do any of you guys know if bobby and storm ever fought in cannon? i am trying to find some of those comics. i think i remember seeing one scan where she beat him pretty easily. that scan could have been out of context or non cannon.
They fought in "Nightcrawler #9", but this was a low showing for both of them and I doubt it's 100% canon. The Shadow King was in control of both of them, and if you look at the panels, Ororo took Bobby by surprise. There is always weirdness when you put in mind-control, and we generally know that Bobby doesn't operate to his maximum potential most of the time (heck, he was taken down by Emma Frost with a kick at one point (for good reasons, honestly, and it was for Bobby's good): Pic and link to explanation: Link to article summary. Adding in the surprise attack element, and it's clear that you can't really say she beat him in a fair fight or under normal battlefield conditions.
They've actually gone up against each other 3 times (one time being indirect) These instances are all canon and show that he is susceptible to her powers, just like he is against Magik's hell fire. The first time occurring in The Infinity War #2 - Ethereal Revisionism. Goddess had manipulated the most spirited heroes of Marvel Earth to recruit other heroes. A then mind controlled Storm managed to zap Bobby with her lightning knocking him out.
The second time I believe took place in New Avengers #9, Where Thanos' forces attack Earth to extract info from the Illuminati. They attack Bobby mentally and inadvertently flash freezing the team. Storm later manages to get free and lay some more slayage with the lightning.
Gallery
The last time, as POTS stated, took place in Nightcrawler #9. While being mind controlled, Storm's anger exceeds to a point where Shadow King loses control over her and her powers. The result is Iceman, who is also being mind controlled, being taken out by her winds, forcing Shadow King to shift his focus to Colossus.
kool. thanks. every time they were mind controlled though. it makes sense. it does justice to both characters. it shows she can possible beat bobby, and he was given an out. i will have to check them out. thanks.
Still not sure how these fights would turn out if both were operating at maximum capacity because of mind control, but you have the scans now. With no morals, it would still be close. I still think it's Bobby's personality and style relative to Ororo's that gives her the edge. Scientifically speaking, he has all the advantages, so I'd say it's his fight to lose. If this was AOA Iceman or someone with no morals but same powerset, I think it changes things a lot of the dynamics. She'd be hard pressed to actually destroy him: Blizzard Fist
kool. thanks. every time they were mind controlled though. it makes sense. it does justice to both characters. it shows she can possible beat bobby, and he was given an out. i will have to check them out. thanks.
Fair points. Part of me feels that the mind control wouldn't change the outcome though.
They've actually gone up against each other 3 times (one time being indirect) These instances are all canon and show that he is susceptible to her powers, just like he is against Magik's hell fire. The first time occurring in The Infinity War #2 - Ethereal Revisionism. Goddess had manipulated the most spirited heroes of Marvel Earth to recruit other heroes. A then mind controlled Storm managed to zap Bobby with her lightning knocking him out.
The second time I believe took place in New Avengers #9, Where Thanos' forces attack Earth to extract info from the Illuminati. They attack Bobby mentally and inadvertently flash freezing the team. Storm later manages to get free and lay some more slayage with the lightning.
Gallery
The last time, as POTS stated, took place in Nightcrawler #9. While being mind controlled, Storm's anger exceeds to a point where Shadow King loses control over her and her powers. The result is Iceman, who is also being mind controlled, being taken out by her winds, forcing Shadow King to shift his focus to Colossus.
I just can't see how anyone could survive a flash freeze. i mean no one would be able to think when every fiber of your being including your brain is frozen
@darthphoenix: true no-one should be able to... but super humans defy normal rules. Storm's resistance to the elements would protect her enough to enable her to begin countering the effects. Her brain is full of static too so its unlikely that she'd be completely frozen there... the heat of that static would be as effective a protection against cold as against telepathic assailants.
I just can't see how anyone could survive a flash freeze. i mean no one would be able to think when every fiber of your being including your brain is frozen
that's your problem with this? what about the fact that someone has the ability to flash freeze in the first place. one you accept the fact that a woman can make a hurricane instantly, the other stuff should be pretty easy. heck, stom power's affect oceans. she can even cause solar winds if she is close enough to the sun.
Iceman is still more cooler and confirmed Omega-Level. I don't see what Storm can do to him. You see... this is what I mean lol
he still loses to her according to this forum. it's probably because she has his powers and more. iceman controls the cold. storm controls temperature, water, heat, etc. her power adapt to her environment. she can control the currents when she is in the ocean. she can cause solar winds near the sun. she is really versatile. i just wish she would go back to her old hair cut.
Iceman is still more cooler and confirmed Omega-Level. I don't see what Storm can do to him. You see... this is what I mean lol
he still loses to her according to this forum. it's probably because she has his powers and more. iceman controls the cold. storm controls temperature, water, heat, etc. her power adapt to her environment. she can control the currents when she is in the ocean. she can cause solar winds near the sun. she is really versatile. i just wish she would go back to her old hair cut.
No, the general consensus in the battle forums is that this is a close match (mainly because at full potential, she can't destroy him because the water cycle is a pretty uniquely far-ranging and dynamic powerset because it can exist anywhere). Both have their advantages, as well as low showings, so it's unfair to act like the outcome is clearcut. He can become the cold & the different aspects of the water cycle. Storm can manipulate some aspects of this cycle. His control over the water cycle (water, gas, ice) exceeds hers - she is limited by her environment, and while she can duplicate some aspects of his powers, you never see her create ice slides, or exhibit fine control over frost to make similar shapes at will - the most she can do is lower the temperature, initiate flash freezes, or create hail or ice storms. His power over this phase of the element is complete, whereas she only has access to certain parts of it. He has direct control, while she has indirect control (i.e. he can lower temperature so fast that he can create ice instantly, whereas she needs to create the conditions for a cold-related weather event). He can become ice and survive past the destruction of his physical body, while she can be taken out by a bullet or a hth master w/insulated armor. He's like an expert in one area, whereas she's more of a generalist with a few skills/powers in many areas.
TBH I think there is a lot more ignorance about Bobby's high showings in general. Some of his exceed anything she's done to accomplish, while she's more consistent but not necessarily with high showings.
Iceman is still more cooler and confirmed Omega-Level. I don't see what Storm can do to him. You see... this is what I mean lol
he still loses to her according to this forum. it's probably because she has his powers and more. iceman controls the cold. storm controls temperature, water, heat, etc. her power adapt to her environment. she can control the currents when she is in the ocean. she can cause solar winds near the sun. she is really versatile. i just wish she would go back to her old hair cut.
No, the general consensus in the battle forums is that this is a close match (mainly because at full potential, she can't destroy him because the water cycle is a pretty uniquely far-ranging and dynamic powerset because it can exist anywhere). Both have their advantages, as well as low showings, so it's unfair to act like the outcome is clearcut. He can become the cold & the different aspects of the water cycle. Storm can manipulate some aspects of this cycle. His control over the water cycle (water, gas, ice) exceeds hers - she is limited by her environment, and while she can duplicate some aspects of his powers, you never see her create ice slides, or exhibit fine control over frost to make similar shapes at will - the most she can do is lower the temperature, initiate flash freezes, or create hail or ice storms. His power over this phase of the element is complete, whereas she only has access to certain parts of it. He has direct control, while she has indirect control (i.e. he can lower temperature so fast that he can create ice instantly, whereas she needs to create the conditions for a cold-related weather event). He can become ice and survive past the destruction of his physical body, while she can be taken out by a bullet or a hth master w/insulated armor. He's like an expert in one area, whereas she's more of a generalist with a few skills/powers in many areas.
TBH I think there is a lot more ignorance about Bobby's high showings in general. Some of his exceed anything she's done to accomplish, while she's more consistent but not necessarily with high showings.
i was talking about this thread not the whole forum. most of the scans i have seen have her beating him. iceman vs storm battles seem to be taboo here. however, there can be a million variations of superman vs hulk or superman vs thor.
@christianrapper: I wouldn't count this thread as generally indicative of anything. The OP asked for pictures of Storm beating Bobby, so that's what we were mainly responding to. Iceman v. Storm battles aren't taboo here. There are some Storm fans who don't know much about any other character who get involved with any thread involving her and often derail debates. Some of the Iceman v. Storm battles were locked because these fans were breaking battle forum rules or clearly not objective leading to neverending zombie threads that weren't going anywhere. It's nothing personal. There's a similar problem with other characters whose fans are clearly biased.
Just noting for the record - The abilities Bobby has that exceeds Storm's is the level of cold he can reach, being able to reform from his body being destroyed, and his ability to shape ice instantly. Outside of that Storm has shown direct control over water for instant changes in all it's states (not seeing he exceeds her here), can also shape it, and has direct control over temperature (i.e. - she can just drop the temp and does not need to create a cold-related weather effect, such as when she dropped the temp inside a gun -200). Even within their mutual elements they have done things that the other has not (i.e. - Storm bursting the atmosphere with an extreme heatwave, controlling ocean currents, create flash-floods by pulling moisture from the air, or moving atmospheric moisture vs Bobby's reforming his body from water or controlling the chemical process involved with heat generation).
@christianrapper: I think it's an OK topic personally, but I agree with you. There are certain viners in the X-Men and Battle forums that can make the Iceman/Storm comparison or battle discussions into a taboo subject. While I don't find Bobby particularly interesting I do like his powers and discussing them in comparing them to other elementally powered characters.
@christianrapper: It's also worth noting that Bobby's ice form is organic, which would explain why certain forms of physical and energy based attacks have affected him in the past.
Also, Storm does indeed have the power to break his water cycle, via water electrolysis fields. This may be one of the reasons her lightning has always been effective against him in the past.
Well in Astonishing X-Men when Ice Man wanted to end the world and freeze everyone to death he was able to beat the Avengers and X-Men including Thor and Storm so... yes?
Well in Astonishing X-Men when Ice Man wanted to end the world and freeze everyone to death he was able to beat the Avengers and X-Men including Thor and Storm so... yes?
Isn't that something?
Storm can't do nothing to him. Not with the wind, or the rain, nor with the snow.
Well in Astonishing X-Men when Ice Man wanted to end the world and freeze everyone to death he was able to beat the Avengers and X-Men including Thor and Storm so... yes?
Isn't that something?
Storm can't do nothing to him. Not with the wind, or the rain, nor with the snow.
They've actually gone up against each other 3 times (one time being indirect) These instances are all canon and show that he is susceptible to her powers, just like he is against Magik's hell fire. The first time occurring in The Infinity War #2 - Ethereal Revisionism. Goddess had manipulated the most spirited heroes of Marvel Earth to recruit other heroes. A then mind controlled Storm managed to zap Bobby with her lightning knocking him out.
The second time I believe took place in New Avengers #9, Where Thanos' forces attack Earth to extract info from the Illuminati. They attack Bobby mentally and inadvertently flash freezing the team. Storm later manages to get free and lay some more slayage with the lightning.
Gallery
The last time, as POTS stated, took place in Nightcrawler #9. While being mind controlled, Storm's anger exceeds to a point where Shadow King loses control over her and her powers. The result is Iceman, who is also being mind controlled, being taken out by her winds, forcing Shadow King to shift his focus to Colossus.
Gallery
those scans seem more like storm attacking bobby (by surprise) than actual fights lol. But regardless, in an actual fight i'd go with storm to win. Theoretically at full potential bobby should win though, but that never actually happens so its pointless to assume he could pull it off in an actual fight
Well in Astonishing X-Men when Ice Man wanted to end the world and freeze everyone to death he was able to beat the Avengers and X-Men including Thor and Storm so... yes?
Isn't that something?
Storm can't do nothing to him. Not with the wind, or the rain, nor with the snow.
Nightcrawler #9 says otherwise.
That was only because Bobby was just in one body. If he spreads out his ice to cover a huge part of land he turns immortal unless she can find the one snow flake in the ice that has his consciousness in it which would be impossible if he froze over more then a city which is something very easy for him.
i still am surprised there aren't 50 million storm vs bobby vs weather wizard vs killer frost battles. there are a million variations of the other same 6 battles on comic vine.
Well in Astonishing X-Men when Ice Man wanted to end the world and freeze everyone to death he was able to beat the Avengers and X-Men including Thor and Storm so... yes?
Isn't that something?
Storm can't do nothing to him. Not with the wind, or the rain, nor with the snow.
Nightcrawler #9 says otherwise.
That was only because Bobby was just in one body. If he spreads out his ice to cover a huge part of land he turns immortal unless she can find the one snow flake in the ice that has his consciousness in it which would be impossible if he froze over more then a city which is something very easy for him.
Storm can literally render Bobby useless. She manipulates all the components he needs to create his ice, including moisture on a huge scale. Bobby may be virtually immortal but he still can be KO'd as evident by the scans I posted.
Well in Astonishing X-Men when Ice Man wanted to end the world and freeze everyone to death he was able to beat the Avengers and X-Men including Thor and Storm so... yes?
Isn't that something?
Storm can't do nothing to him. Not with the wind, or the rain, nor with the snow.
Nightcrawler #9 says otherwise.
That was only because Bobby was just in one body. If he spreads out his ice to cover a huge part of land he turns immortal unless she can find the one snow flake in the ice that has his consciousness in it which would be impossible if he froze over more then a city which is something very easy for him.
Storm can literally render Bobby useless. She manipulates all the components he needs to create his ice, including moisture on a huge scale. Bobby may be virtually immortal but he still can be KO'd as evident by the scans I posted.
Except that it was proven she wasn't able to dismiss Bobby's snow storm in Astonishing x-men making her useless. Bobby wasn't serious in any of the scans you posted. Bobby's entire character is defined by the fact that he is a huge slacker and had the most wasted potential of any x-men. If he was serious for once and didn't hold back or care about how many people he killed to win the fight then there is literally nothing storm could do even with the entire x-men backing her.
I also find it really funny that all the scans you are posting and clinging to that "prove" she could beat Bobby are really old and many years before they revealed how strong Iceman actually is in Astonishing X-Men. Making them all beyond irrelevant.
Well in Astonishing X-Men when Ice Man wanted to end the world and freeze everyone to death he was able to beat the Avengers and X-Men including Thor and Storm so... yes?
Isn't that something?
Storm can't do nothing to him. Not with the wind, or the rain, nor with the snow.
Nightcrawler #9 says otherwise.
That was only because Bobby was just in one body. If he spreads out his ice to cover a huge part of land he turns immortal unless she can find the one snow flake in the ice that has his consciousness in it which would be impossible if he froze over more then a city which is something very easy for him.
Storm can literally render Bobby useless. She manipulates all the components he needs to create his ice, including moisture on a huge scale. Bobby may be virtually immortal but he still can be KO'd as evident by the scans I posted.
Except that it was proven she wasn't able to dismiss Bobby's snow storm in Astonishing x-men making her useless. Bobby wasn't serious in any of the scans you posted. Bobby's entire character is defined by the fact that he is a huge slacker and had the most wasted potential of any x-men. If he was serious for once and didn't hold back or care about how many people he killed to win the fight then there is literally nothing storm could do even with the entire x-men backing her.
I also find it really funny that all the scans you are posting and clinging to that "prove" she could beat Bobby are really old and many years before they revealed how strong Iceman actually is in Astonishing X-Men. Making them all beyond irrelevant.
Yeah because the plot called for it. Storm has quelled a blizzard comparable to the one Bobby generated. In Uncanny X-men #120-121, Shaman generated a hyper blizzard that Storm was able to gain control of and spread it across an entire continent.
And let's not sit here and pretend Bobby is impervious to her attacks, when he clearly is not. Bobby getting "serious" doesn't change that fact no matter how much you want to ignore it. The only person I see here "clinging" to anything is you with that one Astonishing feat that Bobby required the death seed to accomplish in the first place. He couldn't reach that potential on his own. Also the scans I provided (save the first one) all happen during or after the Astonishing issue you're referring to, nice try though.
Well in Astonishing X-Men when Ice Man wanted to end the world and freeze everyone to death he was able to beat the Avengers and X-Men including Thor and Storm so... yes?
Isn't that something?
Storm can't do nothing to him. Not with the wind, or the rain, nor with the snow.
Nightcrawler #9 says otherwise.
That was only because Bobby was just in one body. If he spreads out his ice to cover a huge part of land he turns immortal unless she can find the one snow flake in the ice that has his consciousness in it which would be impossible if he froze over more then a city which is something very easy for him.
Storm can literally render Bobby useless. She manipulates all the components he needs to create his ice, including moisture on a huge scale. Bobby may be virtually immortal but he still can be KO'd as evident by the scans I posted.
Except that it was proven she wasn't able to dismiss Bobby's snow storm in Astonishing x-men making her useless. Bobby wasn't serious in any of the scans you posted. Bobby's entire character is defined by the fact that he is a huge slacker and had the most wasted potential of any x-men. If he was serious for once and didn't hold back or care about how many people he killed to win the fight then there is literally nothing storm could do even with the entire x-men backing her.
I also find it really funny that all the scans you are posting and clinging to that "prove" she could beat Bobby are really old and many years before they revealed how strong Iceman actually is in Astonishing X-Men. Making them all beyond irrelevant.
Yeah because the plot called for it. Storm has quelled a blizzard comparable to the one Bobby generated. In Uncanny X-men #120-121, Shaman generated a hyper blizzard that Storm was able to gain control of and spread it across an entire continent.
And let's not sit here and pretend Bobby is impervious to her attacks, when he clearly is not. Bobby getting "serious" doesn't change that fact no matter how much you want to ignore it. The only person I see here "clinging" to anything is you with that one Astonishing feat that Bobby required the death seed to accomplish in the first place. He couldn't reach that potential on his own. Also the scans I provided (save the first one) all happen during or after the Astonishing issue you're referring to, nice try though.
First off Bobby isn't creating that snow storm there so that scan is pointless when she isn't able to call off a storm made by Bobby.
Now let me just say that after reading your post that is not how continuity works. Do you actually need me to explain this to you? You seem to like comic books yet you don't understand how to follow them? In continuity things are always being added to the story in a lingeringly. It was only in the past few years we got to see just how powerful Bobby actually was so anything prior to astonishing x-men was from before Bobby starting to understand his full potential making all of it irrelevant when comparing Storm to Iceman. You don't get to pick and choose what scans you want to look at because they make your argument more convenient.
Storm was not able to stop Bobby's unleashed power when he finally unleashed it in Astonishing X-Men. That happened. It is a fact. You can not make it not a fact.
Storm can control the weather and could make a normal blizzard go away. That's all common knowledge but she can not over power Bobby when it comes to snow and the cold that has been proven and until there is a scan taking places after astonishing x-men when Bobby realized his upper limits that proves otherwise there is no argument for the contrary other then being a fanboy. Maybe someday a writer will improve Storm's upper limits until then she loses this fight.
The only scan that takes place after astonishing x-men was one where Bobby was being used as a meat puppy by shadow king. Shadow king doesn't know how to use Iceman's powers as good as Iceman xD I would say "nice try though" but it really wasn't. :)
Oh Tee, you're making this too easy....Did you even fully read my post before replying.
First off Bobby isn't creating that snow storm there so that scan is pointless when she isn't able to call off a storm made by Bobby.
I never once said Bobby created that snow storm in the scans I provided. He wasn't even on the team at that time. I said the storm Shaman (magically) generated was comparable to the one Bobby generated in Astonishing. The storm spanned from Yukon to Alberta and was growing in size and Storm still manage to manipulate twice in this issue. The point of the scans was to show that Storm can/has quell hyper blizzards. Honestly it's really not that difficult.
Now let me just say that after reading your post that is not how continuity works. Do you actually need me to explain this to you? You seem to like comic books yet you don't understand how to follow them? In continuity things are always being added to the story in a lingeringly. It was only in the past few years we got to see just how powerful Bobby actually was so anything prior to astonishing x-men was from before Bobby starting to understand his full potential making all of it irrelevant when comparing Storm to Iceman. You don't get to pick and choose what scans you want to look at because they make your argument more convenient.
Honestly none of this has anything to do with our debate and just seems like an excuse for poor Bobby. I'm not the one confused about continuity, when you're calling scans old that came out around or after Astonishing. You also are completely wrong on the bold. Bobby has known his full potential since Emma show cased what he's capable of, when she took over his body. Jean also revealed to him his omega level status when he froze that celestial ship. Bobby just doesn't apply himself. And yes I can pick and choose whatever scans I want as long as they are a logical support to my argument, which they are. Just because they're an inconvenience for your argument you can't pretend they didn't happen.
Storm was not able to stop Bobby's unleashed power when he finally unleashed it in Astonishing X-Men. That happened. It is a fact. You can not make it not a fact.
Yeah this was the same story Thor was unable to to stop his storm too. I'm not ignoring what happened, I just question the writer's knowledge of Storm and Thor's feats.
Storm can control the weather and could make a normal blizzard go away. That's all common knowledge but she can not over power Bobby when it comes to snow and the cold that has been proven and until there is a scan taking places after astonishing x-men when Bobby realized his upper limits that proves otherwise there is no argument for the contrary other then being a fanboy. Maybe someday a writer will improve Storm's upper limits until then she loses this fight.
Lol Storm has multiple global feats under her own power and she didn't need a death seed to accomplish them. And please stop it with that fanboy mess, when you've been wanking Bobby ONE feat that clearly had context to it. Also yelling "Nah Nah Nah Nothing before Astonishing matters" doesn't make my argument any less adequate.
The only scan that takes place after astonishing x-men was one where Bobby was being used as a meat puppy by shadow king. Shadow king doesn't know how to use Iceman's powers as good as Iceman xD I would say "nice try though" but it really wasn't. :)
I don't and never will need your approval so please don't ever make that mistake again. Also I don't have to try, it comes naturally just like your ability to constantly fail in this argument. SK utilize Bobby's abilities the same way he's been using them since Astonishing. Ice golems and all.
@roddy010: So you think that Shadow King possessing any of the x-men would be able to fight just as good as any of the x-men? That's hilarious. Like 50% of the x-men is all about teaching people how to use their abilities, and there have been a multitude of stories in the x-men, fantastic four, avengers, etc. all about how just having super powers doesn't mean shit if you don't know how to really use them. The x-men actually operate out of a school with the purpose of teaching people how to use their powers. I mean if you look at what Storm did in Storm #1 with the tsunami I don't think that anyone else with her powers could have done that because only she had the kind of experience needed to really use her powers up to that potential.
@teerack: Please stop twisting my words because you can't fathom a reasonable argument for Bobby. Face it, he loses.
I'm not twisting your words, and if that is what you think I'm doing then maybe you should just not post anymore since you think applying the things you are saying logically is "twisting" which is how intelligent debate works. You don't actually have an argument, and instead you seem to be confusing an argument with just repeating something over and over(even when said thing doesn't help support your case).
@roddy010: So you think that Shadow King possessing any of the x-men would be able to fight just as good as any of the x-men? That's hilarious. Like 50% of the x-men is all about teaching people how to use their abilities, and there have been a multitude of stories in the x-men, fantastic four, avengers, etc. all about how just having super powers doesn't mean shit if you don't know how to really use them. The x-men actually operate out of a school with the purpose of teaching people how to use their powers. I mean if you look at what Storm did in Storm #1 with the tsunami I don't think that anyone else with her powers could have done that because only she had the kind of experience needed to really use her powers up to that potential.
I'm not really getting into the actual debate, but isn't Shadowking a skilled telepath? Skilled telepaths have been to shown to not only know how to use the mutant powers of others, but have been shown to use them better. Wasn't it Emma who showed Bobby a ton of what he is capable of by possessing his body? I would argue ShadowKing is just as good or better at telepathy than Emma, so there is no reason he shouldn't have been able to use Bobby's power as well or better considering he would have access to every part of his mind including the subconscious part that Emma had access to when she explored his powers farther than he had at the time.
@roddy010: So you think that Shadow King possessing any of the x-men would be able to fight just as good as any of the x-men? That's hilarious. Like 50% of the x-men is all about teaching people how to use their abilities, and there have been a multitude of stories in the x-men, fantastic four, avengers, etc. all about how just having super powers doesn't mean shit if you don't know how to really use them. The x-men actually operate out of a school with the purpose of teaching people how to use their powers. I mean if you look at what Storm did in Storm #1 with the tsunami I don't think that anyone else with her powers could have done that because only she had the kind of experience needed to really use her powers up to that potential.
I'm not really getting into the actual debate, but isn't Shadowking a skilled telepath? Skilled telepaths have been to shown to not only know how to use the mutant powers of others, but have been shown to use them better. Wasn't it Emma who showed Bobby a ton of what he is capable of by possessing his body? I would argue ShadowKing is just as good or better at telepathy than Emma, so there is no reason he shouldn't have been able to use Bobby's power as well or better considering he would have access to every part of his mind including the subconscious part that Emma had access to when she explored his powers farther than he had at the time.
So if I post a scan of storm getting beat by Wolverine when she was mind controlled we can all agree Wolverine would beat Storm? Is that the logic we are settling on?
You also forget that Shadow King was also controlling Storm and the rest of the x-men here, this was Nightcrawler making Shadow King trip over himself as he over extended himself trying to control too many people at once.
@roddy010: So you think that Shadow King possessing any of the x-men would be able to fight just as good as any of the x-men? That's hilarious. Like 50% of the x-men is all about teaching people how to use their abilities, and there have been a multitude of stories in the x-men, fantastic four, avengers, etc. all about how just having super powers doesn't mean shit if you don't know how to really use them. The x-men actually operate out of a school with the purpose of teaching people how to use their powers. I mean if you look at what Storm did in Storm #1 with the tsunami I don't think that anyone else with her powers could have done that because only she had the kind of experience needed to really use her powers up to that potential.
I'm not really getting into the actual debate, but isn't Shadowking a skilled telepath? Skilled telepaths have been to shown to not only know how to use the mutant powers of others, but have been shown to use them better. Wasn't it Emma who showed Bobby a ton of what he is capable of by possessing his body? I would argue ShadowKing is just as good or better at telepathy than Emma, so there is no reason he shouldn't have been able to use Bobby's power as well or better considering he would have access to every part of his mind including the subconscious part that Emma had access to when she explored his powers farther than he had at the time.
So if I post a scan of storm getting beat by Wolverine when she was mind controlled we can all agree Wolverine would beat Storm? Is that the logic we are settling on?
I'm not arguing that point, I'm arguing that being possessed by a skilled telepath does not mean that telepath can't use your powers as well or better than you can, especially when we know telepaths can absorb knowledge and skill directly from another mind and use it immediately.
@roddy010: So you think that Shadow King possessing any of the x-men would be able to fight just as good as any of the x-men? That's hilarious. Like 50% of the x-men is all about teaching people how to use their abilities, and there have been a multitude of stories in the x-men, fantastic four, avengers, etc. all about how just having super powers doesn't mean shit if you don't know how to really use them. The x-men actually operate out of a school with the purpose of teaching people how to use their powers. I mean if you look at what Storm did in Storm #1 with the tsunami I don't think that anyone else with her powers could have done that because only she had the kind of experience needed to really use her powers up to that potential.
I'm not really getting into the actual debate, but isn't Shadowking a skilled telepath? Skilled telepaths have been to shown to not only know how to use the mutant powers of others, but have been shown to use them better. Wasn't it Emma who showed Bobby a ton of what he is capable of by possessing his body? I would argue ShadowKing is just as good or better at telepathy than Emma, so there is no reason he shouldn't have been able to use Bobby's power as well or better considering he would have access to every part of his mind including the subconscious part that Emma had access to when she explored his powers farther than he had at the time.
So if I post a scan of storm getting beat by Wolverine when she was mind controlled we can all agree Wolverine would beat Storm? Is that the logic we are settling on?
I'm not arguing that point, I'm arguing that being possessed by a skilled telepath does not mean that telepath can't use your powers as well or better than you can, especially when we know telepaths can absorb knowledge and skill directly from another mind and use it immediately.
And I agree with that. I mean Emma Frost was better at using Bobby's powers like ten years ago when she took over his mind, but Bobby since then has done things far beyond what anyone thought were his upper limits after Logan told him everyone things hes the X-Men with the most wasted potential and it kind of lit a fire under his belly.
@teerack: Storm wasn't even involved in those events in Astonishing X-men with Bobby. She was completely taken out of the story and wasn't even used in a battle against him. There was only one page of her stating that the blizzard was sentient. Nothing about her being unable to stop it or anything was even mentioned, they were just looking to find the source of the disturbance. It doesn't really favor Bobby at all because it's clear the writer wanted to keep Storm out of this story.
Also, it should be noted that Storm has proven that she can stop a sentient storm even if she cannot manipulate it directly. She wrestled a powerful storm conjured by an evil krakoa and was able to smother it into submission.
I should also note that instance from New Avengers #9 occurred after Iceman's Astonishing X-men story arc as well. So the one from Nightcrawler #9 isn't the only one.
@teerack: Storm wasn't even involved in those events in Astonishing X-men with Bobby. She was completely taken out of the story and wasn't even used in a battle against him. There was only one page of her stating that the blizzard was sentient. Nothing about her being unable to stop it or anything was even mentioned, they were just looking to find the source of the disturbance. It doesn't really favor Bobby at all because it's clear the writer wanted to keep Storm out of this story.
What are you talking about? That shows her right there saying that the weather isn't natural. Are you saying that Storm just didn't feel like saving the world and was cool with letting Bobby end it? If she was aware of what is going on she was stop it if she could.
As for your second scan why are you showing me this? It has nothing to do with this discussion at all. That storm that she is stopping isn't being created by Iceman and is only effect a desert while Iceman's weather was effecting the whole planet, so it's not even comparable in terms of scale and is really just not related to this. What you are saying is as flawed as saying Storm can pick up a car with her bare hands because she can pick up a chair.
@teerack: It shows her saying the weather isn't natural, but it doesn't say anything about her being unable to quell it on panel. We don't actually see her interact with Bobby or his blizzard at any point in this story. There can be any number of reasons as to why she would've preferred the tempest to be cut at its source. Quelling powerful storms like these would require her to tap into the electric potential energy of the earth itself(which she doesn't do often). There's also the fact that quelling the blizzard doesn't mean another one couldn't just pop up again. That's just a huge waste of power in that case. Generating storms are far easier than putting them away as well, this is why Shaman was unable to stop his own blizzard after allowing it to grow out of his control.
The other scans were to show that even if a storm is sentient and out of her control, it doesn't mean she can't stop it. So her words on those panels from Astonishing don't hold much water here, since we don't see her interacting with his blizzard on panel.
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