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#1 Edited by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio

... That might be a bad title, now I think about it. I don't hate the X-Men as a CONCEPT. I like the movies, and one of my favorite animated TV-shows are X-Men Evolution. And some of the really good comic I have read are in fact X-Men related(my favorite is Exiles). BUT...

Well, were to start?

First of all, I am not sure that mutants belong in a superhero-universe. There is a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense. Like, how come the FF are loved, but mutants are bad? And so on and so on.

But its more than that.

Like, If the mutants want to be treated like equals, why do they walk around in costumes? Look, lets just say, for the sake of the argument, that a self-authorized team, who take care of "mutant businesses" with high-tech plains and what-not, is a good idea. WHY do they wear superhero costumes? If they alienate themselves from humanity, the chances of getting less feared and hated are smaller than my collection of Youngblood comics(I have none). A uniform is one thing, but COME ON!

And is it just me, or are the X just a tiny little bit... well... hypocrite? I mean, just look a Xavier. He claims that not all mutant will abuse there powers, if they are right guided, so in theory, a mutant aren't that much more dangerous than anyone else, beside that they need more help and education. HE ABUSE HIS POWER!!! How come nobody talks about the Cerebro? HE scans peoples mind, THAT is abuse of power. Its not like he thinks about this. Its just; Oh, I need information, I must go to the Cerebro. And he hired Mystique to do some of his dirty(and very illegal) work. Oh, wait, HE DIDN'T! He kidnapped her from the authorizes and threatened her with getting her back in the electric chair, if she didn't follow orders. And he lot Emma FLIPPING Frost join the X-Men. She is flipping evil, and abuse her power even MORE than him.

And what was the whole idea about the island?

And dear lord, are they WHINY! Look, one thing is that the talk about there problems, but in the end its just annoying. In fact, the whole A vs X started because Cyclops were busy whining to Cap about how he never helps mutants. In fact, I already made a cement about this in my CI5P about A vs X http://comicsin5panels.blogspot.dk/2013/09/avengers-vs-x-men-in-5-panels.html. Look, I am a white boy with a father from Iran, raised in the ghetto. Do you think THAT was a cakewalk? Oh coarse not, but I do not whine about it, like, for example, in Uncanny Avengers.

You see? Rouge is so busy with complaining that she doesn't listen to other opinions long enough to give an intelligent answer. THAT is what Uncanny Avengers need to be a good book: intelligent mutants, besides Alex Summers. And how come the mutants are so pissed at Alex for saying that he doesn't like the "M-word"? All he says is that he want to be looked at like a person, THEN a mutant. Like the most of you, who have a "color"(stupid word) want to be looked at as a person first, and THEN as a part of a culture. In fact, I'm pretty sure that what Alex said is what Professor X dream is all about.

#2 Edited by BaBaBoom (274 posts) - - Show Bio
@waezi2 said:

You see? Rouge is so busy with complaining that she doesn't listen to other opinions long enough to give an intelligent answer. THAT is what Uncanny Avengers need to be a good book: intelligent mutants, besides Alex Summers. And how come the mutants are so pissed at Alex for saying that he doesn't like the "M-word"? All he says is that he want to be looked at like a person, THEN a mutant. Like the most of you, who have a "color"(stupid word) want to be looked at as a person first, and THEN as a part of a culture. In fact, I'm pretty sure that what Alex said is what Professor X dream is all about.

There are those who believe that to end racism one has to stop classifying people by their race and forget about any racial things that go with it but, there are those who believe that forgetting one's race/ethnicity/nationality/group is to forget one's identity. Which is discussed in All-new X-men when Kitty Pryde wants people to know her as both Jewish and Mutant. She wants people to see her as what she is and doesn't want to pretend to be anything other. Being seen as a person first is indeed a good thing but, in Havok's speech he made the word mutant seem derogatory and that can be seen as a negative. Calling mutant the "m-word" is similar to making the term black/asian/white/etc. into an insult or at least an offensive word to call someone. The X-Men is all about living an equal co-existence between regular humans and mutants and Havok's speech imply that the only way to co-exist peacefully with regular humans is to assimilate into their society and forget about being mutants. The latter goes against what the X-Men believes in.

While I'm here, if you didn't already notice, in the scan you are showing. Rouge is representing the "uncorrupted (for lack of a better word)" mutant. Meaning that she is symbolizing a minority that is proud of her heritage and wouldn't do anything to either deny or hide it. On the other hand, Scarlet Witch is representing the "whitewashed (again, for lack of a better word)" mutant. Meaning that she is symbolizing a minority that has seen the flaws of her heritage, or is ashamed of it, and tries hard to be just like the culture surrounding her. (Just for those who hadn't noticed yet.)

This is one of those topics that is hard to talk about. The subject of race can be seen in so many ways by so many people. As a non-white immigrant in the USA, I see this subject in a completely different manner as opposed to someone who has a background that is completely opposite to mine. Making me able to talk about topics like this; however, is why I love the X-Men.

#3 Posted by lifeofvibe (3430 posts) - - Show Bio

it seems im not the onley one who thougth of this

#4 Edited by cameron83 (6710 posts) - - Show Bio

I greatly disagree...with like,everything.

EDIT:

Well,I might as well explain why I disagree:

First of all, I am not sure that mutants belong in a superhero-universe. There is a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense. Like, how come the FF are loved, but mutants are bad? And so on and so on.

Actually,I think that that is sorta addressed. When Spider man was receiving hate,people branded him as a mutant. I mean,they now know that's not true and love him,but point is:

If people simply suspect you to be a mutant,they will simply hate you because of that. Many Superheroes were suspected of being mutants and it was debunked.

Like, If the mutants want to be treated like equals, why do they walk around in costumes? Look, lets just say, for the sake of the argument, that a self-authorized team, who take care of "mutant businesses" with high-tech plains and what-not, is a good idea. WHY do they were superhero costumes? If they alienate themselves from humanity, the chances of getting less feared and hated are smaller than my collection of Youngblood comics(I have none). A uniform is one thing, but COME ON!

I don't get it...first of all,I don't see why helping others (they help more than just mutants,btw) is a bad idea. Especially so when the world looks at magneto,he isn't the first thing people think of when they think of the word "mutant". And they can wear costumes if they please...Spiderman does it. So does most every Superhero (in Marvel and DC)....so why not? They aren't really treated as equals...every other superhero wears a costume and it's no big deal,they should be able to wear one too if they want. And there are mutants that are not Xmen that get treated like crap,regardless.

Are you telling me that Spider-man can wear a costume,but simply because they are hated and feared by the world that a mutant cannot? That is actually a good example of how they are treated. It's not their fault that they are hated. As said,many don't wear costumes and still get persecuted nonetheless. And If other superheroes can,they should get that exact right as well (which is something they fight for),without being questioned any more or less.

And is it just me, or are the X just a tiny little bit... well... hypocrite? I mean, just look a Xavier. He claims that not all mutant will abuse there powers, if they are right guided, so in theory, a mutant aren't that much more dangerous than anyone else, beside that they need more help and education. HE ABUSE HIS POWER!!! How come nobody talks about the Cerebro? HE scans peoples mind, THAT is abuse of power. Its not like he thinks about this. Its just; Oh, I need information, I must go to the Cerebro. And he hired Mystique to do some of his dirty(and weary illegal) work. Oh, wait, HE DIDN'T! He kidnapped her from the authorizes and threatened her with getting her back in the chair, if she didn't follow orders. And he lot Emma FLIPPING Frost join the X-Men. She is flipping evil, and abuse her power even MORE than him.

So...how does Professor X represent the entire X-men?

Doesn't Cerebro just scan the world for mutants? Even from people who don't know that they are mutants....I think that it only helps to find mutants across the globe

Emma isn't evil..just a snarky (lovable) b!tch. How do they abuse their powers? It's not like they mindwipe people...

And what was the whole idea about the island?

And dear lord, are they WHINY! Look, one thing is that the talk about there problems, but in the end its just annoying. In fact, the whole A vs X started because Cyclops were busy whining to Cap about how he never helps mutants. In fact, I already made a cement about this in my CI5P about A vs X http://www.comicvine.com/profile/waezi2/blog/avengers-vs-x-men-in-5-panels-at-last/92659/. Look, I am a whit boy with a father from Iran, raised in the ghetto. Do you think THAT was a cakewalk? Oh coarse not, but I do not whine about it, like, for example, in Uncanny Avengers.

1. AvX was a widely hated event with a terrible plot.

1.5 I don't get what island you are talking about.

2. Um,mutants face the worst oppression in Marvel. Simply because they are mutants they are hated against by most everyone. I can't believe that it almost sounds as if you are saying,"yeah you face oppression and discrimination,get over it!!"

That sounds like a really dumb thing to say. No offense to you,at all,and I am not calling you dumb,but you make it appear as if,like the Fantastic Four,that they are well-loved by everyone and that they are not discriminated against. You make it seem as if they are respected just as the Avengers are,or that they are well seen as equals.

I don't even know what you mean by whiny....has it ever occured to you that:

  • Perhaps the complaints are because of the great hate that they face. The Fantastic Four doesn't face the same hatred from the public...neither does The Avengers
  • You DO know that the Xmen don't really complain of persecution. Sure they are against it,and they do recognize it,but they don't really complain. Also...again,they face discrimination. Do you just expect them to just ignore it and then "it'll go away"? Perhaps it's simply not right that it happens,especially since it mirrors the discrimination people face in real life. I don't exactly know what you mean by them being "whiny"....It's like the racism that people face today and you saying "well I faced it too,but that doesn't mean that I have to whine about it"... It shouldn't happen. That's all that matters. It's wrong that it happens. Btw,we all face racism and discrimination,but that doesn't make it right. Put simply,it's not right and they don't get treated as equals,which is what they fight for

And again,every race/ethnic group,religious group,gender,etc faces discrimination and such,but that's why we (we,as in people/humans) fight for equality for ALL people. Because it's simply not right.

I mean,every racial/ethnic group faces discrimination,but it's just not right that it happens and it should be stopped.However,with the X-men,it's more directed towards them in the Marvel Universe...

3. I was actually talking to a friend about the issue and even she disagreed with Rogue's anti-equality stance (@lykopis) . But the Xmen are not for this crap. Rogue is coming off from a standpoint that is against equality and acceptance,and instead for one that just causes divides.

You see? Rouge is so busy with complaining that she doesn't listen to other opinions long enough to give an intelligent answer. THAT is what Uncanny Avengers need to be a good book: intelligent mutants, besides Alex Summers. And how come the mutants are so pissed at Alex for saying that he doesn't like the "M-word"? All he says is that he want to be looked at like a person, THEN a mutant. Like the most of you, who have a "color"(stupid word) want to be looked at as a person first, and THEN as a part of a culture. In fact, I'm pretty sure that what Alex said is what Professor am is all about.

There is debate as to whether Alex meant acceptance or assimilation. Scarlet Witch (and I) think that he meant for mutants to be seen as MORE than just mutants,but more importantly,accepted and still recognized as being such. As a black person,I don't want people to pretend as if they don't recognize my skin color,but I don't want to be seen ONLY for that. While it is a part of me,it's not what makes me completely. I agree,that is what Alex wanted...

Rogue and Kitty Pryde and such think that he meant to be ashamed of being a mutant,and that's not

It almost seems as if you don't understand the X-men at all. I mean,you said you did,and I am not saying that you are ignorant of them,but when you actually think about it for a second,all of these actually makes sense.

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#5 Posted by w0nd (2940 posts) - - Show Bio

i use to think like that, but then someone on here who pointed out some people in the real world hate simply because they are ignorant. Their exact statement was with all these star 72 hour weddings, terrorists, rapes, murders, so on and so on, why do people focus on interracial and gay weddings being ridiculous. Gay weddings are outlawed but scumbags can get married for 72 hours no problem then get a divorce?

I really do hate the idea of mutants being feared while accidental metas are loved, but there is no doubt people in today's world would act the same way.

"You see? Rouge is so busy with complaining that she doesn't listen to other opinions long enough to give an intelligent answer. THAT is what Uncanny Avengers need to be a good book: intelligent mutants, besides Alex Summers. And how come the mutants are so pissed at Alex for saying that he doesn't like the "M-word"? All he says is that he want to be looked at like a person, THEN a mutant. Like the most of you, who have a "color"(stupid word) want to be looked at as a person first, and THEN as a part of a culture. In fact, I'm pretty sure that what Alex said is what Professor X dream is all about."

also this part is quite interesting because i know a lot of people who want to be known as a proud BLACK woman or a strong BLACK man, where as i don't give a crap about what color I am i just want people to like me for being a good person. Once again there are people out there who would 100% think and act like rouge. You think it's stupid but laughably there are people who act just like her, they don't listen to a word anyone says and then they respond the way she did. So in reality you just hate people in general, the only thing this book has done is accurately portrayed how people in the real world act but instead of giving them a colored race or sexual preference they just labelled them as mutants.

#6 Posted by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually,I think that that is sorta addressed. When Spider man was receiving hate,people branded him as a mutant. I mean,they now know that's not true and love him,but point is:

If people simply suspect you to be a mutant,they will simply hate you because of that. Many Superheroes were suspected of being mutants and it was debunked.

But WHY is it that BEING a mutant is bad? This is i little problem, but I just think it is weird.

I don't get it...first of all,I don't see why helping others (they help more than just mutants,btw) is a bad idea. Especially so when the world looks at magneto,he isn't the first thing people think of when they think of the word "mutant". And they can wear costumes if they please...Spiderman does it. So does most every Superhero (in Marvel and DC)....so why not? They aren't really treated as equals...every other superhero wears a costume and it's no big deal,they should be able to wear one too if they want. And there are mutants that are not Xmen that get treated like crap,regardless.

Are you telling me that Spider-man can wear a costume,but simply because they are hated and feared by the world that a mutant cannot? That is actually a good example of how they are treated. It's not their fault that they are hated. As said,many don't wear costumes and still get persecuted nonetheless. And If other superheroes can,they should get that exact right as well (which is something they fight for),without being questioned any more or less.

No, I am saying that a uniform, like yellow spandex with big X on it is one thing, because it shows WHO they are. But if you make mutants superheroes, doesn't that alienate them more? Wouldn't that make people think of them as super-humans instead of, well, humans? My problem with them "helping" is that they do not have an authority and that, again alienate them by saying: There are human police AND mutant police. I know it isn't like that, I'm just saying that it is bad "marketing."

So...how does Professor X represent the entire X-men?

Doesn't Cerebro just scan the world for mutants? Even from people who don't know that they are mutants....I think that it only helps to find mutants across the globe

I'm not sure about HOW Cerebro works, but it IS an way of interfering in there Private life and getting information without there permission. I personally find the idea unconformable about someone going inside my head without permission.

Emma isn't evil..just a snarky (lovable) b!tch. How do they abuse their powers? It's not like they mindwipe people...

Well, I guess she was just "snarky" in the end of new X-men 36, were she finds Kimura preparing to kill X-23, and forcibly removes the memories of kimura's grandmother, the only person who treated her with kindness, and then telepathically forces her to kill every one in the weapon X project starting with Dr. Harkins, although her intent is good and she is doing this to protect her students, crawling inside someone's head destroying their only good memories and forcing them to murder, an entire facility full of people good or evil.

1. AvX was a widely hated event with a terrible plot.

1.5 I don't get what island you are talking about.

Utopia

2. Um,mutants face the worst oppression in Marvel. Simply because they are mutants they are hated against by most everyone. I can't believe that it almost sounds as if you are saying,"yeah you face oppression and discrimination,get over it!"

That sounds like a really dumb thing to say. No offense to you,at all,and I am not calling you dumb,but you make it appear as if,like the Fantastic Four,that they are well-loved by everyone and that they are not discriminated against. You make it seem as if they are respected just as the Avengers are,or that they are well seen as equals.

I don't even know what you mean by whiny....has it ever occured to you that:

  • Perhaps the complaints are because of the great hate that they face. The Fantastic Four doesn't face the same hatred from the public...neither does The Avengers
  • You DO know that the Xmen don't really complain of persecution. Sure they are against it,and they do recognize it,but they don't really complain. Also...again,they face discrimination. Do you just expect them to just ignore it and then "it'll go away"? Perhaps it's simply not right that it happens,especially since it mirrors the discrimination people face in real life. I don't exactly know what you mean by them being "whiny"....It's like the racism that people face today and you saying "well I faced it too,but that doesn't mean that I have to whine about it"... It shouldn't happen. That's all that matters. It's wrong that it happens. Btw,we all face racism and discrimination,but that doesn't make it right. Put simply,it's not right and they don't get treated as equals,which is what they fight for

And again,every race/ethnic group,religious group,gender,etc faces discrimination and such,but that's why we (we,as in people/humans) fight for equality for ALL people. Because it's simply not right.

I mean,every racial/ethnic group faces discrimination,but it's just not right that it happens and it should be stopped.However,with the X-men,it's more directed towards them in the Marvel Universe...

3. I was actually talking to a friend about the issue and even she disagreed with Rogue's anti-equality stance (@lykopis) . But the Xmen are not for this crap. Rogue is coming off from a standpoint that is against equality and acceptance,and instead for one that just causes divides.

You misunderstand. I talk about the way some mutants have been written LATELY like Rouge. I think that it makes them appear like complaining children. Cap tell Cyclops that there is a problem, he trow dirt in his face because he thinks that he doesn't help mutants enough. And Rouge keep complaining and complaining about her new team, that no one forced her to join. And Xavier keep telling Mystique how much better he is than her(after abducting her from the authorities).

There is debate as to whether Alex meant acceptance or assimilation. Scarlet Witch (and I) think that he meant for mutants to be seen as MORE than just mutants,but more importantly,accepted and still recognized as being such. As a black person,I don't want people to pretend as if they don't recognize my skin color,but I don't want to be seen ONLY for that. While it is a part of me,it's not what makes me completely. I agree,that is what Alex wanted...

Rogue and Kitty Pryde and such think that he meant to be ashamed of being a mutant,and that's not

I have found a scan with Kitty from all-new X-men. See, that is what I am talking about. She comes with arguments that I can agree and disagree with, instead of saying: ME mutant, no one understand, Alex stupid!

It almost seems as if you don't understand the X-men at all. I mean,you said you did,and I am not saying that you are ignorant of them,but when you actually think about it for a second,all of these actually makes sense.

I didn't claim that I understood the X-men, in fact THAT is what this forum is about. I wanted some opinions I hadn't thought about.

#7 Posted by DwightSpitz (567 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: Of course X-Men are allowed to wear costumes it's just that the whole disguise kinda loses its purpose & that makes it a bit weird, grown ass men(mutants) wearing costumes all the time just because they want to... Spider-Man has to conceal his identity since he is human & has a life when he isn't beating up bad guys. Like OP said, there is no reason for mutants to hide behind a mask because they have already distinguished themselves from humanity. Personally, it doesn't really bother me but then again I'm not too much of an X-Men fan so I will admit I'm no expert, I just like Wolverine basically. Storm is fine as hell so I like her too, plus she my man Black Panther's girl.

#8 Posted by cameron83 (6710 posts) - - Show Bio
@waezi2 said:

@cameron83 said:

Actually,I think that that is sorta addressed. When Spider man was receiving hate,people branded him as a mutant. I mean,they now know that's not true and love him,but point is:

If people simply suspect you to be a mutant,they will simply hate you because of that. Many Superheroes were suspected of being mutants and it was debunked.

But WHY is it that BEING a mutant is bad? This is i little problem, but I just think it is weird.

Well the thing about mutants are that they are supposed to mirror the way people in real life (such as gay people) are treated. It's supposed to be the same way and ever since their creation people have been trying to kill them because of it (for example,that was the purpose of the sentinels,to kill mutants. People fear the mutants and try to kill them. And put simply,people have always feared what is considered to be "the norm". And since being a mutant is seen as abominable and different,they treat them with hatred...you know what I mean.

I don't get it...first of all,I don't see why helping others (they help more than just mutants,btw) is a bad idea. Especially so when the world looks at magneto,he isn't the first thing people think of when they think of the word "mutant". And they can wear costumes if they please...Spiderman does it. So does most every Superhero (in Marvel and DC)....so why not? They aren't really treated as equals...every other superhero wears a costume and it's no big deal,they should be able to wear one too if they want. And there are mutants that are not Xmen that get treated like crap,regardless.

Are you telling me that Spider-man can wear a costume,but simply because they are hated and feared by the world that a mutant cannot? That is actually a good example of how they are treated. It's not their fault that they are hated. As said,many don't wear costumes and still get persecuted nonetheless. And If other superheroes can,they should get that exact right as well (which is something they fight for),without being questioned any more or less.

No, I am saying that a uniform, like yellow spandex with big X on it is one thing, because it shows WHO they are. But if you make mutants superheroes, doesn't that alienate them more? Wouldn't that make people think of them as super-humans instead of, well, humans? My problem with them "helping" is that they do not have an authority and that, again alienate them by saying: There are human police AND mutant police. I know it isn't like that, I'm just saying that it is bad "marketing."

Well actually,they DO have powers and such,and they can't control that. But people like Spider Man and such are humans and people are fine with him. I keep comparing Spider-man because,well,being a mutant (with the gene) is simply a delivery of powers. Spiderman got his powers later on,but he is still a human. Just with powers. Same with mutants,they are still humans,just with powers. The difference is that they were born with powers.

So it wouldn't really alienate them because,well,just think of Spiderman....Do you know what I mean?

Also,if they don't have the authority to help others,than I guess that means that no other hero does,amiright?

However,if that's the case,I don't think the police do,either. However,with the human police and mutant police,I can see your point. It's like there being superheroes like Spiderman and then MUTANT Superheroes. However,I don't think that that's the point of them,I think it's just that they are Superheroes that are mutants. Not really mutant superheroes (as opposed to regular superheroes. I think that they are superheroes that got their powers simply from birth and they still fit into the category of superheroes,not really in another category. the x-gene is simply how they got their powers).

So...how does Professor X represent the entire X-men?

Doesn't Cerebro just scan the world for mutants? Even from people who don't know that they are mutants....I think that it only helps to find mutants across the globe

I'm not sure about HOW Cerebro works, but it IS an way of interfering in there Private life and getting information without there permission. I personally find the idea unconformable about someone going inside my head without permission.

Cerebro (now destroyed and a new one,Cerebra) basically just scans the world for mutants...I think that's it. It's not like it reads their entire thoughts.

Emma isn't evil..just a snarky (lovable) b!tch. How do they abuse their powers? It's not like they mindwipe people...

Well, I guess she was just "snarky" in the end of new X-men 36, were she finds Kimura preparing to kill X-23, and forcibly removes the memories of kimura's grandmother, the only person who treated her with kindness, and then telepathically forces her to kill every one in the weapon X project starting with Dr. Harkins, although her intent is good and she is doing this to protect her students, crawling inside someone's head destroying their only good memories and forcing them to murder, an entire facility full of people good or evil.

Hm. I never read that. But if it's with good intentions to protect the lives of others,than sometimes Superheroes have to make those sacrifices. It's like what Superman did with Zod in MOS...if he lets him live,then lots more will die. It's a tough call that they have to make or others will die.

1. AvX was a widely hated event with a terrible plot.

1.5 I don't get what island you are talking about.

Utopia

2. Um,mutants face the worst oppression in Marvel. Simply because they are mutants they are hated against by most everyone. I can't believe that it almost sounds as if you are saying,"yeah you face oppression and discrimination,get over it!"

That sounds like a really dumb thing to say. No offense to you,at all,and I am not calling you dumb,but you make it appear as if,like the Fantastic Four,that they are well-loved by everyone and that they are not discriminated against. You make it seem as if they are respected just as the Avengers are,or that they are well seen as equals.

I don't even know what you mean by whiny....has it ever occured to you that:

  • Perhaps the complaints are because of the great hate that they face. The Fantastic Four doesn't face the same hatred from the public...neither does The Avengers
  • You DO know that the Xmen don't really complain of persecution. Sure they are against it,and they do recognize it,but they don't really complain. Also...again,they face discrimination. Do you just expect them to just ignore it and then "it'll go away"? Perhaps it's simply not right that it happens,especially since it mirrors the discrimination people face in real life. I don't exactly know what you mean by them being "whiny"....It's like the racism that people face today and you saying "well I faced it too,but that doesn't mean that I have to whine about it"... It shouldn't happen. That's all that matters. It's wrong that it happens. Btw,we all face racism and discrimination,but that doesn't make it right. Put simply,it's not right and they don't get treated as equals,which is what they fight for

And again,every race/ethnic group,religious group,gender,etc faces discrimination and such,but that's why we (we,as in people/humans) fight for equality for ALL people. Because it's simply not right.

I mean,every racial/ethnic group faces discrimination,but it's just not right that it happens and it should be stopped.However,with the X-men,it's more directed towards them in the Marvel Universe...

3. I was actually talking to a friend about the issue and even she disagreed with Rogue's anti-equality stance (@lykopis) . But the Xmen are not for this crap. Rogue is coming off from a standpoint that is against equality and acceptance,and instead for one that just causes divides.

You misunderstand. I talk about the way some mutants have been written LATELY like Rouge. I think that it makes them appear like complaining children. Cap tell Cyclops that there is a problem, he trow dirt in his face because he thinks that he doesn't help mutants enough. And Rouge keep complaining and complaining about her new team, that no one forced her to join. And Xavier keep telling Mystique how much better he is than her(after abducting her from the authorities).

I agree. It just seems almost like out-of-character and bad writing. Also seems like they only want division,not unity.

Also,what do you mean "the ghettos"? Not really denying anything,in fact I am just being a bit nosy right now,so ignore this part if you like :P

But all racial/ethnic groups face persecution,not just one. I hate when ignorant people deny that (not talking about you,but some people out there are so ignorant and biased that they assume that only their race or one or a few races face persecution,and not every group).

There is debate as to whether Alex meant acceptance or assimilation. Scarlet Witch (and I) think that he meant for mutants to be seen as MORE than just mutants,but more importantly,accepted and still recognized as being such. As a black person,I don't want people to pretend as if they don't recognize my skin color,but I don't want to be seen ONLY for that. While it is a part of me,it's not what makes me completely. I agree,that is what Alex wanted...

Rogue and Kitty Pryde and such think that he meant to be ashamed of being a mutant,and that's not

I have found a scan with Kitty from all-new X-men. See, that is what I am talking about. She comes with arguments that I can agree and disagree with, instead of saying: ME mutant, no one understand, Alex stupid!

Well since she thought that Alex meant assimilation she went from the stance that people,anyone,should be proud of who they are. I DON'T think Alex meant assimilation and the ones that are written like Rogue apparently only want divisions,not equality. I mean,as said,I want people to see my race and not treat me different from any other or pretend as if they don't notice (as if it's a bad thing),however,it's only PART of me,it isn't what defines me...knowwhatImean?

It almost seems as if you don't understand the X-men at all. I mean,you said you did,and I am not saying that you are ignorant of them,but when you actually think about it for a second,all of these actually makes sense.

I didn't claim that I understood the X-men, in fact THAT is what this forum is about. I wanted some opinions I hadn't thought about.

I thought that you said you liked the concept and such,so I assumed that you understood them. I didn't want to make an insulting assumption that you "didn't" know what you were talking about,so I just assumed that you were familiar with them. My bad :)

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#9 Posted by QueenCorp15 (1023 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously if u dont like the xmen u shouldnt b alowed to read marvel titles since most of the stuff that happens in xmen has reprocussions that lasts years later througout all titles

#10 Edited by jhazzroucher (15199 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the x-men

#11 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

It begins.

The great sh*tstorm of our time.

#12 Posted by papad1992 (6822 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the x-men

I LOVE the X-Men... all you trolls, BACK-OFF!

#13 Posted by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: one ppl hate mutants bc they think mutants are trying to rule over the human race super heroes are loved bc they are still human. xavier does not usually abuse his power he sets boundaries for himself he only abuses it if someones a threat and they wine bc most are just kids finding out they have powers and that most of the world hates them and that they now have to fight. read claremonts legendary run put your foot in your mouth and start loving xmen

#14 Posted by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice, well-reasoned OP.... NOT.

#15 Posted by Impala (264 posts) - - Show Bio

i like Cyclops

#17 Posted by gambit75 (57 posts) - - Show Bio

Love the X-men Comics, Hate the X-men Movies.

#18 Edited by Wolverine08 (38949 posts) - - Show Bio

Love Wolverine, don't care about any of the other X Men.

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#19 Posted by Polarity (106 posts) - - Show Bio

@bababoom said:

@bababoom said:
@waezi2 said:

There are those who believe that to end racism one has to stop classifying people by their race and forget about any racial things that go with it but, there are those who believe that forgetting one's race/ethnicity/nationality/group is to forget one's identity. Which is discussed in All-new X-men when Kitty Pryde wants people to know her as both Jewish and Mutant. She wants people to see her as what she is and doesn't want to pretend to be anything other. Being seen as a person first is indeed a good thing but, in Havok's speech he made the word mutant seem derogatory and that can be seen as a negative. Calling mutant the "m-word" is similar to making the term black/asian/white/etc. into an insult or at least an offensive word to call someone. The X-Men is all about living an equal co-existence between regular humans and mutants and Havok's speech imply that the only way to co-exist peacefully with regular humans is to assimilate into their society and forget about being mutants. The latter goes against what the X-Men believes in.

While I'm here, if you didn't already notice, in the scan you are showing. Rouge is representing the "uncorrupted (for lack of a better word)" mutant. Meaning that she is symbolizing a minority that is proud of her heritage and wouldn't do anything to either deny or hide it. On the other hand, Scarlet Witch is representing the "whitewashed (again, for lack of a better word)" mutant. Meaning that she is symbolizing a minority that has seen the flaws of her heritage, or is ashamed of it, and tries hard to be just like the culture surrounding her. (Just for those who hadn't noticed yet.)

This is one of those topics that is hard to talk about. The subject of race can be seen in so many ways by so many people. As a non-white immigrant in the USA, I see this subject in a completely different manner as opposed to someone who has a background that is completely opposite to mine. Making me able to talk about topics like this; however, is why I love the X-Men.

The thing is that the word "mutant" is a derogatory , it's always has been. The franchise relies upon the word's innate demeaning value to drive home the hated and feared metaphor. Why did Magneto come up with "homo superior"? He's basically saying screw you I'm not a mutant, I'm homo superior. By implication he himself rejected "mutant" by using it. It's not black, Asian, gay etc., it's an archaic term akin to negro. It's a word created by and attributed to a group by an outsider, not a term invented by the group itself.

I mean who would want to be called mutant?

"Hey guys we're all born with superpowers, what should we call ourselves?"

"Well we're all x-gene positive human beings, but lets call ourselves 'mutants'."

"Sounds good! High Five!!"

Personally I think x-gene positive humans is a great term to replace mutant. It's not demeaning and it's scientifically accurate. But the franchise needs the "hated and feared" part and that term doesn't promote that.

Beyond that nobody is really thinking like a mutant or what I'm calling the mutant condition. We have mutants that don't know how to use their powers when they first manifest and mutants that may never learn how to use their powers. Even worse we have beings like Legion, Proteus, Jim Jaspers, Franklin Richards and what have you. Powers that can do damage to public property or serious harm to people. The real fear of mutants isn't that they look different from base humans (some do, some don't), it comes from several different aspects including mutants being a threat to public safety and that's a serious issue that has no real world parallel. Part of the X-men's purpose, a BIG part of that, is to inform the world that what lies behind that danger, that perilous power, that menace to society is an actual human. A person that can be scared or confused and that could use some understanding instead of being viewed as a weapon of mass destruction. Besides the actual training of mutants, this is probably the greatest public service the x-men can provide.

With the X-men it's never been about ideas such as assimilation or what have you, that has never been a part of the franchise. It's about informing the general public that mutants aren't weapons of mass destruction that will annihilate everything in their path, but actual humans with thoughts and feelings similar to their own. That's the mutant condition; that's the uniqueness to their plight and Havok's speech squarely speaks to this.

#20 Edited by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992: @queencorp15: @bigtewell: I said that some of the really good books I have read are in fact X-men or X-men related. One of my favorites is "god loves, man kills." And it is impossible to truly hate a team that has Night-crawler as a member:) I'm just saying that there are a lot of problems with the X-men. ALL superhero related things has stuff that doesn't add up or make sense, but we still love them. But the list of problems with the X just keep growing and growing and it is hard to ignore them. As I said, I like the idea, but I hate what the idea are today.

And how come I am a troll, papad1992?

I am more a DC guy, QueenCorp15, but I know, that when Marvel get it right, they get it RIGHT! And I said that I like a lot of X/X-related stuff. But its... problematic to like the X-books them self sometimes.

And I love the X-men, bigtewell, but I am bothered by this things. I will take a look at it if I get the chance.

#21 Posted by jhazzroucher (15199 posts) - - Show Bio

@jhazzroucher said:

I like the x-men

I LOVE the X-Men... all you trolls, BACK-OFF!

I love the x-men too. : )

#22 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32898 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: The reason they were costumes is because the general public see pepole with powers in costumes as superheroes and they are easier to accept than just powered beings that look like anybody just walking around

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#23 Posted by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

The OP is just awful. It's not just ill-informed, it's just silly.

#24 Edited by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

The OP is just awful. It's not just ill-informed, it's just silly.

#25 Posted by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio

@john_valentine: No, its not. I DO hate the X-Men as what they are instead of what they could be. And I have never been a ultra fan, witch make it the more easier to hate them.

#26 Posted by God_Spawn (37381 posts) - - Show Bio

I do feel like on quite a few points, you just seem out of touch with certain things.

Moderator
#27 Edited by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

@john_valentine: No, its not. I DO hate the X-Men as what they are instead of what they could be. And I have never been a ultra fan, witch make it the more easier to hate them.

I'm going to get back to you this evening when I have time.

#29 Edited by cameron83 (6710 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992 said:

@jhazzroucher said:

I like the x-men

I LOVE the X-Men... all you trolls, BACK-OFF!

@john_valentine said:

The OP is just awful. It's not just ill-informed, it's just silly.

I do feel like on quite a few points, you just seem out of touch with certain things.

I agree wholeheartedly with you guys.

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#30 Posted by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

@cameron83 said:

Also,if they don't have the authority to help others,than I guess that means that no other hero does,amiright?

However,if that's the case,I don't think the police do,either. However,with the human police and mutant police,I can see your point. It's like there being superheroes like Spiderman and then MUTANT Superheroes. However,I don't think that that's the point of them,I think it's just that they are Superheroes that are mutants. Not really mutant superheroes (as opposed to regular superheroes. I think that they are superheroes that got their powers simply from birth and they still fit into the category of superheroes,not really in another category. the x-gene is simply how they got their powers).

But can it really be that difficult to make the X-Men an worldwide agency? In fact, that could be a cool idea for a book: X-Men International. Of course they should help out, and if it really IS impossible to get the authorities behind your back, well, mutants still need help, end of story.

So...how does Professor X represent the entire X-men?

Doesn't Cerebro just scan the world for mutants? Even from people who don't know that they are mutants....I think that it only helps to find mutants across the globe

I'm not sure about HOW Cerebro works, but it IS an way of interfering in there Private life and getting information without there permission. I personally find the idea unconformable about someone going inside my head without permission.

Cerebro (now destroyed and a new one,Cerebra) basically just scans the world for mutants...I think that's it. It's not like it reads their entire thoughts.

All right then, my bad.

Emma isn't evil..just a snarky (lovable) b!tch. How do they abuse their powers? It's not like they mindwipe people...

Well, I guess she was just "snarky" in the end of new X-men 36, were she finds Kimura preparing to kill X-23, and forcibly removes the memories of kimura's grandmother, the only person who treated her with kindness, and then telepathically forces her to kill every one in the weapon X project starting with Dr. Harkins, although her intent is good and she is doing this to protect her students, crawling inside someone's head destroying their only good memories and forcing them to murder, an entire facility full of people good or evil.

Hm. I never read that. But if it's with good intentions to protect the lives of others,than sometimes Superheroes have to make those sacrifices. It's like what Superman did with Zod in MOS...if he lets him live,then lots more will die. It's a tough call that they have to make or others will die.

That were one of the more stupid parts of MOS.

Also,what do you mean "the ghettos"? Not really denying anything,in fact I am just being a bit nosy right now,so ignore this part if you like :P

I was raised in a place called Sønderbouldervard, were there mainly live Persians and Turks(In Denmark there is a slang called Perkians, kind of like Nigga)

I didn't claim that I understood the X-men, in fact THAT is what this forum is about. I wanted some opinions I hadn't thought about.

I thought that you said you liked the concept and such,so I assumed that you understood them. I didn't want to make an insulting assumption that you "didn't" know what you were talking about,so I just assumed that you were familiar with them. My bad :)

I like the X-Men, But I am not an expert:)

#31 Posted by cameron83 (6710 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

@cameron83 said:
@waezi2 said:

@cameron83 said:

Also,if they don't have the authority to help others,than I guess that means that no other hero does,amiright?

However,if that's the case,I don't think the police do,either. However,with the human police and mutant police,I can see your point. It's like there being superheroes like Spiderman and then MUTANT Superheroes. However,I don't think that that's the point of them,I think it's just that they are Superheroes that are mutants. Not really mutant superheroes (as opposed to regular superheroes. I think that they are superheroes that got their powers simply from birth and they still fit into the category of superheroes,not really in another category. the x-gene is simply how they got their powers).

But can it really be that difficult to make the X-Men an worldwide agency? In fact, that could be a cool idea for a book: X-Men International. Of course they should help out, and if it really IS impossible to get the authorities behind your back, well, mutants still need help, end of story.

So...how does Professor X represent the entire X-men?

Doesn't Cerebro just scan the world for mutants? Even from people who don't know that they are mutants....I think that it only helps to find mutants across the globe

I'm not sure about HOW Cerebro works, but it IS an way of interfering in there Private life and getting information without there permission. I personally find the idea unconformable about someone going inside my head without permission.

Cerebro (now destroyed and a new one,Cerebra) basically just scans the world for mutants...I think that's it. It's not like it reads their entire thoughts.

All right then, my bad.

Emma isn't evil..just a snarky (lovable) b!tch. How do they abuse their powers? It's not like they mindwipe people...

Well, I guess she was just "snarky" in the end of new X-men 36, were she finds Kimura preparing to kill X-23, and forcibly removes the memories of kimura's grandmother, the only person who treated her with kindness, and then telepathically forces her to kill every one in the weapon X project starting with Dr. Harkins, although her intent is good and she is doing this to protect her students, crawling inside someone's head destroying their only good memories and forcing them to murder, an entire facility full of people good or evil.

Hm. I never read that. But if it's with good intentions to protect the lives of others,than sometimes Superheroes have to make those sacrifices. It's like what Superman did with Zod in MOS...if he lets him live,then lots more will die. It's a tough call that they have to make or others will die.

That were one of the more stupid parts of MOS.

Also,what do you mean "the ghettos"? Not really denying anything,in fact I am just being a bit nosy right now,so ignore this part if you like :P

I was raised in a place called Sønderbouldervard, were there mainly live Persians and Turks(In Denmark there is a slang called Perkians, kind of like Nigga)

I didn't claim that I understood the X-men, in fact THAT is what this forum is about. I wanted some opinions I hadn't thought about.

I thought that you said you liked the concept and such,so I assumed that you understood them. I didn't want to make an insulting assumption that you "didn't" know what you were talking about,so I just assumed that you were familiar with them. My bad :)

I like the X-Men, But I am not an ex1. Apert:)

1. Agreed. The mutants face persecution everyday and people in the world ignore it. Did you read the latest Uncanny Xmen? Did you see how they reacted to that guy being a mutant and what they said towards him? That's basically how they are treated each day.

2. While X-Men international sounds like it can be interesting,I think that that's the point of the main team. To help mutants everywhere.

3. I am sorry for what happened to you :(

But still,I kinda agree with the other guys

@god_spawn @papad1992 @jhazzroucher @john_valentine

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#32 Posted by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83:

And that is your right to agree with who you want. And thank you for coming with arguments, instead of just saying: You are wrong:)

#33 Edited by cameron83 (6710 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

@cameron83:

And that is your right to agree with who you want. And thank you for coming with arguments, instead of just saying: You are wrong:)

Oh,no prob :)

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#34 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

The conversation between Rogue and Scarlet Witch is the reason why I went from really enjoying the Uncanny Avengers to loathing it.

That is not Rogue. At all. Character assassination at one of its worst.

That is not Scarlet Witch. Sorry, I enjoy the character but kumbuya-holding-hands she is not.

Totally missed the point of what Alex said at the news conference. The word "mutie" was whipped around like the "N" word and what made it even worse was Kitty's speech in All New nauseated me since in the 80's, she was the poster child for exactly why she hated it. Now she completely missed the point but hey, Bendis wants to push through his story and Remender was slapped back into ranks and came up with that POS issue.

As for the rest of the OP -- everyone else did a wonderful job discussing it (including the OP). Just FYI -- Storm is no longer Black Panther's woman. It's been like that for a while. :)

#35 Edited by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by BaBaBoom (274 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

@innervenom123: I don't know what the heck I was thinking.

You should have have seen this coming when you posted "why I hate the X-men" in the X-men forums. lol

#37 Edited by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio

@bababoom: To be honest, I thought that the word "hate" were more powerful that "Do not like" and would get more attention:)

I had a thought: Is it wrong to cure mutation?

All mutants have to live with the fear and misunderstanding the world often give them. But some have more problems than others. A classic case could be Rouge, who had to evade contact with anyone, or she would kill them. Not to mention physical mutation that makes you look like a ape/bear/ape again/whatever. But none of them asked for this mutation, so shouldn't they have the chance to get "cured?"

We live in a world, were you, tanks to science, can be LITERALLY whoever you want to be. Hell, you can change your gender. If that is all right, shouldn't a "cure" for mutation be accepted?

And Jubilee is still a part of the mutant community, as far as I understand(correct me if I am wrong), so that shouldn't be a problem.

#38 Edited by BaBaBoom (274 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: Read Joss Whedon's run of Astonishing X-men, it will address the issue about a cure.

#39 Edited by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1005 posts) - - Show Bio

It seems like the problem has less to do with the X-Men than it does with casual readers who don't understand the concept.

#40 Posted by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio

@bababoom: I did. It was pretty damn good.

There is an argument, that if you think that it is acceptable to cure mutation, that its okay to cure homosexuality. But...

Again, we live in a world were we can change from fat to flat, not to hot and gal to guy. Is it wrong to change your sexuality? Some young homosexual people fell lonely and depressed because of the fact that they are attracted to there own gender. Is that fair?

I like Logans argument to why Hank cant get "cured" by the way. One of the most awesome X-moments ever.

#41 Posted by papad1992 (6822 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

@papad1992: @queencorp15: @bigtewell: I said that some of the really good books I have read are in fact X-men or X-men related. One of my favorites is "god loves, man kills." And it is impossible to truly hate a team that has Night-crawler as a member:) I'm just saying that there are a lot of problems with the X-men. ALL superhero related things has stuff that doesn't add up or make sense, but we still love them. But the list of problems with the X just keep growing and growing and it is hard to ignore them. As I said, I like the idea, but I hate what the idea are today.

That makes no sense... every team, if not every character or team-up, has problems. Pointing out the flaws in something and highlighting it to overcome the great opportunities and events that occur within a unit is senseless.

And I wasn't calling you a troll... I was being sarcastic and funny!

#42 Edited by papad1992 (6822 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992 said:

@jhazzroucher said:

I like the x-men

I LOVE the X-Men... all you trolls, BACK-OFF!

@john_valentine said:

The OP is just awful. It's not just ill-informed, it's just silly.

@god_spawn said:

I do feel like on quite a few points, you just seem out of touch with certain things.

I agree wholeheartedly with you guys.

Well, thank you.

#43 Posted by cameron83 (6710 posts) - - Show Bio

It seems like the problem has less to do with the X-Men than it does with casual readers who don't understand the concept.

q....f......t

@cameron83 said:

@papad1992 said:

@jhazzroucher said:

I like the x-men

I LOVE the X-Men... all you trolls, BACK-OFF!

@john_valentine said:

The OP is just awful. It's not just ill-informed, it's just silly.

@god_spawn said:

I do feel like on quite a few points, you just seem out of touch with certain things.

I agree wholeheartedly with you guys.

Well, thank you.

No problem :)

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#44 Posted by Diamondlifer1 (128 posts) - - Show Bio

Havok is a little fairy who acts as if the word mutant is derogatory
Scarlet Witch is clearly ashamed of being a mutant she wants to be " Normal" she's a real bitch sometimes
Humans hate mutants because they fear Homo Superior, Mutants once numbered in millions and so they fear mutants overpopulating them or replacing them.

#45 Posted by Ultra_beleco (184 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by Ultra_beleco (184 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2:

Now About the thread. I think the concept of "Feared and hated by a world they have sworn to protect" is something you don't like in a comic book, or you think it doesnt make sense in a superhero book. What is a Shame because that is the reason why I love x-men above all the other comic heroes.

Yet, there is plenty of storylines in wich the x-men behave like normal superheroes. If you stick in the forum a little more people may help you find those.

#47 Posted by papad1992 (6822 posts) - - Show Bio
#48 Posted by War Killer (19994 posts) - - Show Bio

Some will probably disagree, but I've always felt that Marvel should just move the X-Men and X-related characters to their own universe. The simply reason is because I feel that there's enough surrounding the characters that they could support a whole universe on their own, but also because the X-Men, even in a Universe-wide crossover event, the X-Men have very little interaction with the rest of the Marvel U and instead of just staying in their little bubble of the Marvel Universe why not just give them their own universe to build their characters and stories upon?

#49 Edited by waezi2 (6854 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer: It worked before like that. Before Crisis On Infinite Earths there were, for example, one earth were superheroes were a relative new thing(earth 1) and one were the had existed since WW2(earth 2)

#50 Posted by War Killer (19994 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

@war_killer: It worked before like that. Before Crisis On Infinite Earths there were, for example, one earth were superheroes were a relative new thing(earth 1) and one were the had existed since WW2(earth 2)

Exactly. I just think the X-Men and the characters involved in that corner of the Marvel Universe would have a greater effect with their own universe and it those stories would feel as if they have a greater impact of the world around them because they would be the only super-humans in that world. I feel like that at times, because there are other heroes like Iron Man, Spider-Man, Hulk, and Thor that Mutants aren't as important or that even if Mutants died out or something that it wouldn't effect the Marvel Universe as greatly because there would still be super-humans around, they just wouldn't be Mutant.

Some will probably disagree, but I think the X-Men and those characters would be more appreciated and their story of struggling to survive in a world that hates and despises them would be much more important. That's kind of what I like about what Fox is trying to do with the X-Men franchise by trying to expand on the characters they have and create their own universe of X-characters.