#1 Edited by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

I havent read the latest astonishing arc where iceman i guess goes crazy but i saw that once astonishing ends it will get replaced with amazing xmen and iceman is not on the team. i doubt they will kill him off so where does he go? i was thinking he joins cyclops because that team really needs a powerhouse and i think iceman is one of the most powerful marvel characters

#2 Posted by darthphoenix (793 posts) - - Show Bio

No. he'd have to break up with kitty to do that

#3 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

I havent read the latest astonishing arc where iceman i guess goes crazy but i saw that once astonishing ends it will get replaced with amazing xmen and iceman is not on the team. i doubt they will kill him off so where does he go? i was thinking he joins cyclops because that team really needs a powerhouse and i think iceman is one of the most powerful marvel characters

you should read it (Astonishing X-Men #62-65), it's one of the better X-men arcs in recent memory. And probably one of the best Iceman arcs ever.

I'm pretty sure (from the one image I've seen) that he actually will be staying with the school team in Amazing X-men, at least in the beginning. Honestly, the changes that he's gone through now aren't the kind of thing that would lead to him joining Cyclops' team, in fact, I get the feeling that he'll feel the need to stay in a familiar context, surrounded by people he actually does care about and admire, more than ever now for the sake of his own sanity.

He's finally seen the full extent of his god-like powers and accepted that he does have a very dark streak under the years of repression, none of which seems to have made him any happier. As Warbird pointed out, it's not his great power that makes him a great man, but his level of restraint in the face of that power. With all that's happened in the latest arc, he seems to be in a very dark and existential place, and he almost took the whole world down with him just getting there.

It's unclear whether he and Kitty are still together at the end of the arc, but the inclusion of Firestar (another of his old flames, nyuk-nyuk) makes me think that there might be something in the works there.

It's an interesting place to bring his character to, especially after so long in the background, and raises some interesting issues about the idea of identity. Iceman has now accepted that he is basically a god, and actually feels like he likes himself more when he embraces his dark side, but he also realizes that no one he cares about wants him to go down that road. So the question becomes, can he find a balance between the two that will make him genuinely happy?

#4 Posted by Dman1366 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: I loved this arc too, but unfortunately, I do not think that it is going to have serious character changes in the universe; look at WatX and ANX, Iceman and Kitty are better than ever and there was no hint of his demise. I think Marvel just let Marjorie do her own story, without it effecting canon.

#5 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@dman1366 said:

@oldnightcrawler: I loved this arc too, but unfortunately, I do not think that it is going to have serious character changes in the universe; look at WatX and ANX, Iceman and Kitty are better than ever and there was no hint of his demise. I think Marvel just let Marjorie do her own story, without it effecting canon.

you could be right, but I like that it makes just as much sense to think of it like Iceman has decided to ignore his dark side by reverting to type. That any of his behavior could be seen as a mask to distract him from his more egotistical urges lends a nice layer of subtext to the character, which opens the door for new explorations of the character without having to change the role he would be in in most stories. It's kind of brilliant.

#6 Edited by Rickbarry (1797 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sure Jason Aaron would throw a bit of a fit if someone took Iceman away from his books. I mean the character is the perfect for a book that is completely lame and has no actual storyline. (Someone had to bash him eventually. Just getting it out of the way.)

#7 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

Um, Iceman is on the team. Though he shouldn't be.

#8 Posted by Rickbarry (1797 posts) - - Show Bio

Um, Iceman is on the team. Though he shouldn't be.

Hey there, stranger. Long time no see.

#9 Edited by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@dman1366 @oldnightcrawler

I enjoyed this arc although it has to be the darkest/most serious arc featuring the character I have ever read. All in all, it really doesn't reflect too well on Bobby; it pretty much states that his facade is there to mask his immaturity/egotistical & very selfish urges. The admission that he liked embracing his darkness really drives this negative image home.

My main criticism would be that it seemed to me that everyone else was pretty much just like "man up" at the end. Not really dealing with the problem at hand, is it? As Bobby states, it could easily happen again.

Still, I'd rather believe that these traits were greatly amplified by the death seed and that his comments at the end of the issue were out of guilt/side effects of the seed itself.

Then again, maybe this all just makes him more appealing and realistic as a character?

I wish Liu had to focus a bit more on his positive traits in the resolution of the arc. As it stands, though, it can easily be brushed over if necessary but also be used for further, hopefully more positive, development in future.

Also, no conclusive answer on the Opal child front?

#10 Posted by Scoey (10 posts) - - Show Bio

I really doubt it. Plus I don't think Amazing X-Men is a continuation of astonishing.

#11 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, what DarkIceman did is pretty much on par with what the Phoenix Five did.

#12 Edited by HAWK2916 (1824 posts) - - Show Bio

It's hard to tell what will happen. Liu left a lot unresolved which is one of the many reasons Im glad she will be gone. As someone mentioned the story may just end up being ignored completely. I don't know if he and Kitty are together, don't know if he wants to stay with his team at the school or what. This kind of thing is why I was thinking that it would be great for Marvel to try making uncanny xforce a book similar to DC's suicide squad. It would be characters looking for redemption and going into situations that have a very low chance of survival but going all out in trying to reach redemption. A team with Iceman, Psylocke, Bishop, Colossus and maybe a few more throwing themselves at impossible situations could be kind of interesting

#13 Posted by Rickbarry (1797 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no 'if' in regards to this story being ignored. It's going to be ignored completely. Other books had the chance to show a different type of Bobby after X-termination, but instead they chose to have him as even over the top goofier. Just compare it to after Fear Itself. Colossus had a universal change in every title he appeared. You could tell just by his over all look and manner of speech that the guy was different. We haven't seen that with Bobby at all. Bendis and Aaron don't really care what Liu did with the character. Which is a shame as this was probably the only interesting Iceman story I've read.

Give me a conflicted Bobby instead of the 14 year old in a 30 year old's body anytime.

#14 Edited by HAWK2916 (1824 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea I think with what Liu did, there's potential there for an interesting turn for Bobby and also Kitty. Bobby could leave to find himself, he could become kind of Jean Grey/Phoenix-esque, he could be an anti-hero in the same line as Hulk or Magneto. With kitty will the relationship last, in one issue she was talking with someone and seemed to express a bit of regret or at least a longing for her old flame Colossus.

There is quite a bit that could be done here, though Im kinda pissed at Liu for being so anit-climactic and leaving so many loose ends

#15 Posted by BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh he'll either join say or say I don't want to join. He'll probably just join.

#16 Posted by Rickbarry (1797 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

Yea I think with what Liu did, there's potential there for an interesting turn for Bobby and also Kitty. Bobby could leave to find himself, he could become kind of Jean Grey/Phoenix-esque, he could be an anti-hero in the same line as Hulk or Magneto. With kitty will the relationship last, in one issue she was talking with someone and seemed to express a bit of regret or at least a longing for her old flame Colossus.

There is quite a bit that could be done here, though Im kinda pissed at Liu for being so anit-climactic and leaving so many loose ends

She should feel bad. She did him way wrong in Fear Itself.

#17 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

Um, Iceman is on the team. Though he shouldn't be.

okay, I'll bite. Why shouldn't Iceman be on the X-men?

#18 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

I doubt that Iceman will join cyclops team, however this past arc in AXM just goes to show the hypocrisy of Wolverine, Iceman is possessed by the Death Seed, Freezes damn near the entire planet and then wolverine and everyone else just looks at him tells him to stop being so damn emotional, however Cyclops and Emma are still being treated like villains by shield and others in the marvel u. it would be interesting to have iceman on cyclops' team since he now has a first hand experience as to what cyclops was dealing with when he had the Phoenix Force. And plus Cyclops could teach him how to deal with it.

#19 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

I doubt that Iceman will join cyclops team, however this past arc in AXM just goes to show the hypocrisy of Wolverine, Iceman is possessed by the Death Seed, Freezes damn near the entire planet and then wolverine and everyone else just looks at him tells him to stop being so damn emotional, however Cyclops and Emma are still being treated like villains by shield and others in the marvel u. it would be interesting to have iceman on cyclops' team since he now has a first hand experience as to what cyclops was dealing with when he had the Phoenix Force. And plus Cyclops could teach him how to deal with it.

I do think that Iceman would probably have more sympathy for Cyclops and crew now, but I don't know that that would make him agree with what Cyclops is doing. Or be able to forgive him for Xavier (Xavier makes it more personal). I can see how it could be interesting to see him interacting with Cyclops and especially Emma, but I personally don't see him joining their side.

I don't know that I'd say Wolverine's being entirely hypocritical, though. Iceman didn't choose his power, or to have the Death-seed placed in him, while Cyclops actively sought out the power of the Phoenix. Also, Iceman didn't kill Xavier.

And, probably most importantly to Wolverine, Cyclops has yet to accept responsibility for his transgressions, while Iceman readily acknowledges that what he did was wrong and that he probably should be punished if he could be.

#20 Posted by acer51 (2237 posts) - - Show Bio

Never crossed my mind, I don't see much motive.

#21 Edited by phisigmatau (515 posts) - - Show Bio

im sick of all this antagonizing of the good guy marvel crap. the big difference between ahero and a villian is their strong moral code. Writers suck nowadays, can't create new villians so they just jack up good characters who have been fighting evil all their lives.

I'm glad marvel writers don't right for DC or wonder woman, superman, shazam and batman would have taken universe hostage by now and the jla would have to fight them to get it back.

#22 Posted by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404: thats exactly what i was thinking. i just think hed be better on cyclops team bc he wil get more spotlight and will have a more interesting role

#23 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

Um, Iceman is on the team. Though he shouldn't be.

okay, I'll bite. Why shouldn't Iceman be on the X-men?

Referring to the Nightcrawler search and rescue party i.e the Amazing X-Men btw--like Firestar and Northstar (wtf?), he just doesn't make any sense. Aaron admittedly didn't try to variate the cast, but Rachel and Kitty are in more deserving spots as opposed to supporting cast.

#24 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

Referring to the Nightcrawler search and rescue party i.e the Amazing X-Men btw--like Firestar and Northstar (wtf?), he just doesn't make any sense. Aaron admittedly didn't try to variate the cast, but Rachel and Kitty are in more deserving spots as opposed to supporting cast.

I agree about Kitty and Rachel, for sure, as far as it being a Nightcrawler centered story. But I wonder if both Iceman and Northstar are in the book just because Astonishing' is ending.. that's the sense I get. I kind of always forget that Iceman's one of the more popular X-men. And I think Firestar's being there has to do with Iceman (hence the Amazing X-men, like Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends).

I could see it making sense, in a weird way.. like everyone knows they have to give Iceman a reason to keep it together. And if it is a Nightcrwaler centered story to start, Nightcrawler certainly makes a great case for a hero who refuses to dwell on his dark side, who doesn't see evil as more manly than good, and who actually has fun being a hero -these are all qualities that Iceman does possess himself, but in light of recent events may need reminding of. I dunno.

Iceman's not a big favorite of mine compared to anyone from the early 80's team, but I've been digging him a bunch lately. Basically, the cast for this book ranges from three of my favorite characters ever (especially together) to a few less obvious choices that at least make me curious, so it looks like it could be well rounded enough to feel both classic and somewhat distinct. I'm gonna give it a shot.

#25 Posted by Maddpanda531 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hope this arc just gets ignored for the future. I don't care how well-written it is, we really don't need any more heroes-gone-villains.

#26 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hope this arc just gets ignored for the future. I don't care how well-written it is, we really don't need any more heroes-gone-villains.

I totally agree.

Like I said, I really did like the story. But seeing those four issues, as much as I enjoyed them, don't make me want to see more. Really they just made me think about the stuff I do like about Iceman; four issues gets the point across fine, now I want to see how he comes back from it.

#27 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404 said:

I doubt that Iceman will join cyclops team, however this past arc in AXM just goes to show the hypocrisy of Wolverine, Iceman is possessed by the Death Seed, Freezes damn near the entire planet and then wolverine and everyone else just looks at him tells him to stop being so damn emotional, however Cyclops and Emma are still being treated like villains by shield and others in the marvel u. it would be interesting to have iceman on cyclops' team since he now has a first hand experience as to what cyclops was dealing with when he had the Phoenix Force. And plus Cyclops could teach him how to deal with it.

I do think that Iceman would probably have more sympathy for Cyclops and crew now, but I don't know that that would make him agree with what Cyclops is doing. Or be able to forgive him for Xavier (Xavier makes it more personal). I can see how it could be interesting to see him interacting with Cyclops and especially Emma, but I personally don't see him joining their side.

I don't know that I'd say Wolverine's being entirely hypocritical, though. Iceman didn't choose his power, or to have the Death-seed placed in him, while Cyclops actively sought out the power of the Phoenix. Also, Iceman didn't kill Xavier.

And, probably most importantly to Wolverine, Cyclops has yet to accept responsibility for his transgressions, while Iceman readily acknowledges that what he did was wrong and that he probably should be punished if he could be.

he might not be able to forgive Cyclops for Xavier however that would make for such an interesting dynamic and with his background as a teacher at the Jean Grey school he could bring another aspect of training for the new mutants.

Cyclops didnt choose the power either, he got it by accident when Iron Man made the Phoenix split, Just as Iceman got the death seed when Dark Beast placed it in him while jumping through the portal. Cyclops only sought the power of the other P5 members during the battle with the Avengers and other X-Men. had he been left alone to continue his work making the world a better place then none of that bad stuff would have happened.

Also Cyclops did assume responsibly for his actions in regards to killing Xavier, he even told Wolverine that he was sorry that Xavier died during the AVX Consequences. Cyclops just would not let anyone tell him that his belief in what he was doing was wrong, and ultimately he was right. Iceman is just dealing with the fact that he actually LIKED having his dark side run wild.

#28 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404: Cyclops may not have been looking to wield the power himself, but he was trying to use it to his own ends, and it's not as if he was willing to give it up once he had it.

Sure, he did try to make the world a better place with it once he had it, but he still put the whole world at risk to get it in the first place. That's a stupid risk. I mean, worst case scenario, the end of all life on Earth -versus- his objective: giving some people mutant powers (whether they want them or not). It was selfish, it was not for the greater good, it was not his right to make that decision in the first place.

And, yeah, I guess I could see how Iceman might be a little more sympathetic to Cyclops' position, now that he himself almost killed his own father through the selfish abuse of his powers. Like you say, not that he excuses what Cyclops has done, but that he'd be more likely to understand it now.

y'know, maybe it could really be the best thing for both of them if they were united on the same side again..

I dunno, I could go either way on it.

#29 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

Can someone please post the iceman/thor fight in astonishing x-men (full fight)

#30 Posted by Baberaham_Lincoln (937 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen: Wasn't really a fight since Iceman just teleported Iceman away to deal with the X-men... but they seemed pretty even with one another. Iceman made Ice dragon constructs... looked dope. I'll try find this 'fight', but i'd rather it be called a scuffle more than anything really.

#31 Posted by Squares (6849 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait...why would he?

#32 Edited by jumpman72001 (37 posts) - - Show Bio

man some kid lost his feet cause iceman.....that sucks