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#1 Posted by ruler (296 posts) - - Show Bio

Havok Polaris

Husk Archangel

Storm Forge

Sabertooth Mystique

Magneto Rogue

Husk Toad

Shadowcat Collosus

Shadowcat Pete Wisdom

Cyclops Madelyne Pyror

Havok Madelyne Pyror

Havok Annie Ghazikian

Gambit Rogue

Charles Xavier Lilandra

Jean Grey Cyclops

Cyclops Emma Frost

Mystique Iceman

Iceman Polaris

Pyslocke ARchangel

Husk Archangel

#2 Posted by Lightblaze (94 posts) - - Show Bio

Ewwww I'll say Husk and Toad. What the hell did she saw in him? Toad have always been so disgusting.

#3 Edited by Koays (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

Mystique and Iceman....it bothers me because it was the most interesting thing to happen to Iceman for a while that didn't involve Havok/Polaris and yet it was horribly put together

Online
#4 Posted by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

@ruler said:

Havok Polaris

Husk Archangel

Storm Forge

Sabertooth Mystique

Magneto Rogue

Husk Toad

Shadowcat Collosus

Shadowcat Pete Wisdom

Cyclops Madelyne Pyror

Havok Madelyne Pyror

Havok Annie Ghazikian

Gambit Rogue

Charles Xavier Lilandra

Jean Grey Cyclops

Cyclops Emma Frost

Mystique Iceman

Iceman Polaris

Pyslocke ARchangel

Husk Archangel

i'm not sure where you stand on these couples... ???

Of the list my top three best couples:

Cyclops and Emma

Havok and Polaris

Magneto and Rogue

Top 3 Worst for me:

Gambit and Rogue (Boring. The Forbidden Fruit thing has always been the most boring of contrivances for couples... Rogue represents this to the Nth degree. She's also kinda dull since she gained control. Too staid and restrained for the Rajin' Cajun.)

Iceman and Polaris (she belongs with Havok... end of story)

Jean and Cyclops (She brought out all of the insecurities in him and made him a weaker person. He held her back from being all that she could be.)

#5 Posted by Selina_Sublime (140 posts) - - Show Bio

BEST:

Rictor/Shatterstar

Chamber/Husk

Magneto/Rogue

WORST:
Havok/Polaris

Mystique/Iceman

Northstar/Kyle

Angel/Husk

OKAY FOR A TIME, BUT READY TO MOVE ON (that's life; nostalgia only makes it hurt worse people):

Colossus/Kitty Pryde

Cyclops/Jean Grey

Cyclops/Emma Frost

Storm/Forge

Gambit/Rogue

#6 Posted by ruler (296 posts) - - Show Bio

I forgot on couple Iceman Shadowcat

#7 Posted by JROCK72 (412 posts) - - Show Bio

BEST:

1) Cyclops and Jean Grey

2) Northstar and Kylw

3) Havok and Polaris

WORST:

1) Magneto and Rogue

2) Archangel and Husk

3) Kitty Pryde and Pete Wisdom

#8 Posted by Avenger85 (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock72 said:

BEST:

1) Cyclops and Jean Grey

2) Northstar and Kylw

3) Havok and Polaris

WORST:

1) Magneto and Rogue

2) Archangel and Husk

3) Kitty Pryde and Pete Wisdom

I agree with this.

#9 Posted by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock72 said:

BEST:

1) Cyclops and Jean Grey

2) Northstar and Kylw

3) Havok and Polaris

WORST:

1) Magneto and Rogue

2) Archangel and Husk

3) Kitty Pryde and Pete Wisdom

Definitely agree about the awfulness of Kitty and Pete Wisdom. He's like the worst sleaze...

#10 Posted by numi (190 posts) - - Show Bio

Best:

Forge / Nemisis What? They're not a couple? I bro-ship them, they're awesome together!

Worst:

Wolverine / anyone... (I may be biased against the runt.)

#11 Posted by martinceld (370 posts) - - Show Bio

best: cyclops/ jean

rogue/gambit

havok/polaris

worst: husk/toad

#12 Edited by Ryagan (635 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm looking at this thread and thinking, "What? Some of these couples actually exist?"

#13 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3453 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually like the idea of Lorna and Bobby ending up together. They started out as a possible couple when she first appeared, after all. While I'm certainly used to Alex and Lorna being together, it seemed to me that he always took her for granted.

Friskoteque...lolz

#14 Posted by darthphoenix (660 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Edited by HAWK2916 (1597 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto and Rogue. Archangel and Husk. Kitty Pryde and Pete Wisdom. They were terrible. I also dislike Shatterstar and Rictor- I wanted Rictor with Rahne. I always felt like Karma should have gotten focus on a relationship. Psylocka-Fantomex was bad too simply because I really hate Fantomex

#16 Posted by McKlayn (1069 posts) - - Show Bio

i totally disliked Husk and Toad, HOWEVER i didn't HATE husk and Archangel i did however prefer Husk and Chamber

Fantomex and Psylocke, Rogue and Mags all go on my Oh hell No list too lol

#17 Posted by fisheypixels (78 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto Rogue

......isn't Magneto in his 60's or 70's and Rogue in her 20's or 30's? I didn't even know this was a thing.

I'd have to say the best I've seen is Hank McCoy and Abigail Brand. That's pretty much been the best couple I've read in comics ever. And I feel like Scott and Jean need to be towards the top. And we also can't forget Logan and Jean.

Though Scott and Emma are great, when that first came up, I couldn't help but feel like it was a little forced. And there were a few times where it felt pretty forced. Otherwise, when it was done right, it was good.

#18 Posted by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto Rogue

......isn't Magneto in his 60's or 70's and Rogue in her 20's or 30's? I didn't even know this was a thing.

I'd have to say the best I've seen is Hank McCoy and Abigail Brand. That's pretty much been the best couple I've read in comics ever. And I feel like Scott and Jean need to be towards the top. And we also can't forget Logan and Jean.

Though Scott and Emma are great, when that first came up, I couldn't help but feel like it was a little forced. And there were a few times where it felt pretty forced. Otherwise, when it was done right, it was good.

magneto, phsyically is in somewhere around his 50s... though he should be in his 80s by now. Since he was an adult during the war. He has twice been de-aged. Not paying much attention tho i must say... the Magneto/Rogue thing has been around for decades... almost as long as, if not longer than, Rogue/Gambit.

I detest Beast at the moment, so i find his relationship with Brand odd to say the least. She's ok. He's a douche on a level so far beyond Cyclops and Wolverboring combined i'd love his to be retconned out of existence... for the REAL WORLD not just the comic one.

Logan and Jean were never really a couple tho... flirtation and occasiona kisses in the heat of the moment don't make a couple.

Scott and Jean... i can't deny their couple-hood, but i will say i always hated them together. She made Scott a pussy, and He made Jean a wimp.

Scott and Emma... can't get enough of them. She makes him a Man, A Leader and a Warrior. He makes her more human, and enabled us to even better see the teacher within her. As bad-ass as Emma is... she is the greatest teacher any X-Man in training could hope to have. And yes, i include Xavier in this list... she is superior in many ways - Emma would rather force a resolution to a psychological trauma than telepathically block or wipe the memory of it, one cannot grow without conflict, even the conflict within ourselves. Charles took those options away from his X-Men, particularly the Originals, all too often. This relationship has allowed us to see the many personal strengths each character has. Scott and Jean were great together for lovey-dovey points, but not as people.

#19 Posted by HAWK2916 (1597 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilsgrin81: You make some interesting points that I never really considered about Emma as a teacher vs. Professor X.

#20 Posted by fisheypixels (78 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilsgrin81: Thats still a pretty big gap....

Why would you detest Beast? Him being my favorite character of anything ever (tied with Rocket Raccoon), I take this as a person attack. (please take that as a joke, please don't think i'm serious and murder me) I feel like Cyclops is pretty much a massive dukewad at the moment. I don't think McCoy would ever reach the level Cyclops achieved in the scale of douchbagery. Basically all his dastardly deeds since AVX (and a little bit from before that) as made me feel this way. If he was real, I'd probably punch him. then get taken out by his acursed followers. but it would be worthless.

I guess it was just the concept of Logan and Jean. they would be much better than Scott and Jean. Anyone could be better than Scott. Blob and Big Bertha could be better than Scott and whoever. I dislike him that much.

I say Scott and Jean because they are one of the classics. You do speak some truth though.

I must say, they are quite good together. I like Emma's character a lot. You know how I feel about Scott. I think the main reason I don't like Emma being a teacher is the fact that she wears the bare (not a spelling error) minimum. literally. while teaching. in front of teenagers. Otherwise, I agree. Plus her sass is just so much fun.

#21 Posted by deaditegonzo (3683 posts) - - Show Bio

Worst is Wolverine and Jean Grey. That is what ruined X-Men for a while and lead to horrible movies.

#22 Posted by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

@fisheypixels: Beast has been irking me more and more for years. But the hypocrisy of bringing the O5 to the future as a lesson for Scott? there's no justifiable reason for Beast doing this other than plain douchebaggy revenge.

I see Scott's only real dastardly deep pre-AvX was X-Force. During AvX he didn't actually DO anything wrong himself. Ultimately it was Dark Phoenix that killed Xavier. And Scott feels the guilt that Jean felt after Dark Phoenix destroyed a star system of 4 billion shi'ar citizens.

I think we all just love the IDEA of Logan and Jean - the rugged, savage, anti-hero and the beautiful good girl. Their implementation whenever actually together - say like in AoA or alternate realities was always so clumsy.

hmmm Emma's teaching attire... for the girls.. not much of an issue... for the boys... well she'd certainly have their attention (though not undivided... as part might be on what she's saying/thinking at them, but the other part would be focussed on her... assets). I think the clothes are a mark of power for her. She can wear what she does because she has proven she is one of the most bad-ass women on Earth. Who would EVER try to tell her to dress more conservatively, and mean it, or get away with it? (Emma would never choose the conservative path - her childhood proved to her it was just a lie to conceal inner depravity).

#23 Posted by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio
@hawk2916 said:

@devilsgrin81: You make some interesting points that I never really considered about Emma as a teacher vs. Professor X.

let me add to this, i have ALWAYS liked Professor X. Always. And still do. I see his flaws as much as i see Emma's. IMHO the fact they never really got a chance to teach TOGETHER is a huge loss for all the students at the Xavier Institute. I imagine their teaching styles, being both so opposed, but so complimentary - being geared towards essentially the same goal - would have made for spectacularly well trained and mentally developed X-Men or even well trained, mentally developed civilian mutants.

#24 Edited by Avenger85 (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo said:

Worst is Wolverine and Jean Grey. That is what ruined X-Men for a while and lead to horrible movies.

I agree ;) But now Cyclops is gonna get some payback at Logan for constantly flirting with and snogging his wife, by having his teenage version BANG Logan's daughter.

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR

#25 Posted by HAWK2916 (1597 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Edited by HexThis (884 posts) - - Show Bio

BEST

Rictor/Shatterstar- Because they're the most realistically-written, the most unique, and they don't appear to need a whole lot of melodramatic gimmicks to continue to be interesting.

MEH...

Scott/Emma - When written well (Torn, Astonishing X-men, Joss Whedon) they are amazing but a lot of the time they're a mutant Barbie and Ken....who is wearing GI Joe's camo.

WORST (a few)

Mystique and Sabretooth- Sabretooth is an idiot, why would Mystique be into him? It's never made sense. Ok, sex, one night stand, sure. But read anything lately with those to kicking around Wolverine recently and you'll quickly realize they make eachother very 2-dimensional.

Northstar and Kyle- I just penalize this one for being insincere. Marvel never does anything interesting with Northstar except attach him to Dazzler (so not stereotypical, right?) but he's all of a sudden SO important when Marvel needs to prove they're progressive. But where is he now? And honestly, Northstar isn't ready for marriage! I LOVE him but he's narcissistic and totally self-centered. He never even got to date! It was rushed and, frankly, Kyle is so uninteresting. Marvel would never do this to a straight character because they are soooo worried about them not being interesting afterward (MJ & Peter, anyone?) but they can totally throw Northstar under the bus just like they did with Storm and Black Panther.

#27 Posted by Avenger85 (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

@avenger85: Oh God!!! Please make it stop!!!

Just imagine how cool it would look on panel. Next time Wolverine's hypocrite ass gives a lecture to Scott, all Scott needs to say is : " Not only was I sleeping with and MARRIED Jean Grey, but my younger self is BANGING your daughter !".

That is surely gonna shut 'professor' Logan up for a bit, I'm sure.

#28 Posted by Avenger85 (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

Logan : "Grrrr you killed Professor Xavier ! The only guy who ever mattered ! You deserve to rot in jail forever for this !"

Scott : "Do you really want your son-in-law to spend his entire life in jail ! Just think of how your daughter would feel ! And what about your Omega-level grandchildren, eh ?"

Logan : *sulks away*

#29 Posted by fisheypixels (78 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilsgrin81: I don't know if you caught the reason he did that. I mean sure he pulled them from an alternate dimension and probably screwed that dimension over, but he did it with good intentions. He did it because he could think of no other options. It was pretty obvious that they couldn't just talk Scott down from what he was doing, which is essentially the same on the douchyness level. Bringing them to the future to talk to Scott was his last resort. Hank was trying to save everything Xavier had built. Scott in AVX first killed Xavier, then when the Phoenix left him, he said he felt bad. So he in response to feeling guilty about killing Professor X, he just goes ahead and utterly destroys everything Xavier built. I see Scott as the villain here. There were plenty of justifiable reasons for why Hank did what he did.

Cheating on Jean with Emma was pretty dastardly. I haven't read X-Force at all...yet. I think the only run that I actually really liked Scott was Whedon and Cassady's run of Astonishing X-Men. And I feel like all the X-Men would share Jean's guilt for the whole Dark Phoenix ordeal.

I've never read them together. AOA is on my to read list though. So I guess that could be where some of this is coming from.

I mean, if she was my teacher, I don't think I'd learn too much in that class. Lets be honest, 90% of guys wouldn't learn too much in that class. I agree that it's her mark of power. I just see it differently. Though being barely covered is terrible when in battle (she can be diamond so it's negated), outside of battle her male enemies are going to be distracted by her extremities. So half of the reason I see is she wears her clothes like that for strategy, and I want to say to almost elevate her status to normal men. Which is a effective strategy. Plus it highlights some of the aspects of her personality. And this will always be in my top 10 for favorite comic panels/jokes:

#30 Edited by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

@fisheypixels: hank's only justification for everything he does (at least lately) has nothing to do with "good intentions." It is, and has always been (more or less), "I'm smarter than you, i know better." I read every issue pre-, of and post- AvX. I don't get desperation from him. I get revenge. Plain and simple. Spiteful, arrogant, childish, perhaps a little grief stricken, but still plain old revenge. "I'll teach you scott summers, i'll bring the original five forward to be ashamed of you. I don't care that it will fuck up the timestream completely, or that the barely trained children could very easily die in such a dangerous period for X-Men and Mutants, with those consequences be damned. I want nothing more than to see Scott Summers suffer"

Cheating with Emma... sure that wasn't the most moral of moves. But he's a man. Jean doesn't and never really did give him what he needed. Also, this was post Apocalypse possession. Scott was a changed man. For better or worse, he's not the same person he was before that.

the original Age of Apocalypse if DEFINITELY worth reading. THe steaming pile of horseshit that spun out of X-Force is only worth it if you like the idea of Wolverboring as Apocalypse.

I don't know... i reckon there'd be an element of initial distraction. But Emma is not above humiliating someone as a lesson to all the other boys in the class. "Look if you like, children, but pay attention to your lessons. You wouldn't like Miss Frost when she's angry"

I love that joke too. But since i hate Hate HATE Kitty... i see it as part of her petulant anti-Emma period... which lets be honest, has never ended... she behaves like such a child when it comes to Emma. And she's not the baby of the X-Men anymore... not by a long shot. That comment, in that context was entirely inappropriate.

#31 Edited by HAWK2916 (1597 posts) - - Show Bio

@hexthis: Agree with the last part of this. I wonder how long it will last... since Marvel has an aversion to marriage. It was a sloppy, rush job. Bandwagon jumping just like the vampire Jubilee thing. So stupid!!!

#32 Posted by fisheypixels (78 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilsgrin81: That is nowhere remotely near his thought process when bringing them to the present. Re-read All New X-Men without being bias towards hating Hank. Pay attention to why he brings them. It's not for revenge, it's because Scott is doing crap how he wants it to be done and could potentially start a war. Hank is trying to stop Scotts revolution, there is no revenge.

Doesn't change the fact that he is a douchbag.

Only AoA related comic I've read was probably X-Termination. Which was fantastically well written. That's one of my favorite runs of all time.

That seems like the most realistic way things would go down there. I'm pretty sure that comment, however inappropriate in the context, would automatically make her my favorite teacher if I was at that school. Sure Hank is my favorite character, but that was fantastic. Kitty is one of the few female characters I like more than Emma. It's mostly based off the Astonishing X-Men run, but I don't see her as the baby at all. I just see the fact that she and Emma strongly dislike each other and take stabs when they can. It may be immature, but it's entertaining. Of the lady super heroes, Kitty is definitely top 3 on my list.

#33 Posted by Avenger85 (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilsgrin81: That is nowhere remotely near his thought process when bringing them to the present. Re-read All New X-Men without being bias towards hating Hank. Pay attention to why he brings them. It's not for revenge, it's because Scott is doing crap how he wants it to be done and could potentially start a war. Hank is trying to stop Scotts revolution, there is no revenge.

Doesn't change the fact that he is a douchbag.

Only AoA related comic I've read was probably X-Termination. Which was fantastically well written. That's one of my favorite runs of all time.

That seems like the most realistic way things would go down there. I'm pretty sure that comment, however inappropriate in the context, would automatically make her my favorite teacher if I was at that school. Sure Hank is my favorite character, but that was fantastic. Kitty is one of the few female characters I like more than Emma. It's mostly based off the Astonishing X-Men run, but I don't see her as the baby at all. I just see the fact that she and Emma strongly dislike each other and take stabs when they can. It may be immature, but it's entertaining. Of the lady super heroes, Kitty is definitely top 3 on my list.

HAHAHAHAHA

Gotto love that blind Cyclops hate. And basically all your reasoning for it is : Beast hates him and said he would start a war and I just hate him !

#34 Edited by fisheypixels (78 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85:

Gotto love that blind Cyclops hate. And basically all your reasoning for it is : Beast hates him and said he would start a war and I just hate him !

I do have to applaud you on the unintentional pun...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA Gotta love those daft assumptions people make based off nothing.

Beast being my favorite character has NOTHING to do with the reason I hate Cyclops. Cyclops and Namor are two of my least liked characters in comics. That's is, end of story. Nowhere have I said "I hate Cyclops because Beast hates him."

Let's be honest, Cyclops is kind of a prick. But then again I've never really liked the leaders of teams in fictional stories (there are exceptions; Firefly, GOTG, a few others). Before you start making accusations, Let me state the obvious. As of recently, Cyclops has been recruiting new mutants for his "Revolution". I'm sure you already know that the definition of Revolution is a forcible overthrow of a government or social order in favor of a new system. Now don't get me wrong, I love a good story about a revolution, but when there isn't anything really wrong. I mean things are far from being right in 616, but people aren't really holding anti-mutant riots anymore(granted, they are arresting some mutants). When the government needs to change for the better, in favor of the mutants, attacking humans is going to be pretty counterproductive.

Then there is the entire AVX incident. The fact that Cyclops didn't even try to talk to Cap before just blasting him and starting the entire AVX everything. Plus he was trying to force this all powerful entity into one girl, just kind of expecting her to obey all his commands. All powerful source. Planet eater. I understand that he was desperate, I understand that he was trying to save the mutant race. But doing it by controlling an all powerful source that could most likely kill him with a fart? Yeah, genius.

Not to mention the part where he gets angry so he just kinda kills Xavier in front of everyone. His father figure and mentor for most of his life. Sure he was under the influence of the Phoenix, and felt bad, but what did he follow that up with? Oh, right. He defiled everything Xavier stood for by starting his revolution.

He also can't stand to face his own problems. think back to early to mid 2000's.

He wasn't too bad in Whedon's run of Astonishing X-Men. As I said multiple times. Now, those reasons I gave were stated without so much as mentioning Beast. Still think the same thing? too bad for you. I know why I hate Cyclops. I have my reasons. Don't go making BS assumptions about people. It's a pretty low move. Then again this is the internet, where nothing matters except what you think is funny and right.

#35 Edited by Avenger85 (1611 posts) - - Show Bio
@fisheypixels said:

@avenger85:

@avenger85 said:

Gotto love that blind Cyclops hate. And basically all your reasoning for it is : Beast hates him and said he would start a war and I just hate him !

blah blah blah

Most of the points you make are incorrect and blindly one sided. But whatever. You are entitled to your own opinion and entitled to entertain us with it.

Edit : In some cases I would also blame the writers for writing Cyclops badly, trying to make him a villain.

#36 Posted by deaditegonzo (3683 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo said:

Worst is Wolverine and Jean Grey. That is what ruined X-Men for a while and lead to horrible movies.

I agree ;) But now Cyclops is gonna get some payback at Logan for constantly flirting with and snogging his wife, by having his teenage version BANG Logan's daughter.

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR

BOUT TIME! This in All New Xmen?

#37 Posted by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85 said:

@deaditegonzo said:

Worst is Wolverine and Jean Grey. That is what ruined X-Men for a while and lead to horrible movies.

I agree ;) But now Cyclops is gonna get some payback at Logan for constantly flirting with and snogging his wife, by having his teenage version BANG Logan's daughter.

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR

BOUT TIME! This in All New Xmen?

mostly yes, a little bit in uncanny too

#38 Posted by fisheypixels (78 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: What's done is done and you are being quite the douch. And please do me a favor and point out the incorrect parts.

I look at things unbiased. One of the things I do after reading a series or issue is think on why a character did what they did. And that was my view and stance on those events. I see Cyclops as becoming a villain more than a hero. Which to be honest, I'd rather him be a villain than a hero. I would enjoy seeing him become the new Magneto and fighting the normal X-Men. You'd have to be blind to not see this. He's a great character, good depth and back story and everything, I just really really don't like him. Now do the world a favor and go to the bathroom to get your undergarments un-bunched.

By the way, who is "us"?

Just because you don't like what the writer does doesn't make them a bad writer. Am I still the one who is looking at things one sided?

#39 Posted by Experio (14333 posts) - - Show Bio

Havok and Polaris was best

Cyclop and Jean worst

#40 Edited by Avenger85 (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

@fisheypixels said:

@avenger85: What's done is done and you are being quite the douch. And please do me a favor and point out the incorrect parts.

I look at things unbiased. One of the things I do after reading a series or issue is think on why a character did what they did. And that was my view and stance on those events. I see Cyclops as becoming a villain more than a hero. Which to be honest, I'd rather him be a villain than a hero. I would enjoy seeing him become the new Magneto and fighting the normal X-Men. You'd have to be blind to not see this. He's a great character, good depth and back story and everything, I just really really don't like him. Now do the world a favor and go to the bathroom to get your undergarments un-bunched.

By the way, who is "us"?

Just because you don't like what the writer does doesn't make them a bad writer. Am I still the one who is looking at things one sided?

Please link us ( as in ALL of us, the forum members ) scans from the AvX comic that you've been reading where Captain America comes alone or with a couple of his friends to politely request Cyclops to hand over one of the citizens of Utopia in a diplomatic way, first. Then we can continue this discussion.

By "us" I mean all of us who have seen blind Cyclops haters like you. You aren't the first of those here and this discussion was had many times already. Still hilarious though.

Edit : Lvenger, is that you, with a new username ?

#41 Edited by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

@fisheypixels said:

@avenger85: What's done is done and you are being quite the douch. And please do me a favor and point out the incorrect parts.

I look at things unbiased. One of the things I do after reading a series or issue is think on why a character did what they did. And that was my view and stance on those events. I see Cyclops as becoming a villain more than a hero. Which to be honest, I'd rather him be a villain than a hero. I would enjoy seeing him become the new Magneto and fighting the normal X-Men. You'd have to be blind to not see this. He's a great character, good depth and back story and everything, I just really really don't like him. Now do the world a favor and go to the bathroom to get your undergarments un-bunched.

By the way, who is "us"?

Just because you don't like what the writer does doesn't make them a bad writer. Am I still the one who is looking at things one sided?

you may be doing exactly what you say you are... with your post-read review... but i honestly think you're letting your anti-Cyclops bias colour your reasonings. Just like you did with Beast's reaction to AvX - there's no rational argument for ANY X-MAN EVER to fuck with the timestream - for any REASON. Beast is too smart to act irrationally, and for him to do so, proves my point that his is an ego out of control. I'll admit perhaps i did the same as you did with Cyclops, in my Beast action review. But, at least in my case, Cyclops is not a character i'd ever liked before. In fact until recently he held the illustrious position of "X-Man i Hate the Most" This position has now been usurped by Beast, with honorable mentions to Kitty and Logan (tho Logan is more an indifference to his presence since he's EVERYWHERE).

#42 Posted by fisheypixels (78 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: Dear god! Have you actually read anything I said? You are putting words in my mouth that I never even hinted at saying. Did I ever say Cap came alone? No. Try re-reading it. You essentially described the scene. Captain America walks to Cyclops on Utopia's beach. Cyclops had his X-Men at his back. Captain America was alone, the Avengers were on the ship over the sea. He said he needed to take Hope into custody, in a respectable manor. I'll step up and say I was wrong about Cyclops just blasting. They had a little, respectable, polite chat before Cyclops just blasted him. So you essentially just described that whole scene.

Blind? Did you not read all the valid reasons as to why I don't like Cyclops? Don't tell me those aren't valid. You're just too bias towards anything that isn't rooting for Cyclops to see. Anyway, I have my reasons why I don't like him. Why do you feel the need to change that?

Who is that? Someone else you bullied? Was their opinion "wrong" too?

@devilsgrin81: I don't recall ever saying that it was right of Beast to mess with the timestream. I just said that it was his last resort, I don't believe he would have done it if there was another option open. I agree, he does have a big ego, and that is one thing I don't like about him. But every well written character has flaws. Rocket Raccoon is also my favorite character (it's kind of a tie), but he has anger issues. Every great character has flaws like that. Cyclops has those flaws, as I said before, he is a great character. One whom I think would be better as a villain.

I can't say much about Cyclops lately since I'm only on All New X-Men issue 3 (NONE OF THE KRUTAKING COMIC STORES HAVE ISSUE 4!!!! They don't have GOTG issue 4 either!!!). Just out of curiosity, what events made Beast, Logan and Kitty replace Cyclops? (I think it's safe to assume Beast's may have had something (everything) to do with the timestream). If it's got spoilers though, don't say. Namor is still strong at my Number 1.

Yeah...Logan wiggles his way into everything comics related....

#43 Posted by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

@fisheypixels:

since we won't ever agree on Cyclops... i'll move right along to the Beast Kitty and Logan thing.

Logan is obvious. There's just too much of him. His characterization over the past couple of years has become ridiculous. And Marvel has attempted to make him look like a full-fledged hero at Cyclops' expense. The whole Kids Shouldn't Be Fighting bullshit.

Kitty. Several Reasons... I have always rather disliked her. her powers are limited, her skills at combat were added in only to lift her from being nearly as useless as Cipher, She's in so many people's minds the baby of the X-Men (apart from originals fans, for whom that's Bobby, and for those who started with X-Men TAS for whom its Jubilee) and for some reason this gets her all these "awesome" points. She became a Mary Sue early on, and i despise those sorts of characters. Always.

Beast... Beast has grown to become the character i despise the most. Whilst generally i was only ever indifferent to his - frankly i couldn't see the need for him with Ms Marvel-powered Rogue, savage Wolverine and genius Professor X around - since his evolution into feline-beast, and his new more simian Beast again... i've started to dislike him more and more. Since Utopia i've found him incredibly arrogant and egotistical. For all his brilliance, he has one claim to fame... he was an Avenger for 2 minutes. Oh and he cured the Legacy Virus - but doing so killed Colossus (Colossus sacrificed himself... it was actually sad... i had tears after that panel). He became dead weight... not just to the story, but to Cyclops it seemed. And THAT is when he became an active whiner. His ego and arrogance are all to blame, that Scott has the X-Club - full of geniuses - to do all his scientific research, and not just Beast was clearly an affront to old Hank. So he became a dissenter - then abandoned his oldest "friend". For the JGS "where he'll actually run it" coz Logan clearly can't. The whole Anti-Cyclops ranting during AvX... he was almost worse than Logan, Cap and Tony combined. And yet, while the P5 were still P and not DP, they were making the world a better place than any Avenger had ever done. Beast was part of the chorus that pushed the P5 over the line and into DP territory. I don't want to re-hash the timestream thing again. But i'm sorry, i cannot ever see even Beast making that choice as the logical one. Its purely revenge. it has no legitimate validity to "keep Scott from going wrong." Further reading of later confrontations seems to confirm that Beast did indeed do it to get revenge, and prove a point. This move, frankly, confirms that despite being an intellectual genius.. Beast is a farking idiot.

#44 Posted by fisheypixels (78 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilsgrin81: Yeah. I still really like him, but I agree that he gets way too much attention. Especially with movies. I'd love to see origin movies for the original 5 X-Men. Or a movie about the original 5 and their backstories/how they got to the mansion. That would be a dream come true!

I've always liked her powers. I like the more subtle powers, where it's limited, but amazing how useful it really can be. I have to disagree yet again. Kitty is probably my favorite of the lady X-Men. I've just always liked her for some reason. They were pretty inconsistent though with her whole being a genius and a teenage girl part.

What series was the Legacy Virus?? I keep hearing about it, but I have yet to find out what series it's in to read it! I understand where you are coming from, I guess this is out biggest difference. Beast has been my favorite character ever since I start comics last August. Morrison's New X-Men was my first full series, and it was a great starter series! I do see where you are coming from, but while he messes up frequently in some areas, he makes up for incredibly in others. I mean you've got to give him credit. He built JGS (i'm just starting that series). When you look at it from the standpoint of Hank built it and JGS is Hank's baby. So Hank wants to run it. That part makes sense. Plus the whole Logan's past could be another role in that. I guess we just see him and his faults differently.

So who are your favorite mutants? and why?

#45 Posted by Avenger85 (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: Dear god! Have you actually read anything I said? You are putting words in my mouth that I never even hinted at saying. Did I ever say Cap came alone? No. Try re-reading it. You essentially described the scene. Captain America walks to Cyclops on Utopia's beach. Cyclops had his X-Men at his back. Captain America was alone, the Avengers were on the ship over the sea. He said he needed to take Hope into custody, in a respectable manor. I'll step up and say I was wrong about Cyclops just blasting. They had a little, respectable, polite chat before Cyclops just blasted him. So you essentially just described that whole scene.

Blind? Did you not read all the valid reasons as to why I don't like Cyclops? Don't tell me those aren't valid. You're just too bias towards anything that isn't rooting for Cyclops to see. Anyway, I have my reasons why I don't like him. Why do you feel the need to change that?

Who is that? Someone else you bullied? Was their opinion "wrong" too?

@devilsgrin81: I don't recall ever saying that it was right of Beast to mess with the timestream. I just said that it was his last resort, I don't believe he would have done it if there was another option open. I agree, he does have a big ego, and that is one thing I don't like about him. But every well written character has flaws. Rocket Raccoon is also my favorite character (it's kind of a tie), but he has anger issues. Every great character has flaws like that. Cyclops has those flaws, as I said before, he is a great character. One whom I think would be better as a villain.

I can't say much about Cyclops lately since I'm only on All New X-Men issue 3 (NONE OF THE KRUTAKING COMIC STORES HAVE ISSUE 4!!!! They don't have GOTG issue 4 either!!!). Just out of curiosity, what events made Beast, Logan and Kitty replace Cyclops? (I think it's safe to assume Beast's may have had something (everything) to do with the timestream). If it's got spoilers though, don't say. Namor is still strong at my Number 1.

Yeah...Logan wiggles his way into everything comics related....

Seems like you have been reading a different AvX comic than everyone else.

#46 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (4696 posts) - - Show Bio

Best: Cyke Jean.

Worst: Cyclops Emma Frost

#47 Edited by devilsgrin81 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

@fisheypixels said:

@devilsgrin81: Yeah. I still really like him, but I agree that he gets way too much attention. Especially with movies. I'd love to see origin movies for the original 5 X-Men. Or a movie about the original 5 and their backstories/how they got to the mansion. That would be a dream come true!

I've always liked her powers. I like the more subtle powers, where it's limited, but amazing how useful it really can be. I have to disagree yet again. Kitty is probably my favorite of the lady X-Men. I've just always liked her for some reason. They were pretty inconsistent though with her whole being a genius and a teenage girl part.

What series was the Legacy Virus?? I keep hearing about it, but I have yet to find out what series it's in to read it! I understand where you are coming from, I guess this is out biggest difference. Beast has been my favorite character ever since I start comics last August. Morrison's New X-Men was my first full series, and it was a great starter series! I do see where you are coming from, but while he messes up frequently in some areas, he makes up for incredibly in others. I mean you've got to give him credit. He built JGS (i'm just starting that series). When you look at it from the standpoint of Hank built it and JGS is Hank's baby. So Hank wants to run it. That part makes sense. Plus the whole Logan's past could be another role in that. I guess we just see him and his faults differently.

So who are your favorite mutants? and why?

Aah... you're a comic newbie... now its making sense - it certainly colors your perceptions of the events.

My favourites... I'll limit to just 3. (though i'll honorably list Iceman, Gambit, Psylocke, The Stepford Cuckoos, Colossus (nostalgic reasons, he needs to be Petey again, not this post Phoenix douche he's become), Havok (slipped a bit since they made him an Avenger) and Nightcrawler)

3. Sage... oh gods i love her. She's cold, calculating, fiercely devoted to her causes, has one of the most unique mutations - among her quite of subtle powers... She's one of the most dangerous combatants on Earth. whilst on a pure skill level she's not matching Wolverboring or Psylocke... on a one-on-one situation... she can read them like a book and very likely defeat them. She has low level telepathy... but with the full range of training from Xavier. She may be a bit limited compared to even Psylocke or the individual cuckoos... but she has a will that is unmatched in the X-Men - or their foes. Her cyberpathic abilities and computer precise mind are awesome. She can actually multi-task. (people claim to be able to multi-task... but its not true for normal people) with the way her mind works. The coolest thing... she can literally trigger the potential mutations in others. She showed this first when she saved YOUR favourite Beast from death... she forced a successive mutation that gave him a feline appearance. She triggered mutations in Lifeguard and Slipstream. And this power is what makes her the deadly fighter. She can see the energy flow in her foe's bodies... predicting their movements, and countering them flawlessly. Sorry... ranting. She gets not enough love.

2. Emma Frost. Not much needs to be said about Emma... you'll have read enough to know at least who and what she is. But my reasonings... She's a Grade A bitch. She pulls no punches when things need to be said or done. I love that about her. Most of all though, the defining love at her heart - the fuel for her fierceness. She is a teacher. She loves her students absolutely. She will fight to the last to protect them. She'd probably even take the bullet for them (even pre-diamond she would have for one of her students - particularly a favourite (yes she plays favourites ask Empath or Hellion)). Aside from the Cuckoos, who are biologically her children, she is a mother with dozens of kids. She's also a fan of "spare the rod, spoil the child." Her students always excel. They may not be as self-sacrificing as say... an Xavier-student... but they are usually more capable in every other area.

1. Storm. There is no-one else who even comes close. In ALL fiction. Not just the X-Men or Marvel or Comics. Storm is my favourite fictional character from any medium. Many reasons... Orphan, Thief, Goddess, Mutant, Warrior, Leader, Queen, now even Teacher. But above all, the reason that comes back time and again. Unlike ALL the other X-Men, Storm CHOSE to become one of them. Virtually every other X-Man ended up at Xavier's due to either fear of humanity or redemption for their "crimes" (real, spiritual or imagined). Storm chose to give up being the Desert Goddess to fight to protect a world that would hate and fear her. Ororo was the Beautiful Windrider. She literally HAS worshippers convinced of her divinity. Storm made the heroes Choice from the very beginning. She didn't have to work up to it, or be trained to know it was the right thing, she chose to be a hero. That's why she's my favourite.

#48 Posted by Squares (4957 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilsgrin81: So half of the reason I see is she wears her clothes like that for strategy, and I want to say to almost elevate her status to normal men.

Wow, that's the most sexist thing I've read in a while. Not sure if it's a matter of phrasing or if you genuinely think female characters are inferior, but I'm actually kind of offended.

#49 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4281 posts) - - Show Bio

hmm.. okay

Best X-men Couples?

To me there aren't really all that many couples that I find that interesting in X-men, or even comics in general. If you look at the classic era of X-men (1975-1986), there really aren't that many couples that were actually that central to the story. There's Cyclops and Jean, obviously, and then Cyclops and Maddy, but even there, most of the characters who ended up as couples (Havok and Polaris, Moira and Banshee, Xavier and Lilandra, etc) were essentially being given some reason to leave the X-men, while the stories of the main characters focused more on them growing as individuals and developing solid friendships.

A notable twist on this trend comes from Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, in that most of the characters who become couples in that series are being given a reason to stay associated with the X-men. Cyclops and Emma are established to at the beginning of this run to now be a couple, which is ostensibly at least part of why Emma has stayed with the team up to this point, Kitty and Colossus finally become a couple after years of sharing an especially singular friendship, and the Beast finds new love in the end with Agent Brand.

Maybe it's simply a credit to how convincingly Whedon writes these couples, but to me these are the characters I've enjoyed most as couples and in each case them being couples makes the X-men feel more like a family, rather than what characters do when they just simply don't have one. (Another, well, not-quite-couple, that I always thought worked well in this regard were Beast and Cecilia Reyes, who's obvious attraction seemed to make her feel more compelled to want to stay with the team).

Of course, all of this works better in the case of Astonishing' because all of those characters were pretty well established as individual characters in their own right before actually becoming couples, which makes the whole thing feel a lot more organic than characters who were sort of just stuck together to be written out (like Havok and Polaris) or seemingly introduced for the purpose of being with another, pre-existing character (like Moira, Lilandra, Yuriko, Forge, Kyle etc..), which I suppose is why I have no problem with Storm and Wolverine's relationship, as it was built up over years and thus feels organic within the development of their friendship.

Couples I could take or leave

Really, if I like a character, it doesn't much matter to me who they're with, or if they're with anyone, so I guess most X-men couples would fall into this category for me. But there have been some couples I liked because of how their relationships with each other showed another side of them, helping them to develop as more fully formed characters. Obviously most of my favorite couples would fall into this category (Cyclops and Emma being the best example), but there are some couples who despite being important to each other's stories, weren't necessarily very interesting as couples beyond that.

Gambit and Rogue are, I suppose, the go-to example of this for me, two characters who's romance was both mutually beneficial to their character growth and yet still ultimately stifling to it as they worked through enough of their problems to become indivisible, and thus somewhat stagnant. Storm and Forge are another pair that seem like they could have ended up this way, had they actually stayed together. And then there's Cyclops and Jean.. for me, these are characters I'd almost rather not see as couples, as they've all proven to be more interesting (to me) separate from each other and because it feels like they should have moved on by now.

just because two characters (or people) have an especially relevant relationship to each other certainly doesn't mean that they will always have/be in that same relationship. Like people, characters can change; their relationships to each other can change, and actual character development is always going to be more interesting -to me- than whatever romantic relationships they have or the characters remaining in the same roles as they always have been in.

Worst X-men Couples

Since I don't really care too much about which characters are with who, I don't have many especially strong reasons for not wanting to see characters together. There are my previous examples of characters I just find more interesting separately (to which I guess I could add Havok and Polaris), but mostly I just don't really care much one way or the other.

The only exceptions to this would be the especially random hook-ups like Magneto and Rogue or Angel and Husk, which both just always felt kind of creepy to me.

#50 Posted by fisheypixels (78 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: Okay.

And no more arguing. You win. I admit defeat. End of story. Now it's water under the bridge. No need to hold grudges or anything of the sort.

@devilsgrin81: Indeed. I'm slowly but surely getting up to the status of "Walking dictionary" along the lines of post 2000's X-Men. (Morrison until now)

I like your honorable mentions list. Quite very well. I didn't know Peter was really in the more recent comics. I seem to remember seeing him in Battle Of The Atom, but otherwise I've heard nothing. Peter and Iceman were my favorite growing up, mainly because of their powers and they seemed cool. (I never had comics growing up, only the X-Men, Spider-Man, and Justice League encyclopedias from the school library.)

I don't think I've read any series where Sage was on the team But I'd have to say she sounds amazing. I mean she was in one minuscule part of Morrison's New X-Men (my first and possibly favorite series. i refer to it a lot.) but that doesn't count. I liked her in there, but it was one, maybe two issues. From your description, I'd love to read more about her!

Ah yes. Well said. Emma is top 10 status on my list of favorites. Sass might have a big part to do with that. I love figuring out what makes people tick and finding/figuring what might have happened to make them how they are. And Emma Frost is probably my favorite person to do this with. The psychology behind her character, and how incredibly well she handles situations is just so much fun to read! For example, her clothing. My take on why she dresses that way is so she can subconsciously gain the upper hand when dealing with males. And yes, she is a fantastic teacher.

I never really gave Storm much thought (maybe because she was never a main character in anything I read). Now, after hearing you say that, it's all fitting into place. I remember back in middle school, after I read through Storm's bio in the X-Men encyclopedia, it mentioned something about her being a thief, orphan, etc. And I wanted to read that story. Well now I want to read that again. Being all of those things would make for such a great story, does she have her own comic explaining her origin?