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Edited 1 year, 3 months ago

Poll: Who doing the right thing for the mutant race (106 votes)

Cyclops, Emma and Magik etc. 54%
Logan, Storm and kitty etc 25%
Beast and the Original 5 8%
Havok and Rogue 13%
#101 Posted by time (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: I dunno, I just wanted to post a photo with a pro-Cyclops gimmick. But, Cyclops was right in the sense of how the X-Men should have gone about things, I suppose. He had the weight of his entire race on his back and people shame him for it.

Doesn't change fact, that he didn't saved the mutant race, he united them and then separating them with Wolverine.

#102 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11169 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

@arturocalakayvee said:

@time: I dunno, I just wanted to post a photo with a pro-Cyclops gimmick. But, Cyclops was right in the sense of how the X-Men should have gone about things, I suppose. He had the weight of his entire race on his back and people shame him for it.

Doesn't change fact, that he didn't saved the mutant race, he united them and then separating them with Wolverine.

It wasn't his choice to separate them. That was Wolverine's doing by leaving Utopia. And in a way he did save the mutant race because he was right about Hope the whole time while Wolverine, his X-Men, and The Avengers doubted him. Cyclops faith in hope led to Hope fusing with the phoenix while led to her breaking the M-Day curse.

#103 Edited by time (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmannflash said:

I like Wolverine more, but Cyclops is right!

How is Cyclops right in what he doing ?

@ageofhurricane is right

@ageofhurricane said:

Cyclops was right indeed, but his talk has reaped nothing. He spoke of some sort of "Revolution" and i see jack. Inconsequential blabber when you fail to back it up. Since Scott's gone off on this new-age crusade, he's done nothing of substance save get himself involved with the Avengers, again.

He's rescued all but four mutants, kay, need i remind people that he's restricted them contact to/from the outside world ? Lest his "plan" fall to pieces ? So that's the right thing for Mutantkind ? Further segregation ? Further dictatorship ? Right. It's exactly what he was crying to Storm about, his so called "plan", which usually gets blown asunder anyways. He's attention-seeking, fighting a cause that certainly does not need him anymore. Majority of you Cyclops proponents better start looking at things from different perspectives as hard as it is, you'll see what he's doing is nothing, compared to the bigger picture.

From what i've seen, it's not even about trying to save New Mutants--it's more to do with the fact that he wants to rub it in Wolverine's face, as evidenced by his arrival at the JGS, only managing to take 2 (the Cuckoos under Bendis are still evidently 1) students after all that damned trouble. Lol. This isn't anything new, he's doing precisely what Emma Frost feared: setting Mutant/Human relations to the stone age.

Isolating these mutants from everyone esle and making them more of a target then they already are. How is that doing the right think ?

#104 Posted by tikhunt (676 posts) - - Show Bio

Has anybody taken into account that maybe Xaviers dream wasn't what is best for mutantkind?

#105 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7268 posts) - - Show Bio

@tikhunt said:

Has anybody taken into account that maybe Xaviers dream wasn't what is best for mutantkind?

A bit moot cause Xavier's dream is the driving-force behind mutantkind's sustenance. In absence of Xavier(himself)'s dream they're an even bigger mess than they were with it. And the damage is all but logically repairable.

#106 Posted by tikhunt (676 posts) - - Show Bio

@tikhunt said:

Has anybody taken into account that maybe Xaviers dream wasn't what is best for mutantkind?

A bit moot cause Xavier's dream is the driving-force behind mutantkind's sustenance. In absence of Xavier(himself)'s dream they're an even bigger mess than they were with it. And the damage is all but logically repairable.

Oh no I understand that but what if instead of doing what he did and creating a squad to fight villains he could have used their powers to help the world a different way.

I guess that my point is more to do with Xavier's dream being right but the way he handled it being wrong.

#107 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6221 posts) - - Show Bio

All of them are doing it wrong. Deadpool is doing it right!

#108 Posted by adamTRMM (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

Isolating these mutants from everyone esle and making them more of a target then they already are. How is that doing the right think ?

And doing, basically, nothing, like JGS-crew does, is better?

#109 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7268 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

@time said:

Isolating these mutants from everyone esle and making them more of a target then they already are. How is that doing the right think ?

And doing, basically, nothing, like JGS-crew does, is better?

And i fail to grasp this majority-notion that the JGS is literally doing nothing. Comprehend the concept of the JGS in and of itself, then maybe you shall see.

I mean, entrenching themselves further in the regressive segregation trope, Cyclops and co. might as well be doing nothing as well.

But then this pretty much boils down to the stupidity of Schism and stupidity of a select few X-Writers.

#110 Edited by adamTRMM (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

And i fail to grasp this majority-notion that the JGS is literally doing nothing. Comprehend the concept of the JGS in and of itself, then maybe you shall see.

Actually, one school for mutants cannot contain all the mutants now popping up through the world, if they'll "go bigger" I'll take my words back, by now they are basically sit on their asses. As I said, by now.

I mean, entrenching themselves further in the regressive segregation trope, Cyclops and co. might as well be doing nothing as well.

Segregating or not, new mutants do get the "very welcomes" Cyclops was waiting for, so I don't really see your point.

But then this pretty much boils down to the stupidity of Schism and stupidity of a select few X-Writers.

With that I cannot argue.

#111 Posted by waezi2 (6870 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt said:

X-Factor.

The rest of the mutants are all idiots, written by idiots and edited by idiots.

What he said, even though I haven't read X-Factor. Probably should, since Colossus is in it.

#112 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7268 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm:

If the populous shows an evident accretion akin to levels of Morrison's run then i'm more than sure that the JGS would accommodate for such a boom in the mutant amount, but as of now, new mutants are only just about popping up every so often. They're increasing, but slowly. And it's a school where the next gen. of mutantkind learn to cope and process the exploits of every day 'human' life. And teachers teach those students, so no, they're not sitting on any of their arses.

And Cyclops prohibited the use of mobile phones and communicative devices from his home base when one of the new mutants attempted to ring a family member. That's not much a "very welcomes" if you ask me (if i even interpreted that post correctly).

#113 Edited by BrokenSpear (189 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane:

I think he was referring to the welcome that humanity would give them. That being said if we look at how sticking to Xaviers rote teachings has helped the mutant cause then i think we'd all agree that it hasn't affected much at all.

Cyclops is trying a different method, one that i think combines the lessons of charles and magneto. His goal is to help humanity as best as he can while at the same time promising retaliation on those whose goal is to hurt mutants; and the people that join him are are being trained to fight back hard when the inevitable happens (i.e. when someone tries to exterminate mutant kind again).

Wolverine and friends are sticking to the same methods that have been the defining characteristic of the x-men since their inception. How many times has the institute been attacked and destroyed though, how many kids have to die before they realize that being a public gathering place for mutants essentially paints a giant X on their house for their enemies to find?

Havoc and co. while they haven't actively tried to help mutants are doing something that the x-men could never really achieve, by combining forces with the avengers they're putting mutants in the spotlight and showing the public that they can be heroes too. On a side note that pr speech he pulled was kind of lame.

#114 Posted by adamTRMM (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

If the populous shows an evident accretion akin to levels of Morrison's run then i'm more than sure that the JGS would accommodate for such a boom in the mutant amount, but as of now, new mutants are only just about popping up every so often. They're increasing, but slowly. And it's a school where the next gen. of mutantkind learn to cope and process the exploits of every day 'human' life. And teachers teach those students, so no, they're not sitting on any of their arses.

And who said humans are going to accept them in their "human life"? As I've stated so many times, I don't understand how logical can this hatred be, but that's what "panel" shows us pretty much. So, basically, they're teaching them something this new generation may won't be able to utilize. Are they working on mutant image? Are they making mutant term less fearful? What are their achievements? While Cyclops at least was shown saving new mutants from incompetent forces tried to imprison them, just because of what they are. I actually consider it a bad writing, because governments would already know how to treat this situation (no matter justly or not), those policemen were clearly operating on their regular scale without real knowledge, what to do and READY to pull the trigger. You don't read Uncanny I guess.

And Cyclops prohibited the use of mobile phones and communicative devices from his home base when one of the new mutants attempted to ring a family member. That's not much a "very welcomes" if you ask me (if i even interpreted that post correctly).

A wise precautionary measure of somebody, who doesn't want his operation base to be revealed. Phones are being tracked and everybody knows that, the very pretense of which in their place endangers their secret, not a bad writing btw.

I referred to very welcomes in the answer above.

Havoc and co. while they haven't actively tried to help mutants are doing something that the x-men could never really achieve, by combining forces with the avengers they're putting mutants in the spotlight and showing the public that they can be heroes too. On a side note that pr speech he pulled was kind of lame.

Bull, Cyclops was an almost reality star past years, it didn't help him much :) But now, that the Avengers are with them everybody will start to like mutants, bc Captain America said so! Dam...

#115 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7268 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane:

I think he was referring to the welcome that humanity would give them. That being said if we look at how sticking to Xaviers rote teachings has helped the mutant cause then i think we'd all agree that it hasn't affected much at all.

Cyclops is trying a different method, one that i think combines the lessons of charles and magneto. His goal is to help humanity as best as he can while at the same time promising retaliation on those whose goal is to hurt mutants; and the people that join him are are being trained to fight back hard when the inevitable happens (i.e. when someone tries to exterminate mutant kind again).

Wolverine and friends are sticking to the same methods that have been the defining characteristic of the x-men since their inception. How many times has the institute been attacked and destroyed though, how many kids have to die before they realize that being a public gathering place for mutants essentially paints a giant X on their house for their enemies to find?

Havoc and co. while they haven't actively tried to help mutants are doing something that the x-men could never really achieve, by combining forces with the avengers they're putting mutants in the spotlight and showing the public that they can be heroes too. On a side note that pr speech he pulled was kind of lame.

It probably hasn't helped a great deal since the HoM and the end of Morrison's run as the landscape was changed beyond comprehension and they had bigger things to deal with than subjugated doctrines, but while he was around and while he was acting on his own accord as a full-on representative of the mutant cause, the reaped benefits--more than had been imagined--in abundance. The Dream still possess credibility and influence, in one way or another, it's what they're all fighting for.

Cyclops and co. aren't doing anything different or worthwhile. They're essentially invoking the stereotypical world-view of mutants being nothing more than delinquent terrorists and are consciously taking on that mantle. Yeah, they're 'saving' new mutants and taking them to their secret base in wherever, but how, exactly, is this ideology any different than Wolverine's (or what the X-Men have been essentially doing for years?) ? I mean, ofc at this point both their stances during the Schism have been negated as they've both done things to contradict themselves, but still--Scott's just wasting his time. Mutants don't really need him if this is all he's got to offer. Some vanity project and a poor attempt at desperate attention-seeking.

Lol. Havok's team is nothing new. The world has been shown, time and again just how beneficial mutants are to society. Their mandate has of yet to be the drivng-force of any of their missions and at this point in time, it's the last thing on their minds. He's not doing anything new, either. In fact it's just a rehash of Storm's XSE.

#116 Posted by BrokenSpear (189 posts) - - Show Bio
@adamtrmm said:

Havoc and co. while they haven't actively tried to help mutants are doing something that the x-men could never really achieve, by combining forces with the avengers they're putting mutants in the spotlight and showing the public that they can be heroes too. On a side note that pr speech he pulled was kind of lame.

Bull, Cyclops was an almost reality star past years, it didn't help him much :) But now, that the Avengers are with them everybody will start to like mutants, bc Captain America said so! Dam...

One of the problems that seems to be a recurring issue in regards to the x-men is that no matter what they do, whether it's saving the world or or saving a city, it gets disregarded by the media and/or the us gov't.

I think the last time they actually got credit for something (other than their exploits in san francisco) was when they fought the adversary at eagle plaza.

#117 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7268 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

@ageofhurricane said:

If the populous shows an evident accretion akin to levels of Morrison's run then i'm more than sure that the JGS would accommodate for such a boom in the mutant amount, but as of now, new mutants are only just about popping up every so often. They're increasing, but slowly. And it's a school where the next gen. of mutantkind learn to cope and process the exploits of every day 'human' life. And teachers teach those students, so no, they're not sitting on any of their arses.

And who said humans are going to accept them in their "human life"? As I've stated so many times, I don't understand how logical can this hatred be, but that's what "panel" shows us pretty much. So, basically, they're teaching them something this new generation may won't be able to utilize. Are they working on mutant image? Are they making mutant term less fearful? What are their achievements? While Cyclops at least was shown saving new mutants from incompetent forces tried to imprison them, just because of what they are. I actually consider it a bad writing, because governments would already know how to treat this situation (no matter justly or not), those policemen were clearly operating on their regular scale without real knowledge, what to do and READY to pull the trigger. You don't read Uncanny I guess.

And Cyclops prohibited the use of mobile phones and communicative devices from his home base when one of the new mutants attempted to ring a family member. That's not much a "very welcomes" if you ask me (if i even interpreted that post correctly).

A wise

precautionary measure of somebody, who doesn't want his operation base to be revealed. Phones are being tracked and everybody knows that, the very pretense of which in their place endangers their secret, not a bad writing btw.

I referred to very welcomes in the answer above.

Havoc and co. while they haven't actively tried to help mutants are doing something that the x-men could never really achieve, by combining forces with the avengers they're putting mutants in the spotlight and showing the public that they can be heroes too. On a side note that pr speech he pulled was kind of lame.

Bull, Cyclops was an almost reality star past years, it didn't help him much :) But now, that the Avengers are with them everybody will start to like mutants, bc Captain America said so! Dam...

Be the change you'd want to be. I'd hope that sometime in the future the next generation of X-Men get off of their own arses and see to it that the human--mutant gap starts to get bridged, cause it can happen but i don't think this is a fight for the veteran X-Men anymore. BOTA is a perfect example of just how blind they've become and how far off the rails they've strayed. I've read three issues of Uncanny and a couple of All New's initial issues and saw enough--Bendis was writing it so it is bad writing.

Lol. Yeah, he's being so discreet about his operations that he never misses the opportunity to make some grandiose entrance at the JGS, bobbing his head in front of Wolverine and co. in order to take a petty dig. Nor does he refrain from the tried and trudged boring, public speeches of mutant oppression and the like. He's way in over his head, again. But this time he's not getting anywhere with it.

#118 Posted by BrokenSpear (189 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane:

I see your point and i actually don't have a problem with xaviers methods as i see it to be the most effective way of promoting peaceful co-existence between humans and mutants. The main problem is (most definitely due to storytelling needs) that humanity ain't buying it.

In regards to cyclops' methods i don't think he'll be able to keep it up for long. History has shown us that when the marginalized show their teeth, those in power do their best to strap em down and pull them out. And while I don't think cyclops is going to go full on jihadi, i do think that when another threat to mutant kind pops up he's gonna do his best to squash it while it's in it's infancy.

We know that mutants have been beneficial to mankind, and there are some things they've done that the world can't ignore but alot of their exploits are disregarded by the media and even though havoc and co haven't done much to further mutant/human relations, a group of mutants standing side by side with "the good guys" isn't gonna hurt their public image.

All this is pretty much moot though. Schism was stupid, avx was retarded and the writers were obviously running out of fresh ideas. That being said, i still like uncanny x-men.

#119 Posted by mechem_93 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops is winning. Clearly the mutant race is doomed.

#120 Posted by Tohoma (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops is winning. Clearly the mutant race is doomed.

Whats wrong with Cyclops?

#121 Posted by adamTRMM (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

One of the problems that seems to be a recurring issue in regards to the x-men is that no matter what they do, whether it's saving the world or or saving a city, it gets disregarded by the media and/or the us gov't.

I think the last time they actually got credit for something (other than their exploits in san francisco) was when they fought the adversary at eagle plaza.

Yeah, I understand and I cannot argue with that, BUT this discredit the X-men get over the eternal loop, is exactly the bad writing that has to stop. Because, if on panel shows us how Avengers received their love and respect back in a couple of years, how can we call it, if X-men couldn't for 50 years? This is one dam lazy writing, nothing that has to do with discrimination.

Be the change you'd want to be. I'd hope that sometime in the future the next generation of X-Men get off of their own arses and see to it that the human--mutant gap starts to get bridged, cause it can happen but i don't think this is a fight for the veteran X-Men anymore. BOTA is a perfect example of just how blind they've become and how far off the rails they've strayed. I've read three issues of Uncanny and a couple of All New's initial issues and saw enough--Bendis was writing it so it is bad writing.

Lol. Yeah, he's being so discreet about his operations that he never misses the opportunity to make some grandiose entrance at the JGS, bobbing his head in front of Wolverine and co. in order to take a petty dig. Nor does he refrain from the tried and trudged boring, public speeches of mutant oppression and the like. He's way in over his head, again. But this time he's not getting anywhere with it.

Never said I like Bendis' writing, he has some nice moments, but in overall, no, I dislike his pretty much everything else. Something we do agree. But, we have to define our opinion by what this current writers have given to us, and from what I see JGS-crew did not change anything while Cyclops took new direction, no matter good or bad, he was proven right on panel, that's pretty much the point.

#122 Edited by BloodTalon (430 posts) - - Show Bio

No one is. Why? Because there is no "mutant" race.

Let me ask you a few questions. What makes a group a "race" and not just a group? If 2 black people have an offspring will that offspring be black? In Marvel can 2 humans have a "mutant" offspring? In Marvel can 2 mutants have a human offspring? The answer to the last one is yes for thous that did not know Ravine Darkhoelm and Victor Creed had a human son.

So the "mutant race" is nonexistent and the sooner all parties involved realise this the better.

#123 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

At this point, even though she gets more involved later, I'd have to say Jubilee. She's got the right priority, focusing on her kid. Also, I think the New Mutants are still saying out of the ongoing schism nonsense and just doing good while living their lives. That's the approach I'd take. The grand gestures aren't really helping mutants because they're inherently alienating. Even Havok's extreme call for mutant assimilation ("mutation blindness"?) is coming from a not-so-down-to-earth position of Avengers leader (and is just wrong-headed generally).

#124 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7268 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm: And you've nothing much to solidify your point. Everything Cyclops has shown thus far on panel pretty much negates it. It's a pointless vanity project with cloudy motivation and premise. Wolverine and Cyclops, at the core of things, are basically mimicking eachother. The JGS included, if not more so.

@brokenspear:

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments, but most definitely wish things would be going in a more imaginative direction as a whole for the X-Franchise, though having just read Spurrier's interview in regards to his upcoming X-Force series (not sure if you're aware of that) the hope of creativity still stands strong within my heart.

Looking to touch and breach the boundaries of mutantkind's boundaries and conspirate controversies. We'll see, anyways.

#125 Posted by adamTRMM (1339 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm: And you've nothing much to solidify your point. Everything Cyclops has shown thus far on panel pretty much negates it. It's a pointless vanity project with cloudy motivation and premise. Wolverine and Cyclops, at the core of things, are basically mimicking eachother. The JGS included, if not more so.

Saving young mutants from oppressing treatment? Check. Receiving some support, which I don't really recall since Morrison? Check. That was pretty much it before BOTA started. I've mentioned many times how I'm against this "opressed and mistreated" image. Can't say I'm 100% well with what's going on, but from what we have, this is the best direction.