Omega-Level

A lot of people do forget that often times in comics that nothing is truly immune to anything as writers will distort facts to fit the plot they are trying to tell. Also I logically would not expect Magneto's helmet to be completely immune to any and all telepathic attacks as the telepathy of the Phoenix or a being using the power cosmic or maybe even a telepathic feat by the Living Tribunal should not be stopped by something earth bound as his helmet. If his helmet had cosmic origins and was instilled with a technology well beyond human means then depending on the its origins (maybe it would come from the White Hot Room or something of the sort) I would say it has full immunity to telepathy. But other than that I say that the helmets gives extremely high resistance that hasn't been broken as of the time it was granted the title of immunity because for all practical purposes it was immune. The strongest telepath of the time, Xavier, couldn't get through. That was validation enough (at the time) for it to be considered immune to telepathic attacked. By the way, who ascertained that it was immune? By whose authority was it called immune?

On to the topic of Jean Grey. As I have already stated, upon time of it being titled immune, Xavier couldn't even get in. That would be enough evidence to convince anybody of its immunity and therefore it was considered so. Jean on the other hand had a lot more power than Xavier in the telepathic field (though probably not the same amount of skill). The previous threshold for immunity was ruptured by her because she reached a level of power that was previously impossible to achieve. No longer is the helmet completely immune to all telepathic attacks on earth as the mark for immunity has risen. We can see this concerning Jean a couple of times. First (and though not everybody agrees to this) she had access to magneto's mind during the Dazzler incident, secondly she got through Juggernaut's helmet which was also considered immune to telepathic attack since Xavier couldn't get through, thirdly she got past Emma's Diamond form which was also considered immune. They were all considered immune in an era until met upon by Jean Grey because the amount of power necessary to get through their defenses was unheard of and unattainable prior to encounters with her. Jean Grey raised the bar. It has even been stated that at the pinnacle of Jean's power, no psychic shielding could hold against her telepathy.

Avoided this topic since it first showed up on the feed, for fear of the war to come. I was right too

a number of explanations have been proposed for his unusually strong resistance to telepathy, among them: 1. technology wired into his helmet (the explanation given in the xm film series), 2. some physical aspect of his electromagnetic powers that can interfere with telepathy (he once used the earth's magnetic field to dampen the powers of all telepaths within his reach), 3. latent telepathic powers of his own or 4. sheer force of will. the theme of latent telepathic powers has been explored in a number of stories, among them the secret wars limited series. In some of his earliest appearances, magneto was depicted as capable of engaging in astral projection. he has also, on rare occasions, been shown reading other's dreams, issuing telepathic commands, and probing the minds of others. he has demonstrated the ability to shield his mind, while in intense meditation, so completely that even emma frost was not able to read his thoughts, despite being directly in front of him and actively attempting to do so.

about jean and magneto, if this was true, so what exactly was there to stop xavier and jean from owning magneto every time they fought? unless something happened.

Magneto's helmet I've not completely understood, and it seems that different writers have had different takes on how it works as well. One aspect is that magneto himself is remarkably resistant to telepathy on his own because he actually has a high telepathic potential. The helmet may augment this in some way, presumably using sort of the opposite effect of Cerebro. It is also possible that it is a focus for his magnetic powers in some way as they interact with telepath either redirecting the psionic energy he uses to manipulate magnetism to serve a different psychic function (protecting him from the telepathic form of psychic abilities) another aspect is that in the marvel universe, magnetic fields effect telepathy in some unexplained way. As someone already pointed out, Magneto actually used his powers at one point to alter the magnetic field of the earth so as to make long distance telepathy much more difficult. Now this should make him an Omega.

But I'm affraid I have to agree with some people here that Jean did have access to Magneto's mind. I'm a fan of Jean just like I'm a fan of Magneto, but the fact is the fact. So those who have the point I'll give it to them and those who don't I'll take it away. Too bad for some of you who didn't know about this. But I'm telling ya, it did happened. It's confusing, but all I can say is read the story and find out for yourself.

I think Magneto himself is just considered such a badass it is stated he can block telepathy (along with the many other powers he has had over the lenght of his life).

The plot was stopping them that and character morality. Even when Xavier needed Jean to pierce his mind, Jean was hesitant to use her telepathy in a way that went against what she was taught by Xavier morally. We find out later Jean was also holding back and had not been exploring the depths of her powers after what happened with Phoenix because using any more power than usual made the others uncomfortable. After Scott was nearly killed by OZT she stopped holding back and started to play around with her limits. When she stopped doing this and letting what Xavier taught her get in the way, she had more than enough power to get into his mind by herself.

I am pretty sure those rumors were incorrect to begin with - sounds like they are confusing two stories: 1) the What If? story, and 2) the story with her gaining the power cosmic with something else. I'm open to being corrected, though, but IIRC - she never confronted Magneto during any of her most powerful incarnations.

Dazzler might be considered an Omega-class mutant - she has no limitation to the amount of sound she can transduce. However, she can't be a proper Omega-level mutant because her energy projection and control is directly tied to how much sound she has stored. It puts an upper limit on her power level to need to rely on an external source to her abilities - she's very similar to Storm, Magneto and other extremely powerful Alphas in that regard. Her power is quirky, and the best powerup would simply be to make her able to manipulate and project light energy without sound.

Anyway, light is on the EM spectrum, so I would still think she'd have issues fighting Magneto without a massive power-up - even Storm has never had success using lightning/thunder against him, and that's one of her most developed feats.

Gallery

First picture and Second - Gives Jean/Phoenix a planetary scale stroke.

Third Pic - He can do stuff like this when needed.

Forth and Fifth Pics- VS phoenix siphons life energy.

Sixth Pic - His forcefields have withstood the phoenix (weakened phoenix but still the phoenix).

And last Pic - In mental battle with Xavier and is able to effect the bolts in his chair from a great distance away.

I might be Chinese and only have live in the comics world for 12 years, but atlease in those years I've gain some knowledge. I don't only wait every month for a comic, I go to the store every weekend and buy like 20 or 30 comics and sometime I do that twice a week. I don't know anything about Jean taking Magneto Mind but all I can think of is something went wrong. Plus Xorn was Magneto since he looks like him very much. I thought he must have came from the past or future just like the O5. And don't know if anyone noticed, but Xorn Jean had the same mask as the one from Xorm (Magneto).

@shebba Yeah, just replying to the mask. I don't know if anybody here would consider Lady Xorn (the name I use to refer to Xorn Jean) to be more powerful than the original Jean, but the mask was supposed to provide telepathic immunity. Immunity where telepathy shouldn't be able to work through it however Lady Xorn's telepathy was so strong that it only proved to be a psi-damper to help her control her growing powers. Still, even with it on she was able to beat the Cuckoos and Emma Frost single-handedly as well as knock out Phoenix Kid Omega. That shows immense power on her part. Remember that this is technically the same Jean who took a different route in life. The original Jean is capable of such feats as they are the same person in the same reality, not even from alternate realities. Whether she was capable before her death is debatable, but she capable.

strange because he reshapes the metal at the molecular level so it has the anti-psionic abilities necessary to keep his mind from being or affected by telepathic abilities. the metal is likely highly magnetized, since strong magnetic fields reduce or prevent telepaths from being able to read minds. also, he does not need the helmet to protect his mind from being read. an active use of his power can do the same thing. the helmet allows him to not focus any effort to protecting his mind and gives an added layer of protection against alpha or omega level telepaths such as jean grey or professor x.

What in the name of GOD just happened here...lol.

Sorry I wont be able to reply to all of you...too many to type...lol.

In my own opinion, Magneto is Magneto no matter what. We might don't call him an Omega-Level, but we can call him the Master of Magnetism. I'm happy to know he is the master and despite not considered an Omega...he has shown many potential and feats...which would make me happy to know he had done well during his past life. The whole point was that he was too strong and too skilled for any single X-Man to fight, and it took the whole team working together to beat him. Although...Magneto typically focuses on the magnetic aspect of his powers...he has demonstrated control over the entire E-M spectrum in the past. In addition, he has shown control over gravity...and had that wormhole feat too. And on top of all of that, he is supposed to have a ton of latent, untapped psionic potential as well. Put all of those things together...and it's clear that his powers extend far beyond simple "ferrokinesis" (as someone stated). Magneto is easily worthy of being an Omega mutant, in my opinion. He's basically the walking unified field theory. In my heart...he is an Omega.

About the helmet UGH...baffles me in the Eve of Destruction 1-4. As much as I REALLY hate to say this (which it make me feel like I'm blasphemous to the Master) Jean did somehow distract Magneto during that battle. But let's be fair...it was Jean, Dazzler, and Prof-X who actually was doing the whole plan. Dazzler with her holographic images...Jean with her distraction...and Prof-X preventing him using his power. This wasn't just Jean. I speak with proof, as I know I have those comics right in my basement (I will post them as soon as I find them cause I have to go though many boxes). But this is not it. As I will show you...in a panel you can see magneto with his helmet and when you turn the next page...weirdly he doesn't have it. It is confusing and I try to understand myself of...what exactly happened here? All I know it took not 1..or 2, but 3 to do what they did. Magneto's helmet was able to block telepathy by him using his powers to warp the metal so that it bent the direct pathway to his mind while he wore the helmet...unless you directly struck him point blank with a blast. I think it's fairly evident to see he makes progress with his powers...because it showed he won't go down that easily.

Jean vs Magneto...no comment. Jean can beat Magneto and Magneto can withstand Jean (at lease for a few mins).

There is something else I would like to show...which I thought I should post it here. Is an image of my Email and just wanted to show you what I just found last night (I haven't check my email for a past few days), but it was too late to come here. I'm free today and FINALLY I am...lol. Working in the studio the whole time feels like my life been sucked in there...lol. So What Do You See?

@cutter: Post a scan

@phoenixofthetides: Like I said they were just rumors.

@flavalon: Post a scan

Ppl keep saying it did it did happened, but no one post a scan

@moonlighterstone: I know how you feel. Trust me I've been there myself. I know Dazzler explained to Magneto she was using her Hologram while Jean make him believe she was dead...Something like that is what I remember...but...yea...it's kind of confusing though. I will scan some panels once I find them. I certainly disapprove of the whole thing about the incident in EoD...when in fact...it was suppose to block telephatic. I guess it mean that Jean had a chance to distract him. The story is years old so I can't tell you quite specifically, but at lease that's what it looks like. I know I have those books...especially those with the Acolytes in it...like Colossus, Amelia, and Frenzy. Frenzy was being controlled by Jean to join them (as an X-Men) and Amelia disobeyed Magneto. Like I say...I disapprove of the EoD incident.

I'm totally confused. U'r saying he was distracted, but not controlled? All I remember from that event was that Magneto was fighting all of the xm. When Jean was leading some weird team and they ended up in Genosha. I just don't remember anything about Jean having access to Magneto's mind. This is absurd and does not make sense to me at all. Just post some scans.

Well...like I say...it is confusing...I will POST a scan...lol

U must.

@cutter: Are you finally getting in touch with Tom D. If so, congratulation. Hope everything goes well.

Let me get back to the topic. Magneto can always win. In the comics his powers are much greater than in the movies. Xavier cannot use telekinesis, thus he cannot remove Magneto's helmet and therefore cannot stop him. Jean? Impossible except if the writer misunderstood the concept of Magneto. Magneto on the other hand can rip the iron from Jean, shock her with electricity, throw objects , or a myriad of other things. Jean might be powerful or omega, but Max don't stay behind with his feats. He truly can put up a fight. Jean is not a god and Magneto did fought with a mighty god Thor. I just never saw this happen and I believe that's what the helmet is made for. It wasn't made just for fashion. It was made for a simple reason and that is to block psychic abilities. Man, this is wrong.

@blackblade: Jean can do the same things as Magneto and better! Why? she controls ALL forms of energy which includes magnetism for those who can't understand! It's only the writers who are stupid and can't develop all of the aspect of Jean's powers and limits her to simple TK when she can generate other(all!) forms of energy. It's what an Omega level is originally! I don't count Iceman, Storm and others supposed Omega level because they are NOT real Omega level mutants(except Kid Omega and Jean's children). An Omega is supposed to generate ALL the type of existing form of energy and not only ONE! That's why I'm against the fact Iceman and Storm are Omega level mutants. If Magneto is not considered an Omega level, Iceman, Storm and others can't be classified as such too!

It is true that Mags and Grey have similar powers. Grey however, can control more than simply metal. I cannot say though that this would give her an advantage. It seems by the comics, that Grey has to concentrate more when moving objects than Mags does. and in a battle with Mags, time is something you cannot afford to waste.

Storm is powerful, she is/was one of the twelve (not sure if all the twelve still have their powers now due to M day), but not omega level (Iceman is an omega level). she can not alter the entire planet's ecosystem just small areas. she can attune herself to any weather condition of any planet but that doesn't mean she can control it. And the more sever the ecosystem is that she try to controls it could hurt her because she is not immune to it!

I completely agree with you. Bobby and the rest of those (who's classification are omega) shouldn't be naming omega if Magneto don't qualify as an omega (lol). Beside Magneto (lets face it), If he want to he can destroy the whole planet. Yup that's right, and why? Because electromagnetism is one of the obvious and ubiquitous forces we see in day to day life. From the electricity used in all of our modern technology, to shape of the solar winds, to the cohesion of matter, the electrochemical signals of the nervous system, electromagnetism is responsible for them all... GLOBALLY. Magneto should actually be an omega level. As @Cutter stated "Magneto is easily worthy of being an omega mutant. He's basically the walking Unified Field Theory." And this is so true.

I add this: I agree that Magneto is extremly powerful and has a variety of effects with his powers but I think you make a confusion between the "type of power"(Omega level mutant=Jean Grey) and the "level of the mutation"(it has many levels between the telepaths fro example). For example: Polaris is(supposed) weaker than Magneto, it's her level of mutation. Between the Omega level mutants, we see there's difference of level of their mutation even if all of them are Omega! Do you understand what I mean?

I think he is omega. he's such a bad bad badasssss. Iceman shouldn't, Storm is not, Apocalypse never was, Jean unfortunately, Vulcan maybe and the rest is just a pointless to be in this classification.

Didn't work on Jean in Genorsha, didn't work on Xavier at Illyanas Funeral and it didn't work when Xavier mind wiped him. His "immunity" is high resistance and a powerful telepath that really wants to get in can, Xavier and Jean were the most powerful and skilled telepaths on Earth it not surprising at all.

@lordofallhumans: Didn't work on Jean in Genorsha, didn't work on Xavier at Illyanas Funeral and it didn't work when Xavier mind wiped him. His "immunity" is high resistance and a powerful telepath that really wants to get in can, Xavier and Jean were the most powerful and skilled telepaths on Earth it not surprising at all.

Didn't Xavier have to attack Magneto with his helmet off in order to mentally lobotomise him after Magneto ripped out Wolverine's adamantium (resulting in Onslaught being created and all that stuff)? I remember in the older comics they always had Magneto having some kind of vague psi-powers through his magnetism, or some other way of blocking it. I guess you already know im a fan of the bad bad badasssss.

The helmet was nothing but a helmet before the Xmen movies, Magnetos psychic protection came from his own will power. A fan would know that. Even his old vague uses of psi powers back in the day were never attributed to his magnetic powers, as that doesn't even make much sense. It has been established in Marvel for decades that all races capable of performing magic also have latent psi powers that can be unlocked through training and meditation. This is the reason people like Dr. Strange can read minds, astral project and use telekinesis, so if they ever felt the need to explain the bad writing that gave him psi powers in a few issues that would be the best explanation. His psychic protection whether will based or helmet based as been bypassed by Xavier and Jean in the past.

I have serious doubts on this one, Xavier is one of the most powerful telepaths in the universe, but I have discover this: "In previous years Magneto has apparently exhibited powers of astral projection and telepathy, and has claimed to be able to control the minds of others. His abilities along these lines are minimal, however-enough, perhaps, to protect himself against mightier telepaths, but not of great use otherwise". If he can create a mental barrier that would provide him enough time to win in a battle against Xavier.

I think the answer is Xavier can't get to Magneto's mind when he has the helmet on anyway. I have a comic where Cyclops slices Magnetos helmet in order for Xavier to stop Magneto from using his powers on Wolverine (again he tried to rip the adamantium of his skeleton). This is where Magneto cannot use his powers, and because of this, Wolverine stabs Magneto. It seemed to me, helmet = protection, even in comics.

That's the same issue when Dazzeler says Jean used her telepathy to trick him, with the helmet on. Scott did not slice it in half in order to do anything except protect himself when Magneto used the helmet as a projectile.

@lordofallhumans: Dazzler? Ok... from what comic you're talking about my brotha?

Like you said, helmet wasn't an issue back then.

I know that It blocks Professor X's mind powers, and prevents him from locating him using Cerebro, plus it's awesome :)

That's what I have been trying to explain to this "fan" of Magneto.

The one you claim you have and I'm not your brotha.

Does it offend you if someone calls you bro? Its a friendly way of saying friend without it sounding awkward. HI FRIEND.

Even so I believe Magneto can create a mental barrier or a force field, that would provide him time enough to beat Xavier in a fight.

I would challenge that. New Son clearly showed a limit in how much power he could have. Simply being able to destroy the world is not a qualifier in my opinion.

Only my brothers call me bro, and we are not friends... now back to the topic.

When he was mind wiped there was a barrier that Xavier needed Jean to help pierce and it was pierced. When he attack the funeral it was stated that there as some kind of interference blocking the telepaths, but Xavier still managed to take over his powers and launch Avalon into space. You believe he can create this barrier and I know that if he does telepaths like Xavier and Jean can get through it.

@lordofallhumans: that was in fatal attractions so which want you're saying I have?

you said you have an issue when Cyclops splits the helmet in half, that is the same issue in Genosha when Jeans team comes to rescue Xavier, the previous issue shows him killing Dazzler, we find out in the issue you say you have that he didn't do anything to Dazzler Jean telepathically tricked him into believing he killed her so that she could aid in freeing Xavier.

Lol you just reminded me Eve of Destruction was almost Planet X inadequate. Almost.

No my brrr ups. I believe with what my bro and I grew up with. The bad bad badasssss Magneto. My first day here and I have to tell you I had a really really great time which was a waste time but it was worth it. I think am challenging with another pro nerd. I might don't know everything from comics, but I know who are the X men as I know who is Magneto. Only a nerd can possibly know more and for that I'll give it all to you my brrr ups. I'm gonna have to stop saying that lol. Nigga like me from New York, even we don't know each other, we say What's Up My Brotha or what up Nigga. Would you rather me call people Sis instead? I say bro but I don't say it at the end of every single sentence with other weird lingo. I just use it every once and a while. Thats like saying everyone that plays WoW is fat, wears glasses, nerdy, and plays it 24/7.

Nope. That not how it happened.

R U reading Cutter statement? According to him there is no cyclops blasting off Magnus helmet.

@moonlighterstone: Let me guess you're another nerdy? LMAO

That's exactly how it happened and how Dazzler even explained it, but I'm not going to go back and forth with a person that doesn't know the basic functions of power they are arguing against. Telepathy is mind to mind, it cannot happen unless one mind touches another, Jean is a telepath her telepathic powers work on minds, if she makes a person believe something she does so telepathically.

@4u2nv: Excuse me? U have the balls to come here calling ppl nerdy. Oh and BTW by calling ppl a bro without not knowing them will consider U as a douchebags.

@moonlighterstone: I'm outaa here. I'm too high and stone to deal with nerds right now. But I'll be back lol.

Not to mention being omega is obviously some kind of genetic marker since the Shi'ar knew who was one and who was not during Endsong, so having a piece of your brain removed to limit your power should not prevent you from being an omega level mutant. Most confirmed omegas can't destroy the world at their current levels anyway.

My bad I didn't see this. I reread the whole thing again and I don't C Cyclops name near anywhere, but if U so sure why don't U post some scans and put an end to this topic.

Stop tagging please.

@moonlighterstone: Because scans were posted on page three of this thread and still ignored with some crap about telepathic illusions being the same as illusions being created by light bending.

But I thought Dazzlers was the one that created a hologram image? Image can also be an illusion as we all so confused about.

I agree.

She create an image around herself to look like Xavier, and that was all she did. Jean made Magneto believe he killed Allison so that she could impersonate Xavier.