#1 Posted by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you think the X-Men from the past should get new names? I think it would make sense for someone to provide them with new official identities so that they can actually continue to live in the present since they aren't going away where it seems(at least i hope they don't leave). It would also be really nice and less confusing to fans to not have to continue to keep clarifying "time displaced" every time you mention one of them.

#2 Posted by nateb1211 (180 posts) - - Show Bio

No, it's not hard to differentiate who is who.

#3 Posted by Koays (4279 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm i've got it.

Teen Cyclops- Please
Teen Jean- Just
Teen Iceman- Go
Teen Beast- Home
Teen Angel- !!!

#4 Posted by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio

No, it's not hard to differentiate who is who.

It's confusing and annoying to explain. I've explained whats going on in the x-men to friends who don't follow the x-men and you always get the same reaction of people complaining about it being confusing and pointlessly complex.

#5 Posted by Zarius (857 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Hmm i've got it.

Teen Cyclops- Please

Teen Jean- Just

Teen Iceman- Go

Teen Beast- Home

Teen Angel- !!!

"Just" actually sounds like it fits Jean

#6 Posted by HAWK2916 (2515 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Lmfao!! That is awesome and so true. I dont think we need to call them anything other than another poorly executed idea.

#7 Posted by Night4345 (7603 posts) - - Show Bio
@koays said:

Hmm i've got it.

Teen Cyclops- Please

Teen Jean- Just

Teen Iceman- Go

Teen Beast- Home

Teen Angel- !!!

This except Kidclops. I'm enjoying his adventure with his father so far but the rest are boring.

#8 Edited by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio
@hawk2916 said:

@koays: Lmfao!! That is awesome and so true. I dont think we need to call them anything other than another poorly executed idea.

What's poorly done about them other then Battle of the Atom? They're pretty much completely different characters from their older counterparts except for Bobby.

#9 Posted by StarWatcher (534 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Hmm i've got it.

Teen Cyclops- Please

Teen Jean- Just

Teen Iceman- Go

Teen Beast- Home

Teen Angel- !!!

I approve of this very much.

#10 Edited by adamTRMM (3328 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Hmm i've got it.

Teen Cyclops- Please

Teen Jean- Just

Teen Iceman- Go

Teen Beast- Home

Teen Angel- !!!

I mean it!!

#11 Posted by Avenger85 (3108 posts) - - Show Bio

No

#12 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5096 posts) - - Show Bio

jean grey aka marvel phoenix

#13 Posted by Shebba (293 posts) - - Show Bio

No please sent them back because even naming them differently it still be confuse. Battle for Atom was the most confuse comic I ever read.

#14 Posted by God_Spawn (39559 posts) - - Show Bio

What is so confusing? It's Cyclops from the past, or Beast from the past.

Moderator Online
#15 Edited by Squares (8661 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

@shebba said:

No please sent them back because even naming them differently it still be confuse. Battle for Atom was the most confuse comic I ever read.

You REALLY need to read more comics, then.

#16 Posted by Koays (4279 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916: @night4345: @starwatcher:

@adamtrmm said:

I mean it!!

Lol thank you, thank you. Join me next week when I attempt to describe AvX using only synonyms for stupid.


@teerack said:
@hawk2916 said:

@koays: Lmfao!! That is awesome and so true. I dont think we need to call them anything other than another poorly executed idea.

What's poorly done about them other then Battle of the Atom? They're pretty much completely different characters from their older counterparts except for Bobby.

Well just for starters the Trial of Jean Grey was very poorly written and filled with plotholes. But more importantly the entire premise of "O5 X-Men stay in the present to help improve their future" has been completely ignored since they aren't doing anything to improve their personal futures or the current 616 at all. Plus the two threats they've faced that were current X-Men villains were forgotten about right afterwards despite being major things they could've focused on fixing in the present. Even if they are different characters the story isn't treating them like it since all they do is whine about the future of the characters they don't want to grow up to be....there's alot thats poorly executed with this book.

#17 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5096 posts) - - Show Bio

What is so confusing? It's Cyclops from the past, or Beast from the past.

teen cyclops(tyke) or teen beast

#18 Posted by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

@hawk2916: @night4345: @starwatcher:

Lol thank you, thank you. Join me next week when I attempt to describe AvX using only synonyms for stupid.

@teerack said:
@hawk2916 said:

@koays: Lmfao!! That is awesome and so true. I dont think we need to call them anything other than another poorly executed idea.

What's poorly done about them other then Battle of the Atom? They're pretty much completely different characters from their older counterparts except for Bobby.

Well just for starters the Trial of Jean Grey was very poorly written and filled with plotholes. But more importantly the entire premise of "O5 X-Men stay in the present to help improve their future" has been completely ignored since they aren't doing anything to improve their personal futures or the current 616 at all. Plus the two threats they've faced that were current X-Men villains were forgotten about right afterwards despite being major things they could've focused on fixing in the present. Even if they are different characters the story isn't treating them like it since all they do is whine about the future of the characters they don't want to grow up to be....there's alot thats poorly executed with this book.

You're really grasping at straws here man. All of the issues with the trail of Jean Grey had to do with Gladiator and the Shi'ar, but there was nothing wrong with the original five. The second complaint about the kids not focusing on the other villains they went up against makes it seem like you aren't aware there are like 10 x-men books right now? All of those story lines continued just not in All-New and if they did continue in All-New it would have only be out of stupidity since the adult x-men aren't going to go "LETS KEEP THROWING THESE UNTRAINED KIDS AT OUR MOST DANGEROUS VILLAINS LOLOLOL." They're still learning. Hank has already confessed openly to everyone that he lied to get them here in hopes of scaring Scott straight, and since then they have tried to send them back and can't and are now just part of the present 616 continuum. What would you do in order to have them fix the present? Just have them go kill the red skull in issue 10, kill sinister in issue 11, and have Scott Summer elected president in issue 13? They're kids and they have hardly had any time to catch their breath since the start of the series, so saying they have forgotten all about fixing things is a bit crazy. They also don't whine about who the become except for Bobby. Warren is scared of what happens to him, Jean is angry about what happens to her, Hank is disgusted in himself, and Scott doesn't seem to care either way. I don't think it could be any more clear that they all want to be their own person. I mean literally Bendis has spelled out in the book multiple times they aren't the same people and that they consider themselves their own person.

#19 Posted by Koays (4279 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: Not really grasping at straws here so much as telling it like it is.

The major issue with the Trial is the idea that Jean Grey appearing on Earth provokes such a extreme response Gladiator after all this time, yes. But also the fact that this caused Jean Grey to have such a crisis that she developed a new power. A new power for Jean Grey a character who was already way past the power levels she should've been at, and a who was already considered a unusable story breaker.

The purifier storyline continues nowhere. And it's not about what the adult X-men would or wouldn't allow them to do (because allowing them to stay as long as they did is head scratching enough) it's about what they declared there motives for remaining to be. They said they wanted to change this future, they said they wanted to fix it or avoid it. They spend large amounts of time just doing nothing at the JGS or the NEW Xavier school between adventures doing nothing to effect the 616 and all of the issues they have faced came after them. If you're reason for risking time and space is to effect the future then maybe you should have an adventure where you try to effect it instead of another one where you are effected by something random that has little to do with your motive for staying. They don't need to solve all the problems but they should be the proactive ones not the reactive ones.

And yes they are whining. They have knowledge of how they're futures end up, they don't like it. Rather then attempt to find a way to prevent it (Jean), attempt to find out what lead to it it (Angel), or attempt to improve it (Cyke) they reiterate how much they dislike their futures at every turn without taking any action to change it accept to refuse to leave until that was no longer an option.

The fact is, with all the X-books out there this is the one book where the characters should be actively trying to effect the world. Instead they are basically continuing their whacky 60s adventures by traveling to a completely different Universe.

And if there not the same people then why are they capitalizing off of the names, relationships and comparisons too there older selves? Jean's fight with Emma basically went "I'm not the Jean Grey you have a prob with. Now watch as I am visually upset and react in rage at something that happened to her, while proclaiming how I'm not her" it's a conflict that ends in blatant contradiction on purpose because as much as they try to fight it they are the same person.

The thing is this book has a premise it can't avoid because each of the characters need to have the premise mentioned when you talk about them. But rather then address the issues of the premise they seem more concerned with the future of their future then they do about the future their stuck in. The book is poorly executed because it's trying to have a interesting premise, a complex future arc and be a standard adventure X-men book...and its not committing to any of them

#20 Posted by Claymore1998 (11754 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I have seen Jean being referred to as teeny jeenie at least on battle forum. Seems to fit.

#21 Edited by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio
@koays said:

@teerack: Not really grasping at straws here so much as telling it like it is.

The major issue with the Trial is the idea that Jean Grey appearing on Earth provokes such a extreme response Gladiator after all this time, yes. But also the fact that this caused Jean Grey to have such a crisis that she developed a new power. A new power for Jean Grey a character who was already way past the power levels she should've been at, and a who was already considered a unusable story breaker.

AvX was only a few months ago in comic book time. The Phoenix destroyed dozens of planets on it's way to earth and Gladiator had just had a major conflict with the past Phoenix host. The actual issue that most people had with the trail of Jean Grey was it didn't seem to line up with the development Gladiator went through in Infinity where he should have had a greater respect for the earth.

You are phrasing things like you know a lot of about the original Jean Grey, but what you're actually saying is very contradictory to that. The reason Jean's power turned out the way they did is because Charles Xavier was actively blocking and limiting her powers so that she could grow into them changing the way they developed, it's also a fact that when the Phoenix first made contact with Jean as a young adult it forever changed her being, so not thinking her powers would turn out different without any outside influences is close minded and unimaginative.

@koays said:

@teerack:

The purifier storyline continues nowhere. And it's not about what the adult X-men would or wouldn't allow them to do (because allowing them to stay as long as they did is head scratching enough) it's about what they declared there motives for remaining to be. They said they wanted to change this future, they said they wanted to fix it or avoid it. They spend large amounts of time just doing nothing at the JGS or the NEW Xavier school between adventures doing nothing to effect the 616 and all of the issues they have faced came after them. If you're reason for risking time and space is to effect the future then maybe you should have an adventure where you try to effect it instead of another one where you are effected by something random that has little to do with your motive for staying. They don't need to solve all the problems but they should be the proactive ones not the reactive ones.

The purifier story ended because they won that day and then other more pressing matters happened(Also not every story needs to go on forever). Jean Grey gets kidnapped like 8 houirs later and they are supposed to do what exactly? "Sorry Jean we need to see if we can find more leads on the purifiers" Literally every time they are not getting attacked they are shown training then running off the second something is altered to them. The whole time they were at the JGS they were just trying to understand what was going on. If you're going to focus on a reason they had in the beginning of the book at least take a second to think about the perspective they had on everything(they were totally ignorant) . Battle of the Atom's whole point is to reveal the real reason Jean doesn't want to go back is she doesn't want to die, and all five of them just don't want to accept that their destiny is predetermined.

@koays said:

@teerack:

The fact is, with all the X-books out there this is the one book where the characters should be actively trying to effect the world. Instead they are basically continuing their whacky 60s adventures by traveling to a completely different Universe.

Unless you're the writer you don't get to decide what the book is about.

@koays said:

@teerack:

And if there not the same people then why are they capitalizing off of the names, relationships and comparisons too there older selves? Jean's fight with Emma basically went "I'm not the Jean Grey you have a prob with. Now watch as I am visually upset and react in rage at something that happened to her, while proclaiming how I'm not her" it's a conflict that ends in blatant contradiction on purpose because as much as they try to fight it they are the same person.

Well so far all of the pairings are different. Jean and Scott never really got started. Hank and Jean was being teased, Angel is with X-23, and Cyclops even liked X-23 more then Jean. Jean and Emma had issues because she like you was looking at her as the same person when she isn't. Jean still has feelings up in the air about Scott after he left for space and if you really can't understand how seeing someone you think you will end up with not only cheats on you but choose someone else in another life it can be upsetting. Peter Parker in Spider-Men went to the Ultimate Universe and met Ultimate Gwen Stacey. They both ended up crying and neither of them were the same people they knew. I mean to try and say it doesn't make sense for people to have big reactions to seeing an alternate version of something who is very close to them has to be coming from either a lot of denial or ignorance about people.

You statement here is really more you not accepting but admitting to them being different people.

The capitalizing of the character is equivalent to the kind of capitalizing you see in ultimate comics. Ultimate Peter Parker =/= 616 Peter Parker, but we still get to see him with MJ and Gwen and stuff and it sells books.

It's been explained in various X-Factor, Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four books that to make a parallel reality all it takes is on change in events. What's happened to theses kids is well beyond the point of one change now.

#22 Posted by Koays (4279 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack:

1. I'm speaking as a Jean Grey fan who is skeptical of the writing in this story because the changes to her character began with "You can read minds" "Oh snap I can read minds". Your speaking as if the conjecture that people use to make sense of the writing (lack of Xavier influence leading to this form of development) is stated on panel. Which its not. While the Phoenix and Xavier did have a major effect on her powers and growth it's hasn't been confirmed what caused her growth in power. And the fact that it could be anything from the Phoenix to Xavier is evidence of that. We can assume it was the different environment/experiences but that's both obvious and too simple an explanation for a character with 50 years of history behind them who had something added to their background without explanation.

2. I think your missing the point about the purifiers arc. It's an arc that is exactly what they said they were staying for. I don't blame the characters for handling another situation that happened immediately afterwards I blame the creative decision not to follow up on it. The consistent addition of sideplots and adventures that have nothing to do with being stuck in the future, or changing the future goes against the characters stated motivations. You can defend the characters mindsets, but if their not trying to change at least their personal futures then why are they here? What have they done to advance the plot? The story talks about their issues with there near and distant futures but what have THEY done to effect or change it?

3. If your using that logic snub out my opinion on where the book should puts its focus then there is no point in continuing to discuss this, since my argument is about the execution of the idea and where its lacking. Also the books premise is that these kids are from the past and aren't pleased with their future....i think being active about changing the thing you don't like is the least the characters could do. But instead things happen to them like they would any other X-team when they should probably be the ones trying to make things happen.

4. The O5 are far more intimately connected to their adult counterparts then they are too say their Ultimate ones. The 616 is their future, it's confirmed and is treated as such by the characters. The things that have happened to the Adult X-Men are treated as major issues for the O5 because it is what WILL happen to them and it's why they didn't want to go back in the beginning and why the majority of their development starts and ends with what will happen to their future selves. The narrative has gone out of its way with the near death of Cyclops to establish this connection. So while they may be on different paths they are forever connected to the characters. I'll accept that i'm wrong if Jean finds out about Ultimate Cyclops death and reacts similar to how they did to the knowledge of Xaviers death in the 616. But i think your vastly understating the connection if you think that they are completely different characters, because otherwise dealing with the events of the 616 wouldn't be treated with the urgency it is and their wouldn't be so much emphasis on what they become.

The fact is when it comes to their place in the universe O5 Jean both is and isn't 616 Jean Grey. Their personalities and even powers may be different, but the events of 616 Jean's life are by far the most relevant thing to who O5 Jean is because this is who is she was going to be and still has a potential to become should she return to her timeline.

#23 Posted by Cutter (1026 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually...I think it's a good Idea.

#24 Posted by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: It really just comes down to character expectations. I'm really enjoying the book because I don't see the O5 as old characters but new characters and I don't have any expectations about them because psychologically your mind/identity is defined as "The sum of our experiences accumulated over a lifetime" their life/experiences are totally different and the differences happen when they are teenagers which is the most defining era of a person. These O5 aren't making the adult version of them disappear so I don't see the point in consistently holding them up next to the adult versions of themselves as if they are replacing them.

I've always expected that if Bendis ever sends them home Jean's powers would be too far developed for Xavier to wipe their minds and it would end up retconing the X-Men/MarvelU, so I rather them not go back and become a mini version of a Flashpoint and just be their own individuals(which I think has become the theme of the book).

I'm a big fan of multivariate stories and I always liked it when people would see the different ways they could have turned out, and I just think the idea of the alternate life/versions of them living in the same world is really interesting since it provokes a lot of reactions from people with history with the adult versions.

#25 Posted by Koays (4279 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: Well I agree with the sum of their experiences thing but they really do have the potential on some level to make there adult versions disappear even if they can't effect them directly through knowledge and experience gained. The connection remains between the characters because even though 616 Scott isn't 05 Scott and can't effect him, the death of 05 Scott means the non existence of 616 Scott.

I'm defenitly in agreement to the "Flashpoint" scenario though it will probably be another Age of X/Apocalypse story thats only temporary but takes up half the year. Though I suspect that we'll also likely find out that this is the way time was always supposed to play out anyway.

My major issue I have with this story is that as interesting as declaring these characters to be the exact same O5 and not alterante versions is there seems to be a bit inconsistency with the concern of the Paradoxes that can be caused. Essentially the longer they stay the greater the paradox, since Xavier can't just mindwipe away the fact that his teenage students are now in their 40's after a adventure in the future. And no one seems concerned with the implications of this style of timetravel.

The interactions between characters has always been a really strong point to the story, but there's so much that seems to suffer in getting them that it makes it hard to enjoy. The answering of questions, change of motivations, progression of plot and even potentially cool moments are all playing second fiddle to the O5 learning/meeting weird things in the future. And it seems like the book would've grown more since kid Cyclops met Mystique then it actually has.


#26 Edited by Primebonnick (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Hmm i've got it.

Teen Cyclops- Please

Teen Jean- Just

Teen Iceman- Go

Teen Beast- Home

Teen Angel- !!!

some one get this man a cookie and give him the highest of 5s.

#27 Posted by 4U2NV (145 posts) - - Show Bio

What 4? they should return to their own time. these should have never be created. what a demented.

#28 Posted by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: You should read Magneto it's pretty amazing. I only say that because you said the purifier story didn't continue anywhere.

#29 Edited by Koays (4279 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: I am reading it, and I hadn't actually thought about that particular continuation, probably because it didn't feature the superpowered son or whatever. Still true though.

#30 Posted by AwesomePerson (2719 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Those names actually suit them...

#31 Posted by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio

There are a lot of clones and alternate versions of people in the DC and Marvel universes(Power Girl and Madelyn Pryor for example) I didn't think taking up a new name would be that odd in comics in general.

#32 Edited by HAWK2916 (2515 posts) - - Show Bio

All new xmen is not well done. It seems to drag with no directiin. As Ive mentioned before.... this could have been ok as a story arc, but the event and a whole book is just....blah. I could even stand for them going back and there being some sort of altnate universe created similar to the ultimateU.

#33 Posted by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me just point out coming into the thread to go on about how bad you think the book is, is off topic in this thread since no one seems to realize.

#34 Posted by Psy_chrometer (163 posts) - - Show Bio

I am so glad I'm not reading this. And only because I can't afford it. Sad isn't it?

#35 Posted by HAWK2916 (2515 posts) - - Show Bio

Funny how people like to get upset and cry about others so-called derailing a thread when a simple opinion of the whole scope of the subject seems to disagree with whatever they are fans of. I dont see it as derailing a thread to say the O5 dont need new names because the whole concept can be seen as flawed and therefore should be revamped or scrapped altogether as opposed to spending creative energy on trying to make it more acceptable by renaming them.

#36 Posted by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio
@hawk2916 said:

Funny how people like to get upset and cry about others so-called derailing a thread when a simple opinion of the whole scope of the subject seems to disagree with whatever they are fans of. I dont see it as derailing a thread to say the O5 dont need new names because the whole concept can be seen as flawed and therefore should be revamped or scrapped altogether as opposed to spending creative energy on trying to make it more acceptable by renaming them.

You must be one of those people who lies to themselves and rationalizes everything wrong they do in their head to be right. This isn't a All-New X-Men general discussion thread nor is this a thread meant to talk about the quality of the series. It's a thread about them getting new names which is a very specific thing. Coming into a thread and not even brushing over the subject the OP is talking about just to say "everything about the book is bad" isn't just off topic it's bad posting since it adds nothing to the thread.

#37 Posted by HAWK2916 (2515 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: Nah. Im not so sensitive though that other peoples opinions being expresses is derailing a thread. I dont know howmany times it needs to be said, but the answer to your original question is no, they dont need to be renamed. But I guess for you any post that doesnt agree with your oh so important opinion is "bad posting ". Go on loving youf perfect little book that there is nothing in the least wrong with it, at least your Bendis fix is being satisfied with it. Enjoy it and dont take it personal when others dont, in fact dont worry about it.

#38 Edited by Teerack (9606 posts) - - Show Bio
@hawk2916 said:

@teerack: Nah. Im not so sensitive though that other peoples opinions being expresses is derailing a thread. I dont know howmany times it needs to be said, but the answer to your original question is no, they dont need to be renamed. But I guess for you any post that doesnt agree with your oh so important opinion is "bad posting ". Go on loving youf perfect little book that there is nothing in the least wrong with it, at least your Bendis fix is being satisfied with it. Enjoy it and dont take it personal when others dont, in fact dont worry about it.

Actually if your reading comprehension is where it should be you'd see I wasn't arguing with every post that didn't agree with me.

My favorite part of your post is where you start out with a sentences to help justify the way you're rationalizing making off topic bad posts.

Then you go on to contradict yourself about not being sensitive since in this thread you can see me talking about the issue in the book with someone else and me not saying anything about me finding it perfect, but you clearly just want to rail on me for liking a book you don't like because opinions outside of your views must frustrate you. /shrug

#39 Edited by HAWK2916 (2515 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: My reading comprehension is just where it should be. Its funny that you are now trying to lob insults but of course internet message boards are filled with tough guys. Your little attempt to insult someone for basically not liking what you clearly love shows how sensitive you are being. But like I said you enjoy, have fun with the perfect little book for you. Although if you go back and look at the posts, you originally asked me what's poorly done about them... and again I answered your question. So if anyones reading comprehension is in question its yours. So once again let me say it: No they shouldnt be renamed!! Did you get that? Now am I derailing the thread about your precious little book?