Should there be a mandate.... No more Phoenix?

May be one last time

I think Phoenix could be good concept. Phoenix is wild card and it could be villiain or ally to X-Men and with it power, characthers can do lot of things with it. If no more Phoenix, why not also no more Gallactus or even Thanos, they have potencial but their roles are pretty the same and often becomes boring and with Thanos appearing on MCU, i think we will see him a lot on comics.

i think teen jean if she get possed by dark phoenix, i think its better for marvel that she lives because she sells more, and i think she will be alive, i hope all the fucking time for ever and ever

agreed!!!! :)

The only problem I have with the Phoenix is the fact that every time it's a Phoenix host it's a mutant

I think if it wasnt a mutant ...like Ironman became phoenix i would lose it. Plus it's been established that the Phoenix has had other alien host....and apparantly some ancient iron fist clan member

@koays: The Phoenix isn't exclusively stuck to mutants. And what's the good of having off panel sayings of things. The Inhumansecond would make good hosts and they could give the Phoenix to a God

For me the concept of the Phoenix being some force is old and tired. I prefer @koays and @EC277 explanation in another thread about the Phoenix being a cosmic goddess. I even thought of it like the Phoenix being a cosmic goddess or a disembodied celestial who was cast out from her universe and whose essence bonds with other super powered beings.

The idea of the Inhumans encroaching on this is very distasteful lol. Theres room for them just not in this space that they are trying to force them in.lol.

But really to keep revisiting the Phoenix and using it as plot device is old and tired. I think unless there is a change in what it is or its origins then I could do with having no more Phoenix stories.

Honestly in my opinion it just needs to be benched for a time. And that's just how i feel about story concepts that are over used like that in general.

Phoenix with Morrison run was an epic tale of Jean Grey once again tapping into the levels of power that had been hanging over her for years and realizing a greater destiny and role for her to play.

Phoenix End Song was a wounded Phoenix reviving Jean and Jean putting aside her humanity and ascending to a higherplane of existence to dedicate herself to the work she had to do as a cosmic entity.

Phoenix Warsong has a fragment of the Phoenix go insane and inhabit the stepford Cuckoo's

Rise and Fall of the Shiar Empire had Rachel Grey reclaim a fragment of the phoenix force after having her family hunted down and killed for the very same connection that allowed her and Jean to control the pheonix.

Messiah Trilogy was about the Phoenix returning to earth to bond with a girl who also happens to be the last hope of mutant kind, and eventually seeing the hope use it's power to bring them back from extinction.

That's 2004 to 2011 all filled with back to back stories including it...and really for the most part they all worked within a tight nit of either the Phoenix's greater purpose or the Shiar's fear of it's power....with only slight bumps in the Phoenix' presentation. But then we had things like Quentin Quire getting the Phoenix, No More Humans got a Phoenix ex Machina resolution, Teen Jean Grey being put on Trial for future crimes as the phoenix, and then Cyclops hatching his ex girlfriend/wife phoenix egg and bonding with it so that God Doom could...well you know.

And honestly, even if they had been 100% awesomely told stories, or if you had replaced the Phoenix with a giant flying bowtie...i'd still think it was time to do something different and let the Phoenix rest for a long while so that we'll be excited the next time it shows up in a full page spread.

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I want more Phoenix!QuentinQuire...

The concept is really good tbh, but so inconsistent and misused, I fear I have to agree to never see it again.

Somebody sprinkled Inhuman Phoenix? That would be a clear "#complex" thing, and simply not to make any sense beyond messing with the fandom.

I'd like it to be some kind of abstract concept which doesn't interfere much with the stories but which weighs on them(like Galactus, it is often mentioned but not often interferes). I mean, I don't want any new avatars or stuff like that, but just some seldom appareances to remind us it exists and it likes mutankind.

They should explain why Jean has that strong bond with the Phoenix Force AND they should tell us what Jean is doing in that bloody White Hot Room. I don't want a Teen Jean Phoenix, but a Quentin Quire Phoenix would not be bad. But the problem is that they don't use the Phoenix well, they need to change that.

Phoenix is to ingrained in the X-men mythology at this point. Sure the Phoenix's shadow can diminish but as long as there are mutants we will have the Phoenix!

I don't like the concept. TBH, I liked the original story line, but never was a big fan of the X-Men's space adventures or the Shi'Ar. And I highly value coherent storytelling which the Phoenix never seems too offer - it always veers off into PIS, CIS, and vague applications to the overall universe as evidenced by the fact that it very rarely appears in any other cosmic book or cosmic storyline, and never seems to have an impact beyond creating personal angst.

They already did explain it. Death told Jean that her soul is basically craved from the Phoenix and that her real power is to wield the force, something that is also genetic and can be passed on to her children. She is connected to it because she is a piece of it given flesh. She is in the WHR fixing or wiping out "sick" universes and timelines to regrow better futures.

QQ as Phoenix already sucked on panel, he's an awful badly written character with no real direction or development imo.

No we shouldn't mandate the Phoenix, we should get rid of Bendis God dammit. How is he allowed continue to write books and shit all over Marvel, more specifically the X-Men?

Also did you see the team Tony Stark sent to fight the Phoenix force in space? Valkyrie, War Machine, Ms Marvel? What the fuck were they supposed to do? Writers like Bendis don't know what the Phoenix is and treat it as a physical entity and try to punch it like the Avengers in AvX.

The problem with Phoenix is that it belongs to one of those plot devices that should only be used when they are written well and in very certain cases.

Seriously yes please no more Phoenix.

the phoenix is a great powerful entity that can destroy the entire universe with a blink of the eye, for that fact the more the x men defeat it the more watered down it becomes. So to keep the integrity of the concept no there should be no more phoenix stories atleast not for the foreseeable future, if there were no more phoenix for the next 10-15 years that could only help any story that came after that

When have the X-Men defeated the Phoenix? The way I remember things, most people that go against it get stomped.

Does containment count as a defeat? Cuckoo's contained it for a good while...till it decided it had better things to do and flew off into space.

Not within the context of the story. The piece of Phoenix that stayed on Earth was there to destroy those 1000 clones before they could be used to kill all mutants, Phoenix won that fight. Then it was contained, until we find out it could have left at anytime. So containing something merely staying put while it awaits orders from the Crown is not a defeat in my book.

@hawk2916: Using the reasoning in your OP, we should never have any comic book character at all. Because all of them have bad writing that spur debate.

maybe defeat was the wrong word, but you get the picture the X men handled the issue, they know how to deal with it. It comes, things happen, X men come out on top. (and AvX the phoenix id say was defeated) but yea it still seems like too many of these stories dilute the perceived danger of the phoenix force, hell you seen how low its fallen in Secret Wars

@makhai: You're taking a big leap with that blanket statement. Thats not what was said or implied at all.

But that isn't the case their encounters with the Phoenix only end after the Phoenix either accomplishes what it came to do or leaves on it's own. Dark Phoenix ended because the Phoenix ended it. HCT ended because Jean destroyed that reality and left for another plane of existence. Endsong ended because Jean was reached by thoughts of love, regained control and left. Warsong ended because the Phoenix accomplished it's task of destroying the 1000 in one and allowed itself to be trapped until Jean called those three pieces along with the two in Rachel and the sword to apparently send them all back in on piece to bond with Hope. The Phoenix in AVX was stopped because Jean told Scott to let it go so that it could bond with Hope to accomplish what it came to do. Them thinking they could deal with it is what led to the corruption of the Phoenix 5 and a rogue Phoenix manifestation better known as a Dark Phoenix.

No More X-Men and No More Mandates

no more avengers