#1 Edited by Koays (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

Since Schism people have been complaining about how the X-Men's individual characters weren't being considered when they had to choose between Scott and Logan (Utopia or Jean Grey School). After AvX we got another split, with most of the X-Men joining the JGS and only Emma Frost, Magneto and Magik siding with Scott despite many readers feeling that some characters would've been sympathetic too Scott's current plight (guilt ridden over Xavier's death and still trying to lead a proactive X-team).

So lets say were back in a situation like Uncanny X-Men #4 but post BotA, every current X-man/force/factor/mutant Avenger is there for a picnic and Scott makes the offer to join the revolution. We know someone will bring up AvX and Scott and Logan will make their cases but the question is: Who joins Scott who stays with Logan?

#2 Posted by Koays (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

Personal teams
Cyclops- Emma Frost, Magik, Magneto, Rachel Grey, Cable, Domino, Dr. Nemesis(most of Cable's X-Force team), the All New X-men, Gambit, Bishop.
Wolverine- Kitty, Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Warbird, Northstar, Psylocke, Firestar, Jubilee, Iceman, Beast, Polaris, Rogue, Quentin Quire.

#3 Edited by MN_Logan (235 posts) - - Show Bio

I would of liked to have seen Warpath, Rachel, and Gambit go to Scott's side. Especially Warpath and Rachel, I honestly don't know why those two aren't with Cyclops already. All things considered though, I think the make up of the teams after the events of AvX make sense for the most part, seeing as anyone who joins Cyclops is basically putting a target on their back for S.H.I.E.L.D. and everyone else who he angered during AvX. Can't hate them for not wanting to be branded as criminals.

#4 Posted by XsPectre28 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

wouldnt have seperated them to the point that they are frienemies just have seperate groups that deal with different things

#5 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5835 posts) - - Show Bio

wouldnt have seperated them to the point that they are frienemies just have seperate groups that deal with different things

Basically this. I would love to see the Blue and Gold team era again.

#6 Posted by Koays (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

@xspectre28 said:

wouldnt have seperated them to the point that they are frienemies just have seperate groups that deal with different things

Basically this. I would love to see the Blue and Gold team era again.

I can understand this, I just think this story still needs to play out before we can go back to that. Cyclops is probably my favorite X-man but from Jean's death to now has been the most interesting period I think he's ever had. In my opinion he needs another year or so of "Revolutionary X-team" before we bring everyone back under the same banner, just to complete this ride the right way.

#7 Edited by Squares (5757 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't have separated them, period. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't have had Schism happen at all. It was a stupid event that led to even stupider events, and I hate them all.

#8 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5835 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares said:

I wouldn't have separated them, period. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't have had Schism happen at all. It was a stupid event that led to even stupider events, and I hate them all.

I agree with this also.

#9 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4477 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Since Schism people have been complaining about how the X-Men's individual characters weren't being considered when they had to choose between Scott and Logan (Utopia or Jean Grey School). After AvX we got another split, with most of the X-Men joining the JGS and only Emma Frost, Magneto and Magik siding with Scott despite many readers feeling that some characters would've been sympathetic too Scott's current plight (guilt ridden over Xavier's death and still trying to lead a proactive X-team).

So lets say were back in a situation like Uncanny X-Men #4 but post BotA, every current X-man/force/factor/mutant Avenger is there for a picnic and Scott makes the offer to join the revolution. We know someone will bring up AvX and Scott and Logan will make their cases but the question is: Who joins Scott who stays with Logan?

For me, even though the question was never framed this way, it wasn't so much a Cyclops or Wolverine choice as it was a Cyclops or all of the other classic X-men choice.

Even before AvsX, even before Schism, we saw that several of the senior X-men (Xavier, Storm, Beast, Iceman, Nightcrawler, and eventually Wolverine) were starting to question Cyclops' method. That so few of the classic X-men are on Cyclops' side now, to me, speaks more to the changes in his character than to any fundamental split between what was the X-men. Simply, most of the X-men are just doing what the X-men have ever done, it's really only Cyclops who have departed from that.

To my mind, that so many of the X-men stayed with Cyclops for as long as they did was more of a character contrivance, but pretty much all of the characters' choices made sense in context though.

@xspectre28 said:

wouldnt have seperated them to the point that they are frienemies just have seperate groups that deal with different things

Basically this. I would love to see the Blue and Gold team era again.

I'd prefer to see Cyclops' new team remain basically autonomous from the more traditional team, just because it does feel pretty different, and I like that the characters there have a better chance to stand out in their own context, without an extended team of classic members to get buried behind. It genuinely feels new, and I'm digging that.

As for the blue/gold teams, that's essentially the situation between X-men and Amazing X-men:

  • one big team,
  • set at the school,
  • split into two overlapping squads/books (like X-men and Uncanny' in the 90's)

..the main differences being that instead of Storm's role being secondary to the Cyclops and Jean power-coupling that came back and took over her team (and all of them being overshadowed by Xavier), we have a more balanced leadership between Storm and Wolverine.

That and the fact the school actually has students in it, both of which make it seem cooler than the actual blue/gold era (though, yeah, I do still love that era too).

#10 Posted by Koays (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Since Schism people have been complaining about how the X-Men's individual characters weren't being considered when they had to choose between Scott and Logan (Utopia or Jean Grey School). After AvX we got another split, with most of the X-Men joining the JGS and only Emma Frost, Magneto and Magik siding with Scott despite many readers feeling that some characters would've been sympathetic too Scott's current plight (guilt ridden over Xavier's death and still trying to lead a proactive X-team).

So lets say were back in a situation like Uncanny X-Men #4 but post BotA, every current X-man/force/factor/mutant Avenger is there for a picnic and Scott makes the offer to join the revolution. We know someone will bring up AvX and Scott and Logan will make their cases but the question is: Who joins Scott who stays with Logan?

For me, even though the question was never framed this way, it wasn't so much a Cyclops or Wolverine choice as it was a Cyclops or all of the other classic X-men choice.

Even before AvsX, even before Schism, we saw that several of the senior X-men (Xavier, Storm, Beast, Iceman, Nightcrawler, and eventually Wolverine) were starting to question Cyclops' method. That so few of the classic X-men are on Cyclops' side now, to me, speaks more to the changes in his character than to any fundamental split between what was the X-men. Simply, most of the X-men are just doing what the X-men have ever done, it's really only Cyclops who have departed from that.

To my mind, that so many of the X-men stayed with Cyclops for as long as they did was more of a character contrivance, but pretty much all of the characters' choices made sense in context though.

I agree with you that Scott's character has changed and it's changed how the others see him. I was reading Academy X from prior to M-Day and Scott as Headmaster has almost nothing in common with his current self due to the choices he's had to make since. On the other hand I find it jarring that so many of these characters are so willing to go back to the old mansion days and the status quo of waiting for things to happen rather then consider the idea of being a proactive team.

It seems like the only one who has been changed by the M-Day -> Utopia period is Cyclops and that's odd considering how many X-men lived through these events. Mutants just barely survived extinction and now that their making a comeback I'd like characters like say Rachel Grey, Cable, and Bishop to be used in a way that shows that they understand that things can't go back to the way they were because when the next M-Day event comes around they'll be caught off guard again.

#11 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5835 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

@oldnightcrawler said:

@koays said:

Since Schism people have been complaining about how the X-Men's individual characters weren't being considered when they had to choose between Scott and Logan (Utopia or Jean Grey School). After AvX we got another split, with most of the X-Men joining the JGS and only Emma Frost, Magneto and Magik siding with Scott despite many readers feeling that some characters would've been sympathetic too Scott's current plight (guilt ridden over Xavier's death and still trying to lead a proactive X-team).

So lets say were back in a situation like Uncanny X-Men #4 but post BotA, every current X-man/force/factor/mutant Avenger is there for a picnic and Scott makes the offer to join the revolution. We know someone will bring up AvX and Scott and Logan will make their cases but the question is: Who joins Scott who stays with Logan?

For me, even though the question was never framed this way, it wasn't so much a Cyclops or Wolverine choice as it was a Cyclops or all of the other classic X-men choice.

Even before AvsX, even before Schism, we saw that several of the senior X-men (Xavier, Storm, Beast, Iceman, Nightcrawler, and eventually Wolverine) were starting to question Cyclops' method. That so few of the classic X-men are on Cyclops' side now, to me, speaks more to the changes in his character than to any fundamental split between what was the X-men. Simply, most of the X-men are just doing what the X-men have ever done, it's really only Cyclops who have departed from that.

To my mind, that so many of the X-men stayed with Cyclops for as long as they did was more of a character contrivance, but pretty much all of the characters' choices made sense in context though.

I agree with you that Scott's character has changed and it's changed how the others see him. I was reading Academy X from prior to M-Day and Scott as Headmaster has almost nothing in common with his current self due to the choices he's had to make since. On the other hand I find it jarring that so many of these characters are so willing to go back to the old mansion days and the status quo of waiting for things to happen rather then consider the idea of being a proactive team.

I actually agree with this. I find it odd that some of the X-Men members still wanted to stay at the school, even though in the past, the school had been blown up and many mutant children were killed over the past few years. You would think something like this that happened would make the X-Men reconsider about staying in a school setting again or at least take more precautions in protecting the students from those kinds of threats again.

#12 Posted by McKlayn (1076 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Since Schism people have been complaining about how the X-Men's individual characters weren't being considered when they had to choose between Scott and Logan (Utopia or Jean Grey School). After AvX we got another split, with most of the X-Men joining the JGS and only Emma Frost, Magneto and Magik siding with Scott despite many readers feeling that some characters would've been sympathetic too Scott's current plight (guilt ridden over Xavier's death and still trying to lead a proactive X-team).

So lets say were back in a situation like Uncanny X-Men #4 but post BotA, every current X-man/force/factor/mutant Avenger is there for a picnic and Scott makes the offer to join the revolution. We know someone will bring up AvX and Scott and Logan will make their cases but the question is: Who joins Scott who stays with Logan?

For me, even though the question was never framed this way, it wasn't so much a Cyclops or Wolverine choice as it was a Cyclops or all of the other classic X-men choice.

Even before AvsX, even before Schism, we saw that several of the senior X-men (Xavier, Storm, Beast, Iceman, Nightcrawler, and eventually Wolverine) were starting to question Cyclops' method. That so few of the classic X-men are on Cyclops' side now, to me, speaks more to the changes in his character than to any fundamental split between what was the X-men. Simply, most of the X-men are just doing what the X-men have ever done, it's really only Cyclops who have departed from that.

To my mind, that so many of the X-men stayed with Cyclops for as long as they did was more of a character contrivance, but pretty much all of the characters' choices made sense in context though.

@rabbitearsblog said:

@xspectre28 said:

wouldnt have seperated them to the point that they are frienemies just have seperate groups that deal with different things

Basically this. I would love to see the Blue and Gold team era again.

I'd prefer to see Cyclops' new team remain basically autonomous from the more traditional team, just because it does feel pretty different, and I like that the characters there have a better chance to stand out in their own context, without an extended team of classic members to get buried behind. It genuinely feels new, and I'm digging that.

As for the blue/gold teams, that's essentially the situation between X-men and Amazing X-men:

  • one big team,
  • set at the school,
  • split into two overlapping squads/books (like X-men and Uncanny' in the 90's)

..the main differences being that instead of Storm's role being secondary to the Cyclops and Jean power-coupling that came back and took over her team (and all of them being overshadowed by Xavier), we have a more balanced leadership between Storm and Wolverine.

That and the fact the school actually has students in it, both of which make it seem cooler than the actual blue/gold era (though, yeah, I do still love that era too).

EWWW yes and no, Scott has only done what Charles taught him him my opinion. The Entire Schism was over letting children fight, well Scott started fighting when he was a teenager, Iceman even younger and no one had a problem with that, others also had a problem with Cyclops hit squad (that was a change for him ill give you that) but when Wolverine started the school and kept X Force going, it wasnt a problem <.<.

I personally dont think he has changed as much, as the entire Situation has changed. The marvel U changed and i think thats how Professor X would of dealt with it, i think thats what Cyclops was trained to do type thing. But i digress!!

The split in my opinion was pretty good, I totally agree Warpath and Rachel should of went with Cyclops. I also would of liked to seen most of the New Mutants (Cannonball, esp) and Cable's team is basically with Cyclops already so yea.

I also agree that X men, and Amazing X men is trying to pull off the whole Blue / Gold Thing. (i wish they would pull storm from the Amazing team after the first arc) I also wish they would pull Psylock from X men, and Storm from Uncanny X force. SO you have Psylocke leading X force, and Storm leading X men, and I'd actually put Nightcrawler in charge of Amazing :-p

Then you got Cyclops leading Uncanny X men, Kitty leading her All New X men, and Cable with his X force.

So yea :D

#13 Edited by BrokenSpear (189 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler said:

For me, even though the question was never framed this way, it wasn't so much a Cyclops or Wolverine choice as it was a Cyclops or all of the other classic X-men choice.

Even before AvsX, even before Schism, we saw that several of the senior X-men (Xavier, Storm, Beast, Iceman, Nightcrawler, and eventually Wolverine) were starting to question Cyclops' method. That so few of the classic X-men are on Cyclops' side now, to me, speaks more to the changes in his character than to any fundamental split between what was the X-men. Simply, most of the X-men are just doing what the X-men have ever done, it's really only Cyclops who have departed from that.

To my mind, that so many of the X-men stayed with Cyclops for as long as they did was more of a character contrivance, but pretty much all of the characters' choices made sense in context though.

Agreed, i went through a list of all the X-characters and how they developed since m-day, and then thought about who might be sympathetic to Cyclops's views and join his team. The only ones that seemed feasible were Frenzy, Dust and Danger.

There are some like Cable and his team that would have his back but i think they prefer to do their own thing in their own way.

#14 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4477 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:.

I agree with you that Scott's character has changed and it's changed how the others see him. I was reading Academy X from prior to M-Day and Scott as Headmaster has almost nothing in common with his current self due to the choices he's had to make since. On the other hand I find it jarring that so many of these characters are so willing to go back to the old mansion days and the status quo of waiting for things to happen rather then consider the idea of being a proactive team.

really? I don't.

that is, after all, what they signed up for. Cyclops' revolution was never in the brochure. Agreeing to be Xavier's X-men, and agreeing to be Cyclops' X-men are two (slightly) different tings, and the difference is, at least, worth considering.

#15 Posted by Koays (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:.

I agree with you that Scott's character has changed and it's changed how the others see him. I was reading Academy X from prior to M-Day and Scott as Headmaster has almost nothing in common with his current self due to the choices he's had to make since. On the other hand I find it jarring that so many of these characters are so willing to go back to the old mansion days and the status quo of waiting for things to happen rather then consider the idea of being a proactive team.

really? I don't.

that is, after all, what they signed up for. Cyclops' revolution was never in the brochure. Agreeing to be Xavier's X-men, and agreeing to be Cyclops' X-men are two (slightly) different tings, and the difference is, at least, worth considering.

Which is why I don't think some characters would leave. Kitty, Storm, Colossus, Iceman, I see them as characters more likely to stay with the original idea of what an X-man should be. But the way it comes off to me is ALL the X-men are ready and willing to go back to the Mansion and sit on their hands as if the last few years haven't changed the world they live in.

#16 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4477 posts) - - Show Bio

@mcklayn said:

EWWW yes and no, Scott has only done what Charles taught him him my opinion. The Entire Schism was over letting children fight, well Scott started fighting when he was a teenager, Iceman even younger and no one had a problem with that, others also had a problem with Cyclops hit squad (that was a change for him ill give you that) but when Wolverine started the school and kept X Force going, it wasnt a problem <.<.

I personally dont think he has changed as much, as the entire Situation has changed. The marvel U changed and i think thats how Professor X would of dealt with it, i think thats what Cyclops was trained to do type thing.

I personally do think he's changed, but I agree that the context has changed more than he has; and he just happens to be one of the characters that has (/is allowed to) changed with it, thus becoming it's zeitgeist.

#17 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops team- Emma, Magneto(sad that hes leaving tho), magik, kitty, o5, psylocke, Cable's new x-force team.

Wolverine's team- Everyone Else

Doesnt seem fair that cyclops has a handful of x-men while wolverine gets everyone. I guess you can see who marvel like better-its wolverine. Cant see someone as good hearten as rogue or cannonball on cyke's team. Storm never wanted to be on cyke's team after schism anyways. I would like to see nightcrawler join cyke's team but he is closer to wolverine.

#18 Posted by HAWK2916 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

I didnt necessarily agree with the split. Although in retrospect I never thought that the Schism was a terrible concept only the actual story was stupid imo and just out of order. What i mean by that is, the Schism in my opinion should have come after AVX as a result of it.

As it stood, i think it was terribly out of character for most of the Academy X kids to run off with Wolverine. I also find it hard to understand Rachel leaving. Cannonball too.

#19 Posted by poisonfleur (3031 posts) - - Show Bio

During Schism it should have been Storm vs Cyclops. Not Wolverine vs Cyclops

#20 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

During Schism it should have been Storm vs Cyclops. Not Wolverine vs Cyclops

That would be awesome but i guess wolverine reach his limits with scott and has more problems with him. Its like they broke up....lol

I liked it in i think it was uncanny x-men 3 or 4(2013) when cyclops asks carol(captain marvel formally ms. marvel) to join him, that would be cool if she did given her past with the x-men. XD

#21 Posted by HAWK2916 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture: Hmmmm.... I dont recall that, its been a while since I read it though. Along those lines I always wanted Monet on the Uncanny team

#22 Edited by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

@hopesummersforthefuture: Hmmmm.... I dont recall that, its been a while since I read it though. Along those lines I always wanted Monet on the Uncanny team

Monet in x-men. I try not to get to attach to the teams because they seem to be changing teams every year .....lol(look at cable and the x-force and storm's x-force teams they are going to merge in feb)(also magneto leaving and starting his own team)

#23 Posted by HAWK2916 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea i agree. It's hard to establish any continuity that way but marvel has become a revolving door when it comes to the Xmen. Not sure if they even really care anymore honestly.

But in terms of dream scenarios, I love the idea of Monet back with Emma and being on the extinction team. Either as a revolutionary because she is quite disagreeable or handling extinction level threats because she is bad@ss. Frenzy should have the spot in Xmen. But they'd rather leave her in limbo.