Premonitions of War: IvsX

Ok, there's a conflict ahead of us. In one of the threads on the board somebody posted a quote from Lemire's interview IIRC where he says mutants will face extinction again (duh), and a lot indicates it will all revolve around the Terrigen Mist released as the result of Infinity (that mutants basically weren't even part of, yep).

Cyclops shows off his X-face on one of Uncanny Inhumans early promo covers, then it's revealed Beast joins them as well, and in the end Extra Team in their opening cover are inside what appears to be the Mist itself indicating once again that is important enough to expose it on the cover of flagship's first issue.

So, there are several questions that arise from this evidence:

Do we like that development? Is it forced or natural?

Did we, and our never-ending conspiracy theorizing, basically brought that on ourselves with editorial only adding fuel to the fire already burning so passionately? (gotta admit)

Does it have the potential to be something compelling in the end?

And the most important one, can we not be the losers of this as well, and if yes, how?

I don't think there is going to be a full out war. But if there is, the whole conflict will be messily done and its only purpose will be to humiliate the x-men, just like AvX.

I dont think its natural. It does seem as if it is forced. Mutants have come in contact with the mist before and it hasn't threatened extinction, its caused problems though. I guess it could be explained away as highly concentrated now??

I really think the conspiracy theorist are somewhat right on this one. I think its mostly because of the Fox stuff and Marvel is trying to push the Inhumans also. But in all honesty I dont think the Xmen are easy to write for considering the history and fans.

With Marvel's track record I doubt it will be. The potential is there though. In another thread I listed some stories I thought, could be compelling as a result of a conflict. I think it would present an ethical dilemma which is always compelling. I cant help but fantasize about there being some changes in the Xmen's approach or more likely certain individuals after reading and discussing the thread about Xmen that would make interesting villains. I could just imagine this turning some of those that we discussed in that thread from being Xavier's followers seeking peaceful coexistence to now becoming the new brotherhood (Cyclops, Kitty, Gambit, Iceman, etc)

I think the Xmen could end up not being losers only if Marvel does the right thing and makes the Inhumans leave Earth. They really should on the Blue Side of the Moon or actively trying to fight the Kree or Shiar. They should be establishing there own colonies on other planets, of which earth could be one, but just not home. To me it seems as if things are getting quite crowded, so there should something to distinguish the different teams. Having the Inhumans take the hated and feared mantra shouldn't be in the cards. Now if it was something along the lines of how the movie District 9 was or experimentation and scientific testing that might work to some extent. But really the Inhumans dealing with the Kree and fighting within their own factions is interesting enough for them to stay separate and in their own space

It has potential to be a good story, but it could also devolve into a contrived 'IvX' mega event.

Seriously though It comes down to the level of commitment Marvel is willing to have to the idea of to of their factions going at it. I mean we can site Civil War as a great starting point for what we're looking at, but in the end it's going to need to be a 100% dedicated and fully fleshed out arc.

The real reason AvX failed so terribly, wasn't because of how disjointed and ill conceived the character motivations were. But because it had no lasting effects on the interactions between the two sides who nearly wiped eachother out. The Avenger's should've been on the sh*t list of every X-Man whether they were with Cyclops or not, there should've been a huge air of distrust towards and amongst the JGS roster and more then that the X-Men should've been the most distrusted faction in comics since they teamed up with a cosmic force and locked half of the heroes of the planet in a hell dimension. But instead it seemed like we were promised at least a satisfying fall out from the wreckage when after the fourth issue of every post AvX book the whole thing never happened.

To me this new conflict is something that they need to be willing to go all out with. The X-Men don't like the Inhumans, then make sure that the next company crossover doesn't have Storm standing next to Medusa. Make sure the characters act like people who are in a conflict. And make sure that it's as big a part (or at least a very present factor) of the Inhumans book as it is a part of the X-Men. These 2 factions need to be sworn adversaries instead of slightly annoyed and their need to grudges and consequences to actions.

If the effort is put into the story, and we get to see a fleshed out arc from 2 different perspectives, without being afraid to throw punches or do things that you wouldnt normally do to characters and products that your company also owns and it leaves a lasting impact on the characters as opposed to being the low end of relevant interaction/development that we've seen from the Aaron/Bendis Era, then this can be epic and game changing in a way we haven't seen since the X-Men entered the 90's or 00's with new direction.........But if it's not...well then we can at least take comfort in the fact that after 5 years....we're used to getting halfassed stories.

@koays: What would have to happen for it to be game changing in your opinion? And how would it change?

Honestly they'd need to treat this like this is the last straw for the mutants.

I can't speak on the Inhumans and how they should/could be portrayed, and really we don't have enough info to even form a slight picture here on the X-Men's situation. But the way i see it, the X-Men need to be fed up. The same way Cyclops was ready to breakdown after everything he'd been through that led to him living in a snow bank with mutant teenagers, the X-Men need to be at their wits end. Maybe (and most likely) not violent from the get go, but definitely on the edge of cracking under pressure since this is like the third time the World has screwed them over in a very short time Inuniverse.

What i'm thinking that makes it game changing, would have to be a sort of "Fight on on sight" mentality. There needs to be one fight early on, that the X-Men escalate to the level that you'd expect given their Extra-Men line up, and it needs to be something that isn't easy to sweep under rug. And the Inhumans need to be portrayed as the heroes, because at the end of the day the X-Fan's just relate to that imagery better. And honestly the question that the X-Men need to be struggling with, given the Inhuman's position, the current Uncanny team, and the utter short end of the the respect stick that the X-Men have gotten inuniverse....i think the question needs to be whether or not the X-Men are done being humanity's hero's or if mutants would just be far better off away from all this. And more then that while their having these doubts, the conflict between X-Man and Inhuman needs to become "Mutant vs Inhuman" in both a social observation (comparing 2 people who on the surface are identical but come from vastly different cultures and are percieved differently), and what should border on a race war.

Taking the X-Men to it's roots as a social commentary with the two groups of Inhuman and X-Men as Israel and Palestine, while giving the X-Men a chance to unexpectedly take the position of leadership and influence in the mutant community that they haven't really established since the reversal of M-Day.

Sounds like they are re-treading AvX.

The war is already over, it took place in the eight months period from the end of SW to when new titles launch and the mutants lost.

@koays: I like the Israel-Palestine comparison. Lord knows I've been over there enough to know that thing will never end. I also like that you're being realistic in painting the xmen as the villains, which I would hate to have happen but that's Marvel now. This also gives the xmen more factions if you will as you pointed out. You could Xtra still trying to peacefully coexist and police the mutants who are causing harm. Uncanny could be the ones being more aggressive in going to war. And bring back Astonishing or adjectiveless and have it about those who decide to stop being earths heroes and find a home off planet. Lots of different philosophies and clear divisions between books. Now That could be interesting

@hawk2916: My thing is that you sort of have to make the X-Men the bad guys in the eyes of most of the world at least because I feel them coming out of AvX as D-List Avenger's who happily stay out of things unless Captain America needs to recruit from their roster...well it kind of took away a lot of the Hated and Feared aspect especially for the JGS team. It might be a bit of my bias, but to me the X-Men are a little better when the option to have Wolverine call up Cap and get them some good press is off the table and they have to work things out on there own because they've got no one else to really turn to. If that reason is because the rest of Marvel is more trusting of the established Empire with a clear power structure then of the large group of mutants who switch teams, go evil and have 6 wholey different team's with varying levels of legality...well it's something we can understand, but still see as unfair.

For the Israel and Palestine comparison, i would think that it's something that would translate into both intelligent and deep stories while at the same time providing a level of gravitas to the X-Men that has been lacking (mostly do to not exploring deeper consequences of previous status quo changes). Every day that ends with mutants hiding or with their backs against the wall is a future reason for Magneto to go to war with the Inhuman's. Every human or hero that would rather just ignore the problem or write it off as another "Ethnic Conflict" is a future reason for Storm or Cyclops to lose faith in the world outside their people, and every battle that ends with the X-Men celebrating over rubble or planning for retaliation is a reason for the younger or just more hopeful X-Men to want to find away to get away from it all.

And that's really just the X-Men side of a conflict that i think should escalate and die down and become a source of endless future ammunition for writers to revisit something other then Humanity vs Mutant when it they want to make a story with social commentary.

@koays: That would definitely be a change for the Xmen and Inhumans to just basically go to war over a place on Earth. Like I said it opens up so much from the differing factions stand point. Also in line with the conflict there would be a constant realigning of the other teams like Avengers etc. Much like how differing nation support or oppose the Israelis and somewhat Palestinians depending on the latest circumstances. Adding in the conflicts with the Kree(inhuman creators) and humans not as the focus but still underlying could make for some interesting things. Plus if this were to play out these types of issues would also bolster the importance of the Uncanny Avengers being that they would have representatives from all groups and would deal with threats to all and possibly could function as an Illuminati working behind the scenes. This could really be the next 10-15 years worth of storytelling.

I would have to admit though that I'm not really keen on this. I feel like the Inhumans could have great stories separate from the Xmen and should not be pushed into the xmens place. Also I'm not really a fan of switching the hated and feared humans vs mutants thing because I still think there are plenty of stories that could be told and things that could be explored on a deeper level. Adding the Inhumans just makes things crowded and really an ongoing war between them and the mutants might get just as boring and tiresome as the ongoing neverending conflict between Is real and Palestine. I mean everyone is sick of them and there's been a frowing sentiment that we should nuke the whole area and blow them off the map because it would never stop. To have the Inhumans and Mutants fighting over who should be the next victim or who should be the most hated and feared would be the equivalent of the old rap verse where the artist talked about slaves on a slave ship arguing about who had the biggest chains.

like avx but the x-men winning this time :PPPPPP :)

Yeah I think I'm officially tired of all this mutant extinction plots - Legacy virus was slowly killing all X-gene positive characters back in the day, and then voila, Elixir just punks it with a touch. X-gene was magically deactivated, and voila Phoenix comes and reactivates it again. What's next, Terrigen Mist messes with the X-gene (once again) and Celestials will arrive to save their project? No, I have a better idea, Wolverine (the real one, duh) comes back to life and provides an immunity vaccine "only his healing factor can deliver!"

Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a bad comparison since we're talking a territorial (and strictly such) conflict that turned into a mass media event and ideological confrontation for generations now. That something that couldn't and shouldn't be what we're dealing is. With mutants and inhumans, we're dealing with basically children of men, superhuman cousins that have so much in common, yet are in the middle of confrontation that we're now not even sure of the reasons.

Yea, I think it's pretty clear we don't even have enough information to make any speculations, only wishful thinking and potential exposure at best...

@adamtrmm: yea good points about the x-gene. Wolverine coming back with a healing factor and curing this would be hilarious. Or maybe this Nuangel can just burn his powers out curing this mess and then we get the real Warren back lol. Isreal-Palestine is only being used to show the stupidity and potential for unresolved and dangling plots that can come from this. It would be tiresome just like that conflict. As someone who's done 3 tours in the area trust me its very tiresome

@hawk2916:

How about that, this conflict is my every day. I can't comment on the subject for personal reasons, and it might not end well so I prefer to stay out of it lol

Again, post-human issues, that's what I'll be looking for in this evolutionary clash. Hopefully, if they really go there for more than an arc, Lemire, Bunn and Soule do something complex with it.

@adamtrmm: I hear you bro. I just don't want another hero vs hero never ending conflict is all I'm saying. That type of storytelling is getting old just like the constant time travel. Both DOFP and Civil War were interesting concepts but I wonder if they did us a disservice in the long run

@hawk2916:

I fully agree, both storytelling traits are old as f@ck and need some rejuvenation and innovation (though even then experience tells it can go wrong), but sticking with grey might be also good enough. Making it feel more complex and honest instead of forced and preachy. I keep repeating having factions withing the same "sub-universe" (X's) doesn't necessarily means they have to fight and troll each other constantly.

@adamtrmm: I agree. Different factions could be just different ways of accomplishing goals. Or just different aspects of the same overall goal. The infighting is not necessary. Actually all the infighting is directly contradictory to what the xmen are supposed to be about which is equality and acceptance of differences.

that will be cool! marvel should do inhumans vs x-men !!

@hawk2916:

That's why I have some hope looking at post-SW titles, I'm almost sure Bunn and Lemire won't be dealing with that pettiness and just will let their teams do their own things, like you know, they're supposed to.