Do you think the X-men are better off at Fox or at Marvel?

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SymbioticSpider-Man

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Poll Do you think the X-men are better off at Fox or at Marvel? (65 votes)

Fox 54%
Marvel 46%

Do you think Marvel could make better X-men movies, or that Fox will always be better at making X-men films?

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Black_Claw

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#1  Edited By Black_Claw

I think the X-Men are going to be fine at Fox now that the studio knows what the hell they're doing with the franchise. Spider-Man needs to be freed from Sony's clutches though.

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Lallypops

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With everything that's happening between them, I just.............don't know. I'm sure Marvel can make good X-Men movies with them, but DOFP was fantastic.

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Rabbitearsblog

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I honestly don't know myself because while I want X-Men to be back at Marvel, I know that because Marvel already got too any superheroes in their universe, that putting in the X-Men might cause even more confusion in the MCU.

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kidchipotle

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Difficult call. The X-Men is such a massive franchise that it would make the MCU seem more cluttered. Them being stand alone at Fox is good in the sense it solely focuses on Humans vs Mutants without the confusion of the grey such as Spider-Man and Captain America. However, I'm dying to know what MCU X-Men would be like. And I really do think Marvel would treat them A LOT better. They would just be more cluttered in the MCU and we'd have a lot less X-Men movies.

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Koays

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It's a hard call to make.

While Marvel should own the rights as it's their creation and they've built everything about it that we'd like to see on the screen.....that doesn't mean the franchise is better off in their hands.

Right now Marvel seems to be intent on building a greater movie universe with it's franchises and while thats cool, it's not something the X-Men need or should be apart of. The X-Men are big enough (in terms of concept and actual property size) to have their own universe without over complicating connections or committing to a big crossover movie.

Their's nothing to really be gained on the X-Men side from switching teams.....and really as a fan of X-Men comics i'm not really all that interested in their connection to the Marvel Universe when their's so much stuff to do in their own corner.

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HAWK2916

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@koays: I agree with this.

I think it also might work for the comics by the way, the being seperate and all.

On the flipside if Marvel was doing the Xmen movies it would most likely help the books out. At least marvel wouldn't be going out of their way to not promote the Xmen. Maybe the books would get some decent direction and some of the attention that Avengers and now even Guardians of the Galaxy (ugh! Really?) is getting

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Koays

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@hawk2916 said:

On the flipside if Marvel was doing the Xmen movies it would most likely help the books out. At least marvel wouldn't be going out of their way to not promote the Xmen. Maybe the books would get some decent direction and some of the attention that Avengers and now even Guardians of the Galaxy (ugh! Really?) is getting

Yea i was thinking about that too. I mean it's almost laughable but the reality is that Marvel won't give X-Men the time of day when it comes to oversight as long as their looking out for their movie franchises. I mean there's no way they'd let two or three Avengers or Guardians books fall through the cracks the way a few X-titles have

. It's just kind of sad that in order for someone to prioritize X-Men comics quality we'd need to see Marvel in full control of the property. Though i'd still vote against the X-Men being better off with them because if their that petty now then imagine what they'd do if a Marvel Studio's X-Men movie under performed.

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butterflykyss

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#8  Edited By butterflykyss

Fox has done NOTHING to demonstrate they know how to handle the franchise. Not only is their whole universe alll over the place, the liberties they take with the stories and characterizations are god awful. They have managed to take a comic thst was known for high profile and powerful women who took charge and reduce it to the charles, eric, and raven love triangle and logan wankfest show. Its a slap in a face to all of what claremont was able to build.

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AwesomePerson

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The MCU is too big now... While I would absolutely LOVE it... X-Men won't have a place... The MCU will probably need to be rebooted...

Although being back at Marvel means that they get more attention in the comics...but alas, Compromises have to be made...

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rogueshadow

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#10  Edited By rogueshadow  Moderator
@awesomeperson said:

The MCU is too big now... While I would absolutely LOVE it... X-Men won't have a place... The MCU will probably need to be rebooted...

Although being back at Marvel means that they get more attention in the comics...but alas, Compromises have to be made...

I disagree, it could work with Mutants in the MCU, but you would have to identify them as being an infinitesimal portion of the population, say that Professor X finds about 95% of them from around the globe via telepathy and schools them. It would explain away why we haven't seen them, because Xavier is shielding them.

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AwesomePerson

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@rogueshadow: But in the X-Men movies, humans know mutants exist....

The X-Men would need a reboot of Marvel were to go with your idea

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rogueshadow

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#12 rogueshadow  Moderator

@rogueshadow: But in the X-Men movies, humans know mutants exist....

The X-Men would need a reboot of Marvel were to go with your idea

Obviously it couldn't be the X-Men of Fox. You said the MCU would have to be rebooted, but it wouldn't.

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AwesomePerson

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@rogueshadow: To be honest... I don't think the X-Men should be rebooted... It is not a bad movie series... Wolverine needs less screen time and the others do and it should follow the comics more closely...

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adamTRMM

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With all the negativity for Fox, I'm not sure Marvel would handle it any better.

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rogueshadow

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#15 rogueshadow  Moderator

@rogueshadow: To be honest... I don't think the X-Men should be rebooted... It is not a bad movie series... Wolverine needs less screen time and the others do and it should follow the comics more closely...

I'm not saying I want it be particularly. All things being equal I'd rather it go to Marvel, they simply do their properties better on average, they haven't made a bad film as of yet. The only issue would be that if they did get Spider-man, FF and X-Men back, we probably wouldn't see a lot of cool films that we could see. We never would have had Iron Man, GOTG, Ant-Man, Inhumans etc if Marvel had all their properties.

I do think X-Men needs a reboot soon though.

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Outside_85

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For the sake of the movies alone? No, they seem to be doing pretty fine as they are at Fox.

In the broader perspective, they should return to Marvel because the current situation is causeing Marvel/Disney to push the Inhumans forwards to replace the X-Men, first through the movies and slowly but surely in the comics as well.

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Rabbitearsblog

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@arturocalakayvee: I agree with all this. Having the X-Men in the MCU would have made things even more confusing, especially whenever they have to explain about how come the X-Men are mistreated but not other superheroes who have powers and are not mutants.

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adamTRMM

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Well it's not like they're bothering to explain this in comics or something.

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cattlebattle

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Nope. Them being at Fox allows them to have more mature, adult oriented films, and that is how I have always identified the X-Men franchise.....with the tone being a bit more mature. Not that it's a bad thing necessarily but Marvel tends to make their movies more family and kid friendly.

Fox has done NOTHING to demonstrate they know how to handle the franchise. Not only is their whole universe alll over the place, the liberties they take with the stories and characterizations are god awful. They have managed to take a comic thst was known for high profile and powerful women who took charge and reduce it to the charles, eric, and raven love triangle and logan wankfest show. Its a slap in a face to all of what claremont was able to build.

I disagree. First of all, a lot of the liberties that have been taken with the films have actually been incorporated into the comics over the years--because they are good ideas the writers never thought of.

As for powerful women, there still is that regardless of Logan being the main focus. In most of the X-Men films Mystique is pretty unstoppable physically and her quiet demeanor just makes her interesting, Storm saves the day essentially in the second movie and is one of the more major characters throughout the first couple of films, they have Callisto and Storm actively beating the crap out of each other in the third movie, Lady Deathstrike is basically the "end fight" for Wolverine in the second film, I mean, yeah, it isn't as prominent as the comics but the females aren't just standing around doing nothing in these movies....compare it to the Marvel Universe where aside from Black Widow, women are just there to be the main protagonist's girlfriend.

Also, Chris Claremont actually loves the movies and has consulted on the scripts for some of them, I believe is helping with the forthcoming movie as well. He understands how Hollywood is and knows you aren't going to get the comics translated verbatim on the screen.

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AwesomePerson

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@rogueshadow: If the X-Men to to Marvel... We wouldn't get that many X-Films because Marvel would focus on other properties...

Marvel would be like DC... Just churn out X-Men or Spiderman films...

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rogueshadow

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#21 rogueshadow  Moderator

@rogueshadow: If the X-Men to to Marvel... We wouldn't get that many X-Films because Marvel would focus on other properties...

Marvel would be like DC... Just churn out X-Men or Spiderman films...

That's what I just said...

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AwesomePerson

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Tyger

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#23  Edited By Tyger

I think X-Men are fine where they are...

...but they should be able to work nicely with Marvel as to avoid the current situation with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch and so we can get a Captain America / Wolverine (and maybe Magneto) WWII movie.

This would also open up Super Skrull and Paibok being tied to the 'Skrulls' from MCU.

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Zearing

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Actually, I think that the X-Men are the only characters that don't need to be brought into the MCU. I wouldn't complain if they were brought over, but I would want Spidey and the Fantastic Four introduced first.

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butterflykyss

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@cattlebattle:

1.) Taking the movie ideas and incorporating it into the comics isn't an indication that the movies are great. It's an indication that writers are lazy and don't want to take the time to research canon to be consistent with what has already been established. Furthermore, it's also indicates Marvel is trying to capitalize off what the movies have done.

2.) Mystique is a villain and always has been a villain in the Xmen comics (up until that axis crap). The fact that you list her first as opposed to rogue, storm, jean is a sign how far off the mark these movies are. However, since you mentioned Raven she still isn't shown as strong as you may think. She depends on Eric and/or Charles - on men - to help her find her way because she isn't strong enough to do it on her own.

3.) Just because the women are not just standing around doing nothing - that's debatable - doesn't mean they are utilized to their fullest potential and in a manner that respectful to source material. The Xmen are known or were known for the three main prominent female - Jean, Rogue and Storm. ALL THREE WERE LOWER LEVEL SHADOWS OF THEIR COMICBOOK COUNTERPARTS. Rogue was reduced to an emo love sick character who depended on Logan and Bobby for most of her character development. Jean was reduced to being Cyke and Logan's trophy and ultimately relying on Logan to save her from herself. Storm was reduced to being shaken up by toad, had no presence or gravitas or strength she is known for in the comics. These women were known for being stronger than their male counterparts; however, you couldn't tell if you saw these movies. No the shakers in the movie franchise were Logsn, Eric, charles, and Raven (two of which aren't xmen). Additionally, this is the same franchise that took the main protagonist in Dofp (Kitty) and turned it into logan.

4.) MU is working to build their women up. BW is pretty bad arse in the movies, Wanda is about to make her bug debut, and Captain Marvel is getting her own movie. They try to keep their characters pretty near to how they are portrayed in the comics which is what I appreciate.

5.) Chris Claremont is entitled to his opinion on the movies. Doesn't make anything that I said less true.

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leezju92

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After Last Stand I would have said Marvel but Fox knocked it out of the park with DOFP.

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kfabz-23

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First class & Day of future past is better than most if not all of MCU so yes.

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tigerkaya

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#28  Edited By tigerkaya

FOX, keep those losers in that company the less of them I see in the MCU the better. The only characters I want back from FOX is the FF the X-men can stay in their permanent hell in FOX.

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Viperians

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I rather Marvel since they know how to deal with the franchise. Fox is killing the FF.

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viin

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Marvel... Im really sick of Fox's X-men as well as most of the cast. Cause really how many mediocre movies do we really need about Hugh Jackman as Wolverine?

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HAWK2916

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Some interesting thoughts made here. Im really more inclined to believe that as far as the movies go its not necessarily which company Marvel or Fox but moreso the director. The Fox movies could be better with better directors, writers etc. If Xmen was with Marvel the promotion would be better and it would help overall with comics and everything instead of the railroading we see going on now. And really what's not to say that Marvel couldn't just have the Xmen set in a separate universe where people with abilities are hated, while letting the MCU stay as is to prevent the overcrowding and the convolution of trying to explain why mutants are hated while other super powered beings are celebrated. I think they are keeping Star Wars separate so why not Xmen. Either I go back to my original point, its more about the writers and directors. But as far as the comics side is concerned it would most likely be better if Marvel had the Xmen

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tigerkaya

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@hawk2916: That would just confuse audience further if the X-men are part of the MCU but in a separate Earth. It would just make Marvel too much like DC with Earth Primes and Earth one nonsense. Which is why the X-men are better off with FOX Marvel wouldn't have to bother justifying superpower heroes to mutants living on the same earth. The most well known X-men stores are the ones not crossing over with Marvel example God loves man kills I rest my case.

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FearTheLiving

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#33  Edited By FearTheLiving

At this point Fox, doesn't make much sense for mutants to start showing up in the MCU unless they turn them all into Inhumans, or if they ever reboot the MCU. Now the Fantastic Four on the other hand get them over to Marvel Studios asap.

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adamTRMM

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Fantastic Four is redundant for MCU. What purpose will their introduction serve? Too many characters already.

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lorex

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As things stand right now the progression at FOX is encouraging. They seem to have a handle on what they have and a plan to move forward. That being said with Marvel not having control of the valuable movie rights they have perhaps not intentionally but they have put interests on the the properties they control ahead of their licensed material. There is not Fantastic Four comic right now, now that its announced that Deadpool is getting a movie his solo title is canceled. Marvel just cannot get away with that regarding X-Men and Spider-Man cause they sell too many comics but there is a noticeable trend.

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cattlebattle

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#36  Edited By cattlebattle

@butterflykyssI initially wasn't going to respond, because I feel like this is going to be one of those arguments where no matter what point I bring up, you will just dismiss it as the whole crux of your argument seems to be "but...but, it's not just like the comics, so it sucks", completely undermining the ways Hollywood works. For instance the females not having larger parts is due to the fact that franchises with women in lead roles don't do as well as ones with men statistically, or the fact that Hugh Jackman is a big star that is synonymous with the X-Men name and them not having him feature prominently in an X-film is a huge gamble as the movies are directed at a general audience in addition to being aimed at fans, or the fact that there is no way to successfully cram 50 years of some of the most convoluted stories and characterizations into a 2 hour film.

@butterflykyss said:

@cattlebattle:

1.) Taking the movie ideas and incorporating it into the comics isn't an indication that the movies are great. It's an indication that writers are lazy and don't want to take the time to research canon to be consistent with what has already been established. Furthermore, it's also indicates Marvel is trying to capitalize off what the movies have done.

This is BS. Nearly every writer who has wrote anything in the history of ever has cribbed something from preexisting material. If you are going by this logic, because the concept and plot of the "Days of Future Past" was taken from episodes of the "Outer Limits" TV show Claremont and Byrne watched as children, that must make said writers, "lazy" writers.
The comics or otherwise taking ideas from other iterations is inevitable and always is usually used for the best. Look at the Batman franchise, the current "Arkham" video games are beloved by fans and they draw extensively from both the Animated series and the Nolan films. It's not being lazy, its just creating stability and consistency in the universe by acknowledging the good ideas someone else had. Claremont acknowledged and basically worked with the whole established concept previously developed by the likes of Stan Lee, Roy Thomas and Jack Kirby when he started writing the book, no??
@butterflykyss said:

2.) Mystique is a villain and always has been a villain in the Xmen comics (up until that axis crap). The fact that you list her first as opposed to rogue, storm, jean is a sign how far off the mark these movies are. However, since you mentioned Raven she still isn't shown as strong as you may think. She depends on Eric and/or Charles - on men - to help her find her way because she isn't strong enough to do it on her own.

Mystique is a villain in the films.....unless you are talking about in First Class where she was just friends with Charles and didn't quite have an affiliation.....so then I guess you would be ignoring Mystique's life in the comics where she just lived with Irene Adler and had some semblance of a normal life....and didn't have a affiliation. She also, in the most recent film, was very politically oriented, which was a huge part of her character in the 80s and seems like present day writers have forgotten about.

Also, she didn't depend on any one. Xavier tried to convince her not to commit a crime that would have devastating results. You bringing this up also kind of completely makes your point look hypocritical anyways since you are so attuned to everything playing out like the comics, as characters like Rogue, Jean Grey and Storm have all needed help at some point, whether it be with their powers or making decisions that were best for the team, from Professor X (a man) or other male characters.

@butterflykyss said:

3.) Just because the women are not just standing around doing nothing - that's debatable - doesn't mean they are utilized to their fullest potential and in a manner that respectful to source material. The Xmen are known or were known for the three main prominent female - Jean, Rogue and Storm. ALL THREE WERE LOWER LEVEL SHADOWS OF THEIR COMICBOOK COUNTERPARTS. Rogue was reduced to an emo love sick character who depended on Logan and Bobby for most of her character development. Jean was reduced to being Cyke and Logan's trophy and ultimately relying on Logan to save her from herself. Storm was reduced to being shaken up by toad, had no presence or gravitas or strength she is known for in the comics. These women were known for being stronger than their male counterparts; however, you couldn't tell if you saw these movies. No the shakers in the movie franchise were Logsn, Eric, charles, and Raven (two of which aren't xmen). Additionally, this is the same franchise that took the main protagonist in Dofp (Kitty) and turned it into logan.

As I mentioned, not every character is unfortunately going to get their due, but at least the women do have their own story arcs and actually get to do things in the movie that further the plot. In X2 alone there is more strong women characters doing important things then almost every other comic book film ever made combined. Storm talks Nightcrawler into having enough faith to teleport blindly, then she uses her power to disconnect Strykers hold of the Professor, then, Jean saves the X-Mens life by sacrificing herself (something she did in the comic under different circumstances) and Lady Deathstrike was essentially the main physical threat to Wolverine. Meanwhile, over in a lot of other super hero films, women don't really do anything.
@butterflykyss said:

. They try to keep their characters pretty near to how they are portrayed in the comics which is what I appreciate.

Ha. If you go and read something like Walt Simonsons seminal "Thor" run, then watch the Thor films, it's like watching a parody of the material. What I am saying is Marvel isn't perfect. I just find it weird you would use them as an example when lambasting the X-Men films for not playing up the roles of their women, when the Marvel films just have most of their women as the main hero's girlfriend. Doesn't matter what they plan to do, people can plan to do all kinds of things, it matters what they have done, and the X-Men films have had major roles for females in pretty much every film except the "Origins" movie.
@butterflykyss said:

5.) Chris Claremont is entitled to his opinion on the movies. Doesn't make anything that I said less true.

You mentioned Claremont originally. You implied it was a slap in the face of the world he built, being that the man has admitted his delight with the films, and seeing that it is mostly based on the work that he created, I would say his opinion counts more so than others and he doesn't seem to find any offense in it.

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Spidey_Jackson

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#37  Edited By Spidey_Jackson

Fox. Easily.

Beata

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HAWK2916

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#38  Edited By HAWK2916

@tigerkaya: It wouldn't confuse the audience anymore than the Xmen being over at Fox. The separate universe thing would be a matter of not even mentioning or acknowledging the Avengers so not really a big deal. But the main point of what I said was more about the writing and directing as opposed to who has the rights. It was not about how to incorporate the Xmen and Avengers and Inhumans and GOTG. Marvel is just as capable of making poopy movies as Fox is. In fact what would be best is if Marvel and Fox came to a compromise and had a working relationship in promotion and everything else lined up which would be profitable for everybody. i mean dont these companies learn anything from La Cosa Nostra... war is bad for business. I wish Marvel and Fox could strike a deal so the Xmen stop getting railroaded. That was the main point of what ive been saying

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tigerkaya

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#39  Edited By tigerkaya
@hawk2916 said:

@tigerkaya: It wouldn't confuse the audience anymore than the Xmen being over at Fox. The separate universe thing would be a matter of not even mentioning or acknowledging the Avengers so not really a big deal. But the main point of what I said was more about the writing and directing as opposed to who has the rights. It was not about how to incorporate the Xmen and Avengers and Inhumans and GOTG. Marvel is just as capable of making poopy movies as Fox is. In fact what would be best is if Marvel and Fox came to a compromise and had a working relationship in promotion and everything else lined up which would be profitable for everybody. i mean dont these companies learn anything from La Cosa Nostra... war is bad for business. I wish Marvel and Fox could strike a deal so the Xmen stop getting railroaded. That was the main point of what ive been saying

I never said Marvel Studios was perfect stop making assumptions. I agree the war between the two is pointless but I'd rather see the FF in Marvel's hands than in the hands of those who failed twice. As to the X-Men movies I see no value in their inclusion with the MCU much less crossing over hell they suck even when they try to crossover with other Marvel comics. But as it stands they seem to have an okay direction if like Xavier and Magneto as center stage while everyone else is window dressing.

@adamtrmm said:

Fantastic Four is redundant for MCU. What purpose will their introduction serve? Too many characters already.

They'll be better respected in MCU than Fox course I would expect ignorance of other Marvel titles from an X-Fan.

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butterflykyss

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#40  Edited By butterflykyss

I initially wasn't going to respond, because I feel like this is going to be one of those arguments where no matter what point I bring up, you will just dismiss it as the whole crux of your argument seems to be "but...but, it's not just like the comics, so it sucks", completely undermining the ways Hollywood works. For instance the females not having larger parts is due to the fact that franchises with women in lead roles don't do as well as ones with men statistically, or the fact that Hugh Jackman is a big star that is synonymous with the X-Men name and them not having him feature prominently in an X-film is a huge gamble as the movies are directed at a general audience in addition to being aimed at fans, or the fact that there is no way to successfully cram 50 years of some of the most convoluted stories and characterizations into a 2 hour film.

I understand the dynamics of why Hollywood does what it does. It's the same reason in the "God's of Egypt" movie that is yet to be released the director has casted and all-WHITE cast instead of of using Black persons or even persons of mixed decent. Does it make it right? No. Additionally, Hugh Jackman was not an household name when the first Xmen movie was released. He didn't rise to stardom until after that movie. I would like to add that Hunger Games, which is a female lead, has done phenomenally well at the box office. So all of that is a cop-out.

This is BS. Nearly every writer who has wrote anything in the history of ever has cribbed something from preexisting material. If you are going by this logic, because the concept and plot of the "Days of Future Past" was taken from episodes of the "Outer Limits" TV show Claremont and Byrne watched as children, that must make said writers, "lazy" writers.
The comics or otherwise taking ideas from other iterations is inevitable and always is usually used for the best. Look at the Batman franchise, the current "Arkham" video games are beloved by fans and they draw extensively from both the Animated series and the Nolan films. It's not being lazy, its just creating stability and consistency in the universe by acknowledging the good ideas someone else had. Claremont acknowledged and basically worked with the whole established concept previously developed by the likes of Stan Lee, Roy Thomas and Jack Kirby when he started writing the book, no??

It's one thing to be inspired by a piece of work and create something new from that inspiration (what Chris Claremont did). It's a completely different to take something that exists and then redo that same piece of work but not as well (what the Xmovie writers have done). When you have the first class movie have none except one of the original xmen on the team that is a problem for me as a fan who grew up reading xmen. When you have Wolverine - the loner who can at times be unreliable - being the voice of reason and ultimately what Cyclops was for Charles that is a problem for me a fan. When you have all the strong female characters playing second fiddle to their male counterparts because women can't sale (which that is BS might I add), that is a problem for me. If you don't wish to accept the writing is lazy, at the very least you should acknowledge the writing is sloppy and all over the place. One of the reasons why they are doing this stupid reboot.

Mystique is a villain in the films.....unless you are talking about in First Class where she was just friends with Charles and didn't quite have an affiliation.....so then I guess you would be ignoring Mystique's life in the comics where she just lived with Irene Adler and had some semblance of a normal life....and didn't have a affiliation. She also, in the most recent film, was very politically oriented, which was a huge part of her character in the 80s and seems like present day writers have forgotten about.

Also, she didn't depend on any one. Xavier tried to convince her not to commit a crime that would have devastating results. You bringing this up also kind of completely makes your point look hypocritical anyways since you are so attuned to everything playing out like the comics, as characters like Rogue, Jean Grey and Storm have all needed help at some point, whether it be with their powers or making decisions that were best for the team, from Professor X (a man) or other male characters.

The first character that you mentioned when I referred to strong X-men characters were Raven from the film. That is awful that she is the first character you listed because it shouldn't be. 1.) She is a villian and not an Xmen, and 2.) she hasn't shown as nearly the strength both in character and power as Storm, Jean, and Rogue. As far as Raven's characterization in the comic she was NEVER an Xman (in the comics). For a fan of the comics, again, for this to be the first one you listed as strong (because yes in the movie she is the strongest one shown in terms of any depth or character) in a story that is supposed to be about Xmen where you would expect the female Xmen characters would get character development is just awful. Fox is simply trying to capitalize on Jennifer Lawrence's star power.

Maybe I didn't see the same movies you saw. However, for DOFP, from what I remember Charles was trying to save Raven to show her another way. She ended up deciding to follow Eric because she loved him (which is why the Apocalypse movie is going to focus heavily on their romance). Its not hypocritical to point this out. Obviously as a team all these characters need help at some point, but in terms of their powers (at least in the case of Storm) she was in full control of her powers when she joined the Xmen. She didn't need help from Charles or any other man for that matter in helping her control it.

As I mentioned, not every character is unfortunately going to get their due, but at least the women do have their own story arcs and actually get to do things in the movie that further the plot. In X2 alone there is more strong women characters doing important things then almost every other comic book film ever made combined. Storm talks Nightcrawler into having enough faith to teleport blindly, then she uses her power to disconnect Strykers hold of the Professor, then, Jean saves the X-Mens life by sacrificing herself (something she did in the comic under different circumstances) and Lady Deathstrike was essentially the main physical threat to Wolverine. Meanwhile, over in a lot of other super hero films, women don't really do anything.

What women had story arcs that were not sub-plots outside of rogue and jean? In the first movie, Rogue was the center of the main plot; however, she was emo the whole time and needed wolverine to make her realize she could stay with the xmen. In the second movie, none of the women were central to the main plot. It was Logan-centered and revolved around him figuring out who he was and what his origins were. These moments you mentioned were cute for the women, but when you look at the franchise of the Xmen movies as a whole they are Wolverine centered; there is no denying this. They should have simply titled the movies Wolverine and the Xmen. The only X-movie that tried to go beyond Wolverine was X-3 where Jean was focal to the plot, has been trashed by all critics and retconned to the DOFP movie.

Ha. If you go and read something like Walt Simonsons seminal "Thor" run, then watch the Thor films, it's like watching a parody of the material. What I am saying is Marvel isn't perfect. I just find it weird you would use them as an example when lambasting the X-Men films for not playing up the roles of their women, when the Marvel films just have most of their women as the main hero's girlfriend. Doesn't matter what they plan to do, people can plan to do all kinds of things, it matters what they have done, and the X-Men films have had major roles for females in pretty much every film except the "Origins" movie.

Of course marvel isn't perfect. But the one thing marvel does right is give all their characters in the group themed movies time to shine and character development. Avengers was and is the best comic-book to movie film to be released and it was so because it got a lot of things right for many viewers. They took time to give characters like Thor, Ironman, and Hulk their own stories so that their histories could be developed. We saw what Natasha does and is good for in the first part of Avengers, and it demonstrated how resourceful she can be when pitted against a threat as big as Hulk! None of the Xmen movies gave the female supporting cast that type of showing imo. For instance, Singer didn't even want to show Storm flying because it was not "believable" enough initially. There is NO REASON Storm should have ever been shown cowering to told or even been shown getting beat by him as badly as he did. I'm not saying making the movies all about the women, but at least when you show them, show them off doing what they have been shown as fully capable of doing in the comics. Singer, the writers didn't do this and that is my main problem with the X-films.

You mentioned Claremont originally. You implied it was a slap in the face of the world he built, being that the man has admitted his delight with the films, and seeing that it is mostly based on the work that he created, I would say his opinion counts more so than others and he doesn't seem to find any offense in it.

I know I mentioned him and I stand by original statement. These movies are a slap in a face to the work as I know it as a fan who has followed the stories since I was a young boy. He is very much so entitled to his opinion. However, Claremont is known for his Claremozons (strong female characters, ie. Rogue, Jean, Psylocke, Storm) and is often made fun of for this reason. None of these women as shown on the film come close to how they are portrayed in the comics. Again, if you can't feature the women because the movie won't sale (which again is BS), when you do show them at least have them close to how strong and powerful they have been depicted in the comics. Don't show them as mousy, whiny, emo, uncertain women who are afraid of their own shadows.

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Sky_Fire

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I rather Marvel than Fox. Avengers movie are way better than the first 3 X movies.

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adamTRMM

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#42  Edited By adamTRMM

@tigerkaya:

Don't desecrate my name by including it into your silly posts ever again. Your mere existence is already a painful realization and further disappointment in humanity, but a direct interaction? This is more than my gentle nature can handle.

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HAWK2916

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I never said Marvel Studios was perfect stop making assumptions. I agree the war between the two is pointless but I'd rather see the FF in Marvel's hands than in the hands of those who failed twice. As to the X-Men movies I see no value in their inclusion with the MCU much less crossing over hell they suck even when they try to crossover with other Marvel comics. But as it stands they seem to have an okay direction if like Xavier and Magneto as center stage while everyone else is window dressing.

Calm down little buddy!!! Who's making an assumption? I'm under no illusions as to what you said. And by the way I never said a word about the Fantastic Four, especially since if I recall correctly the original question was about the Xmen. I also never mentioned any crossing over either. Those were your words.

I wonder why people who hate the Xmen come on the X-boards.

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tigerkaya

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@adamtrmm said:

@tigerkaya:

Don't desecrate my name by including it into your silly posts ever again. Your mere existence is already a painful realization and further disappointment in humanity, but a direct interaction? This is more than my gentle nature can handle.

Looks who's talking your already acknowledging me in your post. In truth I find you to be an unholy abomination while at the same time a mistake against nature. But you gentle? Get out of here you hypocrite.

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adamTRMM

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#45  Edited By adamTRMM

And you did it again. A funny thing that you are, I don't even want to tag you anymore, the stain of using your name in my posts is unbearable. I asked you to not ever tag me again, what is so hard to understand, silly one? Acknowledging you was a necessary evil, and look what happened, my name was desecrated once again. I feel dirty now.

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RustyRoy

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Fox

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UHypocrite

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#47  Edited By UHypocrite

I will say neither. I now hate both.

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HexThis

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I loved X-men, X2, X-men: First Class, Days of Future Past...they're good movies, not just good superhero movies. It's like how Batman Begins, Dark Knight, and Dark Knight Rises were actually made as though the concept was fresh and edgy and it made the movies fresh and edgy by osmosis. Plus, they're period pieces now which I think is even cooler than what Marvel Studios will do (though they have different genres too in Thor, which I like).

I mean, I adore Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man but it's when he's well-written that I like him. So, duh, Joss Whedon is gonna write him well and the first script, before it was known the Iron Man would be a success, was good too. But does Marvel care about that sort of thing? Not really. As soon as he does well, so long as the next movie is BIGGER and earns more money then they don't care if it's terrible or just mediocre (Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3 sorta). Thor 2 vs Thor 1? No contest, the first was the best but does Marvel Studios care about the drop-off? No. X-men 2 was better than 1, First Class was just as good as X2, so was Days of Future Past.

When Fox tries to imitate Marvel Studios (like with Wolverine), they suck. Because that's such a traditional route- dashing singular hero, damsel, excessive CGI, blah, blah, blah- totally disposable and average on the whole (with a couple exceptions). If they have anti-heroes, anti-heroines, politics, history, and all that - KABLAM, it's a good movie. And they're willing to do that. Marvel isn't. If they had an X-men movie, the central theme would be "Wow, Wolverine and Cyclops are so cool!", it would be worse than it already is in terms of Wolverine-saturation.

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