Dear Gail, do some research would you?

#1 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Dear Gail,

I like your writing.  I really do.  You're funny and you write about bad guys.  What's not to like?

But I have this one problem with your stories.  You don't do any research on all the bad guys you use.  It's really distracting.  Since you don't seem to want to do any research, I'll do it for you.

Problems with issue 7:
Biggest problem here is you had the Secret Six fight against a bunch of villains, using the excuse that since most of them were C listers and D listers, the Six would be okay....only you put them up against no less than six bad guys who could have taken the whole team on their own plus a bunch of D listers.

1) Mamoth is invulnerable.  Like Wonder Girl punches him in the face and nothing happens invulnerable.  Shrugs off lasers and bullets invulnerable.  You can't beat him by cutting him unless you've got some really strong blades and a really strong person on the other end.  Scandal just doesn't fit the bill.

2) Phobia doesn't shoot lasers.  She makes illusions.  Really good illusions, too.  She could have beaten everybody on the Six on her own...if she wasn't busy shooting lasers.

3) Killer Frost (who by the way absorbs heat and can't be beaten by it.  That really bugged me during Villains United) should have been able to beat the team on her own too.  Same for Gentleman Ghost, Multiplex and Cheetah.  Luckily they all just disappeared after they jumped down onto the bridge instead of actually participating in the fight scene.  It seems really silly that the most powerful character to jump down from the top of the bridge was nowhere to be seen for the rest of the issue.

4) Kestrel is also bulletproof and super strong.  If he jumps at a car, he doesn't hit it, bounce off and get run over.  He totals the car and is unscratched.

I know most people don't care and I know you don't care, but I wish you would.  Some people actually like all these villains and don't like seeing you treat them like throw away characters.  Put a little care into your books eh?

-Z

#2 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11264 posts) - - Show Bio

I know how you feel. For example, you create a bad guy, you want to show what he can do, and then some one comes along doesn't understand or do research and messes the character up.

Totally agree.

And I also like Her. lol

#3 Posted by inferiorego (21226 posts) - - Show Bio

Retcon, there's your answer.

Staff
#4 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
Supreme Marvel said:
"I know how you feel. For example, you create a bad guy, you want to show what he can do, and then some one comes along doesn't understand or do research and messes the character up.Totally agree."
Exactly.

And its a shame too cause she really gets Deadshot.  Like if she put in just a little bit of effort, she could be great.
#5 Posted by Psychotime (623 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe she didn't like the original characters.

If the majority doesn't care about the characters, she saw it as a chance to change them into something she'd like to use, without having to worry about millions of angry fans complaining. Remember, majority rules.

No offense.

#6 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11264 posts) - - Show Bio

Then use characters that fit her needs.

#7 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously.  Its not like there aren't a bunch of throw away characters or characters that shoot lasers or characters that can be hurt by fire.  If by some miracle, she did run out of such characters, why doesn't she just make her own?

Its not that she wanted to change them.  Its that she didn't bother figuring out what the characters were about in the first place.

Plus, as a Wonder Woman writer, she doesn't have any excuse for characterizing Cheetah as much weaker than she really is.

#8 Posted by Hawkingbird (350 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree. The thing is, during the fight scene, there was massive confusion because not everyone knew who to attack, who to kill, what everyone else could do. Phobia couldn't have beaten them. They're people who're messed up beyond belief, to the point where fear is just another thing that they have to push past. And why would you have the most powerful person participate in a fight? To throw off the equality so when the Six win you can whine about underpowering Captain Cold?

And I vehemently disagree about your idea of her Cheetah. She's the only writer writing Cheetah powerfully! Rucka writes a "oooh baby" Cheetah, Pfeiffer writes a "ow I got hit by Bruce naptime!" Cheetah, and

#9 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkingbird said:

"Phobia couldn't have beaten them. They're people who're messed up beyond belief, to the point where fear is just another thing that they have to push past."

Being messed up doesn't save you from Phobia.  If Phobia could beat Raven, she can beat friggin Catman.

Hawkingbird said:

"And why would you have the most powerful person participate in a fight? To throw off the equality so when the Six win you can whine about underpowering Captain Cold?"

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.  Captain Cold wasn't even in the issue.

Why would you have the most powerful person not participate in a fight?  Like Cheetah took the time out of her day to climb to the top of the bridge so that she could jump off and watch other people fight?  Cause that seemed to be what she did...

Easy solution to the problem though.  Just don't put Cheetah on the other team.  Don't put Mamoth on the other team.  Don't put Killer Frost on the other team.
Batman doesn't go up against Doomsday on a regular basis.  Spider-Man doesn't have to tackle Apocalypse on his own.  Why the hell are the Secret Six constantly fighting people way out of their league?

Hawkingbird said:

"And I vehemently disagree about your idea of her Cheetah. She's the only writer writing Cheetah powerfully!"

So powerful that she didn't do a damn thing but tear up a car.

Nobody but Rucka is writing Cheetah as half a threat.

#10 Posted by Virago (1005 posts) - - Show Bio

#2 LOL
stupid lazers

#11 Edited by Hawkingbird (350 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
Nobody but Rucka is writing Cheetah as half a threat.

Yes, with her sleeping with SNAPPER CARR and her desperate need for frigging Snapper Carr to rescue her.


SNAPPER. CARR.









That's him above, folks. That's like writing in Lex Luthor sleeping with Danny Chase (I can't think of anyone better atm), with Lex playfully ruffling his hair post-coital. Rucka, while awesome and probably my 2nd favorite writer working in comics atm and a fantastic novelist and just plain great, writes BAD Cheetah. He writers her needing SNAPPER CARR'S help to escape the Resistors. Snapper Carr, you know, the guy who snaps?
#12 Posted by Colt (122 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to point out that this wasnt just the secret six against all these villians. half these villians were fighting to get the card, and im pretty sure they werent working together. just look at what happened to bolt and cheetah in issue #3 (yknow the issue where deadshot states that he doesnt think the entire six stood a chance against cheetah, and they all ran when bolt showed up.) hell, the card even turned the six against each other before the bridge fight. and even for those just trying to kill the six for money, they would still be caught in a battle field of super villians trying to get that card. and yea, the fight was a bit far-fetched but i didnt see any real putting down of these characters.


i dunno, i think youre being a bit sensitive. yea, the secret six cant take all those villians in a straight up fight, but thats not what happened.
#13 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

They were working together.  They were hired by Rag Doll's sister.  They all together climbed up the top of the bridge and waited for the Six.  Together.


As for Snapper, DC cannot decide what they want to do with him.  Sometimes he's the annoying sidekick.  Sometimes he's the packrat who used to be an annoying sidekick but has mellowed out and actually learned a lot of stuff about being a hero even if he couldn't be one himself.  Sometimes he's Joe Average, used to show how normal people would react in a given situation.  One time they even made him a superhero Steve McQueen and let him lead a group of other super powered people against an alien invation.  DC can't keep this guy straight.  He's worse than Hawkman.  Anything he does has to be taken with a grain of salt because he has no continuous character.

As for Cheetah sleeping with him, thats totally normal.  She tries to sleep with everybody.  She tried to sleep with Zoom.  She was like licking the Flash while she fought him.  Its not like she's in love with Snapper Carr.  He's just someone else to have sex with.

I say Rucka is the only one treating her with respect because when Rucka writes Cheetah, she can actually give the Flash a decent fight.  Other people are making her have trouble with Catwoman and Deadshot.

#14 Posted by Colt (122 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont think so, it was more of a contest to see who could kill them first. i doubt they were all gonna split the money afterwards. and i think gail simone was trying to emphasize that the only thing that mattered to these people was to get the card so they wouldnt spend eternity in hell. for a group of super villians to have that option, i dont think any amount of money would keep them from keeping it to themselves. which meant having to fight everyone there.


honestly im a bit biased cause i dont care for any of those characters, but if i did i'd prolly be on the same boat as you.
#15 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd be fine with that if that was what happened on pannel.

Like if Cheetah started ripping up people that weren't part of the Six?  I woulda been totally cool with that.  Instead she just disappeared.

#16 Posted by Hawkingbird (350 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
They were working together.  They were hired by Rag Doll's sister.  They all together climbed up the top of the ... [more]
It's completely consistant with Rucka's shockingly bad (it's GREG RUCKA, why is this not awesome?) characterization of the Cheetah, but completely inconsistant with Perez's, Messner-Loeb's, Jimenez's, and Simone's. It's stupid. An e-friend of mine described Barbara Minerva as "Lara Croft-meets-Indiana Jones, a master manipulator and all-around genius". Her sleeping with Snapper Carr? Her licking Snapper Carr's face? Yeah no.

That's Pfeiffer. Pfeiffer fails at anything remotely related to Wonder Woman. With Simone, she was writing Cheetah as not wanting to kill the Six so as not to raise the body count, and the Six all commented on how they were screwed 8 ways to hell, and now she just had an epic 1-issue long battle with Wonder Woman.
#17 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

So sleeping with somebody who you dont' care about that isn't as cool as you makes you stupid?  I just thought it made you a slut.

I do agree that Perez's Cheetah was better.

#18 Posted by Hawkingbird (350 posts) - - Show Bio

Ignoring your 'slut' comment, it's stupid because it makes NO SENSE. She's Barbara frickin' Minerva. If she really wants to have sex with someone so bad, there are dozens of better dudes then Snapper Carr who she could have in a heartbeat.

But yeah, to be fair, Perez DID basically invent Cheetah. Rucka's a fanficcer, which is a different type of hard then being a ficcer, because he's got to keep in line with previous characterization (which he kind of failed to when it came to Barbara, but suceeded amazingly when it came to Diana/Cassie)

#19 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

oh snapper carr.

#20 Posted by Hawkingbird (350 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't you mean, "Oh SNAP! ,er, carr?"

#21 Posted by KillerZ (1598 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm all for staying true to villains origin in the writing. The thing about Cheetah is that, she is supposed to be in Wonder Woman's weight class, and she could take some bunches from her. But all we see is she gets KO'd by Bats in one punch and Catwoman beats her with a whip...Plus, when was Urzkartaga god of fertility....

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