X-Men are ranked #1 Marvel franchise by BuzzFeed

http://www.buzzfeed.com/perpetua/marvel-franchises-ranked-from-worst-to-best#.fp7RxNr37L

The X-Men are the best superheroes of all time. They just are. The central premise of mutants being hated and feared by the world isolates one of the most resonant elements of the Spider-Man mythos and expands it into a powerful metaphor for anyone who feels marginalized and unfairly maligned by society. The franchise features a majority of the very best characters in the Marvel cannon — Wolverine, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Storm, Magneto, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Beast, Colossus, Kitty Pryde, Mystique, Charles Xavier, and Emma Frost, just to name a few — and their stories have been told by the very best creators in the history of superhero comics. Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Paul Smith, Arthur Adams, Barry Windsor-Smith, Alan Davis, Marc Silvestri, Jim Lee, Grant Morrison, Frank Quitely, Joss Whedon, John Cassaday, Matt Fraction, Terry Dodson, Kieron Gillen, Brian Michael Bendis, Stuart Immonen, Chris Bachalo — again, that’s just to name a few. The franchise has always been progressive, and Claremont in particular was waaaay ahead of the curve in terms of promoting diversity and developing a deep bench of strong, nuanced female cast members. Also, unlike a lot of other superhero franchises, the X-Men franchise is built to constantly change and evolve, so it’s always taking on interesting new forms while other characters feel old-fashioned or stagnant.

@koays: That's Gold Jerry!!! GOLD!!!

Now if only Marvel know this...

@hawk2916: Lmao, I try.

While I don 't disagree with the article, I do find it funny that Claremont is always mainly credited with being diverse and progressive with female characters for his time. I mean, forget that he was great at writing long arching story lines, developing every character whether they are a male, female, alien entity, villain or supporting character, taking such a silly concept like people with super powers and making it this realistic feeling, melodramatic, epic and co created some of the most intrinsic and core concepts of X-Men and super hero comic lore. The diversity is what is important dammit!!

I guess I am getting too old but I don;t understand what the obsession is with diversity these days.....I mean, do non whites and women really think that white men identify with characters in comics because they happen to share the same skin color as they do?? Never once have I read the Fantastic Four and thought "Hey, I totally get the plight of Reed Richards because he is the smartest man on the planet and so am I" or share a semblance to Johnny Storm for being an incredibly attractive MIT graduate, or to Ben Grimm, being a grizzled Jew who was a boxer at some point. Most white males have almost nothing in common with these characters other than their race. People enjoy comics because of good storytelling and fun characters. If a story is good enough, and the character is interesting enough, people will enjoy it, regardless of what the protagonists look like.

It's almost like diversity and women empowerment is all you hear about these days in comics.

buzzfeed is the douchiest channel lmao... Left propaganda mill over there

@koays: lol

Agreed.

I'm Black, and in today's social/political climate that is supposed to be relevant. But i find myself more often then not arguing against the idea that inclusiveness is something to be rewarded. Wally West was the Flash and has been around longer then most comic fans have been alive....being white wasn't a character trait, it's just part of his physical description and how we identify the character. And there are people who i've debated who think it's great progress for DC as a company that he's been made half black in the N52, when really from a writing standpoint if your going to give someone a different background, appearance, story role and personality....then well their not really the same character are they?

And yet it's done in the name of inclusiveness and diversity and treated as an accomplishment. If that's the case then they should have Brock Lesnar play Bruce Banner in the next Hulk movie.....not Hulk, just Bruce Banner. That way we can celebrate the inclusiveness of musclebound dudes despite the hoops we have to jump through in a script to explain it.

@cattlebattle: Exactly. i agree 100%. Before I go off let me say that im glad to hear confirmation of what i already knew. Xmen are the best.

NNNNNooooowwwww.....

Diversity and Equality is something needed in society but please Marvel dont tell me you are being diverse because you decided to make Captian America black. Thats like saying you're not racist because you have a friend thats black. I'm black and Ive never had a problem with the amount of black people in comics or not.

I choose not to make entertainers or fictional comic book characters my role models and heroes. Neither is someone a hero because they decide to announce that they are gay or that some hero is being written as gay. I've been in action in the middle east and I know what a hero is and Ive seen them. I had a father who worked two and three jobs to put food on the table for his family. I work with firemen who run into burning buildings to save people. Dont tell me that because someone decides to make some fictional character gay, that they deserve some award or because somebody decides to come out as gay or change their sex that they are heroes. Its insulting and it doesnt compare.

One of the reason why this country/society is getting weaker and weaker is because of everybody trying to be so politically correct and not offend anyone. People really need to stop being so sensitive. Its ridiculous. You want to show diversity then dont change Nick Fury or Cap or Thor. Give Luke Cage a bigger role or give Storm something more, give Black Panther more stuff. Really Falcon having to take up Cap's mantle and do what he says could be seen in a different light if you want to be honest. You want to show your diverse and all about equality dont give me a damn comic, i think of plenty of other ways you can show other than this.

Sorry for the rant but Im just glad someone isnt afraid to speak up on this stuff

Eww. BuzzFeed.

@koays: @hawk2916:

Im not black :D but i have a black wife, and two half black kids does that mean anything? No lol, not at all but this is a conversation me and my wife have on a pretty regular basis and its good to hear we aren't the only ones. Why do you have to change something to include something else? Why are people so sensitive? If there aren't any black X men well there are blue ones? And green ones? who relates to them? Idk its weird that so much stock is put into things like that, the all women x men were silly why couldn't they have just been the X men? hell you could release that roster and never mention its all women and I'd be ok with it, cause it was a good roster you tell a good story im sold, and just for the record best and hellion were both pretty big characters atleast from a supporting role, and i would perfer them to not exclude people or character from a story that might make it better just because they don't fit some criteria they are looking to fill

@mcklayn: Exactly!! If there is any formula that X-teams should follow it should be maybe having a teleporter, a psychic, a brick, a lancer etc and not white, black, chinese, latino, gay etc.

What did everybody do before this so-called diversity movement, i guess there were no sales in comics right... yeah im talking about the time when comics were actually good and sales were actually a lot better than the so-called diverse stuff now. Its like Oooooo!! Ooooo!! its ok to be muslim now because Ms. marvel is and so now that means Im right and accepted.

Please, its all a weak gimmick and a joke. People really need to toughen up and stop looking for outside means to validate and justify themselves.

yay!!!! also "rise of the phoenix" lol :P

@mcklayn: @hawk2916: @koays: Well, you guys were able to articulate it better than me, and have more profound thoughts about the whole thing, I was just saying that I don't understand what the obsession is with talking about diversity these days, I mean, it's fundamentally important to not treat someone like sh*t because they were randomly born different from you, but it just seems like people obsess over it these days.

I watched a highlight reel of Comic con recently and it seemed like every panel for every TV show and movie said something about "strong female characters" or "more roles for people of color" or something, and some of them were coming from TV shows that are kind of dull, which makes me think that maybe their problem isn't lack of non white male characters, but maybe just crappy writing in general. At the Star Wars panel there was two people of eastern Asian descent that asked the director if there would be any Asian characters in Star Wars.....which could be construed as kind of a selfish, nonsensical question.....I mean, they didn't specify; Do they want an Asian character as supporting role? The main hero? The main villain?? If a person of Asian descent appears as a villain does that get called out for being insensitive? Is it insensitive if he dies?? Does an Asian person appearing Star Wars score a victory for Asian peoples in general?? It just kind of feels like everyone wants to feel oppressed or progressive and complain about any little detail even if it defies logic, like people of all races complained about Peter Parker showing up in the Marvel movies as opposed to Miles Morales.....despite the fact that Peter Parker is not only infinitely more well known, but also has a laundry list of great, infamous supporting characters and villains, while Miles Morales has a fat Asian friend for comic relief. It just seems like when it comes to Marvel and DC these days I hear more about diversity and race changes and "promoting strong female characters and people of every sexual orientation" more than hear about anything interesting....of course, all of this is coming from an aging white man. People always say that a characters race "doesn't matter" then advocate the change of it, which is kind of cognitive dissonance seeing as if the race didn't matter, there would be no reason to have changed it....you see?? It's all nonsensical and I am just tired of hearing about it.

It's also that whenever you read articles about the X-Mens history and Claremont comes up, nobody ever really credits him for doing things like making the X-Men spin offs like New Mutants, which could have honestly been unsuccessful, and make it somewhat more enjoyable than the actual X-Men title, or the fact that he started a domino effect that led to the X-Men being one of the hottest things in fiction in the early 90s to the point where everyone in the comic industry tried to replicate it's success in some way or another, or the fact that the New Mutants, which was essentially his baby, was another influence of things like the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Everyone always just primarily acknowledges him for being able to write non whites and females like interesting human beings......something that he really probably didn't even consciously make an effort to do and just did naturally.

@cattlebattle: I agree with this wholeheartedly

@mcklayn: @hawk2916: @cattlebattle: So much truth here. Diversity for the sake of saying your diverse isn't diversity. It's the equivalent of starting off having a friend of a certain race just so you can tell people you have ________ friends, accept instead we have every team getting a "designated gay guy" who fufills that role simply. True diversity and inclusiveness isn't something that should be stamped on for approval nor should praise be dealt out for including different races/creeds/sexualities if it isn't the basis on which the story is formed and anyone who needs to find the guy on the team who looks the most like them in order to engage with a book has a bigger problem then a work that has 5 middleclass heterosexual Caucasians as it's core cast.

To be honest, I just take more issue with adding a trait to a character just to fit some invisible "affirmative action" quota then i'll ever take with the idea that the strongest characters in the DC universe (at least appear) white.

@mcklayn: @hawk2916: @koays: @cattlebattle:

Nah, I'm gay, and I want every single character to be gay. Iceman is the first step in heterosexual erasure, and by god I hope he's not the last. I need to be liberated from this hetero prison.

Overly privileged X-Men fans. The irony gets me every time.

"If there is a black dude, it's because of Affirmative Action! Especially if there is more than one!"

"If you have a problem with there only being white guys in a comic then it's YOU who has a problem! They shouldn't force white characters to be around blacks!"

@sprior93 said:

@mcklayn: @hawk2916: @koays: @cattlebattle:

Nah, I'm gay, and I want every single character to be gay. Iceman is the first step in heterosexual erasure, and by god I hope he's not the last. I need to be liberated from this hetero prison.

And I'm black. Let's join forces and spread our deliciously malicious plot to erase straight and white people from comics!

Muaha...muaha....muahahahahahahahahaha!

Anyway, as for the topic of the thread, I'm glad. I just wish Marvel had the same love for X-Men characters.

As an Asian man (Filipino to be exact) and a fan of Western comics and other nerdy Western things. I kind of feel for the guys who are asking if there would be Asian characters in Star Wars. I think it's a fair question since Asians doesn't seem to exist anywhere (unless it's a hot Asian chick with an exotic accent). But, it should've been worded better and more specific. Asian representation in any medium has always been in the negative. Until recently, Asians have always been portrayed in very stereotypical roles in many major films, comics, etc... and it actually affected how American born Asians view themselves as they grow up along with how other people view Asians. Gene Luen Yang, a Chinese-American comic book writer, wrote the graphic novel "American Born Chinese" dealing with that very issue. It's a fantastic read if you are interested in learning about other cultures in America. I actually would like to see Gene Luen Yang create an Asian-American superhero for Marvel that properly represents Asian-Americans like the way Ms. Marvel represents Pakistani/second generation immigrants (like myself).

Personally, I don't care whether there's an Asian person in whatever I'm reading/watching/playing since, in my experience, they have always been portrayed as a stereotype, most commonly the nerd and the dragon lady stereotype. Also, I don't know if this is sexist or not, but it always bothered me that the ratio between female and male Asian characters favors the female side by an extreme amount (are there a lot of Asian female comic book readers out there?). At least balance the scale a bit more. Amadeus Cho is the only male Asian character I can think of that doesn't suck. The Iron Fist would have been a great Asian superhero but, he's white.

Other than this bit, I agree with pretty much everything you have to say along with @mcklayn, @hawk2916, @koays, and @sprior93's posts.

Yay

Well, of course!! How dare Marvel worry about story telling or interesting new ideas when there is people feeling oppressed or under represented and sheet. Don't they realize they have to cater to your every whim?? I mean, you could probably totally identify with homosexual characters like Karma because you were an immigrant who ran from a war torn Vietnam and had a very evil twin brother, right??

How did you know?!

@cattlebattle: also, why would there be Asians in space? Asia is on Earth. And Russians are Asian.

I hate when people try to say black or white or Asian, it doesn't mean anything lol.

Edit: Dr. Light was Asian since the 1980s. I do think certain characters have been absorbed by white people though. Batman's and Arrows training by asian mercenary groups, as well as Iron Fist and his chi training. Even Dr. Doom studied in Asia. All of them are white though

Kewl. Osome. BAMF.

What is Buzzfeed? L_L

@adamtrmm: Lol its a website that takes a very left wing liberal stance in its articles that are mostly written by college kidskids. You either swear by it, at it or completely ignore it depending on your political stance and or the quality of the article.

@koays:

This specific article didn't feel too pushy or preachy, but I'll know better next time lol thanks for the info

As for the subject of discussion, to me @cattlebattle nailed it pretty much perfectly, Claremont reflected naturally what was just part of his creativity and passion, and looking at what we have now I think it even evaluates his effort drastically to not just being ahead of his time, but also doing this before it was a trend. I think the lesson every upcoming X-writer has to learn from that is to be creative and try to explore new dimensions, instead of "catching the right trend" because that's not what made CC to be successful.

I stopped reading at 36 because of the horrible and offensive opinions. But Buzzfeed isn't real journalism, so I'm not THAT mad.

It's sad that we live in a world where liberals are considered evil and pushing for diversity is some sort of malevolent agenda at the most or annoying and troublesome in the least *sigh*

Anyway, big ups to my favorite superhero team for being #1

@adamtrmm: Very well said. Stop trying to cash in on peoples struggles and stop trying to catch the trend. Be creative and original

What sad is people can't express their opinions freely without someone getting all..... Whatever. 1st amendment people!!!

Lol wait....the idea that Buzzfeed is 1) a accurate representation of Liberal ideals and 2) not liking them means that you think liberals are evil.... is kind of insulting for those of us who are liberal but don't think everyone who votes in a different light is evil.

No one said diversity is bad, no one said it was wrong to be diverse in your work. I'm still trying to find where anyone implied that every diverse work is only diverse because of affirmative action (though my fault for using a trigger word).

I think the points being discussed here were more that this idea that everyone needs to wear their "equality shades" (that only judge something based on how many groups it includes) when reviewing a work isnt OK. And when a company announces very publicly that there's a gay marriage/all female team/ all black team in there books during periods when these issues are hot button, it may not be for the most altruistic reasons.

As an Upper East Coaster (and yes I am using disclaimers to inforce my point) supporting diversity is second nature, but the idea that Emma Stone is cited for being White washed into a cast for a movie that clearly garnered more attention because of her recognition and not her race. While Michael B. Jordan becoming the Human Torch despite Sue Storm not being black is something considered diverse despite creating more questions and necessitating more change within a already shoddy plot is something considered a step forward.....well that's a problem.