I'd be more curious about Havok's reaction to his father being still alive, considering what he went through before being rescued from space by Rogue. Taking Young Scott away from the team can't be anything but bad - he's the only one who I think has his head on straight (for the most part).
the trial is slow
He was definitely the most mature and mentally stable one on the team. Like a mini-Captain America.
@avenger85 said:
He was definitely the most mature and mentally stable one on the team. Like a mini-Captain America.
That is a perfect description! Exactly.
@avenger85 said:
Meh. Teen Scott was my favourite character in the X-Men books. He's leaving the team so I will be dropping the book.
Where dit you read this? This is not mentioned in last issue was it?
@tomasmaclgh said:
Now THAT would have a little bit more sense. He died in the Fault fighting Black Bolt and he made it back...
They BURIED Corsair. I feel like punching Bendis in the face right now.
Yeah Corsair probably isn't the best choice to resurrect... Also, Hepzibah is back with the starjammers? When did this happen :p?
@adamtrmm said:
Bringing Vulcan back is pretty much the easiest resurrection that can be explained and will be 100% believable. He is (beyond)OL energy manipulator, he can reemerge/reassemble Dr. Manhattan style, but is there a place for so powerful character right now? I think his madness can also be explained power-wise, I don't think he should become a hero, but obviously he was too 1-dimensional for his great potential. Also, why isn't Sinister interested in him?
Have him burn out some of his power bringing himself back....let his whole book be about him trying to get his strength back. Hell let him go buy ice cream from the space grocery store it would be more interesting then Young Cyclops. Also Mr Sinister suffers from critical lack of reasoning... considering what his character motivation is supposed to be you'd think he'd have tubes filled with omega level breeding experiments..
@djainess It's said in the press release on the news page that he's staying in space http://www.comicvine.com/articles/new-cyclops-series-coming-by-greg-rucka/1100-148105/
@koays said:
@hexthis said:
It's funny how Claremont was so adamant Jean stayed dead and yet he tried 3 different times to get knock-off Jeans incorporated into the story and was successful twice. First, he introduced Rachel (same powers/similar appearence) then he made Maddy who was essentially Jean's evil twin and then he tried to have Sarah Grey join X-factor instead of Jean and somehow have mutant powers. As much as I like Claremont's classic arcs, he started to lose his touch after a while because all of those solutions to Jean's absence are sooooo soap operatic. This is a huge trend of Marvel's, don't resurrect Jean just throw in multiple versions of her, they never want to admit she's an asset to the X-men franchise. It's getting crazy. Mutant Zero was a Jean tease, Hope was one as well, Rachel was a sort-of Jean replacement, Maddy too, and now we have young Jean...so that's like 5 different Jeans at this point?
BUT what the hell?! Maddy can come back. Maybe she could even have a confrontation with young Jean?
ALL OF THIS.
It seems like Marvel is afraid to right a Jean Grey story because she's too powerful or they feel they'd have to incorporate the Phoenix....and yet we've gotten more Phoenix exposition when Jean isn't around then we ever did when she was. You would think that with all of the importance they seem to right about her character someone might want to try to explore what that character is.....and I don't think for a second that O5 Jean Grey counts.
@avenger85 When "Young Cyclops in Space" fails and ANX's sales drop maybe they'll realize how bad it is to rehash old storylines.
I love the "too powerful" excuse. Wolverine can die and come back every issue, Iron Man's suit can withstand and technologically manifest anything, and Thor is a flat-out god yet they've managed to find things for those guys to do. They killed Nightcrawler, they killed Cable, they killed Johnny Storm and brought them back almost instantaneously but at the idea of Jean coming back after a decade plus people are like "NOOOO! SHE MUST REMAIN DEAD! IT SHALL NEVER COME TO PASS!".
If they really cared Jean was too powerful they'd just have her remain telekinetic and telepathic with more reliance on her physical prowess like Psylocke. But instead they merged her with the Phoenix in "Endsong"! They could care less. "We need to promote Guardians of the Galaxy by familiarizing our readers....trot out Jean's corpse! People aren't reading Uncanny, let's not fire Greg Land, just elude to Jean's return somehow. Crap, we need Second Coming to sell really well...make Hope look like Jean a couple times in the covers!"
@hexthis: For some reason they think she's more interesting dead then alive. And like you say, they bring out Jean's corpse everytime Quesada throws a party and know one rsvp's. They think she's a better marketing tool dead, because they can post a picture of a phoenix costume on any cover and get a boost in sales. But the problem is that people who actually remember Jean the character know that this person had more stories that could've and needed to be told about her.
But no, it's easier to just remind readers that Jean exist by naming a school after her, or having characters fight about her, and putting all of this importance on her life as a character when the writers were to scared to do anything with her that didn't involve worrying about scott or the phoenix.
@koays said:
Have him burn out some of his power bringing himself back....let his whole book be about him trying to get his strength back. Hell let him go buy ice cream from the space grocery store it would be more interesting then Young Cyclops. Also Mr Sinister suffers from critical lack of reasoning... considering what his character motivation is supposed to be you'd think he'd have tubes filled with omega level breeding experiments..
Yes to all of this, there are so many unknown and unexplored plots and subjects, yet we get lOw5 and while one of them even gets a solo now, and all this sell well! Low-quality fan-standards and their blind devotion to generic over-used characters is the second enemy (the first are troll-writers :)), I swear. Legacy sold around 20000 copies per issue, while ANXM sells around 70000, where is the logic?!
As for Jean Grey, no please. I can already see the pathetic "Oh my love, what have you become!" "I'm sorry dear, it's your perfection wasn't around so I'll know when to slap myself." meh
@adamtrmm said:
@koays said:
Have him burn out some of his power bringing himself back....let his whole book be about him trying to get his strength back. Hell let him go buy ice cream from the space grocery store it would be more interesting then Young Cyclops. Also Mr Sinister suffers from critical lack of reasoning... considering what his character motivation is supposed to be you'd think he'd have tubes filled with omega level breeding experiments..
Yes to all of this, there are so many unknown and unexplored plots and subjects, yet we get lOw5 and while one of them even gets a solo now, and all this sell well! Low-quality fan-standards and their blind devotion to generic over-used characters is the second enemy (the first are troll-writers :)), I swear. Legacy sold around 20000 copies per issue, while ANXM sells around 70000, where is the logic?!
As for Jean Grey, no please. I can already see the pathetic "Oh my love, what have you become!" "I'm sorry dear, it's your perfection wasn't around so I'll know when to slap myself." meh
The thing is, issue by issue ANXM is pretty good, and probably simpler for some readers to understand then what was happening in Legacy, but more then likely it's ANXM's colorful art. The difference is Legacy told a story while All New X-Men is sort of a series of strange events that haven't amounted to anything in a year....I mean they haven't even confronted the Scott or called Beast out for lying to them, stuff just happens and we get a "tune in next time in the hopes someone might answer your questions".
With Jean, I've always been a fan of her character, but the idea that with all the characterization that Cyclops, Beast, even Storm have had since she died, the only stories ever written about Jean were about the Phoenix or Scott....it's sad. I'm not saying I don't wanna see her reaction to the events since she died, but I bang my head everytime someone mentions how special Jean was and even as a fan or her's my first thought is "All she did was smile and get possessed and now she has a school named after her?!?!?".
Jean deserves to be explored more, and story wise the narrative needs it.
@koays said:
With Jean, I've always been a fan of her character, but the idea that with all the characterization that Cyclops, Beast, even Storm have had since she died, the only stories ever written about Jean were about the Phoenix or Scott....it's sad. I'm not saying I don't wanna see her reaction to the events since she died, but I bang my head everytime someone mentions how special Jean was and even as a fan or her's my first thought is "All she did was smile and get possessed and now she has a school named after her?!?!?".
Jean deserves to be explored more, and story wise the narrative needs it.
Jean has practically become the ultimate Woman in a Refrigerator, perhaps even more so than Gwen Stacy. She isn't remembered or reflected upon for having any distinct qualities, just for dying young, beautiful, and perfect and for filling both Scott and Logan's tormented hearts with angst. Jean is only ever explored to further Logan or Scott's pathos or to canonize her using the Phoenix force. Her death means less and less because it's beginning to define her, it's as though all anybody can see of her character is her relationship with the Phoenix force, her sacrifice, and Scott & Wolvie's unresolved grief.
Jean is much, much, much less interesting dead. She needs to come back and go through something similar to Magik where she's entirely disassociated with humanly concerns and disassociated with the Phoenix, darker and less goody-goody than she had been. She needs to be rebuilt from the ground up because there's so much potential in her character.
@hexthis said:
@koays said:
With Jean, I've always been a fan of her character, but the idea that with all the characterization that Cyclops, Beast, even Storm have had since she died, the only stories ever written about Jean were about the Phoenix or Scott....it's sad. I'm not saying I don't wanna see her reaction to the events since she died, but I bang my head everytime someone mentions how special Jean was and even as a fan or her's my first thought is "All she did was smile and get possessed and now she has a school named after her?!?!?".
Jean deserves to be explored more, and story wise the narrative needs it.
Jean has practically become the ultimate Woman in a Refrigerator, perhaps even more so than Gwen Stacy. She isn't remembered or reflected upon for having any distinct qualities, just for dying young, beautiful, and perfect and for filling both Scott and Logan's tormented hearts with angst. Jean is only ever explored to further Logan or Scott's pathos or to canonize her using the Phoenix force. Her death means less and less because it's beginning to define her, it's as though all anybody can see of her character is her relationship with the Phoenix force, her sacrifice, and Scott & Wolvie's unresolved grief.
Jean is much, much, much less interesting dead. She needs to come back and go through something similar to Magik where she's entirely disassociated with humanly concerns and disassociated with the Phoenix, darker and less goody-goody than she had been. She needs to be rebuilt from the ground up because there's so much potential in her character.
I wouldn't say it even needs to go that far. If they want to explore Jean as Phoenix , then they should do it through the eyes of her character for once instead of people telling horrified war stories about why someone gaining Phoenix power is bad.
But more then that, I'd just like for her to be a regular character who gets explored and defined more. The most personality Jean had, was when she came back for X-Factor and she was trying to define herself after death, but after that no one really touched on her...why not have a few stories where we actually figure out if there is something she doesn't like or she gets an enemy or a story arc about her and not about the phoenix or other characters.
I mean If they want to bring back Jean as the always smiling super psychic, at least give it to us from her point of view so we can know why she is that way.
I don't like the possibility of where the trial is going. I dont want marvel to pursue the BOTA future timeline. It would negate the future victory over apocalypse or the sentinels in which Rachel and the summers family all worked so hard for.
@koays said:
@hexthis said:
@koays said:
With Jean, I've always been a fan of her character, but the idea that with all the characterization that Cyclops, Beast, even Storm have had since she died, the only stories ever written about Jean were about the Phoenix or Scott....it's sad. I'm not saying I don't wanna see her reaction to the events since she died, but I bang my head everytime someone mentions how special Jean was and even as a fan or her's my first thought is "All she did was smile and get possessed and now she has a school named after her?!?!?".
Jean deserves to be explored more, and story wise the narrative needs it.
Jean has practically become the ultimate Woman in a Refrigerator, perhaps even more so than Gwen Stacy. She isn't remembered or reflected upon for having any distinct qualities, just for dying young, beautiful, and perfect and for filling both Scott and Logan's tormented hearts with angst. Jean is only ever explored to further Logan or Scott's pathos or to canonize her using the Phoenix force. Her death means less and less because it's beginning to define her, it's as though all anybody can see of her character is her relationship with the Phoenix force, her sacrifice, and Scott & Wolvie's unresolved grief.
Jean is much, much, much less interesting dead. She needs to come back and go through something similar to Magik where she's entirely disassociated with humanly concerns and disassociated with the Phoenix, darker and less goody-goody than she had been. She needs to be rebuilt from the ground up because there's so much potential in her character.
I wouldn't say it even needs to go that far. If they want to explore Jean as Phoenix , then they should do it through the eyes of her character for once instead of people telling horrified war stories about why someone gaining Phoenix power is bad.
But more then that, I'd just like for her to be a regular character who gets explored and defined more. The most personality Jean had, was when she came back for X-Factor and she was trying to define herself after death, but after that no one really touched on her...why not have a few stories where we actually figure out if there is something she doesn't like or she gets an enemy or a story arc about her and not about the phoenix or other characters.
I mean If they want to bring back Jean as the always smiling super psychic, at least give it to us from her point of view so we can know why she is that way.
I'm also a jean grey fan and want her nback alive ever since she died. I actually quit x-men back in 2001 when she died again then was tricked into coming back to x-men becuase of hope maybe/maybe not being jean. I hope the real jean grey comes back after the o5 go back to there time. But if adult scott ends up with emma, i dont want to see logan end up with jean. Why cant adult jean have a solo series about her training young future phoenix hosts(like quire,etc) in secret to protect other universes epescially with fixing the whole Age of Utron time rips. Also if Adult scott ends up with Adult Jean, where would this leave Emma, maybe back in comic limbo or death?
@hopesummersforthefuture said:
I'm also a jean grey fan and want her nback alive ever since she died. I actually quit x-men back in 2001 when she died again then was tricked into coming back to x-men becuase of hope maybe/maybe not being jean. I hope the real jean grey comes back after the o5 go back to there time. But if adult scott ends up with emma, i dont want to see logan end up with jean. Why cant adult jean have a solo series about her training young future phoenix hosts(like quire,etc) in secret to protect other universes epescially with fixing the whole Age of Utron time rips. Also if Adult scott ends up with Adult Jean, where would this leave Emma, maybe back in comic limbo or death?
I'd like a Jean Grey series as well. Maybe put some distance between her and Scott so that we don't have to immediately jump into a Emma/Scott/Jean/Logan thing, but just have her dealing with things away from the X-Men before she rejoins the team. I think after over a decade of her being dead it would be great to see her getting readjusted to the current status quo.
I've always felt that Jean and Scott are THE couple of the X-Men, and if there was ever a final issue It should end with them walking off in the sunset, but as for the here and now....Emma is a broken character betrayed by everyone she cares about, so it's down to Scott and the Cuckoo's to keep her together as far as people she cares about. A Jean/Scott interaction shouldn't happen until Emma and Cuckoos are better defined so it doesn't seem like Emma is left out in the cold
@koays said:
@hopesummersforthefuture said:
I'm also a jean grey fan and want her nback alive ever since she died. I actually quit x-men back in 2001 when she died again then was tricked into coming back to x-men becuase of hope maybe/maybe not being jean. I hope the real jean grey comes back after the o5 go back to there time. But if adult scott ends up with emma, i dont want to see logan end up with jean. Why cant adult jean have a solo series about her training young future phoenix hosts(like quire,etc) in secret to protect other universes epescially with fixing the whole Age of Utron time rips. Also if Adult scott ends up with Adult Jean, where would this leave Emma, maybe back in comic limbo or death?
I'd like a Jean Grey series as well. Maybe put some distance between her and Scott so that we don't have to immediately jump into a Emma/Scott/Jean/Logan thing, but just have her dealing with things away from the X-Men before she rejoins the team. I think after over a decade of her being dead it would be great to see her getting readjusted to the current status quo.
I've always felt that Jean and Scott are THE couple of the X-Men, and if there was ever a final issue It should end with them walking off in the sunset, but as for the here and now....Emma is a broken character betrayed by everyone she cares about, so it's down to Scott and the Cuckoo's to keep her together as far as people she cares about. A Jean/Scott interaction shouldn't happen until Emma and Cuckoos are better defined so it doesn't seem like Emma is left out in the cold
You can consider Adult Scott and Adult Jean permanently over lol. They will never get back together. If Adult Jean returns, Bendis might stick her with the GOTG or the Jean Grey School.
@avenger85: I was actually thinking she'd be the centerpiece of All New in order to keep the book going. I doubt they'd bring her back just to be another background at either school. ANX with Jean at the head would allow her to be at the JGS without being pulled into all of there mess.
@avenger85 said:
You can consider Adult Scott and Adult Jean permanently over lol. They will never get back together. If Adult Jean returns, Bendis might stick her with the GOTG or the Jean Grey School.
Never say never in comics...
@mechem_93 said:
@avenger85 said:
You can consider Adult Scott and Adult Jean permanently over lol. They will never get back together. If Adult Jean returns, Bendis might stick her with the GOTG or the Jean Grey School.
Never say never in comics...
I am talking about the Adult Cyke and Jean. Not the younger ones. I think they have way too much baggage among themselves to ever get together again, if Adult Jean returns that is. Unless Bendis wants to retcon stuff and change continuity like Corsair's resurrection etc...
@avenger85: I was talking about the adult ones too and I agree they do have too much baggage but if a writer/editor wants them together just because they like the couple then they're gonna get together. It's just how comic books work, always going back to the old status quo. Wouldn't be the first time Jean died for an extended period of time and then comes back to reunite with Scott.
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