discussion on the role of rape, without offering any retort whatsoever for the main point.
     
    Of course there is good too, we simply couldn't of reached this point if there was no willingness to help each other. However one of the points I've been making all along (and you've yet to address) is that when conflict comes (or indeed when we send it others way) it is through fighting, killing and military dominance, not morals which we maintain our position. 
     
    Yes I do know how much aid the U.S gives, $25 billion per year to Africa alone. However this is unfortunately not as altruistic as it would first seem, for two reasons. The first being that it would be much better for them if we just cleared their debt. The reason we don't do this is that while they owe us (if things continue at their current rate this will be an indefinite amount of time) we will be able to extract and  use their resources (for example colton, rubber and cobalt) without paying proper taxes to their governments, or disposing of the toxic waste in the same way we would have to in a first world country. The sad irony with Africa is that it is so rich in natural resources, but it remains such a poor continent as it is all tied up in foreign corporations and governments. The second reason, which is slightly more nitpicky is that in the 1970's many rich countries, including America pledged to give 0.7% of their national income to poorer countries, however only Denmark, Norway and The Netherlands have lived up to this pledge. Also in 2005 The G8 leaders promised to wipe the debt of 40 of the poorer countries and give an extra £50 billion of aid. However since then none of the countries have done this.
     
    As I said the baby analogy is a poor one. The worlds Galactus eats are innocent and defenceless and pose him no threat granted. But tell me, how much of a threat does a chicken offer you? Has a pig done anything to you that you could deem it to not be innocent? Yet you and I both eat them, this is frankly because they are a lower form of life to us, so we see no moral dilemma in eating them. Well like it or not humans are far lower to galactus then chickens are to humans. I know you believe that conscious thought and emotions set us apart from animals, but frankly they don't. Emotions (including complex ones) as I have shown are oft repeated in nature. And we are in no position to say what animals are capable of in the way of thought constructs (It may interest you to know that some of the arguments you've been offering for our superiority/right to kill over animals are some of the very same arguments offered to justify the early slave trade) 
     
    Really and truly unless the person arguing against Galactus is a Vegan there will always be a twinge of hypocrisy in what they say. A better analogy would be of a starving man being forced to eat his pet cat. It may seem somewhat morally dubious, but it is the ONLY way for him to survive.
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    #62  Edited By Phorqe

    Stop arguing. Its clear he is neither good nor evil. As said before he is a force of nature. 
     
    He is pretty much a humanoid embodiment of a Black hole traveling through the galaxy. 
     
    Things die so others can live. In many senses plants are alive. They aren't animals but share many of the same characteristics. They grow, reproduce and utilize oxygen, among other things. Surely the aforementioned rabbit isn't  a villain for eating a carrot.

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    #63  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    " @box turtle said:

    " First off, slave owners raping their slaves didn't help the country, it was just for their own stupid pleasure.  Secondly, I am not denying that evil isn't present, I'm just saying that good is their too.  Do you know how much money the US government spends to help fight poverty, disease, and starvation OUTSIDE of the nation.  It has nothing to do with the country's survival, its just niceness.      Anyway, my baby analogy was that you are presenting the killing done by Galactus is like slaying an assailant.  By bringing up a baby, I was pointing out that the world's he eats are innocent (to him) and helpless, and pose him no threat.  He is just purely selfish, and thus a very vile villain.  "

    It may not of helped the country as such, however the opportunity simply would not of been there if not for the position that the English, Dutch, Spanish and French invaders had put the native American and African slaves in. I never said that the country would not of existed if not for rape, merely that it is a part of the wars and conflicts that have been going on for thousands of years (see section 5)  including in America, for example: During the colonization  of the Americas the rape of native women was not held to be a crime under Spanish Law as the persons in question were Pagan and not Christian.  What you have done is totally ignore the original point that morals are not what put us in the position that we can preach to others. But that it was instead survival of the fittest (or in this case, dominance of the strongest) and instead tried to turn it into a discussion on the role of rape, without offering any retort whatsoever for the main point.   Of course there is good too, we simply couldn't of reached this point if there was no willingness to help each other. However one of the points I've been making all along (and you've yet to address) is that when conflict comes (or indeed when we send it others way) it is through fighting, killing and military dominance, not morals which we maintain our position.   Yes I do know how much aid the U.S gives, $25 billion per year to Africa alone. However this is unfortunately not as altruistic as it would first seem, for two reasons. The first being that it would be much better for them if we just cleared their debt. The reason we don't do this is that while they owe us (if things continue at their current rate this will be an indefinite amount of time) we will be able to extract and  use their resources (for example colton, rubber and cobalt) without paying proper taxes to their governments, or disposing of the toxic waste in the same way we would have to in a first world country. The sad irony with Africa is that it is so rich in natural resources, but it remains such a poor continent as it is all tied up in foreign corporations and governments. The second reason, which is slightly more nitpicky is that in the 1970's many rich countries, including America pledged to give 0.7% of their national income to poorer countries, however only Denmark, Norway and The Netherlands have lived up to this pledge. Also in 2005 The G8 leaders promised to wipe the debt of 40 of the poorer countries and give an extra £50 billion of aid. However since then none of the countries have done this.  As I said the baby analogy is a poor one. The worlds Galactus eats are innocent and defenceless and pose him no threat granted. But tell me, how much of a threat does a chicken offer you? Has a pig done anything to you that you could deem it to not be innocent? Yet you and I both eat them, this is frankly because they are a lower form of life to us, so we see no moral dilemma in eating them. Well like it or not humans are far lower to galactus then chickens are to humans. I know you believe that conscious thought and emotions set us apart from animals, but frankly they don't. Emotions (including complex ones) as I have shown are oft repeated in nature. And we are in no position to say what animals are capable of in the way of thought constructs (It may interest you to know that some of the arguments you've been offering for our superiority/right to kill over animals are some of the very same arguments offered to justify the early slave trade)   Really and truly unless the person arguing against Galactus is a Vegan there will always be a twinge of hypocrisy in what they say. A better analogy would be of a starving man being forced to eat his pet cat. It may seem somewhat morally dubious, but it is the ONLY way for him to survive. "

    First off, I am glad you admitted that our country isn't actually built on rape, just rape happened.  Secondly, if chickens were smartenough to talk and tell me coherently the emotions that they would feel if they were killed, I wouldn't eat then.  Also, the reason the US focuses on aid not ignoring debt is because the governments of these countries would just make more money for themselves and not help the people.  If we directly help the people, we are doing much more good.
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    #64  Edited By box turtle
    @Phorqe said:
    "Stop arguing. Its clear he is neither good nor evil. As said before he is a force of nature.   He is pretty much a humanoid embodiment of a Black hole traveling through the galaxy.   Things die so others can live. In many senses plants are alive. They aren't animals but share many of the same characteristics. They grow, reproduce and utilize oxygen, among other things. Surely the aforementioned rabbit isn't  a villain for eating a carrot. "

    A black hole can't think. 
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    @box turtle said:

    First off, I am glad you admitted that our country isn't actually built on rape, just rape happened.  Secondly, if chickens were smartenough to talk and tell me coherently the emotions that they would feel if they were killed, I wouldn't eat then.  Also, the reason the US focuses on aid not ignoring debt is because the governments of these countries would just make more money for themselves and not help the people.  If we directly help the people, we are doing much more good. "
    Well my meaning was never that it was literally built on rape, I was simply under the (misguided) impression that you were trying to say rape was not something that happened at all. (Though in ancient times it was very much a political tool, due to the shame attached to it)
     
     Anyway as I have said before, just because a chicken can't say in English that it doesn't want to be killed doesn't mean that it does. They are very much able to communicate, just not with us, but by the same token, we are unable to communicate with them. That does not negate the obviousness of their distress etc, especially in an abbattoir setting. 
     
    To be honest this thread has been going on way to long, so this will be my last post (Feel free to respond to it of course) so I'm just going to sum up my feelings on the matter before I go... 
     
    I like to think I'm a pretty moral person, i give to charity, help people when I can etc etc. One of my morals is that I like to think I would never kill someone. If however someone was threatening my life or the life of my family, in a them or me situation I wouldn't hesitate to end their life. That is because my morals come second to my survival instinct. You may not see the connection. But what it is is that Galactus does what he does not because he wants too, but because it is the only way for him to survive, and in moments like that morals will fall by the wayside, it's unavoidable. You likened it to me eating a baby. And if it was a case of Galactus eating his child to survive then I could agree with you, but from his point of view he's eating an inferior race. Even though he can hear our distress and protests, to him our lives are so empty and pointless it is akin to me hearing a pig squeal in it's last moments, distressing perhaps, but not enough to convince him to starve to death. Perhaps you believe in such a situation you would choose death, perhaps you are right. But you really can't underestimate how strong the survival instinct is. I just hope you never find yourself in the kind of situation where you would have to test that resolve.
     
    Oh yeah, on a side note. You're right to an extent about some of Africas leaders exploiting it if we were to wipe the debt. However they ruthlessly exploit the aid we give them too. The difference is when they owe us a debt we can lay claim to a lot of their resources and even workers at a much cheaper rate then is fair, with them too unwilling to say anything for fear of us calling in the debts. Really what is needed is better management to make sure the money gets too the people who need it, rather than the people who merely want it. Anyways that's a subject for another thread.
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    #66  Edited By Phorqe
    @box turtle said:
    " @Phorqe said:
    "Stop arguing. Its clear he is neither good nor evil. As said before he is a force of nature.   He is pretty much a humanoid embodiment of a Black hole traveling through the galaxy.   Things die so others can live. In many senses plants are alive. They aren't animals but share many of the same characteristics. They grow, reproduce and utilize oxygen, among other things. Surely the aforementioned rabbit isn't  a villain for eating a carrot. "
    A black hole can't think.  "
    Always  looking for a loop hole. Black holes don't think in any sense of what we consider thought. For that matter, neither would an ant. Galactus. is pretty much a god. Think about our world today. Did "god" create the world with no problems? Is it perfect? No, but it exists in a strange equilibrium. I've read a few times that if Galactus died all life in the Marvel universe would die. He is a necessary evil. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, so Galactus devours planets to remove them of their life bearing energy. That energy isn't destroyed, merely redistributed across the galaxy so that other planets could start anew.
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    #67  Edited By glforthewin

    Galactus seems evil is because he's resigned to his fate of having to kill worlds. It's just what he used to doing and to him it seems to be the only way of life 

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    #68  Edited By box turtle
    @Phorqe said:
    " @box turtle said:
    " @Phorqe said:
    "Stop arguing. Its clear he is neither good nor evil. As said before he is a force of nature.   He is pretty much a humanoid embodiment of a Black hole traveling through the galaxy.   Things die so others can live. In many senses plants are alive. They aren't animals but share many of the same characteristics. They grow, reproduce and utilize oxygen, among other things. Surely the aforementioned rabbit isn't  a villain for eating a carrot. "
    A black hole can't think.  "
    Always  looking for a loop hole. Black holes don't think in any sense of what we consider thought. For that matter, neither would an ant. Galactus. is pretty much a god. Think about our world today. Did "god" create the world with no problems? Is it perfect? No, but it exists in a strange equilibrium. I've read a few times that if Galactus died all life in the Marvel universe would die. He is a necessary evil. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, so Galactus devours planets to remove them of their life bearing energy. That energy isn't destroyed, merely redistributed across the galaxy so that other planets could start anew."

    It is really offensive that you compare Galactus to god.  God can create--Galactus can only destroy.  God created the world perfectly, BTW, its only people that corrupted it.  Galactus is just the form of corruption that makes the world bad.
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    #69  Edited By Phorqe

    Wow..... you need a hug.

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    #70  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    " @box turtle said:

    First off, I am glad you admitted that our country isn't actually built on rape, just rape happened.  Secondly, if chickens were smartenough to talk and tell me coherently the emotions that they would feel if they were killed, I wouldn't eat then.  Also, the reason the US focuses on aid not ignoring debt is because the governments of these countries would just make more money for themselves and not help the people.  If we directly help the people, we are doing much more good. "
    Well my meaning was never that it was literally built on rape, I was simply under the (misguided) impression that you were trying to say rape was not something that happened at all. (Though in ancient times it was very much a political tool, due to the shame attached to it)   Anyway as I have said before, just because a chicken can't say in English that it doesn't want to be killed doesn't mean that it does. They are very much able to communicate, just not with us, but by the same token, we are unable to communicate with them. That does not negate the obviousness of their distress etc, especially in an abbattoir setting.    To be honest this thread has been going on way to long, so this will be my last post (Feel free to respond to it of course) so I'm just going to sum up my feelings on the matter before I go...   I like to think I'm a pretty moral person, i give to charity, help people when I can etc etc. One of my morals is that I like to think I would never kill someone. If however someone was threatening my life or the life of my family, in a them or me situation I wouldn't hesitate to end their life. That is because my morals come second to my survival instinct. You may not see the connection. But what it is is that Galactus does what he does not because he wants too, but because it is the only way for him to survive, and in moments like that morals will fall by the wayside, it's unavoidable. You likened it to me eating a baby. And if it was a case of Galactus eating his child to survive then I could agree with you, but from his point of view he's eating an inferior race. Even though he can hear our distress and protests, to him our lives are so empty and pointless it is akin to me hearing a pig squeal in it's last moments, distressing perhaps, but not enough to convince him to starve to death. Perhaps you believe in such a situation you would choose death, perhaps you are right. But you really can't underestimate how strong the survival instinct is. I just hope you never find yourself in the kind of situation where you would have to test that resolve. Oh yeah, on a side note. You're right to an extent about some of Africas leaders exploiting it if we were to wipe the debt. However they ruthlessly exploit the aid we give them too. The difference is when they owe us a debt we can lay claim to a lot of their resources and even workers at a much cheaper rate then is fair, with them too unwilling to say anything for fear of us calling in the debts. Really what is needed is better management to make sure the money gets too the people who need it, rather than the people who merely want it. Anyways that's a subject for another thread. "


    The way we give aid is probably the most effective way to help the people. 
    Also, Galactus is not really morally above us.  He has never demonstrated anything on another plane of perception--he is just super smart, knows a lot more of the stuff thats going on, and can beat the snot out of just about anything.  Thats not higher perception--he is not percieving anything differently, like we do compared to a chicken, he just percieves more.  That means he is not superior to us except for the fact that he can beat us up and will die if we don't.  He has no more of a right to life than any single person, and he ends many lives, so he is a villain.  Galactus is a villain.
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    #71  Edited By sexy beast

    No.He just needs a lapban.

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    Well I wasn't planning to post in here again, but I came across something today that I wasn't aware of and which is pretty relevant to the topic:
     
     After his death, Galactus' remains take the form of a star. When the Fantastic Four later learn that much of the energy Galactus harvests from planets is devoted to keeping the cosmic entity Abraxas imprisoned — thus preventing him from destroying the multiverse Franklin Richards and Valeria Von Doom resurrect Galactus. Galactus is instrumental in defeating the unleashed Abraxas. --Wikipedia
     
    For me this changes things from the subjective matters of morals and superiority. Making it instead a much more clear-cut matter of the needs of the many outweighing those of the few.

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    #73  Edited By EisforExtinction
    @Omega Ray Jay said:
    " Id say he's a Chaotic Neutral "
    D&D to the rescue again.
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    no i wouldnt. in The Trial Of Galactus he was found to be otherwise.
    Glaactus lacks motive. He's a force. He also isnt a "being" in the normal sense.
    What we see is how it represents itself to beings. He actually resembles a star.
    Galactus is no more a villian than is a blackhole.

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    @box turtle said:

    " @Phorqe said:

    " @box turtle said:
    " @Phorqe said:
    "Stop arguing. Its clear he is neither good nor evil. As said before he is a force of nature.   He is pretty much a humanoid embodiment of a Black hole traveling through the galaxy.   Things die so others can live. In many senses plants are alive. They aren't animals but share many of the same characteristics. They grow, reproduce and utilize oxygen, among other things. Surely the aforementioned rabbit isn't  a villain for eating a carrot. "
    A black hole can't think.  "
    Always  looking for a loop hole. Black holes don't think in any sense of what we consider thought. For that matter, neither would an ant. Galactus. is pretty much a god. Think about our world today. Did "god" create the world with no problems? Is it perfect? No, but it exists in a strange equilibrium. I've read a few times that if Galactus died all life in the Marvel universe would die. He is a necessary evil. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, so Galactus devours planets to remove them of their life bearing energy. That energy isn't destroyed, merely redistributed across the galaxy so that other planets could start anew."
    It is really offensive that you compare Galactus to god.  God can create--Galactus can only destroy.  God created the world perfectly, BTW, its only people that corrupted it.  Galactus is just the form of corruption that makes the world bad. "
    @box turtle said:

    " @Do I have to give a name? said:

    " @box turtle said:

    First off, I am glad you admitted that our country isn't actually built on rape, just rape happened.  Secondly, if chickens were smartenough to talk and tell me coherently the emotions that they would feel if they were killed, I wouldn't eat then.  Also, the reason the US focuses on aid not ignoring debt is because the governments of these countries would just make more money for themselves and not help the people.  If we directly help the people, we are doing much more good. "
    Well my meaning was never that it was literally built on rape, I was simply under the (misguided) impression that you were trying to say rape was not something that happened at all. (Though in ancient times it was very much a political tool, due to the shame attached to it)   Anyway as I have said before, just because a chicken can't say in English that it doesn't want to be killed doesn't mean that it does. They are very much able to communicate, just not with us, but by the same token, we are unable to communicate with them. That does not negate the obviousness of their distress etc, especially in an abbattoir setting.    To be honest this thread has been going on way to long, so this will be my last post (Feel free to respond to it of course) so I'm just going to sum up my feelings on the matter before I go...   I like to think I'm a pretty moral person, i give to charity, help people when I can etc etc. One of my morals is that I like to think I would never kill someone. If however someone was threatening my life or the life of my family, in a them or me situation I wouldn't hesitate to end their life. That is because my morals come second to my survival instinct. You may not see the connection. But what it is is that Galactus does what he does not because he wants too, but because it is the only way for him to survive, and in moments like that morals will fall by the wayside, it's unavoidable. You likened it to me eating a baby. And if it was a case of Galactus eating his child to survive then I could agree with you, but from his point of view he's eating an inferior race. Even though he can hear our distress and protests, to him our lives are so empty and pointless it is akin to me hearing a pig squeal in it's last moments, distressing perhaps, but not enough to convince him to starve to death. Perhaps you believe in such a situation you would choose death, perhaps you are right. But you really can't underestimate how strong the survival instinct is. I just hope you never find yourself in the kind of situation where you would have to test that resolve. Oh yeah, on a side note. You're right to an extent about some of Africas leaders exploiting it if we were to wipe the debt. However they ruthlessly exploit the aid we give them too. The difference is when they owe us a debt we can lay claim to a lot of their resources and even workers at a much cheaper rate then is fair, with them too unwilling to say anything for fear of us calling in the debts. Really what is needed is better management to make sure the money gets too the people who need it, rather than the people who merely want it. Anyways that's a subject for another thread. "
    The way we give aid is probably the most effective way to help the people. Also, Galactus is not really morally above us.  He has never demonstrated anything on another plane of perception--he is just super smart, knows a lot more of the stuff thats going on, and can beat the snot out of just about anything.  Thats not higher perception--he is not percieving anything differently, like we do compared to a chicken, he just percieves more.  That means he is not superior to us except for the fact that he can beat us up and will die if we don't.  He has no more of a right to life than any single person, and he ends many lives, so he is a villain.  Galactus is a villain. "
    everything you said is absoltuly wrong and said without actual research.
     
     http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-forum/respect-galactus-51880/
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    #76  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    "Well I wasn't planning to post in here again, but I came across something today that I wasn't aware of and which is pretty relevant to the topic:
     
     After his death, Galactus' remains take the form of a star. When the Fantastic Four later learn that much of the energy Galactus harvests from planets is devoted to keeping the cosmic entity Abraxas imprisoned — thus preventing him from destroying the multiverseFranklin Richards and Valeria Von Doom resurrect Galactus. Galactus is instrumental in defeating the unleashed Abraxas. --Wikipedia  For me this changes things from the subjective matters of morals and superiority. Making it instead a much more clear-cut matter of the needs of the many outweighing those of the few. "

    I'm pretty sure Abraxas is dead now, so that might once have been neccessary, but not anymore. 
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    #77  Edited By box turtle
    @CATMANEXE said:
    " @box turtle said:

    " @Phorqe said:

    " @box turtle said:
    " @Phorqe said:
    "Stop arguing. Its clear he is neither good nor evil. As said before he is a force of nature.   He is pretty much a humanoid embodiment of a Black hole traveling through the galaxy.   Things die so others can live. In many senses plants are alive. They aren't animals but share many of the same characteristics. They grow, reproduce and utilize oxygen, among other things. Surely the aforementioned rabbit isn't  a villain for eating a carrot. "
    A black hole can't think.  "
    Always  looking for a loop hole. Black holes don't think in any sense of what we consider thought. For that matter, neither would an ant. Galactus. is pretty much a god. Think about our world today. Did "god" create the world with no problems? Is it perfect? No, but it exists in a strange equilibrium. I've read a few times that if Galactus died all life in the Marvel universe would die. He is a necessary evil. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, so Galactus devours planets to remove them of their life bearing energy. That energy isn't destroyed, merely redistributed across the galaxy so that other planets could start anew."
    It is really offensive that you compare Galactus to god.  God can create--Galactus can only destroy.  God created the world perfectly, BTW, its only people that corrupted it.  Galactus is just the form of corruption that makes the world bad. "
    @box turtle said:

    " @Do I have to give a name? said:

    " @box turtle said:

    First off, I am glad you admitted that our country isn't actually built on rape, just rape happened.  Secondly, if chickens were smartenough to talk and tell me coherently the emotions that they would feel if they were killed, I wouldn't eat then.  Also, the reason the US focuses on aid not ignoring debt is because the governments of these countries would just make more money for themselves and not help the people.  If we directly help the people, we are doing much more good. "
    Well my meaning was never that it was literally built on rape, I was simply under the (misguided) impression that you were trying to say rape was not something that happened at all. (Though in ancient times it was very much a political tool, due to the shame attached to it)   Anyway as I have said before, just because a chicken can't say in English that it doesn't want to be killed doesn't mean that it does. They are very much able to communicate, just not with us, but by the same token, we are unable to communicate with them. That does not negate the obviousness of their distress etc, especially in an abbattoir setting.    To be honest this thread has been going on way to long, so this will be my last post (Feel free to respond to it of course) so I'm just going to sum up my feelings on the matter before I go...   I like to think I'm a pretty moral person, i give to charity, help people when I can etc etc. One of my morals is that I like to think I would never kill someone. If however someone was threatening my life or the life of my family, in a them or me situation I wouldn't hesitate to end their life. That is because my morals come second to my survival instinct. You may not see the connection. But what it is is that Galactus does what he does not because he wants too, but because it is the only way for him to survive, and in moments like that morals will fall by the wayside, it's unavoidable. You likened it to me eating a baby. And if it was a case of Galactus eating his child to survive then I could agree with you, but from his point of view he's eating an inferior race. Even though he can hear our distress and protests, to him our lives are so empty and pointless it is akin to me hearing a pig squeal in it's last moments, distressing perhaps, but not enough to convince him to starve to death. Perhaps you believe in such a situation you would choose death, perhaps you are right. But you really can't underestimate how strong the survival instinct is. I just hope you never find yourself in the kind of situation where you would have to test that resolve. Oh yeah, on a side note. You're right to an extent about some of Africas leaders exploiting it if we were to wipe the debt. However they ruthlessly exploit the aid we give them too. The difference is when they owe us a debt we can lay claim to a lot of their resources and even workers at a much cheaper rate then is fair, with them too unwilling to say anything for fear of us calling in the debts. Really what is needed is better management to make sure the money gets too the people who need it, rather than the people who merely want it. Anyways that's a subject for another thread. "
    The way we give aid is probably the most effective way to help the people. Also, Galactus is not really morally above us.  He has never demonstrated anything on another plane of perception--he is just super smart, knows a lot more of the stuff thats going on, and can beat the snot out of just about anything.  Thats not higher perception--he is not percieving anything differently, like we do compared to a chicken, he just percieves more.  That means he is not superior to us except for the fact that he can beat us up and will die if we don't.  He has no more of a right to life than any single person, and he ends many lives, so he is a villain.  Galactus is a villain. "
    everything you said is absoltuly wrong and said without actual research.
     
     http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-forum/respect-galactus-51880/ "

    I don't quite get what a bunch of sentences saying Galactus is awesome in various ways has to do with the topic.  Could you please explain?
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    @box turtle said:

    " @Do I have to give a name? said:

    "Well I wasn't planning to post in here again, but I came across something today that I wasn't aware of and which is pretty relevant to the topic:
     
     After his death, Galactus' remains take the form of a star. When the Fantastic Four later learn that much of the energy Galactus harvests from planets is devoted to keeping the cosmic entity Abraxas imprisoned — thus preventing him from destroying the multiverse Franklin Richards and Valeria Von Doom resurrect Galactus. Galactus is instrumental in defeating the unleashed Abraxas. --Wikipedia  For me this changes things from the subjective matters of morals and superiority. Making it instead a much more clear-cut matter of the needs of the many outweighing those of the few. "

    I'm pretty sure Abraxas is dead now, so that might once have been neccessary, but not anymore.  "
     
     
    Seemingly all it really says is that Abraxas is nowhere to be found. so he could be dead, or he could just be re-imprisoned, meaning it is still very much necessary. Seems like a pretty interesting arc though, so I'm gonna pick it up and check it out in more detail. Also it said after that arc Galactus began to show remorse for those he's killed and to actively search for new sources of nourishment.
     
     

    The way we give aid is probably the most effective way to help the people. Also, Galactus is not really morally above us.  He has never demonstrated anything on another plane of perception--he is just super smart, knows a lot more of the stuff thats going on, and can beat the snot out of just about anything.  Thats not higher perception--he is not percieving anything differently, like we do compared to a chicken, he just percieves more.  That means he is not superior to us except for the fact that he can beat us up and will die if we don't.  He has no more of a right to life than any single person, and he ends many lives, so he is a villain.  Galactus is a villain. "

    everything you said is absoltuly wrong and said without actual research.
     
     http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-forum/respect-galactus-51880/ "

    I don't quite get what a bunch of sentences saying Galactus is awesome in various ways has to do with the topic.  Could you please explain? "
    I think he was reffering to Galactus' perception, one of the bits says:
     
    When Doom gains Galactus’s power, he also gains his omniscience:

    My senses have expanded! Of course! Omniscience is of necessity, a corollary of omnipotence! A...side effect! I — I feel every cell...every atom! Their textures! Their quivering movements! The dance of infinity...More! No physical barrier can restrain my senses! I see — no, it is far beyond seeing — I encompass all that exists around me! I possess more senses than before — ! An empathy...those imprisoned in the dungeons, I know their every thought, every secret, every smouldering, gnawing desire!

    ...for now...I am...aware! Aware of ALL things.

     
     
     
    And also perhaps about his importance compared to a human: 
     
     

    Of all the creatures in the vastness of the universe, there is none like me. I was present at the birth of the Universe, and I shall be there at its end. Though I ravage worlds to live, I bear no malice toward any living thing. I simply do what I must to survive. And why must Galactus survive? For, no matter how many worlds I devour...how many civilizations I destroy...It is my destiny to one day give back to the universe — INFINITELY more then I have ever taken from it. So speaks GALACTUS!

     
    I know that one of the alternate universe Galactus fought a rogue watcher for millenia, after defeating him there was only Galactus and Nova left in the universe. Galactus then released his energy to make a new big bang with Nova becoming the new universes Galactus. So I'd assume that's the kind of deal he has in mind.
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    #79  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    "@box turtle said:

    " @Do I have to give a name? said:

    "Well I wasn't planning to post in here again, but I came across something today that I wasn't aware of and which is pretty relevant to the topic:
     
     After his death, Galactus' remains take the form of a star. When the Fantastic Four later learn that much of the energy Galactus harvests from planets is devoted to keeping the cosmic entity Abraxas imprisoned — thus preventing him from destroying the multiverseFranklin Richards and Valeria Von Doom resurrect Galactus. Galactus is instrumental in defeating the unleashed Abraxas. --Wikipedia  For me this changes things from the subjective matters of morals and superiority. Making it instead a much more clear-cut matter of the needs of the many outweighing those of the few. "

    I'm pretty sure Abraxas is dead now, so that might once have been neccessary, but not anymore.  "
     
     
    Seemingly all it really says is that Abraxas is nowhere to be found. so he could be dead, or he could just be re-imprisoned, meaning it is still very much necessary. Seems like a pretty interesting arc though, so I'm gonna pick it up and check it out in more detail. Also it said after that arc Galactus began to show remorse for those he's killed and to actively search for new sources of nourishment.
     
     

    The way we give aid is probably the most effective way to help the people. Also, Galactus is not really morally above us.  He has never demonstrated anything on another plane of perception--he is just super smart, knows a lot more of the stuff thats going on, and can beat the snot out of just about anything.  Thats not higher perception--he is not percieving anything differently, like we do compared to a chicken, he just percieves more.  That means he is not superior to us except for the fact that he can beat us up and will die if we don't.  He has no more of a right to life than any single person, and he ends many lives, so he is a villain.  Galactus is a villain. "

    everything you said is absoltuly wrong and said without actual research.
     
     http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-forum/respect-galactus-51880/ "

    I don't quite get what a bunch of sentences saying Galactus is awesome in various ways has to do with the topic.  Could you please explain? "
    I think he was reffering to Galactus' perception, one of the bits says:
     
    When Doom gains Galactus’s power, he also gains his omniscience:

    My senses have expanded! Of course! Omniscience is of necessity, a corollary of omnipotence! A...side effect! I — I feel every cell...every atom! Their textures! Their quivering movements! The dance of infinity...More! No physical barrier can restrain my senses! I see — no, it is far beyond seeing — I encompass all that exists around me! I possess more senses than before — ! An empathy...those imprisoned in the dungeons, I know their every thought, every secret, every smouldering, gnawing desire!

    ...for now...I am...aware! Aware of ALL things.

     
     
     
    And also perhaps about his importance compared to a human: 
     
     

    Of all the creatures in the vastness of the universe, there is none like me. I was present at the birth of the Universe, and I shall be there at its end. Though I ravage worlds to live, I bear no malice toward any living thing. I simply do what I must to survive. And why must Galactus survive? For, no matter how many worlds I devour...how many civilizations I destroy...It is my destiny to one day give back to the universe — INFINITELY more then I have ever taken from it. So speaks GALACTUS!

     
    I know that one of the alternate universe Galactus fought a rogue watcher for millenia, after defeating him there was only Galactus and Nova left in the universe. Galactus then released his energy to make a new big bang with Nova becoming the new universes Galactus. So I'd assume that's the kind of deal he has in mind. "

    But that doesn't say Glactus has percieves more, he just does it better.  I mean, so what if you mind read the universe.  Your not any more mature and you can't understand it better.  I do agree that it sounds like an interesting arc but I think its important to point out that presently Abraxas, if not dead (which seems most likely), is gone, so that job of Galactus is no more.  Anyway, so what if Galactus says he will help the Universe in the end, he is being pretty vague--sounds more like wishful thinking.
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    #80  Edited By Phorqe

    LET THE PORTLY KID EAT!!!!! 
     
    No one is asking you to starve yourself so that ants can survive
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    @box turtle said:

    When Doom gains Galactus’s power, he also gains his omniscience:

    My senses have expanded! Of course! Omniscience is of necessity, a corollary of omnipotence! A...side effect! I — I feel every cell...every atom! Their textures! Their quivering movements! The dance of infinity...More! No physical barrier can restrain my senses! I see — no, it is far beyond seeing — I encompass all that exists around me! I possess more senses than before — ! An empathy...those imprisoned in the dungeons, I know their every thought, every secret, every smouldering, gnawing desire!

    ...for now...I am...aware! Aware of ALL things.

     
     
     
    And also perhaps about his importance compared to a human: 
     
     

    Of all the creatures in the vastness of the universe, there is none like me. I was present at the birth of the Universe, and I shall be there at its end. Though I ravage worlds to live, I bear no malice toward any living thing. I simply do what I must to survive. And why must Galactus survive? For, no matter how many worlds I devour...how many civilizations I destroy...It is my destiny to one day give back to the universe — INFINITELY more then I have ever taken from it. So speaks GALACTUS!

     
    I know that one of the alternate universe Galactus fought a rogue watcher for millenia, after defeating him there was only Galactus and Nova left in the universe. Galactus then released his energy to make a new big bang with Nova becoming the new universes Galactus. So I'd assume that's the kind of deal he has in mind. "
    But that doesn't say Glactus has percieves more, he just does it better.  I mean, so what if you mind read the universe.  Your not any more mature and you can't understand it better.  I do agree that it sounds like an interesting arc but I think its important to point out that presently Abraxas, if not dead (which seems most likely), is gone, so that job of Galactus is no more.  Anyway, so what if Galactus says he will help the Universe in the end, he is being pretty vague--sounds more like wishful thinking. "
     
    I've got to disagree, to me that's pretty much exactly what he's saying. I mean I sure as hell can't feel the textures and vibrations of every cell and atom, plus it even says "I posses more senses than before" Senses are by definition a means of perception.
     
    As for Abraxas being dead. I've seen some people say he is, and some say that things were returned to the way they were and he's simply imprisoned. Until I've read the arc for myself though, I'm not going to argue that point in either direction.
     
    " Anyway, so what if Galactus says he will help the Universe in the end, he is being pretty vague--sounds more like wishful thinking. "
    Well the alternate version of Galactus did pull it of when his universe ended, so it's clearly within his capacity. Also He doesn't exactly need to justify himself, he could simply say "I'm eating you because I can, try and stop me noob". So there's no real reason to doubt his claim. But I can understand that you want to see proof of it, problem is in showing that proof they would have to end the character, which is unlikely at best.
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    #82  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    " @box turtle said:

    When Doom gains Galactus’s power, he also gains his omniscience:

    My senses have expanded! Of course! Omniscience is of necessity, a corollary of omnipotence! A...side effect! I — I feel every cell...every atom! Their textures! Their quivering movements! The dance of infinity...More! No physical barrier can restrain my senses! I see — no, it is far beyond seeing — I encompass all that exists around me! I possess more senses than before — ! An empathy...those imprisoned in the dungeons, I know their every thought, every secret, every smouldering, gnawing desire!

    ...for now...I am...aware! Aware of ALL things.

     
     
     
    And also perhaps about his importance compared to a human: 
     
     

    Of all the creatures in the vastness of the universe, there is none like me. I was present at the birth of the Universe, and I shall be there at its end. Though I ravage worlds to live, I bear no malice toward any living thing. I simply do what I must to survive. And why must Galactus survive? For, no matter how many worlds I devour...how many civilizations I destroy...It is my destiny to one day give back to the universe — INFINITELY more then I have ever taken from it. So speaks GALACTUS!

     
    I know that one of the alternate universe Galactus fought a rogue watcher for millenia, after defeating him there was only Galactus and Nova left in the universe. Galactus then released his energy to make a new big bang with Nova becoming the new universes Galactus. So I'd assume that's the kind of deal he has in mind. "
    But that doesn't say Glactus has percieves more, he just does it better.  I mean, so what if you mind read the universe.  Your not any more mature and you can't understand it better.  I do agree that it sounds like an interesting arc but I think its important to point out that presently Abraxas, if not dead (which seems most likely), is gone, so that job of Galactus is no more.  Anyway, so what if Galactus says he will help the Universe in the end, he is being pretty vague--sounds more like wishful thinking. "
     
    I've got to disagree, to me that's pretty much exactly what he's saying. I mean I sure as hell can't feel the textures and vibrations of every cell and atom, plus it even says "I posses more senses than before" Senses are by definition a means of perception.
     
    As for Abraxas being dead. I've seen some people say he is, and some say that things were returned to the way they were and he's simply imprisoned. Until I've read the arc for myself though, I'm not going to argue that point in either direction.
     
    " Anyway, so what if Galactus says he will help the Universe in the end, he is being pretty vague--sounds more like wishful thinking. " Well the alternate version of Galactus did pull it of when his universe ended, so it's clearly within his capacity. Also He doesn't exactly need to justify himself, he could simply say "I'm eating you because I can, try and stop me noob". So there's no real reason to doubt his claim. But I can understand that you want to see proof of it, problem is in showing that proof they would have to end the character, which is unlikely at best. "

    His perception isn't any better, he just gets more through his senses.  He doesn't percieve, or learn more, from it.  I mean, so he can read a hundred minds.  If I could read a hundred minds I wouldn't be able to know anything more about theology or right and wrong etc. 
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    @box turtle said:

    But that doesn't say Glactus has percieves more, he just does it better.

                 His perception isn't any better, he just gets more through his senses.  "

    Dude, you're contradicting yourself. 
     
     
    I mean, so he can read a hundred minds.  If I could read a hundred minds I wouldn't be able to know anything more about theology or right and wrong etc.
     
    You would if you were to read the minds of 100 people who know more about theology than you, or even if you read the minds of 1 person who does and 99 who don't. His awareness isn't limited to reading minds, but even if it were that gives him the potential to hold all the known knowledge/ideas/philosophies in the universe (he already contains the sentience of the previous universe, so he clearly has the capacity to handle it.) If you or I were to hold even 0.1% of that it would fry our brains. It's like trying to run the entire internet on a pocket calculator.
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    saiyan_earthling

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    #84  Edited By saiyan_earthling

    i consider him a neutral in my opinion

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    The_Scourge

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    #85  Edited By The_Scourge

    He's a natural force of nature.

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    #86  Edited By AtPhantom

    Why is this still going on? If Galactus dies, the universe dies. End of discussion.

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    MajinBlackheart

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    #87  Edited By MajinBlackheart  Moderator

    I keep thinking the same thing

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    #88  Edited By box turtle
    @AtPhantom said:
    "Why is this still going on? If Galactus dies, the universe dies. End of discussion. "

    Um, no, that may once have been the case, but Abraxas is not around anymore. 
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    #89  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    " @box turtle said:
    But that doesn't say Glactus has percieves more, he just does it better.

                 His perception isn't any better, he just gets more through his senses.  "

    Dude, you're contradicting yourself. 
     
     
    I mean, so he can read a hundred minds.  If I could read a hundred minds I wouldn't be able to know anything more about theology or right and wrong etc.  You would if you were to read the minds of 100 people who know more about theology than you, or even if you read the minds of 1 person who does and 99 who don't. His awareness isn't limited to reading minds, but even if it were that gives him the potential to hold all the known knowledge/ideas/philosophies in the universe (he already contains the sentience of the previous universe, so he clearly has the capacity to handle it.) If you or I were to hold even 0.1% of that it would fry our brains. It's like trying to run the entire internet on a pocket calculator. "

    No, how you percieve is what matters.  A long time ago, a few people explained coherently that the Earth was round.  But even scientists who could logically understand their arguement denied it.  They didn't learn anything even though they had everything spelled out.  Galactus just can learn facts faster, but theology isn't quite something that hearing told will make you understand.  I mean, I'm sure people told Hitler "Your wrong, all science shows Jews are just as human as you, etc." but did Hitler listen? 
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    #90  Edited By Nova`Prime`

    I can't believe you're comparing a fictional comic book character, to one of the worst mass murderers in the history of  the world.

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    #91  Edited By MajinBlackheart  Moderator

    Yeah, Galactus isn't racist. He's an equal opportunity world devourer.

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    @box turtle said:

    " No, how you percieve is what matters.  A long time ago, a few people explained coherently that the Earth was round.  But even scientists who could logically understand their arguement denied it.  They didn't learn anything even though they had everything spelled out.  Galactus just can learn facts faster, but theology isn't quite something that hearing told will make you understand.  I mean, I'm sure people told Hitler "Your wrong, all science shows Jews are just as human as you, etc." but did Hitler listen?  "

    Actually it was the church, not scientists that were the main opposers of the heliocentric model. As I said Galactus isn't limited to reading minds, the previous post was just to illustrate that even if he were he would still be far beyond us. The guy can feel the very atoms and "encompass all that is around him" Whether you agree or not that is a clear case of better, more and indeed different perception. 
     
     The theology can be taken 2 ways. 1: just the religious dogma and fables, these can indeed be understood simply by reading them. They are after all human works which are understood by humans because we either read them or had other humans tell us of them. Or 2: The nature of existence, God, the universe etc. While these subjects have a certain air of mystery about them, if a being like Galactus were to exist he would be a far better candidate to comprehend them than any of us, partly because of his perception, partly because he contains the sentience of the previous universe and  partly because he is intrinsically linked with the beginning of our universe, as well as most likely the beginning of the next one.
      
    The point you made about Hitler is in pretty bad taste, as well as somewhat inaccurate. Nazi intolerance of the Jews was mostly based on political and religious prejudices that far pre-dated the Third Reich, not on the notion that Jews aren't human.
     
    This will be my last post. we're really not getting anywhere (except off topic) with this and I think a lot of the reason that you disagree is because you don't like the idea that perhaps you're not that special. While I can kind of understand that when based in our own reality, it seems kind of silly when comparing oneself to a fictional being that is written to be for all intents and purposes omnipotent.
     
    Edit: Just realised you said about the Earth being round, not revolving around the Sun (My bad) But either way the ancient Greeks believed the Earth to be round as early as 400 Bc (Ancient statues of Atlas are one of the indicators of this.) and it came to be a widely believed fact. No one in the scientific community (such as it was) at the times of Columbus believed the world to be flat. Though it was sometimes described as such in literature to add a certain air of romanticism to the exploits of explorers of the day.
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    #93  Edited By box turtle
    @Do I have to give a name? said:
    "@box turtle said:

    " No, how you percieve is what matters.  A long time ago, a few people explained coherently that the Earth was round.  But even scientists who could logically understand their arguement denied it.  They didn't learn anything even though they had everything spelled out.  Galactus just can learn facts faster, but theology isn't quite something that hearing told will make you understand.  I mean, I'm sure people told Hitler "Your wrong, all science shows Jews are just as human as you, etc." but did Hitler listen?  "

    Actually it was the church, not scientists that were the main opposers of the heliocentric model. As I said Galactus isn't limited to reading minds, the previous post was just to illustrate that even if he were he would still be far beyond us. The guy can feel the very atoms and "encompass all that is around him" Whether you agree or not that is a clear case of better, more and indeed different perception.    The theology can be taken 2 ways. 1: just the religious dogma and fables, these can indeed be understood simply by reading them. They are after all human works which are understood by humans because we either read them or had other humans tell us of them. Or 2: The nature of existence, God, the universe etc. While these subjects have a certain air of mystery about them, if a being like Galactus were to exist he would be a far better candidate to comprehend them than any of us, partly because of his perception, partly because he contains the sentience of the previous universe and  partly because he is intrinsically linked with the beginning of our universe, as well as most likely the beginning of the next one.    The point you made about Hitler is in pretty bad taste, as well as somewhat inaccurate. Nazi intolerance of the Jews was mostly based on political and religious prejudices that far pre-dated the Third Reich, not on the notion that Jews aren't human.  This will be my last post. we're really not getting anywhere (except off topic) with this and I think a lot of the reason that you disagree is because you don't like the idea that perhaps you're not that special. While I can kind of understand that when based in our own reality, it seems kind of silly when comparing oneself to a fictional being that is written to be for all intents and purposes omnipotent.  Edit: Just realised you said about the Earth being round, not revolving around the Sun (My bad) But either way the ancient Greeks believed the Earth to be round as early as 400 Bc (Ancient statues of Atlas are one of the indicators of this.) and it came to be a widely believed fact. No one in the scientific community (such as it was) at the times of Columbus believed the world to be flat. Though it was sometimes described as such in literature to add a certain air of romanticism to the exploits of explorers of the day. "

    First off, to clarify the world is round comment, I was refering to before Columbus (and anyway, in Columbus's time Spain believed the world was round, but many other countries didn't).  Anyway, I am sticking to my belief that Galactus can't understand anything better just because he feels and hears more: I mean, what has he figured out anyway?  Nothing, because he can't learn any better, he can just be in more classes (to use a school analogy).  I'm saying everyone is special, not just me, and that includes the whole planet and they are just as important as Galactus--because Galactus can't do anything mentally more (telepathy isn't mentally more, thats just a super-power).  He is not really mentally in sync with the universe, because he isn't absorbed in its principles, just the Big Bang and stuff like that.  I mean, if I watched the Big Bang I wouldn't know anything more about whether or not it had a purpose, or what the purpose was.   
    Finally, I'll just mention that even if Galactus had omnipotence that made him superior enough to squash humans--he tried to kill Ego and Epoch who were cosmic beings too and closer to his equal, so your arguement is kind of null and void. 
     

     
     

       
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    #94  Edited By MajinBlackheart  Moderator

    when did he try to kill ego and epoch? I know he put a device on Ego as punishment for Ego trying to kill him.

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    #95  Edited By AtPhantom
    @box turtle said:
    "
    First off, to clarify the world is round comment, I was refering to before Columbus (and anyway, in Columbus's time Spain believed the world was round, but many other countries didn't).     "
    That is a misconception. There is widespread evidence that the people in the middle ages knew the Earth was round.
     
    As for this debate, I really don't see what's the problem. Galactus feeds because he has to. If he doesn't, the universe dies. It has been stated numerous occasions that he bears no malice to any living being who stands in his way, that it is simply his nature.
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    #96  Edited By Aronmorales

    I used to think he was evil, now I see him as a grudgingly motivated force.

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    #97  Edited By box turtle
    @AtPhantom said:
    " @box turtle said:
    "
    First off, to clarify the world is round comment, I was refering to before Columbus (and anyway, in Columbus's time Spain believed the world was round, but many other countries didn't).     "
    That is a misconception. There is widespread evidence that the people in the middle ages knew the Earth was round.  As for this debate, I really don't see what's the problem. Galactus feeds because he has to. If he doesn't, the universe dies. It has been stated numerous occasions that he bears no malice to any living being who stands in his way, that it is simply his nature. "

    Not anymore, Abraxas is gone. 
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    #98  Edited By geraldthesloth
    @box turtle said:
    " @AtPhantom said:
    " @box turtle said:
    "
    First off, to clarify the world is round comment, I was refering to before Columbus (and anyway, in Columbus's time Spain believed the world was round, but many other countries didn't).     "
    That is a misconception. There is widespread evidence that the people in the middle ages knew the Earth was round.  As for this debate, I really don't see what's the problem. Galactus feeds because he has to. If he doesn't, the universe dies. It has been stated numerous occasions that he bears no malice to any living being who stands in his way, that it is simply his nature. "
    Not anymore, Abraxas is gone.  "
    Abraxas isn't gone, he's always there he got rewrote when the Ultimate Nullifier was used to bring everything back to normal.
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    box turtle

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    #99  Edited By box turtle
    @geraldthesloth said:
    " @box turtle said:
    " @AtPhantom said:
    " @box turtle said:
    "
    First off, to clarify the world is round comment, I was refering to before Columbus (and anyway, in Columbus's time Spain believed the world was round, but many other countries didn't).     "
    That is a misconception. There is widespread evidence that the people in the middle ages knew the Earth was round.  As for this debate, I really don't see what's the problem. Galactus feeds because he has to. If he doesn't, the universe dies. It has been stated numerous occasions that he bears no malice to any living being who stands in his way, that it is simply his nature. "
    Not anymore, Abraxas is gone.  "
    Abraxas isn't gone, he's always there he got rewrote when the Ultimate Nullifier was used to bring everything back to normal. "

    There is no proof to that statement and no one in Marvel Universe said it. 
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    #100  Edited By geraldthesloth
    @box turtle said:
    " @geraldthesloth said:
    " @box turtle said:
    " @AtPhantom said:
    " @box turtle said:
    "
    First off, to clarify the world is round comment, I was refering to before Columbus (and anyway, in Columbus's time Spain believed the world was round, but many other countries didn't).     "
    That is a misconception. There is widespread evidence that the people in the middle ages knew the Earth was round.  As for this debate, I really don't see what's the problem. Galactus feeds because he has to. If he doesn't, the universe dies. It has been stated numerous occasions that he bears no malice to any living being who stands in his way, that it is simply his nature. "
    Not anymore, Abraxas is gone.  "
    Abraxas isn't gone, he's always there he got rewrote when the Ultimate Nullifier was used to bring everything back to normal. "
    There is no proof to that statement and no one in Marvel Universe said it.  "
    Really?
     
    here you go.
     
      After that everything was back to normal.

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