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#1 Edited by time (5198 posts) - - Show Bio

When they are about Cyclops, Emma and Wolverine.

As we know the structure of X-Men comics have change over the last 12 years, but have they been better.

Years ago Professor X, Jean Grey & Storm all play central role in X-Men comics, but Marvel change all that, they left Jean rot in the White room, they killed of Charles and they made Storm irrelevant, not giving her any voice in the X-Men comics.

When that happen comics became center around Cyclops, Emma & Wolverine.

Have the comics been better or worse, since Cyclops, Emma and Wolverine have been the most important characters to the X-Men. Or was it better when Charles, Jean and Storm were the most important characters to the X-Men comics.

Please share your views.

#2 Posted by time (5198 posts) - - Show Bio

I think worse, but I'm interested in what you guys think.

#3 Edited by Wolverine08 (45714 posts) - - Show Bio

Before the 2000s, the X comics pretty much gave everyone equal attention, and it was pretty balanced. The X-Men started going to sh%t when the stories became, "The d%ck measuring contest between Cyclops and Wolverine!".

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#4 Posted by time (5198 posts) - - Show Bio

Before the 2000s, the X comics pretty much gave everyone equal attention, and it was pretty balanced. The X-Men started going to sh%t when the stories became, "The d%ck measuring contest between Cyclops and Wolverine!".

I have to agree, back then it was very much balance, which why I loved the early 1990's. Every X-Men character had time in the spotlight back then.. When comics became center around Cyclops, Emma and Wolverine, that all change. Change for the worse.

#5 Posted by MarcosVergara14 (477 posts) - - Show Bio

They are really worst rigth now

#6 Edited by time (5198 posts) - - Show Bio

They are really worst rigth now

I don't mind them now, the last 6 years have been pretty poor.

#7 Posted by xrs10 (57 posts) - - Show Bio

In terms of actual stories we are getting right now it is seemingly getting better, but as for characters I think after the millions of newer mutants that seemed to have been added it seems to me that they then couldnt be bothered focusing on the big characters like storm and rogue any more. All I know is I love Woods current run on Adjective-less X-men

#8 Posted by Chapmar (192 posts) - - Show Bio

Bendis is making them great again if you ask me!

#9 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

If Bendis and Aaron weren't here, and we had, like, either: Yost, De Fillipis + Weir, Simonson, Kim, Ellis or you know, writers that were actually good, handling the apparent masthead titles, then they might have been better. As it is, no, things are not. Spurrier and Wood are the only saving graces.

Me thinks the X-Line is due for another creative team reboot.

#10 Posted by TDK_1997 (15119 posts) - - Show Bio

The X-Men comics were better but your statement that Charles,Jean and Storm were the most important characters is untrue.They never were the most important.Nobody was being forgotten and nobody had more limelight than the other but for me when the story was considering Jean Grey the most I never liked it.I can't stand Jean and I would be really happy if good writers came to the X-Men books and wrote stories in which central places have Scott,Emma and Logan.

#11 Posted by knighthood (1745 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: Been better? Yeah! But being oldschool I'd prefer the 80's X-Men to the 00's X-Men you are referring to. I prefer what's happening now in comparison to most of the X-books in the past 10 years.

#12 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

The X-Men comics were better but your statement that Charles,Jean and Storm were the most important characters is untrue.They never were the most important.Nobody was being forgotten and nobody had more limelight than the other but for me when the story was considering Jean Grey the most I never liked it.I can't stand Jean and I would be really happy if good writers came to the X-Men books and wrote stories in which central places have Scott,Emma and Logan.

Lol no thanks. We had this, and it just so happened to be the worst era in X-Comics.

#13 Posted by Wolverine08 (45714 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane:

I think Scott, Emma, and Logan can have the stories revolve around them, and still be good.. You just need a good writer to handle it.

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#14 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane:

I think Scott, Emma, and Logan can have the stories revolve around them, and still be good.. You just need a good writer to handle it.

That's true, but i think Scott, Emma and Logan especially, have had quite enough as it is. They do not constitute the X-Men. Big stories should revolve around other characters for a change.

#15 Posted by Silver_Raven (351 posts) - - Show Bio

If Bendis and Aaron weren't here, and we had, like, either: Yost, De Fillipis + Weir, Simonson, Kim, Ellis or you know, writers that were actually good, handling the apparent masthead titles, then they might have been better. As it is, no, things are not. Spurrier and Wood are the only saving graces.

Me thinks the X-Line is due for another creative team reboot.

Yes to all of this. I would also like to add Kieron Gillan to the list, because he really impressed me on Uncanny X-men with what little control he had on that book. I also feel Wood and Spurrier could be better, i think in time their voice will get stronger and the stories they write will have a bigger affect on the X-landscape. Well that is my wish, really.

#16 Edited by Jake Fury (19264 posts) - - Show Bio

The books are selling well so I doubt Bendis is going anywhere.

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#17 Edited by time (5198 posts) - - Show Bio

@jake_fury: Now there doing well, but what the last years 6 years, when comics were about Cyclops, Emma and Logan.

#18 Posted by TDK_1997 (15119 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

The X-Men comics were better but your statement that Charles,Jean and Storm were the most important characters is untrue.They never were the most important.Nobody was being forgotten and nobody had more limelight than the other but for me when the story was considering Jean Grey the most I never liked it.I can't stand Jean and I would be really happy if good writers came to the X-Men books and wrote stories in which central places have Scott,Emma and Logan.

Lol no thanks. We had this, and it just so happened to be the worst era in X-Comics.

Well it hasn't been written properly,that's why.If we had better writers it might be better but we can't know until we see it.I want a Cyclops,Emma,Professor X,Wolverine and maybe Rogue centered story.

#19 Posted by Jake Fury (19264 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

@jake_fury: Now there doing well, but what the last years 6 years, when comics were about Cyclops, Emma and Logan.

Morrison >> Fraction.

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#20 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the X-Men stories were worse when they focus solely on Wolverine, Emma Frost and Cyclops because almost none of the other characters got any focus. It seems they're trying to fix that now, but who knows how long this will last.

#21 Posted by time (5198 posts) - - Show Bio

@jake_fury: Morrison is over-rated if u ask me. He wrote one character well.Emma Frost, that's it.

#22 Edited by Jake Fury (19264 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: I wholeheartedly disagree.

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#23 Posted by time (5198 posts) - - Show Bio

@jake_fury: What characters do you think he wrote well.

#24 Posted by Jake Fury (19264 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: I think the entire core group he used was well written. He also introduced new characters like Fantomex, Sublime and Cassandra Nova. I'm a huge fan of his run and feel like it ranks among the best X-runs of all time.

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#25 Posted by time (5198 posts) - - Show Bio

@jake_fury: Well I think its very over-rated, but I have to get back to you on that. I'm going to bed now, Night.

#26 Edited by oldnightcrawler (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

Years ago Professor X, Jean Grey & Storm all play central role in X-Men comics, but Marvel change all that, they left Jean rot in the White room, they killed of Charles and they made Storm irrelevant, not giving her any voice in the X-Men comics.

When that happen comics became center around Cyclops, Emma & Wolverine.

Have the comics been better or worse, since Cyclops, Emma and Wolverine have been the most important characters to the X-Men. Or was it better when Charles, Jean and Storm were the most important characters to the X-Men comics.

Years ago, Cyclops and Xavier were semi-retired from the X-men, Jean Grey was dead, and Storm and Kitty Pryde were the main characters. That's when X-men comics were best.

Years later, Xavier was retired from the X-men again, Jean Grey was dead again, and Cyclops, Emma, and Kitty Pryde were the main characters. That's when X-men comics were second best.

As much as I liked the 90's X-men, and the first half of Morrison's New X-Men, bringing Jean back from the dead always seemed ultimately pointless to me, as she was never one of the characters I found especially interesting anyway. She was alright in her second life: cool powers, weird costume, likable enough, but never one of the most interesting (compared to most of the other X-men).

Bringing her back, and most of what they did with her after, just all seemed really contrived and like it had more to do with marketing a recognizable character (in so far as she was an original X-man, and originally the star of maybe the most well received X-men story, until they ret-conned her out of it to bring her back (?)) than it had to do with what made sense or would actually make the story better. All of which actually gave me more reason not to like her, really.

When the stories were centered around Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine (as in, the SF/Utopia X-men), they weren't the best, but there's a lot of reasons for that: primarily, they just weren't great X-men stories. I actually think it had very little to do with focusing on those characters, and nothing at all to do with not focusing on others.

Especially Jean Grey. Seriously, how would she have made that story better?

#27 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

Years ago Professor X, Jean Grey & Storm all play central role in X-Men comics, but Marvel change all that, they left Jean rot in the White room, they killed of Charles and they made Storm irrelevant, not giving her any voice in the X-Men comics.

When that happen comics became center around Cyclops, Emma & Wolverine.

Have the comics been better or worse, since Cyclops, Emma and Wolverine have been the most important characters to the X-Men. Or was it better when Charles, Jean and Storm were the most important characters to the X-Men comics.

Years ago, Cyclops and Xavier were semi-retired from the X-men, Jean Grey was dead, and Storm and Kitty Pryde were the main characters. That's when X-men comics were best.

Years later, Xavier was retired from the X-men again, Jean Grey was dead again, and Cyclops, Emma, and Kitty Pryde were the main characters. That's when X-men comics were second best.

As much as I liked the 90's X-men, and the first half of Morrison's New X-Men, bringing Jean back from the dead always seemed ultimately pointless to me, as she was never one of the characters I found especially interesting anyway. She was alright in her second life: cool powers, weird costume, likable enough, but never one of the most interesting (compared to most of the other X-men).

Bringing her back, and most of what they did with her after, just all seemed really contrived and like it had more to do with marketing a recognizable character (in so far as she was an original X-man, and originally the star of maybe the most well received X-men story, until they ret-conned her out of it to bring her back (?)) than it had to do with what made sense or would actually make the story better. All of which actually gave me more reason not to like her, really.

When the stories were centered around Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine (as in, the SF/Utopia X-men, they weren't the best, but there's a lot of reasons for that: primarily, they just weren't great X-men stories. I actually think it had very little to do with focusing on those characters, and nothing at all to do with not focusing on others.

Especially Jean Grey. Seriously, how would she have made that story better?

I agree with this. To me, it doesn't matter what character was being focused on, what mattered was how the stories were being written and I actually did find the story lines with Emma, Cyclops and Wolverine being written a bit terribly for the past few years, hence why I thought that the stories with Emma, Cyclops and Wolverine made the comics worse at the time, since the writing wasn't stellar at the time.

#28 Edited by mechem_93 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not about characters, it's about writers. Any character can work well with a good story to back him/she up. The thing is, when ALL the stories centers around the same 3 character it becomes tiresome and repetitive and writers just run out of ideas. The X-men suffered greatly from this this past 5 years or so.

#30 Posted by mechem_93 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

Years ago Professor X, Jean Grey & Storm all play central role in X-Men comics, but Marvel change all that, they left Jean rot in the White room, they killed of Charles and they made Storm irrelevant, not giving her any voice in the X-Men comics.

When that happen comics became center around Cyclops, Emma & Wolverine.

Have the comics been better or worse, since Cyclops, Emma and Wolverine have been the most important characters to the X-Men. Or was it better when Charles, Jean and Storm were the most important characters to the X-Men comics.

Years ago, Cyclops and Xavier were semi-retired from the X-men, Jean Grey was dead, and Storm and Kitty Pryde were the main characters. That's when X-men comics were best.

Years later, Xavier was retired from the X-men again, Jean Grey was dead again, and Cyclops, Emma, and Kitty Pryde were the main characters. That's when X-men comics were second best.

As much as I liked the 90's X-men, and the first half of Morrison's New X-Men, bringing Jean back from the dead always seemed ultimately pointless to me, as she was never one of the characters I found especially interesting anyway. She was alright in her second life: cool powers, weird costume, likable enough, but never one of the most interesting (compared to most of the other X-men).

Bringing her back, and most of what they did with her after, just all seemed really contrived and like it had more to do with marketing a recognizable character (in so far as she was an original X-man, and originally the star of maybe the most well received X-men story, until they ret-conned her out of it to bring her back (?)) than it had to do with what made sense or would actually make the story better. All of which actually gave me more reason not to like her, really.

When the stories were centered around Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine (as in, the SF/Utopia X-men, they weren't the best, but there's a lot of reasons for that: primarily, they just weren't great X-men stories. I actually think it had very little to do with focusing on those characters, and nothing at all to do with not focusing on others.

Especially Jean Grey. Seriously, how would she have made that story better?

Jean was alive and played important roles during Claremont and Byrne's run and Morrison's run, which many people consider the best of the x-men. She was also very active in the 90s...anyway, my point is that there's no character intrinsically awful or intrinsically awesome. They can all work well with the right story.

#31 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not about characters, it's about writers. Any character can work well with a good story to back him/she up. The thing is, when ALL the stories centers around the same 3 character it becomes tiresome and repetitive and writers just run out of ideas. The X-men suffered greatly from this this past 5 years or so.

I definitely agree with all this. I think one of the biggest issues with the X-Men comics in recent years was that they keep focusing on the same characters when they have millions of other characters that they can write a story about.

#32 Posted by oldnightcrawler (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean was alive and played important roles during Claremont and Byrne's run and Morrison's run, which many people consider the best of the x-men. She was also very active in the 90s...anyway, my point is that there's no character intrinsically awful or intrinsically awesome. They can all work well with the right story.

this was actually more my point.

I just accidentally went on a Jean Grey rant in the middle of getting to that point. You're right though, that before she died in the Dark Phoenix Saga, she was an interesting and integral part of the 70's. I'm just not a big fan of the 70's style stories, they were just still too superhero-y for me. If you like 70's superhero stuff, you can't do better than the original Proteus story line or the Dark Phoenix Saga. It's just not my thing.

And, like I mentioned, I do like her in Morrison's New X-Men (Or, up until Planet X, anyway). Morrison's version of the character is actually my favorite, and, in a weird way, the one that reminds me the most of the 70's version.

#33 Posted by HAWK2916 (2096 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Xmen comics have been better. This is an interesting time but it is hit or miss and not really as profound as it could be. As long as writers like Bendis and Aaron are allowed to sully the title with their control Im sorry to say that I don't think it will get better. I thought Morrison was sometimes ridiculous but with Bendis and Aaron I pray for Morrison to return.

There is too much Wolverine. Im not saying he should go away but there is to much of him and there's too many writers making him hypocritical. IMO whoever is writing him should be the only one doing so. Im not opposed to working stories around Cyclops, Wolverine and Storm. But I think an interesting new direction would be to let Kitty, Rogue, Rachel Grey and Cannonball take over. With the older characters moving into an advisory or cabal type role. IN all honesty I wouldn't be opposed to sending the old guard back into the past or into the future and let a new day dawn in the current Marvel world

#34 Posted by Chapmar (192 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to say I really do not understand how people do not like Bendis. He is at the top of his game right now and he is probably the best writer Marvel have. He is doing literally everything to bring the X-men back to greatness, look at battle of the Atom and so forth.

People like Yost are not at the right level, Ellis already wrote astonishing and didn't exactly do great work with it. Fraction sucked entirely and Brubaker didn't do much better. The closest the X-men have felt to greatness in a long time is at the moment. All the attention is on the character development and clearly Bendis has a plan that isn't just to back the mutants into a corner repeatedly. As for Woods solo X-men, it's really only mediocre.

#35 Edited by time (5198 posts) - - Show Bio

@chapmar said:

I have to say I really do not understand how people do not like Bendis. He is at the top of his game right now and he is probably the best writer Marvel have. He is doing literally everything to bring the X-men back to greatness, look at battle of the Atom and so forth.

People like Yost are not at the right level, Ellis already wrote astonishing and didn't exactly do great work with it. Fraction sucked entirely and Brubaker didn't do much better. The closest the X-men have felt to greatness in a long time is at the moment. All the attention is on the character development and clearly Bendis has a plan that isn't just to back the mutants into a corner repeatedly. As for Woods solo X-men, it's really only mediocre.

Bendis work is good. I liked Kyle and Yost work on the X-Force, I hope they come back to the X-Men titles. Matt Fraction was the worst writer and Ellis and Gillian were boring writers, there series was boring.

#36 Posted by adamTRMM (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

The end of status quo is like the best thing happened to X-Men since like forever. As for me, it should have happened even earlier. X-Men's monopoly over "the only good guys" protecting mutantkind (which they ignominiously failed) had to come to its logical end, and Cyclops have become what Magneto should always have been. What I really disliked is lack of interaction or just poor explanations for some ridiculous behavior of too many characters, but I don't think this is a problem of only just the last years.

I don't really like the writers today, if Bendis sometimes writes really good issues (but mostly not), for Aaron I have no sympathy.. I disliked Schism, I dislike WatX, hell I even disliked his Ghost Rider. Wolverine as a headmaster?! Hellfire Club of children?! JGS is a freak show. He is awful at everything, and he is about to start a new title.. :/

#37 Edited by White Mage (18751 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

The X-Men comics were better but your statement that Charles,Jean and Storm were the most important characters is untrue.They never were the most important.Nobody was being forgotten and nobody had more limelight than the other but for me when the story was considering Jean Grey the most I never liked it.I can't stand Jean and I would be really happy if good writers came to the X-Men books and wrote stories in which central places have Scott,Emma and Logan.

Lol no thanks. We had this, and it just so happened to be the worst era in X-Comics.

THANK YOU!!

That trio is disgusting, and they honestly tend to plague the X-universe. It's downright awful that Marvel milks their storylines so frequently.

#38 Posted by TDK_1997 (15119 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Posted by darthphoenix (985 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still blinded by the fact that i'm excited with what is happening now. After a long run of no jean in the life of the x-men, sudden twists and turns are really unexpected. I can say, everything is going really well after AVX. but before that, x-men was not even interesting.

#40 Posted by White Mage (18751 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

@white_mage: Why don't you like that trio?

I like them when they are apart of the ensemble......GENUINELY. But stuff like Schism just makes me violently angry. It also pisses me off that Wolverine is portrayed in such a holy manner, while Scott is demonized...............The only thing that really rivals my dislike for that, is Uncanny Avengers

#41 Posted by HAWK2916 (2096 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont get all the Bendis love. Most of his stuff is long drawn out and sometimes ridiculous. It all time travel and alternate realities and he completely ignores many characters. This is not to say that all of his concepts are crap but although i read both uncanny and all new, out of all those issues that have come out there are only 4 maybe 5 that i consider to be actually good. Wood is the one on top ofbisgame right now. I consider Kyle and Yost, David, Remender even Morrison, Carey and Fraction are/were better. Jason Aaron is just stupid

#42 Posted by Nerd Of A Hero (897 posts) - - Show Bio

"Oreo" =/

#43 Posted by TDK_1997 (15119 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

@white_mage: Why don't you like that trio?

I like them when they are apart of the ensemble......GENUINELY. But stuff like Schism just makes me violently angry. It also pisses me off that Wolverine is portrayed in such a holy manner, while Scott is demonized...............The only thing that really rivals my dislike for that, is Uncanny Avengers

I agree that Schism was just awful and brought to us the current sucky era of the X-books but I really want to see a good writer like Yost or Wood handle that trio and maybe Uncanny X-Men or something like that.But I think that both Wolverine and Scott should be portrayed in a holy manner because they are the top 2 most famous mutant characters.

#44 Posted by HAWK2916 (2096 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd love to see Kyle and Yost or Remender on Uncanny

#45 Edited by Xwraith (21634 posts) - - Show Bio

The X-Men books have never been worse than they are right now... and I can't see them getting better anytime soon.

#46 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

@chapmar said:

I have to say I really do not understand how people do not like Bendis. He is at the top of his game right now and he is probably the best writer Marvel have. He is doing literally everything to bring the X-men back to greatness, look at battle of the Atom and so forth.

People like Yost are not at the right level, Ellis already wrote astonishing and didn't exactly do great work with it. Fraction sucked entirely and Brubaker didn't do much better. The closest the X-men have felt to greatness in a long time is at the moment. All the attention is on the character development and clearly Bendis has a plan that isn't just to back the mutants into a corner repeatedly. As for Woods solo X-men, it's really only mediocre.

????

#47 Posted by roxasnelson (8 posts) - - Show Bio

been reading alot of X-men lately, Idk about you man but I'm digging it, so for me I'm cool with it, can't wait for Battle of the Atom tho

#48 Posted by Squalleon (4999 posts) - - Show Bio

@chapmar said:

I have to say I really do not understand how people do not like Bendis. He is at the top of his game right now and he is probably the best writer Marvel have. He is doing literally everything to bring the X-men back to greatness, look at battle of the Atom and so forth.

He is a hit or miss.
Some of his works are excellent (USM), some other are just mediocre (New Avengers) and all his events are bad (AoU,Secret Invasion)

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#49 Edited by Chapmar (192 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: Ha I love secret invasion, house of M and siege!

#50 Posted by coolbeans (247 posts) - - Show Bio

I love me some X-men. 4 of the 7 series I subscribe to are X-men comics. Honestly Uncanny hasn't really been that great for me which is kind of disappointing because I love Cyclops and Magneto. I have really enjoyed X-men Storm has been great and finally stepped into the role she has been lacking for the past few years. It's great seeing Rachel, Rogue, and Psylocke work together as well. I have loved Cable and X-force as well. Cable is a stud, watching the back and forth between Forge and Dr. Nemesis is awesome to see, and the relationship with Colossus and Domino has actually turned in to something interesting to watch. X-Factor has always been a strong title I'll be sad to see it go.