Why I hate the X-Men

Exactly! people keep missing that and just want to believe the X-men can work in the Marvel U. which of course they can't. Which is why they are better served in another universe separate from the Marvel U. that way we won't have such pointless hero vs hero fights between the Avengers and X-men fighting over something as pointless as ideology and terrible OOC moments. Everyone wins X-fans get have the X-men secluded from everything Marvel and the Marvel U. no longer has to be written OOC to make the X-men look like the victim.

Ha, don't get me wrong, I don't want them to be divided, I want them to integrate! I just don't like the way mutants are separated for most of the time from the world around, because when they do appear in events it feels much more natural and interesting. It annoys me they're (mutants, x-men) avoided for some reason that is beyond me and this is how it goes for like 40 years and today they're more segregated then ever. Where's progress, where's the natural evolution of events for all of the Marvelverse? It don't know, that's how I feel. And I don't see there are writers that understand the X-verse the way I do, so it'll be interesting for me.

Hmm I liked them a lot more before All-new X-men. Now every time I see one of them I remember the two scenes when Jean Grey took over Angel and I just can't really be on their side anymore. Hell Cyclops seems more reasonable and he is a murderer.Magneto hangs out with his best friends murderer for kicks. Wolverine is useless and far from the bad ass I thought he was, Kitty Pride is unable to inspire basic morals in the new x-men and all other characters are basically superfluous. I'm just not digging it, I don't have anyone to root for.

This.

And definitely this. The X-Men concept just falls apart when they are mixed with the rest of the Marvel Universe. Especially considering that some of the other superheroes actively sought their powers and are more complicit in wanting to possess superhuman powers.

I don't hate the X-Men - too many childhood memories and fond nostalgia for some of the characters. But as I grew up and started to look for better stories, I was just finding myself bored with the mainstays of the team.

Perhaps we can do a petition to force Marvel to separate the X-men from the Marvel U. Marvel is already trying to push the Inhumans as the new hated and feared since Marvel can't use the X-mthos. The X-men will most likely get a soft reboot to explain why their no longer part of the Marvel U. but it will all be worth it for both sides.

They've worked just fine for the last 50 years, so I dunno what you're basing that on.

nobody wins in your scenario, everyone loses. The only real change would be less story potential, and for what? for a scenario where absolutely nothing is gained? why would anyone ever advocate a change in which they could only ever be a loser?

So you Hate tHe X-Men because tHeir pure awesomeness. It is understandable.

-ABstract4$$#073-

Yeah, OP based his opinion mostly on this stupid Rogue/SW dispute, where Remender clearly wanted SW's opinion look better and more well-argued, he wanted the Scarlet Witch look better in a mutant\human affair dispute! what a failure.

@adamtrmm: Agreed horribly written by someone who's better off writing Black Op titles, the sooner this title is cancelled everything will go back to the way it should be with both teams not giving a crap about the others fate.

What do you mean the X-men can still have a storyline of winning the public over. Their just better off written out of the Marvel U. in a separate title like the Ultimates. True many will be pissed if this happened, but I'd rather the X-men be cut off from the Marvel U. than deal with more crap story's of Avengers vs X-men nonsense. If you don't like it thats your loss, its like you said fans just hate having their peas touch their mashed potatoes.

I can see the complaints with the X-Men more than compared to any other superhero group. It kind of feels old hat sometimes. It's been the same struggle since Claremont revived it decades ago. And some of them whine a lot.

I get humans are supposed to be A-holes and that's why their struggle is so hard, but it's like come on X-Men. They definitely don't make it easier on themselves and they act like attention whores sometimes.

All that said, I still like the X-Men. So I hope nobody hates on me for saying that. But compared to any other team in comics, they definitely are the most "dramatic". Prima donnas. Sometimes it's a bit much.

what I said was that I don't understand why some fans hate that. I don't hate it.

Two of the best stories I read this month were Uncanny Avengers #13 and the The Arms of The Octopus crossover (between Dr.Spiderpus, the Hulk, and the original X-men); In your dream world I wouldn't have been able to read those stories, and for what?

For most marvel comics, X-men and otherwise, it doesn't even matter that the X-men live in the same world as the other characters; and when it does matter, as often as not, it's something cool. Sure, not all stories are good, and not every story is for everyone, but what purpose could ever be served by further limiting the stories that could be told?

The whole idea of humans hate on mutants like some zealots, in a world, that is attacked like everyday, with some intergalactic threat, where a Celestial stands like a statue over Golden Gate Bridge, where an Asgardian Thor and Olympian Hercules are\were well accepted Avengers, is wrong. All this while in the X-books, humans portrayed like complete unreasonable idiots, like they've never seen superpowers and are so afraid of them. Yeah it isn't like every second character this days has a superpower, but only mutants are hated =\ How they can even know who's mutant and who's not.

This is a failure, an there's only two reasons for that: 1. Fans don't allow the story to go on. 2. Writers are too lazy to develop the already good-selling franchise. Choose your answer.

• or, 3. it actually does make sense, in so far as prejudice of mutants is meant to mirror actual prejudices (such as against people's race, sex, orientation, etc) in that it is ultimately arbitrary.
• there's probably more than three possible answers though.

Did I ever mention that I disagree with this "oppressed and misunderstood", "outsiders" and "minority" portrayals? I don't like this "all-tolerance" metaphor, like this is our last problem in the world. As I said, while X-men are stuck in the same story again and again, I see them as a metaphor for so much more then just intolerance, I want them to be a criticism on the whole humankind, and intolerance is not our only flaw. I know that tolerance is a western thing nowadays, but as a non-western human being living in a war zone I can assure you, intolerance is the least worst of our problems. I see them fear mutants because one day they'll replace humans. I see them fear mutants because they ARE superior. And I can continue this list (though, one thing I'll never understand - how are mutants more hated then other super-beings). This conflict is so much more complicated then just intolerance. As I said, the franchise is stuck in what sells best, is this the only important issue? Now, it's even worse, they fight themselves. BOTA, is this the X-men you love?

I'd like to hear your thoughts..

I'm just saying, they can do what you're suggesting and represent the same message they always have. They can do both, it's not like there's ever only one X-men story being told. The way they represent arbitrary intolerance is underlined by the idea that they live in a shared universe, is what I mean, but it's not like it's the only element of their stories that can be accentuated by it.

Personally, I'm always for more variety in the kinds of stories they use the X-men in. My point is that taking them out of that context of a shared universe can ultimately only limit the stories they can tell.

Like I say, I can enjoy many different types of X-men stories. I'm not saying that the current crossover is my favorite, but I have enjoyed the issues I've read. Is that what I want the X-men to be? not particularly, but I'm enjoying it, and as you seem to be pointing out, I wouldn't want all of the stories to be about the same thing either.

Like I said before, I don't want them to be separated from the Main-verse, and that's the problem, when many feel they don't belong there. Why? Because the way they're portrayed, and every X-reader knows what is this way =) I just can't accept that my favorite franchise, that has a potential to become something even much more, is repeating itself! I can't accept Wolverine as a Xavier's protege, I don't accept "biggest X-men event" like BOTA, this is a joke. These writers made my favorite X-men a joke! I don't mind fun, Curse of the Mutants was kinda fun, issues where characters hang out and have some good written dialogues and disputes are always welcomed. But not future, present, past, future past, present tomorrow X-men that fight each other, this is not serious (yes, yes - this a comic book, but X-mythos represents some very serious issues). What's next? Inter-dimensional X-men event? I just was so excited when Cyclops was developed into a complicated, beyond boy-scout character, and people actually believed in his cause, not as a interesting villain, but as new type of character that does what he believes in, while people can agree or disagree with him, and it's OK. I felt like the era of character development I waited for so long, was about to begin. Not a generic hero\villain stories, where another great and complicated character like Magneto is forced to be a villain just because somebody has to, but another era, where there is more then black and white, where shades of grey will dominate. But, this hope was shattered with BOTA and it is only a matter of time when Cyclops is going to be back a hero again and Magneto will be back a villain, I don't see these people wish for progress for mutant stories. I hope I'm wrong, but that's how I feel.

I totally empathize with your passion on this subject; I suspect, and hope, that this is just another silly anniversary crossover. In a month or so it will all be over and the books can get back to telling their own stories; in my experience, this is just the natural ebb and flow of the genre: for every great -or even good- X-men story there will be several of little to no consequence, and just as many crossovers.

And I get how it can be hard to see the X-men as equally serious and relevant and, just as often, silly and contrived, but that's the nature of the beast. Ultimately, the X-men are both as inspiring and as frustrating as real people can be, which, to me, is actually a large part of the appeal.

Hopefully, as you say, they will have the guts to not just have the characters revert to type. It's the same thing that frustrated me so much about the X-men in the early 90's; the reformed villain who had become an actual inspiration going evil again, the guy who had walked out on his wife and child being regarded as a goody-two-shoes, all to register as recognizable and, as you say, ultimately keep the story from progressing in an organic way. It is frustrating, but there have been several great X-men stories since then, and I still hold out hope there can be more, despite the contrivances of the genre.

I guess at this point, personally, I've just learned to love the inanity as much as the greatness, though i can obviously appreciate how that's not everyone's cup of tea.

Will wait for the BOTA's end, and what Bendis will do with Uncanny, he wasn't doing very much until now and it was very slow book, but it was OK. I like that he made regular humans support Cyclops, finally this made some sense, but it's too early to judge. Hell, if I'm right I may be finding myself forgive him this BOTA, haha :)

That's exactly it! Fans were so passionate about to bring Jean Grey back, they didn't even care for what's already going on. As I read, Claremont's intentions were to make Madelyne Pryor an actual, separate human being that just resembled Jean, he was forced to make her what she is and vilified her because he had to, because editors or publishers or I don't-know-what-people-above-him told him to. I guess because of countless letters (God bless internet!) they received with some kind of "bring JG back" petitions. I can't get it, why to cheapen her death? Why make one of the greatest X-stories look unimportant? All because some fans want to keep their favorite "toys" close to them? Even when it costs some characters their face, but they don't care. U-men, some fans are U-men. :)

I will admit the whole "no one likes us cause we're mutants, waaah!" Thing gets old. It's been like 40 years of the same old metaphor.

More than once I've seen someone say that anti-mutant discrimination is justified (because they're genuinely dangerous).

@adamtrmm: exactly. on both points; you know what's up, you just have the passion of a kid -a crazy powerful combination :v

and to this i agree. send out the petition.

but i think the x-men are great as long as marvel isn't forcing pro-avengers propaganda down readers throats.

Hah, I wish! I'm in my 20's and after 3 year military service.

Then what is the base of your desire to split them? I mean they were only only "bitching" about Avengers in AVX, and that's a bad title to base your opinion on.

Then why did you title it that?

This is always a valid concern with the X-Men. The "strangeness" of the x-men really isn't played up enough. Mutants should look like monsters, or the theme doesn't work in a universe with so many superpowers. Some proposed redesigns have done this a bit more, some newer characters embrace this aspect (Morrison's New X-Men students were much better at this), and the Marvelstitle did a good job of always drawing the original X-Men in a creepy light even with their normal appearance. It can be handled, but presentation is important.

Here are some decent redesigns that try to "strange up" the X-Men a bit more:

Aaron Diaz's redesign/proposal:

Nate Bellegarde's redesign/proposal:

And probably the best example, Anjin Anhut's redesign/proposal:

I wouldn't put much stock in the characterizations in Uncanny Avengers, which doesn't really do a good job as an allegory for race politics what with Alex Summers "yay assimilation" speech. As for the rest, the tearing down of Xavier by showing him doing wrong in the background has been a common way for writers to try and do something new with the property. It started as far back as his relationship with Legion, and probably reached its peak with the introduction of Vulcan. It's hard to write a saintly protagonist and keep it dramatic, that's all that's about.

Just venting:

Certain editorial decisions with the X-Men are especially annoying to me, which caused me to basically drop the book and spend my adult $$$ elsewhere:

1. The replacement/abandonment of the New Mutants as the next team of X-Men or the next generation of mutant leaders. "Generation X" and the "new" "New Mutants" in the '00s both got culled in a similar way, but at least the "New Mutants" were kept around in some force in "X-Force" (which I hated, since the idea of the X-Men hanging out in a palatial mansion while their students were co-opted by a terrorist just tarnishes the brand, despite how "kew!" it seems).
2. Jean Grey stays dead, despite being the one character that has the most story-appropriate reason to come back while every more action-oriented X-Man has "died" and then come back or been revealed to have been faking their death multiple times. Meanwhile, Marvel teases her return, cashes in on her character through the Phoenix story line ad nauseum, and in general treats her as if there was no character development between multiple eras of her presence on the team sans Phoenix. Despicable treatment. I didn't think Marvel would invest themselves so heavily in distorting a character until Scarlet Witch got the same treatment in "Avengers".
3. Demonizing Professor X to the extent that he went from being easier to relate to as a result of his flaws, to seeming just as bad as Cable, Magneto and the villains they fought.
4. The sheer inability to do anything interesting with Wolverine that is consistent. His back story works. We get that it allows him to constantly be reinvented to a certain point, and many great writers took what could be a pile of retcons, ran with them and made them supremely interesting. Ironically, I liked Logan more in the '70s and '80s story line - he is neither completely a samurai nor is he as gruff as he appears: he's more relatable as someone who likes a good barroom brawl, doesn't mind getting knocked around and has an issue with authority figures. Making him an authority figure, making him a member of an older X-Men team, allowing him to remember everything about his past...these just kill aspects of his personality that are the coolest. And going to an intergalactic casino to earn money for his school was one of the lamest things I read in years.

The x-men are as relevant now as they were in the 70's and arguably even more so now with the supreme court gutting the voting rights act and certain politicians seeking to curb minority representation in the election process.

There are politicians out there that build their power base by sustaining the hate and fear in their constituents and perpetuating the idea that certain classes and races are inherently violent and dangerous even though there is scientific and historic evidence to the contrary.

People may say the x-men are a bunch of whiny crybabies because the writer has them call out the bigotry and hypocrisy in the MU but you can see the same thing in forums when people call out overt cases of racism and people that have probably never had to deal with it just dismiss it as dramatics.

Mutants are hated because there are people that view them as inherently dangerous, they're sub-human abominations, unclean and the spawn of satan. They're afraid of the minority becoming a majority they don't want their sons and daughters to bring one home for dinner.

It draws a strong parallel to the real world and even though the writers may sometimes stray from the original intent and misrepresent our favorite characters at times, the message is whats important. It points a spotlight toward the ugly side of human nature and the ultimate realization that social constructs are as arbitrary as we make them.

Nope, still want the X-men and their whole mythos in a separate universe ala Heroes reborn style. They fight and kill humans to their hearts content with no MU heroes having to interfere and fans of the Marvel U. don't have to bother about wondering why mutants are hated and super humans are not hated as much.

@tigerkaya:

1. You're entitled to wish for whatever you want; never gonna happen tho.

2. The x-men aren't about fighting and killing humans, they're fu@&ing heroes, they've saved the world as many times as the FF and the avengers and they'll continue to do so because it's their world too.

3. There's nothing deep about understanding prejudice in the MU; there's no logic to it in the real world, why should it be any different in the comics?

Actually, there is. For many, many people X-men are, a comic-book metaphor for prejudice of any kind.

@brokenspear: Agree to disagree than.

As to

"3. There's nothing deep about understanding prejudice in the MU; there's no logic to it in the real world, why should it be any different in the comics?"

Except that message only works in the whole mutants and humans but add in subhumans where humans cheer them on kinda defeats the purpose of the whole mutants being feared. I would like it if they showed another side of humans that actually defended mutant rights but with X-writers it seems to be a one sided hate. So why bother truing justify it when you can easily make the X-men mythos much easier to comprehend to live outside the Marvel U. in their own universe. Where the core concept of mutant prejudice is much stronger without the presence of super humans.

They're not meant to be disguises anymore. they're meant express each mutants unique style. at the same time they serve as uniforms, letting the evil bitches know whats up.

lol this

Agreed. Mutants are hunted and killed by groups like The Purifiers,yet no one does anything about it.

The hate and bigotry that mutants face is a HUGE part of their franchise,so to say that someone is tired of the complaining from them is the stupidest f*cking thing I have ever heard in my life. They might as well say the same thing to any group that faces the same in real life. They have a RIGHT to complain,especially when their civil rights and liberties aren't even addressed,even when they fight for the safety of all life,whether it be human,mutant,alien,etc.

But hey,something I learned from comic fans nowadays is that they don't want these type of things in their books,they just want idiotic fighting and action. And I hate how people are using AvX to support their argument. Apparently they didn't get the memo that AvX was full of crap and it is seen as idiotic to the entire comic book community in every possible way. It's full of bad writing.

Exactly. AvX is full of stupidity and bad writing. I can't even call that the X-men

@bababoom said:

@waezi2 said:

You see? Rouge is so busy with complaining that she doesn't listen to other opinions long enough to give an intelligent answer. THAT is what Uncanny Avengers need to be a good book: intelligent mutants, besides Alex Summers. And how come the mutants are so pissed at Alex for saying that he doesn't like the "M-word"? All he says is that he want to be looked at like a person, THEN a mutant. Like the most of you, who have a "color"(stupid word) want to be looked at as a person first, and THEN as a part of a culture. In fact, I'm pretty sure that what Alex said is what Professor X dream is all about.

There are those who believe that to end racism one has to stop classifying people by their race and forget about any racial things that go with it but, there are those who believe that forgetting one's race/ethnicity/nationality/group is to forget one's identity. Which is discussed in All-new X-men when Kitty Pryde wants people to know her as both Jewish and Mutant. She wants people to see her as what she is and doesn't want to pretend to be anything other. Being seen as a person first is indeed a good thing but, in Havok's speech he made the word mutant seem derogatory and that can be seen as a negative. Calling mutant the "m-word" is similar to making the term black/asian/white/etc. into an insult or at least an offensive word to call someone. The X-Men is all about living an equal co-existence between regular humans and mutants and Havok's speech imply that the only way to co-exist peacefully with regular humans is to assimilate into their society and forget about being mutants. The latter goes against what the X-Men believes in.

While I'm here, if you didn't already notice, in the scan you are showing. Rouge is representing the "uncorrupted (for lack of a better word)" mutant. Meaning that she is symbolizing a minority that is proud of her heritage and wouldn't do anything to either deny or hide it. On the other hand, Scarlet Witch is representing the "whitewashed (again, for lack of a better word)" mutant. Meaning that she is symbolizing a minority that has seen the flaws of her heritage, or is ashamed of it, and tries hard to be just like the culture surrounding her. (Just for those who hadn't noticed yet.)

This is one of those topics that is hard to talk about. The subject of race can be seen in so many ways by so many people. As a non-white immigrant in the USA, I see this subject in a completely different manner as opposed to someone who has a background that is completely opposite to mine. Making me able to talk about topics like this; however, is why I love the X-Men.

agreed

Anyone read the new Amazing X-men?

@waezi2:

You said you hate the X-men because of what they are instead of what they could be, and what is this "could be" are you talking about?

I did; thought it was great:

amazing-x-men-1-my-thoughts-on

@limitlesspower said:

@bababoom said:

@waezi2 said:

You see? Rouge is so busy with complaining that she doesn't listen to other opinions long enough to give an intelligent answer. THAT is what Uncanny Avengers need to be a good book: intelligent mutants, besides Alex Summers. And how come the mutants are so pissed at Alex for saying that he doesn't like the "M-word"? All he says is that he want to be looked at like a person, THEN a mutant. Like the most of you, who have a "color"(stupid word) want to be looked at as a person first, and THEN as a part of a culture. In fact, I'm pretty sure that what Alex said is what Professor X dream is all about.

There are those who believe that to end racism one has to stop classifying people by their race and forget about any racial things that go with it but, there are those who believe that forgetting one's race/ethnicity/nationality/group is to forget one's identity. Which is discussed in All-new X-men when Kitty Pryde wants people to know her as both Jewish and Mutant. She wants people to see her as what she is and doesn't want to pretend to be anything other. Being seen as a person first is indeed a good thing but, in Havok's speech he made the word mutant seem derogatory and that can be seen as a negative. Calling mutant the "m-word" is similar to making the term black/asian/white/etc. into an insult or at least an offensive word to call someone. The X-Men is all about living an equal co-existence between regular humans and mutants and Havok's speech imply that the only way to co-exist peacefully with regular humans is to assimilate into their society and forget about being mutants. The latter goes against what the X-Men believes in.

While I'm here, if you didn't already notice, in the scan you are showing. Rouge is representing the "uncorrupted (for lack of a better word)" mutant. Meaning that she is symbolizing a minority that is proud of her heritage and wouldn't do anything to either deny or hide it. On the other hand, Scarlet Witch is representing the "whitewashed (again, for lack of a better word)" mutant. Meaning that she is symbolizing a minority that has seen the flaws of her heritage, or is ashamed of it, and tries hard to be just like the culture surrounding her. (Just for those who hadn't noticed yet.)

This is one of those topics that is hard to talk about. The subject of race can be seen in so many ways by so many people. As a non-white immigrant in the USA, I see this subject in a completely different manner as opposed to someone who has a background that is completely opposite to mine. Making me able to talk about topics like this; however, is why I love the X-Men.

agreed

powerful