#1 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

In X-men, Rachel have been giving orders and not doing the leg works. She's doing quite well in leading though. I didnt know that her telepathy could reach lengths of different countries. Does this mean that she is now 2nd in command or their acting leader?

#2 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

Storm's probably top dog, but Rachel is the telepath, meaning even if she's not coming up with the orders herself, she's handing them out to the relevant parties.

#3 Posted by HAWK2916 (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

Im just glad shes not in limbo and getting some time. Hopefully she gets even more

#4 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916: yeah, I really wish she'd get to do more than give orders. I hope she gets to fight the sisterhood with jubilee. I'm starting to like M too

#5 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3449 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope she becomes the leader; she seems like a natural and I prefer her in this position in comparison to the other members. I've picked this comic up a few times and was glad to see her and M getting some time.

#6 Posted by Koays (1212 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's been implied that she's the strongest telepath left since AvX, but Woods had weirdness with Rouge's powers too....Oh well, Rachel could have her powerset changed to lawnsculpting and I'd be happy there using her for more then a walking Cerebro

#7 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

M was supposed to be on a break and why arent they mourning the death of Rogue?

#8 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3449 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix: Because the current writing team doesn't care about continuity or consistent characterization.

#9 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

Rachel doesnt like using cerebro. I guess she doesnt really need to use it and I guess she is the strongest telepath now

#10 Edited by Koays (1212 posts) - - Show Bio

M was supposed to be on a break and why arent they mourning the death of Rogue?

The arc isn't over. Maybe it hasn't happened yet as far as the story is concerned. I mean she's teaming up with Avengers A.I. next week and she "died" 2 months ago. Plus time travel shenanigans are next in Uncanny Avengers so it may not even have really happened.

#11 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

avengers... i just hate them. They keep screwing up the x-men

#12 Posted by XsPectre28 (714 posts) - - Show Bio

Rachel is an Omega level Mutant. her telepathy is very powerful, only reason a telepath like emmma was able to defeat her in the past was her lack of control/training in the use of her telepathy. she was always more at easy with/displaying her telekinesis.

#13 Posted by CYCLOPS_WAS_RIGHT (28 posts) - - Show Bio

Rachel SUMMERS

She was born to be a leader

#14 Edited by Koays (1212 posts) - - Show Bio

Between her projecting her mind across space at the end of Age of X and reading off the actions of everyone on the planet without cerebro in order to find the hell fire club....I believe Rachel may have the strongest telepathic feets we've seen in a long time

#15 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

Enjoying Wood's Rachel and am looking forward to where he plans on traveling with character.

#16 Posted by HAWK2916 (1584 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Edited by Experio (14100 posts) - - Show Bio

Storms the boss.

#18 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916: I love storm but I think she needs to step down a bit and do something about her personal life, broken marriage. My respect for her started to crumble when she joined the Avengers.

I really do think Rachel would be a good leader and I hope that being a leader wont make her stay at home giving commands. I want to see her in action

#19 Posted by HAWK2916 (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix: I like Rachel as well but I dont think Storm should step down. I think Storm is a good leader. Though the headmistress of the school and that whole concept has soured on me a little. However I do want Rachel leading a team in some capacity. I actually liked Storm's idea of the X.S.E. In fact, though it may be seen as a travesty by some, I would have her reincarnate that idea for an X-team possibly even leading Xfactor ( of course the corporate idea though in its infancy and even with PAD writing would have to be thrown out of the window). Then let Rachel lead a New Xmen team protecting and training mutants.

#20 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916: what does XSE stand for? sorry i dont know

#21 Posted by HAWK2916 (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

If I'm not mistake it stood for Xtreme Sanctions Executive.

#22 Posted by numi (187 posts) - - Show Bio

I would still enjoy a scrap between Rachel and Ororo, but maybe that's the male in me thinking about the fight to see who is the top dog. I know that traditionally Rachel hasn't been a leader so this feels like character development to me, that she's starting to assert herself more though I'd like to see it come out with a good reason why. On an all male team I could see there being a fight followed by the two worn out members talking about why the former junior wants to take control and what they're going to do about it. Not sure it works with an all female group... *shrugs*

#23 Edited by devilsgrin81 (535 posts) - - Show Bio

@numi said:

I would still enjoy a scrap between Rachel and Ororo, but maybe that's the male in me thinking about the fight to see who is the top dog. I know that traditionally Rachel hasn't been a leader so this feels like character development to me, that she's starting to assert herself more though I'd like to see it come out with a good reason why. On an all male team I could see there being a fight followed by the two worn out members talking about why the former junior wants to take control and what they're going to do about it. Not sure it works with an all female group... *shrugs*

i'm loving the tension between Ororo and Rachel. There was a fantastic line from Storm during one of their little tiffs about Karima... where Storm essentially says "you couldn't stop me" if Rachel tried. This could be the most epic ex-friend showdown ever. Its like Cyclops vs Wolverine all over again. Oddly enough with Storm in Cyclops' place and Rachel in Logan's. It would also be a spectacular throwdown. Storm would own her phsyically - thats a given. But powers... wow talk about clash of the titans. Tk vs Ak... telepathy is basically out since Storm can block it fairly easily...

#24 Posted by numi (187 posts) - - Show Bio

@numi said:

I would still enjoy a scrap between Rachel and Ororo, but maybe that's the male in me thinking about the fight to see who is the top dog. I know that traditionally Rachel hasn't been a leader so this feels like character development to me, that she's starting to assert herself more though I'd like to see it come out with a good reason why. On an all male team I could see there being a fight followed by the two worn out members talking about why the former junior wants to take control and what they're going to do about it. Not sure it works with an all female group... *shrugs*

i'm loving the tension between Ororo and Rachel. There was a fantastic line from Storm during one of their little tiffs about Karima... where Storm essentially says "you couldn't stop me" if Rachel tried. This could be the most epic ex-friend showdown ever. Its like Cyclops vs Wolverine all over again. Oddly enough with Storm in Cyclops' place and Rachel in Logan's. It would also be a spectacular throwdown. Storm would own her phsyically - thats a given. But powers... wow talk about clash of the titans. Tk vs Ak... telepathy is basically out since Storm can block it fairly easily...

How can she block telepathy easily? I mean, if Rachel is contacting minds on the other side of the planet at this point, seems like she doesn't even need to have line of sight on her. Or has she somehow developed an immunity to telepathy?

#25 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

@numi: This is a tricky one. Ororo's track-record clearly proves her penchant for nigh resistance to telepathic attack which stems from her desire to retain and maintain absolute control at all times and so she's often shunted mental assaults from the most powerful of psionics on Earth. However, both her and Rachel experienced what one would call "The Ultimate Intimacy" a while back which dissipates the final verdict as that occurrence could have factored in on Storm's resistance to Rachel's telepathy and she's awfully strong herself, in that regard. But in the same story, Rachel attempted to reach the cerebral processors of Storm's mind in order to wrest complete control over her mind and body, but Storm prevented access.

The fight went on for two days and Ororo never gave in.

#26 Edited by numi (187 posts) - - Show Bio

@numi: This is a tricky one. Ororo's track-record clearly proves her penchant for nigh resistance to telepathic attack which stems from her desire to retain and maintain absolute control at all times and so she's often shunted mental assaults from the most powerful of psionics on Earth. However, both her and Rachel experienced what one would call "The Ultimate Intimacy" a while back which dissipates the final verdict as that occurrence could have factored in on Storm's resistance to Rachel's telepathy and she's awfully strong herself, in that regard. But in the same story, Rachel attempted to reach the cerebral processors of Storm's mind in order to wrest complete control over her mind and body, but Storm prevented access.

The fight went on for two days and Ororo never gave in.

Hrm, under that same reasoning, Cyclops should have almost complete immunity to telepathy as well. Though I suppose they have to start giving people some way to resist as the telepaths start taking over and we have more and more of them running about.

#27 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Edited by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, sttorm or cyclops may be able to resist mind control or telepathic manipulation. How about PSI BOLTS? Can they resist being stunned by psi bolts? I dont think anyone without telepathic powers can withstand psi-blades or psi-bolts. I think this battle goes to Rachel.

#29 Edited by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

there was a time when Rachel went berzerk and threw psychic bolts on the x-men when she learned that jean died. I think everyone went down including storm, except xavier, X said that her psi-bolts are as strong as his. That was the time when rachel was weak and just time leaped from the days of the future past era. I think her tp is way a lot stronger than before.

#30 Posted by devilsgrin81 (535 posts) - - Show Bio

there was a time when Rachel went berzerk and threw psychic bolts on the x-men when she learned that jean died. I think everyone went down including storm, except xavier, X said that her psi-bolts are as strong as his. That was the time when rachel was weak and just time leaped from the days of the future past era. I think her tp is way a lot stronger than before.

on the contrary, i think Rachel is much less formidable than then. She no longer possesses any element of the Phoenix's power, which she did from the get-go. She's still got her omega level power potential. But i honestly don't think she has the extra oomph that made her the epic-level heavy hitter she used to be. She's not flying into the vacuum of space and annihillating shi'ar ships anymore.

I believe Storm when she says Rachel couldn't stop her. I think that's the biggest factor. Storm knows she'll win. Rachel might think she can. Storm knows.

#31 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (9981 posts) - - Show Bio

there was a time when Rachel went berzerk and threw psychic bolts on the x-men when she learned that jean died. I think everyone went down including storm, except xavier, X said that her psi-bolts are as strong as his. That was the time when rachel was weak and just time leaped from the days of the future past era. I think her tp is way a lot stronger than before.

What issue was this? And did Rachel have the PF?

#32 Posted by devilsgrin81 (535 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix said:

there was a time when Rachel went berzerk and threw psychic bolts on the x-men when she learned that jean died. I think everyone went down including storm, except xavier, X said that her psi-bolts are as strong as his. That was the time when rachel was weak and just time leaped from the days of the future past era. I think her tp is way a lot stronger than before.

What issue was this? And did Rachel have the PF?

it could only have been during either the 80s when she first appeared, or when she was rescued by Storm and Sage from telepathic slavery to Elias Bogan. Both of which would have included Phoenix power.

#33 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

No Phoenix power here

#34 Edited by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

So who is her real father ? Hank or Logan ? I think it's Hank.

#35 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3449 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

@phoenixofthetides: you like her over Storm as a leader?

Yes. But unlike some readers, I don't mind other team members being leaders. It gets boring having the same few characters be team leaders all the time and it gives other characters a chance to get some of the spotlight & add Mary Su/Marty Stu elements to their bag of feats.

#36 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

@phoenixofthetides: yes i like the idea of other members taking on the leadership position. I think Rogue did a good job in leading the x-men space mission. I'd like to see iceman or cannonball lead a team too

#37 Posted by numi (187 posts) - - Show Bio

So who is her real father ? Hank or Logan ? I think it's Hank.

Neither.

#38 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Edited by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

HAHAHA yeah I know, I was just messing around. Thought I could turn this into one of those gigantic anti-Scott arguments like they have on CBR forums lol.

#40 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont have anything against beast, I just don't like him to be rachel's father.

I just realized 05 jean is more liberated and wild than the past jean. She went for size(beast) than looks(scott).

I can't imagine how she'd be able to walk after their first sex. lol

#41 Edited by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix said:

i dont have anything against beast, I just don't like him to be rachel's father.

I just realized 05 jean is more liberated and wild than the past jean. She went for size(beast) than looks(scott).

I can't imagine how she'd be able to walk after their first sex. lol

Ugh. Bendis gonna make Jean/Beast happen lol.

#42 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

They were still together in the BOTA future

#43 Edited by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix said:

They were still together in the BOTA future

Yeah. But as a team, not as lovers lol. That is disgusting...

#44 Posted by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: I know. Jean could have gone for angel who looks a lot better than scott and beast, Bobby who is a lot funner than scott and beast. I really think our new o5 jean is a size queen. lol

#45 Edited by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix:

lol I hope she gets back with Scott by the end of the Trial, but it's Bendis, so I don't exactly have high hopes...

#46 Posted by HAWK2916 (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

Right now, I would like to see Rachel go and join Cyclops team. She would fill the role that supposedly Storm had on the extinction team, that of looking out for Scott and keeping him in check. She would also be pretty formidable in combat situations with her telekinesis and telepathy and basically looking at the range of her powers.

#47 Edited by THUNDERBOLT30 (9981 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilsgrin81 said:

@thunderbolt30 said:

@darthphoenix said:

there was a time when Rachel went berzerk and threw psychic bolts on the x-men when she learned that jean died. I think everyone went down including storm, except xavier, X said that her psi-bolts are as strong as his. That was the time when rachel was weak and just time leaped from the days of the future past era. I think her tp is way a lot stronger than before.

What issue was this? And did Rachel have the PF?

it could only have been during either the 80s when she first appeared, or when she was rescued by Storm and Sage from telepathic slavery to Elias Bogan. Both of which would have included Phoenix power.

Ah thanks. And the scan clarifies the context of what happened a bit more. They all look surprised vs KO'd. I was thinking it was a combat situation where they were fighting vs getting attacked unprepared/guard down.

#48 Edited by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2767 posts) - - Show Bio

M was supposed to be on a break and why arent they mourning the death of Rogue?

because Rogue will be back?

#49 Edited by darthphoenix (652 posts) - - Show Bio

@thunderbolt30: what?! upper pane shows the x-men in pain. Storm can be resistant to telepathic manipulation but she's definitely not immune to psi-bolts. She was rendered unconcious by xorn on BOTA.

#50 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (9981 posts) - - Show Bio

@thunderbolt30: what?! upper pane shows the x-men in pain. Storm can be resistant to telepathic manipulation but she's definitely not immune to psi-bolts. She was rendered unconcious by xorn on BOTA.

I never said Storm was immune, so please don't put words in my mouth or stipulate points that are baseless. Storm doesn't need to be immune to psi-bolts to defend against it or to be able to beat Rachel if they fought. I think a fight between them could go either way.

I know psi-bolts can effect Storm, but both the examples you are giving are surprise attacks, and no knew (even Xavier) it was coming. Storm has shown that, when she was ready for it, she can scramble incoming psychic energy with her powers quite effectively.

For example, when Rachel was under the influence of the Hauk'ka and tried to reach Storm's mind telepathically Ororo generated a lightning field around her that scrambled Rachel's incoming psychic energy. Rachel had to get closer so her powers could get through the field and she needed help to be anchored against Storm's winds so she could concentrate her powers enough to be effective. And even she stated on panel that another few moments and there would have been nothing that she could do to stop Storm. Psi-bolts are the same form of energy that Storm was able to effectively counter, so I don't see why it would not be subject to the same counter.

You stated that "everyone went down" but didn't give any context to the circumstances, and that initially gave me the impression they were KO'd in a fight. Not stating that you were attempting to mislead in your comments but that was the impression your post gave me until you posted the scan. The psychic feedback projected from Rachel screaming NO caught everyone by surprise and I see the look of pain on their faces, but they were simply stunned by it (which you mentioned above). And in BotA neither Storm or any of the present day X-Men/O5 knew of the attack and didn't have their guard up to defend against the attack, which would make a difference if they, at least for those who have shown defenses to psychic attacks, knew it was coming.

I don't want to derail this thread so I am fine if you want to discuss this further in a PM.