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#1 Posted by time (5029 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it would be good idea to create a thread where we talk about who is strongest and most powerful X-Men characters and who is the weakest X-Men characters. There are loads of mutants in the universe, so how about we focus on the main ones, the most popular.

All X-Men are fully powered, Emma and Scott have there and the none of the original 5 around, do we have the main Jean Grey.

Here is my lists, of the X-Men

1) Jean Grey

2) Magneto

3) Charles Xavier

4) Cable (fully powered)

5) Storm

6) Emma Frost/Psylocke

7) Rachel Grey

8) Iceman/Porlais

9) Wolverine

10) Kitty/ Colossus

I have left out Cyclops, Archangel, Havok, Rogue, Magik and Nightcrawler and Jubilee, cause I'm not sure where to put them.

The weakest X-Men characters are.

Gambit

Bishop and Beast.

I also left out Cannonball in the top lists

What do you guys think.

#2 Posted by Jamm313 (28 posts) - - Show Bio

For the strongest to me its a tie between Magneto, Jean, and Storm. I would have loved to see Magneto or Storm be apart of the Phoenix 5.

#3 Edited by chiq (1965 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do so many people think Storm is one of the most powerful x-men? I mean sure she's powerful in a conventional sense but you have the Phoenix avatars, Darwin, Legion, Magik, Iceman, Shaman X-man, Juggernaut, Demon Colossus, Hope, other Omega level mutants, Warlock, Vulcan, Tempus, Xavier, Danger, Sunfire, Magneto, Rachel, etc...

I guess if it's popularity and power, Storm would be up there since a lot of the popular x-men tend to be the less powerful ones.

#4 Edited by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

Shaman X-Man should be way up there on that list of yours. Especially since it was canonically stated that Nate Grey (pre-shaman) was as strong as Jean with Phoenix and another time stated that his output rivaled that of Dark Phoenix, and can do everything that Cable could ever do, and more. Shaman Nate frankly outshines Messianic Cable.

#5 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

Why do so many people think Storm is one of the most powerful x-men? I mean sure she's powerful in a conventional sense but you have the Phoenix avatars, Darwin, Legion, Magik, Iceman, Shaman X-man, Juggernaut, Demon Colossus, Hope, other Omega level mutants, Warlock, Vulcan, Tempus, Xavier, Danger, Sunfire, Magneto, Rachel, etc...

I guess if it's popularity and power, Storm would be up there since a lot of the popular x-men tend to be the less powerful ones.

?

Because it's a fact. Lol. Especially compared to the majority of characters you've just listed.

Research please. And Tempus ? lololol.

#6 Edited by chiq (1965 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

@chiq said:

Why do so many people think Storm is one of the most powerful x-men? I mean sure she's powerful in a conventional sense but you have the Phoenix avatars, Darwin, Legion, Magik, Iceman, Shaman X-man, Juggernaut, Demon Colossus, Hope, other Omega level mutants, Warlock, Vulcan, Tempus, Xavier, Danger, Sunfire, Magneto, Rachel, etc...

I guess if it's popularity and power, Storm would be up there since a lot of the popular x-men tend to be the less powerful ones.

?

Because it's a fact. Lol. Especially compared to the majority of characters you've just listed.

Research please. And Tempus ? lololol.

Are you seriously saying Storm is more powerful then a majority of the characters i have listed?

#7 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Probably not and excuse me, but then that's not the topic of discussion. OP asked for the most powerful/strongest/weakest X-Men, and she falls into the category of one of the most powerful. I don't see how hard of a concept that is to comprehend even in comparison to that list, taking into consideration, like Magneto, she controls a/the fundamental forces of nature.

#8 Edited by chiq (1965 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

@chiq: Probably not and excuse me, but then that's not the topic of discussion. OP asked for the most powerful/strongest/weakest X-Men, and she falls into the category of one of the most powerful. I don't see how hard of a concept that is to comprehend even in comparison to that list, taking into consideration, like Magneto, she controls a/the fundamental forces of nature.

I did say she was one of the most powerful popular x-men characters. You said she powerful especially compared to the characters I listed. Forgive me if i misunderstood you, you used the word especially which made me think you were implying that Storm's power was much greater compared to that list i gave. Storm's problem compared to Magneto is that she is a much bigger glass canon. Magneto has his shields while you get to see Storm knocked out by much less.

I never said she wasn't powerful. She is quite the powerhouse especially compared to the fan favorites like wolverine, beast and the other more traditional x-teams.

#9 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Apologies. And Storm, does, in fact possess shields, writers just never utilize them. They're called pressure domes and on that note, she utilizes wind pressure quite a lot, to the point where she's used it to contain the explosion of a baby nuke using pressures found only on Jupiter, which speaks for the strength.

Not such a glass canon as people automatically assume.

#10 Edited by chiq (1965 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by Veitha (3315 posts) - - Show Bio

Current versions and living characters? I'm not counting Jean, the Uncanny Team, Xavier or others, so...

Magik is the most powerful, Colossus or Namor are the strongest phisically, Eye Boy is the weakest.

#12 Edited by darthphoenix (763 posts) - - Show Bio

rachel and jean - most powerful

Magik

Hope- i dont think hope can copy Magik's control over limbo....can she?

Vulcan

#13 Posted by time (5029 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok guys I created this thread so we can talk about who we think are the most powerful, strongest and weakest X-Men among the core X-Men , the most popular X-Men, most know.

They are :Cyclops, Jean Grey, Beast, Iceman, Archangel, charles, Magneto, Storm, Wolverine, Kitty, Kurt, Colossus, Rogue, Gambit, Psylocke, Bishop, Jubilee, Emma Frost, Cable, Havok, Porlais, Cannonball and Magik. So only these X-Men , no one esle. If this was about all the X-Men characters, I'm sure the likes of Apocalypse, Stryfe , X-Man and vulcan would be on the list, but I just wanted to include the main X-Men. I think it would fun to include Magik in this and I don't think it would be fair not include Bishop in this. So guys, what do you think and do you agree with my list on my above post.

#14 Posted by Polarity (106 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

Ok guys I created this thread so we can talk about who we think are the most powerful, strongest and weakest X-Men among the core X-Men , the most popular X-Men, most know.

They are :Cyclops, Jean Grey, Beast, Iceman, Archangel, charles, Magneto, Storm, Wolverine, Kitty, Kurt, Colossus, Rogue, Gambit, Psylocke, Bishop, Jubilee, Emma Frost, Cable, Havok, Porlais, Cannonball and Magik. So only these X-Men , no one esle. If this was about all the X-Men characters, I'm sure the likes of Apocalypse, Stryfe , X-Man and vulcan would be on the list, but I just wanted to include the main X-Men. I think it would fun to include Magik in this and I don't think it would be fair not include Bishop in this. So guys, what do you think and do you agree with my list on my above post.

So out of the classic x-men (i.e. all x-men from 1963-1991 plus Bishop and some of the New Mutants), Jean or Rachel are the most powerful, classic Angel probably the least. A lot of Magik's power comes from a non-mutant source, I guess the same could be said for Phoenix Jean and Rachel but they're pretty damn powerful even without it.

#15 Edited by time (5029 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you think Magik, Rachel could beat Charles and Magneto.Who would be your top 10, out of characters listed. All X-Men are fully powered.

#16 Edited by chiq (1965 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

Do you think Magik, Rachel could beat Charles and Magneto.Who would be your top 10, out of characters listed. All X-Men are fully powered.

Yes. Xavier couldn't read Magik's mind and Magik would beat Magneto if both were going all out. Magik can bring the dead back to life. (she didn't bring Colossus back to life in that scan though...since he wasn't dead to begin with)

PF Rachel obviously would win also. I am not sure about standard Rachel without the PF.

#17 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

Current versions and living characters? I'm not counting Jean, the Uncanny Team, Xavier or others, so...

Magik is the most powerful, Colossus or Namor are the strongest phisically, Eye Boy is the weakest.

This sounds about right

#18 Posted by MistressOfTheElements (514 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Because, In my eyes she is her powers is limited to her will and her will only.She can summon up a hurricane in a hot second.She can fly as the speed as the wind.She also can create a mini tornado near a object to levitate it.She can sense weather and the exact forcast of it.She can can bend light and water to become transparent. She can create a dome of air to protect her like she did in Wolverine And the X-Men.She can do so much more than I stated above though..:)

#19 Edited by chiq (1965 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix said:

rachel and jean - most powerful

Magik

Hope- i dont think hope can copy Magik's control over limbo....can she?

Vulcan

Does hope have any examples of copying a non mutant power lately? Although Bendis might be trying to connect Magik's mutant powers directly to Limbo and not just her teleportation. If that happens, Hope should be able to copy those as well...

#20 Posted by Perethorn (3401 posts) - - Show Bio

The most powerful are Phoenix, Magneto, Xavier, Rogue and Emma Frost.

The strongest are Colossus and Juggernaut

The weakest are Toad and Kitty Pryde

#21 Posted by IllyanaRasputin (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

This is based on opinion mostly and fan favourites. EVERY mutant has a hidden talent that makes them stronger than the next. People saying Gambit is the weakest is absurd because, not even being a Gambit fan, but he is a powerful mutant who has taken out a lot of other X-Men. Same with Kitty Pryde, she is not a weak character, she could rip someones heart out and they'd be dead if she really wanted to.

Anyway, pointless thread.

#22 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Because, In my eyes she is her powers is limited to her will and her will only.She can summon up a hurricane in a hot second.She can fly as the speed as the wind.She also can create a mini tornado near a object to levitate it.She can sense weather and the exact forcast of it.She can can bend light and water to become transparent. She can create a dome of air to protect her like she did in Wolverine And the X-Men.She can do so much more than I stated above though..:)

While I do agree Storm is one of the more powerful Xmen, it doesn't matter how strong her will is, she can't create a hurricane in space, she can't make it rain on a desert planet with 0 moisture, she can't make it snow on the Sun and there are other things she can't do. She is limited by more than her will, she is limited by environment.

#23 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Will (for crying out loud) and environment have nothing to do with it. The one thing that places any real limit, is her body.

#24 Posted by Extremis (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

Well the weakest right now is Charles Xavier...

#25 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

This is based on opinion mostly and fan favourites. EVERY mutant has a hidden talent that makes them stronger than the next. People saying Gambit is the weakest is absurd because, not even being a Gambit fan, but he is a powerful mutant who has taken out a lot of other X-Men. Same with Kitty Pryde, she is not a weak character, she could rip someones heart out and they'd be dead if she really wanted to.

Anyway, pointless thread.

I gotta say I am in agreement with this. The fact that every X-Men member brings something unique to the table is what makes the team work. And everybody has a character in which they identify with, and rally behind. Whether it's Cyclops, Storm, Gambit, Kitty, Wolverine, Emma, etc., you will find that each character has it's own fan base, and will put that character on a pedestal.

I always wonder why we always try to determine who's better than who when all the X-Men are (supposed to be) team players who work best when in conjunction with others who best compliment their power sets.

#26 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@perethorn: kitty pryde? the weakest? really? she pulled phoenix emma's heart out.

#27 Posted by Osiris1428 (1349 posts) - - Show Bio

Depending on how much stored bio-energy he has, Bishop is not at all weak.

#28 Edited by Jg0587 (44 posts) - - Show Bio

For those saying its a pointless thread/debate, I tend to agree in a logical sense. But it's an xmen forum to discuss a work of fiction so I think it's still fun to sepculate.

As an observer here without nearly enough knowledge to rank some of the mutants, I enjoy when people post scans to back their claims up.

That being said, I'm sure people can use scans from different writers' depiction of characters to contradict one another, so even scans of "evidence" from comics aren't fool-proof. But as an observer it helps convince me to an extent.

Anywho, I enjoy watching and seeing the " evidence" folks bring to the table :D

#29 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

Depending on how much stored bio-energy he has, Bishop is not at all weak.

Quite right, far from it, in fact, even without bio-energy.

#30 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Will (for crying out loud) and environment have nothing to do with it. The one thing that places any real limit, is her body.

How exactly can environment have nothing to do with what limits a weather manipulating power has? Her power is not magical and relies on preexisting atmospheric conditions, without them she would be limited. As I said she can't create a hurricane in space, that is a limitation dictated by the environment she is in.

#31 Edited by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Most powerful:

(Not in order and including past/present X-Men/various affiliated teams)

  • Jean Grey
  • Iceman
  • Rachel Grey
  • Polaris
  • Storm
  • Hellion
  • Elixir
  • Vulcan (Well, not anymore...)
  • Quentin Quire
  • Psylocke
  • Xavier (Well, not anymore...)
  • Legion
  • Emma Frost (Post P5, not sure)
  • Magneto (Post P5, not sure)
  • Magik (Seemingly, yes. However, most of it's magic-based and it seems that she's not entirely in control)
  • X-Man (Well, not anymore...) (By extension, an non-TO virus-infected Cable)
  • Hope
  • Rogue
  • Genesis
  • Rockslide? He has the potential to be extremely powerful
  • NuAngel? He's done some pretty interesting feats since his rebirth

Weakest:

  • Cypher (People may disagree, but before his resurrection he was most definitely the weakest X-character)
  • Doctor Nemesis
  • Madison Jeffries
  • Kavita Rao (If she's considered an X-Man)
  • Nurse Annie (If she's considered an X-Man)
  • Wraith
  • Eye-Boy
  • Angel Salvador
  • Dummy
  • Beak
  • DJ
  • Aero
  • Audio
  • Butterfly
  • Cephalopod
  • Choir
  • Contact
  • Dummy?
  • Elanor Sandford
  • Forearm
  • Gelatin
  • Radian
  • Imp
  • Iolanthe
  • Kertain
  • Long Neck
  • Ugly John
  • Lipid
  • Pinnochio
  • Naiad
  • Overlay
  • Redneck
  • Pinpoint
  • Polymer
  • Protozoa
  • Pulse (His power is useful, but pretty weak)
  • Skylark
  • Ruth Durie
  • Sammy Pare
  • Spirit
  • Updraft
  • View
  • Viscid
  • Wing
#32 Posted by chiq (1965 posts) - - Show Bio

A lot of people seem to forget about Warlock. In terms of sheer power and potential he would really be up there vying for the title of most powerful new mutant along side Magik and Nate. Shaman x-man, Darkchilde and Warlock going all Magus on everyone would arguably make the New Mutants such a powerful team.

#33 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

A lot of people seem to forget about Warlock. In terms of sheer power and potential he would really be up there vying for the title of most powerful new mutant along side Magik and Nate. Shaman x-man, Darkchilde and Warlock going all Magus on everyone would arguably make the New Mutants such a powerful team.

Shame he's such an irritating and odious character.

#34 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Because weather patterns are everywhere and the present environment doesn't pose as much a barrier to overcome as much as her body does, in terms of how powerful she can become, which is the point of the OP.

If she isn't accustomed to an extraterrestrial environment, then it won't take long for her to adapt to the environment and/or planet to work with what's available as opposed to just head-on manipulation. Making it rain on the sun is a bit hyperbolic and well beyond her current reach, and she wouldn't need to create a hurricane in space as she can control the solar winds, among other things.

She does her best work in an atmosphere.

#35 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, forgot to add Xorn.

#36 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

@lordofallhumans: Because weather patterns are everywhere and the present environment doesn't pose as much a barrier to overcome as much as her body does, in terms of how powerful she can become, which is the point of the OP.

If she isn't accustomed to an extraterrestrial environment, then it won't take long for her to adapt to the environment and/or planet to work with what's available as opposed to just head-on manipulation. Making it rain on the sun is a bit hyperbolic and well beyond her current reach, and she wouldn't need to create a hurricane in space as she can control the solar winds, among other things.

She does her best work in an atmosphere.

It doesn't matter if she needed to make a hurricane in space, she can't do it which means being in space does limit her powers, because there are things she can't do there. She can do other things in space but she can't do that. Making it rain (snow) on the sun is not that hyperbolic in worlds with reality warpers, all in all it is a limit that she will always have (because of the location she can't create the conditions needed to make snow or rain) unless she becomes a reality warper.

I'm not taking away from how her powers work and am fully aware of her ability to attune to other environments, my point is if those environments do not support certain phenomena then she cannot create it and thus her powers become limited due to the environment. You seem to be under the impression that I am talking about her strength when I say limited, I'm talking about the feats she can accomplish which will change.

You are also arguing my post as if I said her body has nothing to do with her limits. What I want to know is how can environment not be one of her limitations? In the event that the atmosphere is limited, if there is only enough water and moisture in an entire environment to fill a bucket of water, then Storm cannot cause a flood, she is limited by the environment in this instance. She even makes reference to using her powers being more difficult when she in on the Blue Area of the Moon, which had a limited atmosphere, it didn't weaken her actual power, but it did make her powers more difficult to use, a limitation, that has nothing to do with her will or body.

#37 Edited by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@osiris1428 said:

Depending on how much stored bio-energy he has, Bishop is not at all weak.

But remember, Bishop can only hold so much energy before it has the opposite effect, and starts to cause him to weaken. He's not on Shaw's level.

@john_valentine said:

Shame he's such an irritating and odious character.

Yes, Self-friend. I have trouble putting up with him and by extension Cypher cause Warlock is just so silly a character for me to find interesting.

@chiq said:

A lot of people seem to forget about Warlock. In terms of sheer power and potential he would really be up there vying for the title of most powerful new mutant along side Magik and Nate. Shaman x-man, Darkchilde and Warlock going all Magus on everyone would arguably make the New Mutants such a powerful team.

Damn you, Sir or ma'am. I know not which, but you just said the two people I'd love to see interact. Given that both lines (Rasputins and Summers) have a tie to Sinister, Both have phenomenal power yet it's also the source of their problem (Illyana lost and quest to be her soul back and Nate's trying to stop his powers from killing him.), and both never really had much of a childhood. Their interaction was teased in the Fear Itself tie-in of New Mutants which sparked my interest in seeing more of the two interacting with one another.

You can just sense the awkward sexual tension. LMAO.

#38 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegreyoutcastx said:

Shame he's such an irritating and odious character.

Yes, Self-friend. I have trouble putting up with him and by extension Cypher cause Warlock is just so silly a character for me to find interesting.

I like Cypher, but I too have trouble liking him more due to his connection with Warlock.

Characters like Warlock (and that annoying robot in Excalibur) are the worst parts of the X-Men Mythos.

#39 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@john_valentine: Cypher's boost from Necrosha could have made him so much a bigger badass and actually made him relevant as a tactician and fighter, but they went away from that for the sake of his Self-friend bond to Warlock. Just a terrible choice.

#40 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6363 posts) - - Show Bio

The term "powerful" can be misleading.

Wolverine, for instance, does not belong on a "who's the most powerful X-Man" list. But if we're looking beyond just "power sets" and including an amalgamation of skills, including who's potentially the most deadly, then yeah, Wolverine's one of the foremost. If there was a mandate given to each X-Man on said list, to wipe out all the others within 24hrs ... I'd be most worried about Logan.

#41 Edited by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@john_valentine: Cypher's boost from Necrosha could have made him so much a bigger badass and actually made him relevant as a tactician and fighter, but they went away from that for the sake of his Self-friend bond to Warlock. Just a terrible choice.

Absolutely.

I like most of the characters (Dani, Cannonball, Wolfsbane and Magik especially) but so much of New Mutants Vol.1 was utter rubbish. I don't have that nostalgia for the title as I only read it a few years ago.

#42 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio

The term "powerful" can be misleading.

Wolverine, for instance, does not belong on a "who's the most powerful X-Man" list. But if we're looking beyond just "power sets" and including an amalgamation of skills, including who's potentially the most deadly, then yeah, Wolverine's one of the foremost. If there was a mandate given to each X-Man on said list, to wipe out all the others within 24hrs ... I'd be most worried about Logan.

It's not that misleading, in terms of power he is nowhere near the middle let alone the top. Being the most deadly, as you said does not have to always deal with power, so him being one of the most deadly still wouldn't earn him a spot in the most powerful list. IMO if the Xmen had to wipe each other out in 24 hrs and we are using Mutants from the above list, I wouldn't be worried about him at all.

#43 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii said:

The term "powerful" can be misleading.

Wolverine, for instance, does not belong on a "who's the most powerful X-Man" list. But if we're looking beyond just "power sets" and including an amalgamation of skills, including who's potentially the most deadly, then yeah, Wolverine's one of the foremost. If there was a mandate given to each X-Man on said list, to wipe out all the others within 24hrs ... I'd be most worried about Logan.

It's not that misleading, in terms of power he is nowhere near the middle let alone the top. Being the most deadly, as you said does not have to always deal with power, so him being one of the most deadly still wouldn't earn him a spot in the most powerful list. IMO if the Xmen had to wipe each other out in 24 hrs and we are using Mutants from the above list, I wouldn't be worried about him at all.

True story. Over half of the X-Men should be able to kill Wolverine in a real right - pretty much anyone with a moderately powerful ability with which they're relatively skilled and do not require physical contact to use.

#44 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@john_valentine: I didn't read New Mutants vol 1, and probably won't cause of all the CC worshiping that people have done with that title and his X-Men run has killed my interest which is just sad.

But as a consulation, I still get to laugh at Cypher's one weakness: Bullets. lol

#45 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegreyoutcastx said:

@john_valentine: I didn't read New Mutants vol 1, and probably won't cause of all the CC worshiping that people have done with that title and his X-Men run has killed my interest which is just sad.

But as a consulation, I still get to laugh at Cypher's one weakness: Bullets. lol

There are still a few good outcomes; Legion, for example.

#46 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@john_valentine: I'm not a big Legion fan. Though Legion in Legacy has been rather solid.

#47 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6363 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

@lordofallhumans said:

@super_soldierxii said:

The term "powerful" can be misleading.

Wolverine, for instance, does not belong on a "who's the most powerful X-Man" list. But if we're looking beyond just "power sets" and including an amalgamation of skills, including who's potentially the most deadly, then yeah, Wolverine's one of the foremost. If there was a mandate given to each X-Man on said list, to wipe out all the others within 24hrs ... I'd be most worried about Logan.

It's not that misleading, in terms of power he is nowhere near the middle let alone the top. Being the most deadly, as you said does not have to always deal with power, so him being one of the most deadly still wouldn't earn him a spot in the most powerful list. IMO if the Xmen had to wipe each other out in 24 hrs and we are using Mutants from the above list, I wouldn't be worried about him at all.

True story. Over half of the X-Men should be able to kill Wolverine in a real right - pretty much anyone with a moderately powerful ability with which they're relatively skilled and do not require physical contact to use.

I think you both missed the point. Given 24 hours, I doubt many of them would even see him coming (they knew as much during Enemy of the State). In a head on confrontation, them having time to react, then yeah - Logan shouldn't get too far (despite his superior speed). But one as trained and as skilled as Wolverine, technically, most of them (even the TPers) wouldn't / shouldn't even see him coming.

#48 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans:

@john_valentine said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@super_soldierxii said:

The term "powerful" can be misleading.

Wolverine, for instance, does not belong on a "who's the most powerful X-Man" list. But if we're looking beyond just "power sets" and including an amalgamation of skills, including who's potentially the most deadly, then yeah, Wolverine's one of the foremost. If there was a mandate given to each X-Man on said list, to wipe out all the others within 24hrs ... I'd be most worried about Logan.

It's not that misleading, in terms of power he is nowhere near the middle let alone the top. Being the most deadly, as you said does not have to always deal with power, so him being one of the most deadly still wouldn't earn him a spot in the most powerful list. IMO if the Xmen had to wipe each other out in 24 hrs and we are using Mutants from the above list, I wouldn't be worried about him at all.

True story. Over half of the X-Men should be able to kill Wolverine in a real right - pretty much anyone with a moderately powerful ability with which they're relatively skilled and do not require physical contact to use.

I think you both missed the point. Given 24 hours, I doubt many of them would even see him coming (they knew as much during Enemy of the State). In a head on confrontation, them having time to react, then yeah - Logan shouldn't get too far (despite his superior speed). But one as trained and as skilled as Wolverine, technically, most of them (even the TPers) wouldn't / shouldn't even see him coming.

They are all given 24 hours so they would know he is coming, everybody knows everybody is coming. Telepaths have ways of sensing shielded minds, it's a little used technique that involves them looking at the gray spots that would be those with shielded minds, IIRC Jean even called it going negative or something like that. If it involves him making his thoughts too animal to sense, Jean can read animal minds and Emma has enough skill to sense the presence of insects when she noticed that she sensed nothing even small animals when Omega sentinel was psi blocking the Marauders. Jean was also a telekinetic sensitive she can sense, stop, and probe alien bullets on the molecular level, she should have no problem sensing and stopping Wolverine the same way. Cable can also launch tk probes that allowed him to know that walls were as hard as pure adamantium, sounds like he can find him too before he attacks. Storm can sense changes in air pressure and use that energy sense thing. Magneto can certainly locate him, and Beast should smell him and IMO is much faster than he is. If he had 24 hours to stalk without them knowing then he'd have better chance, but in a situation with them all having the same amount of time and knowing they are all out to get each other, I just don't see him coming out on top

Xavier has the Xavier protocols he can technically take out every member of the Xmen.

#49 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

@lordofallhumans: Because weather patterns are everywhere and the present environment doesn't pose as much a barrier to overcome as much as her body does, in terms of how powerful she can become, which is the point of the OP.

If she isn't accustomed to an extraterrestrial environment, then it won't take long for her to adapt to the environment and/or planet to work with what's available as opposed to just head-on manipulation. Making it rain on the sun is a bit hyperbolic and well beyond her current reach, and she wouldn't need to create a hurricane in space as she can control the solar winds, among other things.

She does her best work in an atmosphere.

It doesn't matter if she needed to make a hurricane in space, she can't do it which means being in space does limit her powers, because there are things she can't do there. She can do other things in space but she can't do that. Making it rain (snow) on the sun is not that hyperbolic in worlds with reality warpers, all in all it is a limit that she will always have (because of the location she can't create the conditions needed to make snow or rain) unless she becomes a reality warper.

I'm not taking away from how her powers work and am fully aware of her ability to attune to other environments, my point is if those environments do not support certain phenomena then she cannot create it and thus her powers become limited due to the environment. You seem to be under the impression that I am talking about her strength when I say limited, I'm talking about the feats she can accomplish which will change.

You are also arguing my post as if I said her body has nothing to do with her limits. What I want to know is how can environment not be one of her limitations? In the event that the atmosphere is limited, if there is only enough water and moisture in an entire environment to fill a bucket of water, then Storm cannot cause a flood, she is limited by the environment in this instance. She even makes reference to using her powers being more difficult when she in on the Blue Area of the Moon, which had a limited atmosphere, it didn't weaken her actual power, but it did make her powers more difficult to use, a limitation, that has nothing to do with her will or body.

Yes, but creating a hurricane in space in addition to making it rain on the sun (for crying out loud, again) are feats that haven't been claimed by anyone for her to do, so i'm not sure what the persistent point-stressing is all about as well as why you're deviating from the general topic. Yes, apologies, the environment she's in does matter and you're quite right with those examples, but limitations of feats are not the point of this thread--it's about power/strength--which like i said, in her case, is limited by her body.

#50 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4143 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@ageofhurricane said:

@lordofallhumans: Because weather patterns are everywhere and the present environment doesn't pose as much a barrier to overcome as much as her body does, in terms of how powerful she can become, which is the point of the OP.

If she isn't accustomed to an extraterrestrial environment, then it won't take long for her to adapt to the environment and/or planet to work with what's available as opposed to just head-on manipulation. Making it rain on the sun is a bit hyperbolic and well beyond her current reach, and she wouldn't need to create a hurricane in space as she can control the solar winds, among other things.

She does her best work in an atmosphere.

It doesn't matter if she needed to make a hurricane in space, she can't do it which means being in space does limit her powers, because there are things she can't do there. She can do other things in space but she can't do that. Making it rain (snow) on the sun is not that hyperbolic in worlds with reality warpers, all in all it is a limit that she will always have (because of the location she can't create the conditions needed to make snow or rain) unless she becomes a reality warper.

I'm not taking away from how her powers work and am fully aware of her ability to attune to other environments, my point is if those environments do not support certain phenomena then she cannot create it and thus her powers become limited due to the environment. You seem to be under the impression that I am talking about her strength when I say limited, I'm talking about the feats she can accomplish which will change.

You are also arguing my post as if I said her body has nothing to do with her limits. What I want to know is how can environment not be one of her limitations? In the event that the atmosphere is limited, if there is only enough water and moisture in an entire environment to fill a bucket of water, then Storm cannot cause a flood, she is limited by the environment in this instance. She even makes reference to using her powers being more difficult when she in on the Blue Area of the Moon, which had a limited atmosphere, it didn't weaken her actual power, but it did make her powers more difficult to use, a limitation, that has nothing to do with her will or body.

Yes, but creating a hurricane in space in addition to making it rain on the sun (for crying out loud, again) are feats that haven't been claimed by anyone for her to do, so i'm not sure what the persistent point-stressing is all about as well as why you're deviating from the general topic. Yes, apologies, the environment she's in does matter and you're quite right with those examples, but limitations of feats are not the point of this thread--it's about power/strength--which like i said, in her case, is limited by her body.

The point in stressing them is to illustrate how environment is a factor in the use of her powers. We were never discussing the general topic, a poster said her will was her only limitation, and I suggested environment would also be a limitation, because that poster went on discussing her abilities to manipulate atmospheric phenomena, then you suggested her body was her only limitation. So I've stayed on topic as far as the discussion that we were having in this thread. I also believe I said location doesn't weaken her, but it's still a limitation to what she can do. I have taken nothing from her power/strength, only explained that her full arsenal is not at her disposal when she is outside of an atmosphere or in a limited one.