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Posted by Teerack (5323 posts) 1 year, 3 months ago

Poll: Who should lead the X-Men? (84 votes)

Cyclops 57%
Wolverine 5%
Storm 23%
Professor X 15%

If the X-Men were to rejoin into one faction again who should be the over all leader?

#51 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3449 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish the remaining leaders would stop arguing over Xavier's flawed legacy. Get out there and make their own groups and just acknowledge that for whatever reason, none of them really represent the mutant community coming together as much as they show a group of people struggling to tolerate each other despite their love and respect. Understandable, really, but they should stop plastering 'X' on themselves and build new dreams and new organizations without Charles' shadow TBH.

#52 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio

If the Cyclops vs Storm model for leadership ain't broke, why mess with it?

.

exactly.

I understand your view on Logan, but I said that cause I just want that man out of X-Books for awhile. I just have no love for Wolverine anymore with Marvel forcing him to appear in everything. Logan should not be in like 5 books every week.

haha, no definitely not. I just like that that's his context; he would do much better to be a background character who rarely appears in the main X-men books. I like the idea that he has his own class of trouble students at the school, that that's his day job, but between that and being on the Avengers he shouldn't have time to be on the X-men too. Given that a lot of the Avengers have solo books (or are on multiple teams..) I don't think him having two roles (Avenger + teacher) is too much.

#53 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Then let one of his two solo titles be used for him to be a teacher, and let Storm and Kitty run the school. Saves him time, saves my sanity, and saves Storm from being not used appropriately.

#54 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

Cyclops is not fit to lead.

Ah, it's good to be back. Nice to see the X-Boards haven't changed.

But seriously, there should be two leaders. Scott leading the revolution, and Storm leading the JGS. Send Wolverine to the Avengers, and make him stay there for like 3 years.

Lmao.

#55 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Not necessarily, a nice example of co-leadership of the team which i loved was during the Lobdell era, where they were actively co-leading and it was a fact you couldn't miss because it was persistently stated. It is possible for them to get on the same grounding, except for when the times are hard, and that school/XSE example's way off.

But it is a waste for the two of them not leading their own respective teams.

#56 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegreyoutcastx said:
@ageofhurricane said:

Cyclops is not fit to lead.

Ah, it's good to be back. Nice to see the X-Boards haven't changed.

But seriously, there should be two leaders. Scott leading the revolution, and Storm leading the JGS. Send Wolverine to the Avengers, and make him stay there for like 3 years.

Lmao.

I must say I'm glad we've moved on from Scott is a douche to Scott is a murdering psycho. We're making gains. lol

#57 Edited by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

From those, Xavier.

Not limited to those I would say Beast, purely because he's awesome.

#58 Posted by butterflykyss (3914 posts) - - Show Bio

Mm. I get the idea that this 'X-Men of The Roundtable' thing was supposed to have been the highlight during the Utopian era, but no. It was more of Cyclops' domineering and dictating, or Wolverine doing the ole' "bub" talk. There was no personal deference, it was follow the leader (Cyclops).

Storm should. At this point, she's the only viable and trustworthy representative of Mutantkind (with a Mohawk). Cyclops has taken this distorted vision of protecting new mutants to a different extreme and his ideology is unhealthy. Quite a lot of other people don't trust him, so why would they let him lead them ?

Yes, Xavier had the dream and a good dream it was, else this wouldn't be a discussion, but Storm (upon first taking up the leadership mantle) always made that, whatever her own endeavor, the priority, and she didn't allow any dispositional grudge to cloud it. Looks like Cyclops is still trying to show Wolverine who was "the better man" at the end of the day. And that's pathetic. Cyclops isn't in the right state of mind to lead an entire race. He's crazy.

well said

#59 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio
#60 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: He is still a good guy. He just wants to be like Logan.....which isn't much better.

#61 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Then let one of his two solo titles be used for him to be a teacher, and let Storm and Kitty run the school. Saves him time, saves my sanity, and saves Storm from being not used appropriately.

yeah, I don't think he needs two solo titles either, but I don't read either of them. His roles in Uncanny Avengers and Wolverine and the X-men are more than enough for me (though I do wish he was more consistently written in the latter).

@oldnightcrawler: Not necessarily, a nice example of co-leadership of the team which i loved was during the Lobdell era, where they were actively co-leading and it was a fact you couldn't miss because it was persistently stated. It is possible for them to get on the same grounding, except for when the times are hard, and that school/XSE example's way off.

But it is a waste for the two of them not leading their own respective teams.

Yeah. I would say that part of why the Lobdell era worked was because they each lead their own teams for the most part; members would go back and forth between them, based on the story, but they were rarely on the same squad themselves. It was like they had shared custody of the X-men as a whole, more than that they actually co-lead like, say, Dani and Cannonball (or Storm and Wolverine, Cyclops and Emma, etc..). Though I concede that that is a minor distinction.

#62 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio
#63 Edited by McKlayn (1069 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler said:

@thegreyoutcastx said:

But seriously, there should be two leaders. Scott leading the revolution, and Storm leading the JGS. Send Wolverine to the Avengers, and make him stay there for like 3 years.

Basically. Storm and Cyclops always end up not being willing to follow each other; even when they aren't at odds, it always ends up with one of them leading one team and one of them leading another. When Storm defeated Cyclops for leadership the first time, he went and started X-factor; when he took over the school with Emma, she started the XSE. And when they are on the same team, they're always butting heads anyway because they do have such different styles of leadership; it's really kind of a waste to not have them each leading their own team.

And as for Wolverine, I do like that he lives/works at/represents the school, but that doesn't mean that he has to be on the X-men. So, yeah, I'm a little more interested in seeing him on the Uncanny Avengers, as a representative of the X-men, than actually on an X-men team at this point.

Also a good point why the round table wouldn't work, kind of what i was saying. ONe person would disagree and go off and start there own team, thus yea defeating the purpose. But i do agree two leaders of the X men, Storm and Cyclops those are the only two ive ever considered real leaders (besides prof of course but he was kind of a background noise for a couple of decades now) I did enjoy the Storm Mini Series that painted Cyclops as one of the more important men in her life (right next to Tchalla who she was married to at the time) when she fought the shadow king and had to save them both. IT shows a short of respect they have for each other.

Also i would like to point out that in the ANXM #11 Preview thread i just looked at Storm is actually (almost) siding with Cyclops trying to get everyone to calm down and let Angel talk, giving him a choice (its just like one maybe two lines but still) so they can actually work together and disagree at the same time i think

Also like to Note that Wolverine should stay with the Avengers, I think most X fans are pretty over him by now

#64 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@mcklayn said:

Also like to Note that Wolverine should stay with the Avengers, I think most X fans are pretty over him by now

Understatement of the year. lol

#65 Edited by Teerack (5323 posts) - - Show Bio

I keep seeing a lot of people say that Xavier had a dream but didn't have what it takes to see it through, but honestly the things we've learned in the past 13 years kind of reveals that Professor X was easily the most ruthless leader of the X-Men. He was just so powerful and smart he was able to make it seem like he was this pure heart saint when really he was a lot like Magneto just not as up front with the way he went about things. And I mean that in the sense that Magneto use his power to inspire loyalty and get what he wanted. Professor X used his power to manipulate others into getting what he wanted, and was able to keep a good image to inspire loyalty. Time and time again Professor X would do what ever it took to get things done. I think Magneto and Cyclops are probably the only to people willing to see and accept this.

That being sad I really don't see how anyone can consider Cyclops crazy, or try to claim he lets grudges and stuff cloud his judgment. I thought the entire Utopia era really showed this. Scott would call a meeting with all of his advisers and listen, and then he would make a choice. Pretty much every time the council would talk they would all have various bias opinions and then Scott would try to see the best choice. Storm's leadership in "X-Men" really to me showed her inability to put her personal feelings aside considering how she hid everything from Scott regarding the Proto-Mutants.

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#66 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

That being sad I really don't see how anyone can consider Cyclops crazy, or try to claim he lets grudges and stuff cloud his judgment. I thought the entire Utopia era really showed this. Scott would call a meeting with all of his advisers and listen, and then he would make a choice. Pretty much every time the council would talk they would all have various bias opinions and then Scott would try to see the best choice. Storm's leadership in "X-Men" really to me showed her inability to put her personal feelings aside considering how she hid everything from Scott regarding the Proto-Mutants.

Funny, considering how she went and told him, herself, anyways. :s

#67 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Likewise, I just wish WATXM was actually tolerate to read.

yeah. It's kinda the best role for him in the X-men, but the least consistently written.

@mcklayn said:

Also i would like to point out that in the ANXM #11 Preview thread i just looked at Storm is actually (almost) siding with Cyclops trying to get everyone to calm down and let Angel talk, giving him a choice (its just like one maybe two lines but still) so they can actually work together and disagree at the same time i think

Also like to Note that Wolverine should stay with the Avengers, I think most X fans are pretty over him by now

I think that Storm more so sees both sides, or at least that there is more than one side, than some of the others.

@teerack: those are some really good points, but, at the time of the recon team, Storm already knew that Cyclops had hid things from her and was starting to question how much control she had over her own team because of him. It's a pretty classic example of why these two characters shouldn't be answerable to each other, in my mind.

#68 Posted by Teerack (5323 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: She only told him bits and pieces on her own and even then a large chunk of the information she gave to Scott was only because Colossus was pressuring her, and she knew Colossus was going to tell Scott if she didn't. Also she really only told Scott stuff so he wouldn't wonder/question what she was doing, but then when Magik got involved Storm basically had to come clean to Scott about everything. The whole thing kind of played out like a kid doing stuff behind their parent's back and then confessing when they got caught.

@oldnightcrawler: Doesn't that just make it worse though? I mean Storm stayed in Utopia when Scott asked her to, so she agreed to follow/lead under him, but wasn't able to put her personal feelings about Scott aside. Even if she knew Scott was hiding stuff from her it was still her responsibility to answer to him.

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#69 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: You should go back and re-read the entire story before making false claims. She came "clean" to Scott about everything after they had gathered enough information about the enemy, in the fourth issue, after all had been said and done, she didn't give jack prior to that (except for Piotr, who was going behind her back, talking to Scott), so i'm not sure where all this "told him bits and pieces on her own and then a large chunk" conjecture is coming from, because that's not true. Magik also had nothing to do with the confession, that only affected how strong the personal opposition was.

And to use your unoriginal analogy, it's justifiable when that parent is: a control-freak, obsessive, domineering, brash, crass and one-dimensional. She procrastinated from giving him everything because the minute Scott found out, he would have blown things out of proportion and shoved her out the picture. Storm's proven herself to be just a good a leader as Cyclops, it had nothing to do with "personal feelings" but doing what she needed to, to maintain the cause, which is all the X-Men have been about--she isn't subject to answering to him about anything, because Scott Summers is not the ultimate authority--right now, he's just a manic, so she made the right decision.

#70 Edited by Teerack (5323 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: ...... You understand what I meant when I said bits and pieces right? She did communicate with Scott, but didn't say anything important until she was pressured into it. Colossus wasn't there she probably would have kept the whole thing a secret. Unless you think Storm is an idiot I don't know how you can say Magik has nothing to do with it when Magik was like "You need to tell Scott." "How have you not told him?" Storm was able to talk to Colossus and because of their mutual respect he gave her some time, but Magik does not have a relationship with Storm and would not have held her tongue so it was either come clean or let Scott find out from someone else.

The second part of your post I don't want to argue just point out that your first senescent list her "personal" reason for why what she did was "justified" and then you went on to say it wasn't person. :V And at the time Scott was leader of Utopia which was a nation, so it was technically treasonous.... like by definition it was, so uh... yeah he was the ultimate authority at the time...

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#71 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: those are some really good points, but, at the time of the recon team, Storm already knew that Cyclops had hid things from her and was starting to question how much control she had over her own team because of him. It's a pretty classic example of why these two characters shouldn't be answerable to each other, in my mind.

@teerack said:

@oldnightcrawler: Doesn't that just make it worse though? I mean Storm stayed in Utopia when Scott asked her to, so she agreed to follow/lead under him, but wasn't able to put her personal feelings about Scott aside. Even if she knew Scott was hiding stuff from her it was still her responsibility to answer to him.

I don't think she saw it that way; and I don't know why she should have to answer to him, especially if he's made it clear that he's not answerable to her. There's no reason they shouldn't treat each other as equals equals by now.

#72 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: "Bits and pieces" does not mean on-and-off communicating. If that's you really meant, you could have said it, unless your definition for "communication" is something else altogether. And again, i'm not seeing this, the only time they spoke before she "came clean" was during #30, until he appeared again in #34, more false claims because she had never stated it on panel. Storm knew Piotr was going to snitch, and she put him back in his place before things got really out of hand.

You don't know Storm's character at all by the looks of it, so i'm not surprised that this concept is all very new to you. She wasn't pressured into doing anything, like i said, she's a competent leader. She was taking the risks, variables and circumstances into consideration--she needed more context from which to draw her conclusion and needed to wait until they had found their enemy until that was possible. Yes, Colossus and Magik's kissing of Scott's arse was pressure, but that's not what made her tell him, she told Scott because she had found enough information and her team had finally discovered--or closest to it--what they were dealing with. There was no pressure involved and Piotr's presence would not have made difference.

And lol @ that Magik comment. Who is she ?

And no, Scott Summers is not the ultimate authority. Regardless of whether or not he was "leading" Utopia as this mission's purpose was a lot bigger than that stagnant rock's survival.

#73 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

Even when she gave him an inch, he went and took a bloody mile.

Stalking her and whining. Scott's an obsessive/possessive maniac. Undermining her leadership capabilities and making it some supposed mandate that she must answer to him, when they are, in fact, equals. It's never the right way unless you're doing it his way. Another reason why a roundtable discussion thing with him wouldn't work, he does what he wants "for the greater good", he is not fit to lead--much less an entire race. At least with Storm in this context, she actually held team discussions in regards to the situation, and took opinions from all sides--even from Megan. Scott wouldn't do that. Too far up his own arse.

#74 Edited by Teerack (5323 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: Serious?.... I meant bits ad pieces of information.... At this point it's pretty clear you're misunderstand what I mean entirely and don't really want to explain it.

Wow the illogical connections you're making couldn't have been made any more amusing by your condescending tone, so thanks for that. Oh man the fact you didn't pick up on the tension in some of those scenes to the point where you actually believe "she wasn't pressured at all." Especially considering there are pictures to go along with the words. xD

My god, I really can't even wrap my head around it when people have that low of a comprehensive reading level...

Also let point out the irony of you letting your personal feelings get the better of you when in an argument that used to be about weather or not Storm lets her personal feelings get the better of her.

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#75 Posted by RustyRoy (10859 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops definitely.

#76 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio
#77 Edited by Calvalier (50 posts) - - Show Bio

cyclops is the only answer.

#78 Edited by Arkhamc1tizen (2113 posts) - - Show Bio

Prof x

#79 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio

#80 Posted by jhazzroucher (15062 posts) - - Show Bio

Going for Ororo Munroe aka Storm.

#81 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio
#82 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3449 posts) - - Show Bio

#83 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Mm. Wolverine isn't a leader.

well, he has been. But, no I don't think he's the ideal choice, I was just posting this because I don't think the X-men (or anyone, for that matter) should have just one ultimate leader. I do think Wolverine's more than capable of leading, if need be, but he seems to fit more naturally into the role of a co-leader, as he's been (essentially) for both Cyclops and Storm, whom I consider to be equally matched in leadership qualities.

#84 Posted by HAWK2916 (1585 posts) - - Show Bio

I say it should be Professor X, Cyclops and Storm running it together.

#85 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: "He has been" isn't saying much.There've been a lot of X-Leaders, Wolverine hasn't done anything substantial for the team other than self-indignantly kill on the d-low and open up a school, which isn't something spectacular, because that's the new fad--his accomplishments and leadership skill pales in comparison to the others, even young Prodigy's a better leader than him.

He's not a leader, he's a follower.

#86 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio

well, he has been. But, no I don't think he's the ideal choice, I was just posting this because I don't think the X-men (or anyone, for that matter) should have just one ultimate leader. I do think Wolverine's more than capable of leading, if need be, but he seems to fit more naturally into the role of a co-leader, as he's been (essentially) for both Cyclops and Storm, whom I consider to be equally matched in leadership qualities.

@oldnightcrawler: "He has been" isn't saying much.There've been a lot of X-Leaders, Wolverine hasn't done anything substantial for the team other than self-indignantly kill on the d-low and open up a school, which isn't something spectacular, because that's the new fad--his accomplishments and leadership skill pales in comparison to the others, even young Prodigy's a better leader than him.

He's not a leader, he's a follower.

I think putting himself in the role of protector of young mutants, public figurehead of the school, and member of the Avengers (did you see the beating he took in UA #4?) is at least as substantial as what any other X-men have been doing.

Like I said, I don't think leadership is a role that he feels natural in, but I do think there's a reason both Storm and Cyclops have left him in charge at various times; even if it's only that they know he'll do anything to protect the team, it's certainly not for nothing.

#87 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Mm. A school he's not all that bothered to supervise, except when matters of paramount irrelevance are concerned. Lovely how things are turning out, aren't they ?

Point is; he's not a leader, it doesn't take much to have anyone assume that role--it's not just about bossing people around and giving orders or taking the position out of obfuscated pity, or setting up some institution simply because you felt the need to prove some contrived point, you need to naturally have that charismatic effect on the mass(es), not just because you're some honorary veteran, but because the respect and trust gained from the people is organic and automatic--Wolverine doesn't fit the criteria, atm, he's just a forced character.

#88 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio

I think putting himself in the role of protector of young mutants, public figurehead of the school, and member of the Avengers (did you see the beating he took in UA #4?) is at least as substantial as what any other X-men have been doing.

Like I said, I don't think leadership is a role that he feels natural in, but I do think there's a reason both Storm and Cyclops have left him in charge at various times; even if it's only that they know he'll do anything to protect the team, it's certainly not for nothing.

@oldnightcrawler: Mm. A school he's not all that bothered to supervise, except when matters of paramount irrelevance are concerned. Lovely how things are turning out, aren't they ?

Point is; he's not a leader, it doesn't take much to have anyone assume that role--it's not just about bossing people around and giving orders or taking the position out of obfuscated pity, or setting up some institution simply because you felt the need to prove some contrived point, you need to naturally have that charismatic effect on the mass(es), not just because you're some honorary veteran, but because the respect and trust gained from the people is organic and automatic--Wolverine doesn't fit the criteria, atm, he's just a forced character.

yeah, well... that's just, like, you're opinion, man..

#89 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7261 posts) - - Show Bio
#90 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio

hahahaha!

hey, I just didn't want to spend another hour arguing over something we don't actually even disagree about.

#91 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2113 posts) - - Show Bio

voted for prof x

#92 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4248 posts) - - Show Bio