#1 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Edited by Koays (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rabbitearsblog: I feel the way I always have. ....sales aren't always indicators of quality.

4 months ago they were in the top selling books. are the books from four months ago better then the books from July?....I don't think so because we've been in a slow climb in quality since then

#3 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4579 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

@rabbitearsblog: I feel the way I always have. ....sales aren't always indicators of quality.

4 months ago they were in the top selling books are the books from four months ago better then the books from July....I don't think so because we've been in a slow climb in quality since then

I can agree with that.

#4 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: I actually agree with you. Personally, I don't usually look at the numbers on how well a title sells, I usually look at the quality of the title and decide if the title is worth picking up or not based on the story being told. You can have the title be the highest selling series ever, but that doesn't mean that the title is any good. Some of the best titles I've read were normally under the radar since sometimes they don't have to go through being pressured to bring out a good story every few weeks.

#5 Posted by HAWK2916 (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

I think people are backing off the constant weekly purchases and may be waiting on the trades. I know I've had to do this because i was really getting fed up with pacing and just getting fatigued I guess. But trade waiting has been the best thing for me in this case. I think some of the writing is contributing to the low sales and quite frankly people just dont see paying $4 for a comic that only really gives you about 16-20 pages of actual story.

#6 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4579 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

I think people are backing off the constant weekly purchases and may be waiting on the trades. I know I've had to do this because i was really getting fed up with pacing and just getting fatigued I guess. But trade waiting has been the best thing for me in this case. I think some of the writing is contributing to the low sales and quite frankly people just dont see paying $4 for a comic that only really gives you about 16-20 pages of actual story.

this seems likely to me. it certainly has effected how discerning i am with the books i follow or even give a chance to.

#7 Posted by HAWK2916 (1770 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: yeah. Especially considering the slightly cheaper price you can pay for the digital comics online

#8 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4579 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916: something else worth considering, I think, in terms of how we perceive stories issue to issue, is that if you check previews (which becomes more necessary with both more books to choose from and more money spent per book), on top of paying 4$ for 16-20 pages of story, we've just as likely read a quarter of the issue before we buy it.

While this probably makes it feel even more like we're paying more for less, if you are reading previews of anything you don't buy, you're actually getting to read more of what's going on overall without having to buy every book..

#9 Posted by RustyRoy (12772 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

@rabbitearsblog: I feel the way I always have. ....sales aren't always indicators of quality.

4 months ago they were in the top selling books. are the books from four months ago better then the books from July?....I don't think so because we've been in a slow climb in quality since then

QFT

#10 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

I think people are backing off the constant weekly purchases and may be waiting on the trades. I know I've had to do this because i was really getting fed up with pacing and just getting fatigued I guess. But trade waiting has been the best thing for me in this case. I think some of the writing is contributing to the low sales and quite frankly people just dont see paying $4 for a comic that only really gives you about 16-20 pages of actual story.

I usually just buy the trades if the issues start getting into a huge story arc that would require me to buy so many issues just to understand the story. That way, I would have the entire story in my hands rather than go out to the comic book store all the time and get each issue for the story arc.

#11 Edited by adamTRMM (1817 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it really surprising?

#12 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

Is it really surprising?

Right?

Bendis has made his irrevocable stamp in the X-Office and he's fervently dragging everyone down with him. This is the guy who sets the line-wide mandate and as it stands he has of yet to provide a stable consensus for both sides of the unnecessary Schism debacle, of which, he is still needlessly advocating within his average-at-best stories.

But then, when X-Titles were ranking within the TTs or w.e, didn't we have things like ANXM? Or Uncanny? Or Deadpool and stuff like that? Are those the laudable titles the genuine bread and butter of today's X-Men?

X-Force and All New X-Factor are innovative, character-driven and headed with direction. That's including the solo titles as well. The other X-Titles are not and it is clearly showing.

#13 Edited by adamTRMM (1817 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

Right?

Bendis has made his irrevocable stamp in the X-Office and he's fervently dragging everyone down with him. This is the guy who sets the line-wide mandate and as it stands he has of yet to provide a stable consensus for both sides of the unnecessary Schism debacle, of which, he is still needlessly advocating within his average-at-best stories.

But then, when X-Titles were ranking within the TTs or w.e, didn't we have things like ANXM? Or Uncanny? Or Deadpool and stuff like that? Are those the laudable titles the genuine bread and butter of today's X-Men?

X-Force and All New X-Factor are innovative, character-driven and headed with direction. That's including the solo titles as well. The other X-Titles are not and it is clearly showing.

No arguing here, there's no single positive development I can think about when we're talking about Bendis and the X-men. I've even read some of his Avengers work, and besides two Annuals of Wonder Man "going insane" it was all just a waste of time to say the least.

But then, smartasses like us wank over quality stuff like X-force and X-factor, and sells are NOT there to support us, I really don't think there's the formula of marketing to back up or determine the "real quality" comics.

#14 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm: I really need to check out the X-Factor and X-Force titles!

#15 Posted by adamTRMM (1817 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Posted by Fallschirmjager (17639 posts) - - Show Bio

don't worry. Uncanny and All-New are up to the late 20's in their runs right? Marvel will relaunch them soon and pad those sales figures.

#18 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm:

It's just...he is such a nice guy, but he needs go. Course, that's not happening for another 5 or 10 years but i a guy can dream...

I would, of course, slow down on the "smartasses like us" note, though. It's a bit condescending and what not. I think it's just that, within life in general, the majority generally gravitates to whatever's being arduously shoved in their faces with no end in sight, despite the absence of veritable precedence and perceptibly quantifiable aesthetics, they'll just go. Doesn't make us smarter, just means we like what we like...a whole bloody lot and aren't as...susceptible? Not to get all philosophical, but unfortunately, in this world, some people live their entire lives sleeping under false pretenses.

#19 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

At most, Adam, we can hope (or pray if you're really desperate) for X-Force and ANXF to stand the tests of time and receive due recognition for their contributions.

#20 Posted by Koays (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll go along with the others as far as this POSSIBLY being the market reflecting fan exhaustion, but the Bendis hate doesnt apply here as much since Uncanny has drastically improved in its July issues from when it was up in the top books. Plus lets not even get into the fact that other then Harley Quinn the X-books were competing against top tier books or books that were being heavily pushed by the X-men's own company....most of which were #1's or Events.

@hawk2916: something else worth considering, I think, in terms of how we perceive stories issue to issue, is that if you check previews (which becomes more necessary with both more books to choose from and more money spent per book), on top of paying 4$ for 16-20 pages of story, we've just as likely read a quarter of the issue before we buy it.

I totally agree. I would've dropped WatX-Men this week, but I checked the preview out of habit. Now i'm slightly interested but have read the first four pages of the book....are the remaining 16 pages of a book worth my $4 when i wasn't really that excited for it to begin with?

#21 Edited by adamTRMM (1817 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane:

It's just...he is such a nice guy, but he needs go. Course, that's not happening for another 5 or 10 years but i a guy can dream...

Oh, I'm too old to actually hate the writer for not delivering the story I would like to read, so every time I ventilate my negativity it's never personal (of course if I wasn't offended personally by the story lol) I'm sure he's a nice fella and all, he's also not talentless, its just his stories are... not even really mediocre, they're just nothing that really matters to me.

I would, of course, slow down on the "smartasses like us" note, though. It's a bit condescending and what not. I think it's just that, within life in general, the majority generally gravitates to whatever's being arduously shoved in their faces with no end in sight, despite the absence of veritable precedence and perceptibly quantifiable aesthetics, they'll just go. Doesn't make us smarter, just means we like what we like...a whole bloody lot and aren't as...susceptible? Not to get all philosophical, but unfortunately, in this world, some people live their entire lives sleeping under false pretenses.

You misunderstood, the second part of the message was cynical :) I'm in no way trying to be presumptuous, I thought the tone of expression was obvious, my bad I guess. Hey, "the boy" within me still roots for epic battles, badass moments and simple drama/tragedy, it's the grownup who wants complexity, smart twists and harsh metaphors all within exquisite writing. Doesn't make me smarter than anybody else here.

At most, Adam, we can hope (or pray if you're really desperate) for X-Force and ANXF to stand the tests of time and receive due recognition for their contributions.

Too early to judge that far-reachingly IMO, for now we can just enjoy them and hope they will become such.

#22 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4579 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

I totally agree. I would've dropped WatX-Men this week, but I checked the preview out of habit. Now i'm slightly interested but have read the first four pages of the book....are the remaining 16 pages of a book worth my $4 when i wasn't really that excited for it to begin with?

I think it's generally a mistake to pick up a book that you weren't all that excited about in the first place, and especially if it's after reading the preview. But if the preview intrigued you, sometimes you can follow a random hunch without much expectation and be pleasantly surprised.

I find that's generally more likely to happen with a book you weren't already reading, but sometimes the start of a fresh arc can genuinely reignite your interest.

In the case of WatX-men, while I've really enjoyed the beginning of this book for it's humorous character moments, busy pace, and fun art, the reliance on the possible future and Phoenix tropes (especially so relatively soon after AvsX and BotA) just seemed to make the plot itself get stale. That the conclusion of the story was so convoluted and confusingly executed kind of just made it that much less enjoyable overall.

That said, while the first story may have been ultimately a bit of a dud, lots of books don't get really good until their second arc, and this one at least had enough that I did find entertaining to make me want to give a second arc at least a chance, personally..

#23 Posted by Koays (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

I totally agree. I would've dropped WatX-Men this week, but I checked the preview out of habit. Now i'm slightly interested but have read the first four pages of the book....are the remaining 16 pages of a book worth my $4 when i wasn't really that excited for it to begin with?

I think it's generally a mistake to pick up a book that you weren't all that excited about in the first place, and especially if it's after reading the preview. But if the preview intrigued you, sometimes you can follow a random hunch without much expectation and be pleasantly surprised.

I find that's generally more likely to happen with a book you weren't already reading, but sometimes the start of a fresh arc can genuinely reignite your interest.

In the case of WatX-men, while I've really enjoyed the beginning of this book for it's humorous character moments, busy pace, and fun art, the reliance on the possible future and Phoenix tropes (especially so relatively soon after AvsX and BotA) just seemed to make the plot itself get stale. That the conclusion of the story was so convoluted and confusingly executed kind of just made it that much less enjoyable overall.

That said, while the first story may have been ultimately a bit of a dud, lots of books don't get really good until their second arc, and this one at least had enough that I did find entertaining to make me want to give a second arc at least a chance, personally..

I admit i was on the fence with this next issue since i really wanted to like Latour's run and things like Genesis, Armor, and solid student interactions intrigued me....but as you said, starting with a time traveling Phoenix story couldn't have been more wrong.

The Armor stuff has me curious as to what the book will be about without the things that were linked to that arc, and provided that certain story elements stay isolated in the first arc for the forseeable future, i can possibly get back into the book since the writing it's self wasn't bad. Still the worst thing a writer can do is confuse me, and i was thoroughly confused by the last issue...

Though the question remains of should someone have to pay $4, when it's almost required to read the first 5 pages for quality reassurance....

#24 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4579 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

I admit i was on the fence with this next issue since i really wanted to like Latour's run and things like Genesis, Armor, and solid student interactions intrigued me....but as you said, starting with a time traveling Phoenix story couldn't have been more wrong.

The Armor stuff has me curious as to what the book will be about without the things that were linked to that arc, and provided that certain story elements stay isolated in the first arc for the forseeable future, i can possibly get back into the book since the writing it's self wasn't bad. Still the worst thing a writer can do is confuse me, and i was thoroughly confused by the last issue...

That's pretty much how I feel about it too.

for me it's the only issue so far that i haven't really enjoyed, so I'm willing to give it another chance.

but that's just me.

Though the question remains of should someone have to pay $4, when it's almost required to read the first 5 pages for quality reassurance....

mm.. required is a strong word here.. especially since a preview can potentially intrigue you more than the book itself amuses you. And I mean, you are still getting 20 pages whether you've already read some of them or not.

Maybe we should be getting more pages of story per issue for our 4 bucks, I wouldn't disagree with that. But that 20 pages is still kind of a standard, and that 4$ doesn't seem to high for the books we think are wort it, it still seems kind of fair..

There's definitely been plenty of books I gave way more chances to than I wished I had in the end, so it's definitely worth trying to be discerning. But since this question applies as much to books that you know you want to buy, and that you are satisfied with in the end, I think it's still fair that they be priced comparably.

#25 Posted by Koays (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Though the question remains of should someone have to pay $4, when it's almost required to read the first 5 pages for quality reassurance....

mm.. required is a strong word here.. especially since a preview can potentially intrigue you more than the book itself amuses you. And I mean, you are still getting 20 pages whether you've already read some of them or not.

Maybe we should be getting more pages of story per issue for our 4 bucks, I wouldn't disagree with that. But that 20 pages is still kind of a standard, and that 4$ doesn't seem to high for the books we think are wort it, it still seems kind of fair..

There's definitely been plenty of books I gave way more chances to than I wished I had in the end, so it's definitely worth trying to be discerning. But since this question applies as much to books that you know you want to buy, and that you are satisfied with in the end, I think it's still fair that they be priced comparably.

True, I guess with a solid book it may not apply as strongly or at all, but with some of the hot/cold titles (Amazing, ANX-Men, X-Men) it kind of bugs if you pay $4 for a lackluster issue you read the beginning of already. Though i guess buyers remorse is to be expected when dealing with comic fans to a degree.

#26 Edited by Ms-Lola (2905 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a "see the forest, not the trees" kind of person. Month by month sales are important when it comes to newish titles like Elektra's new solo, etc and I am paying particular attention to others similar to that. Though, when it comes to the X-Men, I don't worry too much since Marvel seems to make it a habit of renaming their books every so often (and team members as well) to shake things up when sales seem dismal. I'll start getting worried when a smaller number of X-titles become available (one to three) and then start to not make the top selling lists.

#27 Posted by Poze11 (121 posts) - - Show Bio

Sales come and go, but it never stop selling. Have anyone considered to buy the Uncanny Avengers? Good story though.

#28 Posted by Mechapod (25 posts) - - Show Bio

I picked up the two Uncanny X-Men Original Sin crossover issues. Had it not been for the crossover, I'd have passed on them. I've missed too much of the background story to know whats going on, and I was not too impressed with the art. Further, I think they bombed on Dazzler's new design.