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#1 Edited by darthphoenix (691 posts) - - Show Bio

So rachel and storm is not getting along really well. in BOTA 3 rachel and kitty stood up against storm's leadership. seems like the two have issues on storm taking over the x-men's leadership post. In one of the covers of BOTA the girls are clearly fighting against each other.

Do you think it's a battle for leadership?

Who do you think would emerge as new x-men leader?

#2 Posted by xrs10 (49 posts) - - Show Bio

I am liking it so far but I am struggling with why Rachel and Kitty are hating on Storm so much, I don't see that she has done anything that bad. Its like they are acting a bit childish especially Kitty :S

#3 Edited by darthphoenix (691 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the x-men's leadership have been up for grabs since professor x died. Kitty and Rachel just didn't expect for it to automatically fall into storm's hands. There was no formal election or announcement that storm is to take over. Storm just literally stepped up.

Though, I don't like the idea of an Avenger(storm/beast/wolverine) being the head of the x-men. I'd rather have Cyclops,kitty or cannonball take over the x-men leadership.

#4 Posted by HAWK2916 (1645 posts) - - Show Bio

It does seem that theres a battle on the way. The just seemed to balk ar being ordered around by Storm at the moment. I still wonder about the significance of Kitty channeling her inner Cyclops last issue and saying basically" to me my xmen". This latest issue she seems to speak a little more favorably about Cyclops. I wonder if we will see another Schism spring out of this and shake the teams up again

#5 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

I think both Kitty and Rachel need to remember their places. The disobedience and disrespect is unspeakable. How dare they ?

#6 Posted by adamTRMM (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

I think both Kitty and Rachel need to remember their places. The disobedience and disrespect is unspeakable. How dare they ?

And what is this place?

#7 Posted by darthphoenix (691 posts) - - Show Bio

Let us remember that there is no formal election or announcement of who should take on the x-men's leadership. Storm just assumed the position just because she felt there is a need for her to do so. Kitty has every right to the x-men leadership post as much as storm does. Kitty has been a headmistress of the school too. And why was she in charge? is it because storm was too busy being an avenger?

#8 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4423 posts) - - Show Bio

I think both Kitty and Rachel need to remember their places. The disobedience and disrespect is unspeakable. How dare they ?

you're being sarcastic, right?

I feel like Kitty especially has no problem with Storm being in charge, because Storm helped train her, and she usually agrees with her leadership. But, like Colossus in the last volume, Kitty does not like being treated like a subordinate; and why should she be okay with that? She's been an X-man almost as long as Storm, at this point, and I think she (and Colossus) should have earned more of Storm's respect than that. Storm is a great leader, but she can definitely be stubborn, and at times even a bit arrogant, in this regard.

Rachel may have done less to gain Storm's respect over the years, but she's definitely perceptive enough to recognize this aspect of Storm's personality, and to see the need to address it. It is a common theme in the personalities of characters that are great leaders (Cyclops, Xavier, Reed Richards, Tony Stark, etc) to at time become detached from, or out of touch with, the people they lead. And this is certainly a theme we've seen with Storm before.

In a lesser writer's hands, I'd be worried about this being another Duel or Schism rehash; but with Wood at the helm, maybe these issues can be addressed without a big sensational rift tearing another cool team apart. Drama is good, but working through the drama is a more constructive use of the characters.

#9 Posted by HAWK2916 (1645 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe this give us the return of Academy X. Storm,Kitty, and Rachel along with other senior xmen can put together student teams (i.e hellions, new mutants, paragons etc) and they can compete that way. At least we'd get a student book

#10 Posted by darthphoenix (691 posts) - - Show Bio

Though i don't really see kitty and rachel are longing to lead the x-men. i think that they are just standing up for what they believe in, even at the expense of disobeying or standing up against storm. I'm just happy that the 2 are finally getting along again. they have been best friends since their excalibur days. writers have not touched kitty's friendship but focused on her relationship with iceman. I hope that they also tackle on her friendship with her ex bff magik who happens to be on the other side of the fence.

I wouldn't mind a duel for leadership. I'd bet on Rachel for a big change

#11 Posted by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

Kitty and Rachel should just take a group of mutants and go start another Excalibur! England needs mutants... :P

#12 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

I think both Kitty and Rachel need to remember their places. The disobedience and disrespect is unspeakable. How dare they ?

you're being sarcastic, right?

I feel like Kitty especially has no problem with Storm being in charge, because Storm helped train her, and she usually agrees with her leadership. But, like Colossus in the last volume, Kitty does not like being treated like a subordinate; and why should she be okay with that? She's been an X-man almost as long as Storm, at this point, and I think she (and Colossus) should have earned more of Storm's respect than that. Storm is a great leader, but she can definitely be stubborn, and at times even a bit arrogant, in this regard.

Rachel may have done less to gain Storm's respect over the years, but she's definitely perceptive enough to recognize this aspect of Storm's personality, and to see the need to address it. It is a common theme in the personalities of characters that are great leaders (Cyclops, Xavier, Reed Richards, Tony Stark, etc) to at time become detached from, or out of touch with, the people they lead. And this is certainly a theme we've seen with Storm before.

In a lesser writer's hands, I'd be worried about this being another Duel or Schism rehash; but with Wood at the helm, maybe these issues can be addressed without a big sensational rift tearing another cool team apart. Drama is good, but working through the drama is a more constructive use of the characters.

No, i'm very disappointed. It was simple instruction that she's had no trouble following in previous days, what changes now? Save for the fact that she's the 05's personal nanny but they're supposed to be going back lest the the present be distorted beyond belief? It's a logical decision and both she and Rachel are being total brats about it.

I can only imagine the look on Storm's face when this happened.

Rachel knew what she was doing, if the next issue opens up with Storm giving her a sharp back-hand, i won't be surprised.

It's not about who's leading. Kitty and Rachel's combined efforts at irrational heroics have subsequently cost Storm and co. the loss of Scott and Jean, even though they'll be coming back anyways, but they let their emotions get in the way and got themselves in the way as well. Storm specifically ordered the two of them to stay put, for respectable reasons and Rachel's decided to let her personal, and, currently, irrelevant grudges get the better of her. There was nothing stubborn or arrogant about Storm ordering the two of them to stay put, being that she only received 5-6 lines in this issue, so i'm not sure what you're referring to, exactly, and as it were, she was right in doing so, cause they only just managed to get in the way, anyways.

Not that this has anything to do with the writing, i think this is pretty in-character for the two, but nevertheless, they need to be disciplined. And Wood said there'll be a shake-up in the ranks, so we shall see.

#13 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4423 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: I'm not trying to justify Rachel and Kitty's actions, as you point out, clearly they were foolhardy.

My point was just that Storm's authority to lead comes solely from the X-men who follow her, and nothing besides; simply, she has no authority to discipline Kitty or Rachel, as she only leads them by their own acceptance.

Kitty and Rachel were wrong, I agree with you there; but they are no longer children in her care, and I don't think she'll do a great job leading them if she continues to treat them as subordinates rather than equals.

#14 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: I'm not trying to justify Rachel and Kitty's actions, as you point out, clearly they were foolhardy.

My point was just that Storm's authority to lead comes solely from the X-men who follow her, and nothing besides; simply, she has no authority to discipline Kitty or Rachel, as she only leads them by their own acceptance.

Kitty and Rachel were wrong, I agree with you there; but they are no longer children in her care, and I don't think she'll do a great job leading them if she continues to treat them as subordinates rather than equals.

She's the Headmistress of the JGS. They eat, live and breathe on her grounds. Things have changed. If they're unhappy of the current status-quo, Cyclops and his Revolutionaries are accepting with open arms.

Storm did absolutely nothing to indicate this condescension you're speaking of. She asked them to stay behind, and calmly, made it clear why. She's treated every member of that 'team' with equal respect since inception, specifically, Ororo directly and overtly asking Rachel what the problem was and having it out in front of the others like mature, respectful and equal adults.They're not children in her care, no, but if the two of them continue to act like it, then it's only fair that they be treated as such.

#15 Posted by Silver_Raven (351 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what is so great about X-men is that other characters are able to question the person in authority, who in this book is Storm.

Unfortunately none of the other X-men books have had anyone really question Cyclops or Wolverine over all the years they have been calling the shots and deciding what is "best" for mutantkind. Storm has just put this team together and already they are challenging her, that seems so disrespectful, especially with them all being friends. But i guess Rachel might feel less connected to the rest of team, other than Kitty.

i can deal with Storm getting some opposition as long as the other guys are getting the same heat. But from what i have seen in the other books, everyone just follow orders like good little sheep. Storm is leading a team wolves. ^-^

#16 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4423 posts) - - Show Bio

She's the Headmistress of the JGS. They eat, live and breathe on her grounds. Things have changed. If they're unhappy of the current status-quo, Cyclops and his Revolutionaries are accepting with open arms.

on her grounds? as I recall, it was Kitty who gave her the job of Headmistress.

And I don't remember anyone saying that made her the leader of the team.

Storm did absolutely nothing to indicate this condescension you're speaking of. She asked them to stay behind, and calmly, made it clear why. She's treated every member of that 'team' with equal respect since inception, specifically, Ororo directly and overtly asking Rachel what the problem was and having it out in front of the others like mature, respectful and equal adults.They're not children in her care, no, but if the two of them continue to act like it, then it's only fair that they be treated as such.

"oh, come on, Storm. You "ordered" me?"

was Kitty's response. Maybe that's Kitty being immature or overreacting, but that it echoes the sentiment of not only Rachel (from the last issue) but Colossus as well (from the last volume), so, at least three of her former and oldest teammates, leads me to see it as part of a pattern. Like I said, I do think that Kitty and Rachel were wrong in this issue, and I do think that Storm is the most fit to lead; but if Storm can't get those three to go along with her, it may be time she rethinks her approach to how she leads this team.

#17 Edited by darthphoenix (691 posts) - - Show Bio

on her grounds? as I recall, it was Kitty who gave her the job of Headmistress.

I think kitty is more fit for the position. I mean she earned her way to the top. she was really good in keeping the school together. I mean where was storm for most of the time? wasn't she busy with the avengers? I used to love storm till started having her superiority complex. She was really good with her subordinates during her x-men gold days. she treated her team mates really well. Never saw her team as her subordinates but as her equals. She was even overly protective of Jean.

And I don't remember anyone saying that made her the leader of the team.

I agree. No one made her a leader. She just assumed the position (she even said it herself in x-men 4).

And I don't like the Idea of wolverine, storm or rogue leading the x-men. It would be like the x-men - a subordinate of the avengers. The 3 are members of the avengers(or at least wolvie and storm). them taking orders from cap would put the x-men below the avengers. So I would rather have a duel and come up with a new leader apart from storm and wolverine.

#18 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

She's the Headmistress of the JGS. They eat, live and breathe on her grounds. Things have changed. If they're unhappy of the current status-quo, Cyclops and his Revolutionaries are accepting with open arms.

on her grounds? as I recall, it was Kitty who gave her the job of Headmistress.

And I don't remember anyone saying that made her the leader of the team.

Storm did absolutely nothing to indicate this condescension you're speaking of. She asked them to stay behind, and calmly, made it clear why. She's treated every member of that 'team' with equal respect since inception, specifically, Ororo directly and overtly asking Rachel what the problem was and having it out in front of the others like mature, respectful and equal adults.They're not children in her care, no, but if the two of them continue to act like it, then it's only fair that they be treated as such.

"oh, come on, Storm. You "ordered" me?"

was Kitty's response. Maybe that's Kitty being immature or overreacting, but that it echoes the sentiment of not only Rachel (from the last issue) but Colossus as well (from the last volume), so, at least three of her former and oldest teammates, leads me to see it as part of a pattern. Like I said, I do think that Kitty and Rachel were wrong in this issue, and I do think that Storm is the most fit to lead; but if Storm can't get those three to go along with her, it may be time she rethinks her approach to how she leads this team.

A position Kitty would never have retained if Scott didn't grovel at Ororo's feat to stay on Utopia. Kitty didn't give her anything. She abruptly stepped down to settle for lesser duties i.e nannying the Bore-5 while Storm stepped up as that's her right and responsibility.

It need not be said. Who lead this team to find Jubilee ? Who lead this team to find Arkea ? Who lead this team to save an airplane full of people ? You've said it yourself, Storm's wasted on a team she isn't leading, not that i agree with that, but i don't see your point here.

Storm kindly asked them to stay put for logical and tactical purposes. Simple instructions that were disregarded. There is no philosophical reasoning behind it. She's not the one who needs to change her approach as she's done nothing to warrant a deference, they're the ones acting out of hand. And both Kitty and Rachel know where the door is.

#19 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

on her grounds? as I recall, it was Kitty who gave her the job of Headmistress.

I think kitty is more fit for the position. I mean she earned her way to the top. she was really good in keeping the school together. I mean where was storm for most of the time? wasn't she busy with the avengers? I used to love storm till started having her superiority complex. She was really good with her subordinates during her x-men gold days. she treated her team mates really well. Never saw her team as her subordinates but as her equals. She was even overly protective of Jean.

And I don't remember anyone saying that made her the leader of the team.

I agree. No one made her a leader. She just assumed the position (she even said it herself in x-men 4).

And I don't like the Idea of wolverine, storm or rogue leading the x-men. It would be like the x-men - a subordinate of the avengers. The 3 are members of the avengers(or at least wolvie and storm). them taking orders from cap would put the x-men below the avengers. So I would rather have a duel and come up with a new leader apart from storm and wolverine.

Kitty only managed to get that position by chance and ran away from it because she thought Teen Jeen mattered more than the school. She didn't do that much of a great job. Storm was in Utopia, facts, right.

She is the leader of the X-Men--it doesn't more complicated than that.

And no, Storm is not and never has been, a member of the Avengers.

#20 Posted by phisigmatau (509 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither has Cyclops. And he everyone is the friggin leader of the X-men

#21 Posted by darthphoenix (691 posts) - - Show Bio

And no, Storm is not and never has been, a member of the Avengers

These articles say that she joined avengers

http://www.newsarama.com/15446-storm-on-the-avengers-10-surprising-superteam-additions.html

http://marvel.com/news/story/18421/earths_mightiest_costumes_storm

Back In Black

For much of the past decade, Ororo has sported a look that combines many of the details of her previous ones. Like the original it's black and has almost the exact same cape. She also kept the tiara, but changed up the chest area, leaving that more open than in previous incarnations. She wore this costume when she met back up with the man who would become her husband, The Black Panther, when the two of them filled in for Reed and Sue Richards in the Fantastic Four, and just recently in AVENGERS when she joined the team!

More on Marvel.com:

http://marvel.com/news/story/18421/earths_mightiest_costumes_storm#ixzz2enzA3B3P

#22 Posted by jhazzroucher (15544 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's a battle for leadership. I don't see Rachel nor Kitty becoming a leader. I'd prefer Rogue or Psylocke over them.

I think it's just getting emotional but I think at the end, everything will be fine.

#23 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

And no, Storm is not and never has been, a member of the Avengers

These articles say that she joined avengers

http://www.newsarama.com/15446-storm-on-the-avengers-10-surprising-superteam-additions.html

http://marvel.com/news/story/18421/earths_mightiest_costumes_storm

Back In Black

For much of the past decade, Ororo has sported a look that combines many of the details of her previous ones. Like the original it's black and has almost the exact same cape. She also kept the tiara, but changed up the chest area, leaving that more open than in previous incarnations. She wore this costume when she met back up with the man who would become her husband, The Black Panther, when the two of them filled in for Reed and Sue Richards in the Fantastic Four, and just recently in AVENGERS when she joined the team!

More on Marvel.com:

http://marvel.com/news/story/18421/earths_mightiest_costumes_storm#ixzz2enzA3B3P

That wasn't Storm. It was a Storm-bot. And its time on the Avengers was a bloody travesty.

#24 Posted by darthphoenix (691 posts) - - Show Bio

storm-bot? sorry i didnt get that. i just started reading again in AVX. I just thought she became an avenger because i keep seeing her in covers or pages of the avengers with beast and wolverine. did some research and articles said that she did join the avengers

#25 Posted by jhazzroucher (15544 posts) - - Show Bio

And no, Storm is not and never has been, a member of the Avengers

These articles say that she joined avengers

http://www.newsarama.com/15446-storm-on-the-avengers-10-surprising-superteam-additions.html

http://marvel.com/news/story/18421/earths_mightiest_costumes_storm

Back In Black

For much of the past decade, Ororo has sported a look that combines many of the details of her previous ones. Like the original it's black and has almost the exact same cape. She also kept the tiara, but changed up the chest area, leaving that more open than in previous incarnations. She wore this costume when she met back up with the man who would become her husband, The Black Panther, when the two of them filled in for Reed and Sue Richards in the Fantastic Four, and just recently in AVENGERS when she joined the team!

More on Marvel.com:

http://marvel.com/news/story/18421/earths_mightiest_costumes_storm#ixzz2enzA3B3P

Storm joined. That means, she became an Avenger.

#26 Posted by jumpman72001 (37 posts) - - Show Bio
@hawk2916 said:

It does seem that theres a battle on the way. The just seemed to balk ar being ordered around by Storm at the moment. I still wonder about the significance of Kitty channeling her inner Cyclops last issue and saying basically" to me my xmen". This latest issue she seems to speak a little more favorably about Cyclops. I wonder if we will see another Schism spring out of this and shake the teams up again

What issue did she say that in? I want to read it

Storm sucks. Kitty and Rachel rock. Cyclops is the best.

#27 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

storm-bot? sorry i didnt get that. i just started reading again in AVX. I just thought she became an avenger because i keep seeing her in covers or pages of the avengers with beast and wolverine. did some research and articles said that she did join the avengers

Lol. Did you read those Avenger issues where she supposedly "joined" ?

#28 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix said:

storm-bot? sorry i didnt get that. i just started reading again in AVX. I just thought she became an avenger because i keep seeing her in covers or pages of the avengers with beast and wolverine. did some research and articles said that she did join the avengers

Lol. Did you read those Avenger issues where she supposedly "joined" ?

Clearly not or that post would mention more purple spit.

#29 Posted by darthphoenix (691 posts) - - Show Bio

The article was from the marvel website

#30 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:
@darthphoenix said:

storm-bot? sorry i didnt get that. i just started reading again in AVX. I just thought she became an avenger because i keep seeing her in covers or pages of the avengers with beast and wolverine. did some research and articles said that she did join the avengers

Lol. Did you read those Avenger issues where she supposedly "joined" ?

Clearly not or that post would mention more purple spit.

Ex-bloody--actly. Not even an era in "its" life that i like getting into, the whole period brings forth horrid images. Specifically the purple frothing at the mouth.

#31 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: I think there were plans to reveal that the Avengers Storm was an alien in disguise but they got scrapped.

At least that's a nicer explanation than the truth that she was just treated like crap. XP

#32 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: I think there were plans to reveal that the Avengers Storm was an alien in disguise but they got scrapped.

At least that's a nicer explanation than the truth that she was just treated like crap. XP

I really wouldn't have minded that, at least not so much because Jessica Drew received the exact same mishap during his NA run, but yeah. The whole thing was totes crap, as expected. Excuse the negativity.

#33 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: Negativity is alright, understandable if your favorite character gets put on a team and then just is doesn't do anything. Would have been mad myself if it happened to one of my favs.

#34 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4423 posts) - - Show Bio

A position Kitty would never have retained if Scott didn't grovel at Ororo's feat to stay on Utopia. Kitty didn't give her anything. She abruptly stepped down to settle for lesser duties i.e nannying the Bore-5 while Storm stepped up as that's her right and responsibility.

It need not be said. Who lead this team to find Jubilee ? Who lead this team to find Arkea ? Who lead this team to save an airplane full of people ? You've said it yourself, Storm's wasted on a team she isn't leading, not that i agree with that, but i don't see your point here.

Storm kindly asked them to stay put for logical and tactical purposes. Simple instructions that were disregarded. There is no philosophical reasoning behind it. She's not the one who needs to change her approach as she's done nothing to warrant a deference, they're the ones acting out of hand. And both Kitty and Rachel know where the door is.

I think you're missing my point. Yeah, Storm was, is, and should be the leader of the X-men, but she only holds that role because her teammates follow her. Xavier made her leader of the team, and she took that responsibility and owned it. But it hasn't been Xavier's call for a long time now, his authority is gone; if Storm leads the X-men now it's because the X-men follow her. We've already seen this in her conflict with Colossus.

She has no place making characters like Kitty, Colossus, or even Rachel, subordinate to her, because, it's really them that gives her any authority at all. It's not an official thing, it's given to her by those that agree she should lead, by their following her. Simply, if Storm can't manage her team to not go against what she thinks is best, then she's already having that authority taken away; she's already failing to truly lead them.

It's one thing to lead a bunch of kids because it's your responsibility to look out for them, it's another to lead a group of your peers. If Storm can't lead without treating her fellow X-men as equals, who should have earned her respect long ago, then, well, she knows where the door is as well. Arguably, better, actually..

Not that I think it will come to that. Honestly, given that this has become something of a theme with Wood's Storm, I feel like it's more likely going in the direction of her realizing she has to adapt, to change and develop as a leader, because of all this entertaining drama. Which is far more interesting for her character development anyway than just having everyone treat her word as law.

Remember how cool Storm was when she still had something to prove? I feel like Wood does, and I'm digging that.

#35 Edited by ItsDaveyJ (196 posts) - - Show Bio

What I don't understand is that Kitty has been on a team "under" Storm in the past before. She of all people as a danger room instructor and former headmistress should know that Storm is qualified to lead and that there are more appropriate ways to question the authority of whoever stepped up to be team leader than to stubbornly disobey orders. Kitty should know to pull her aside and bring it up maturely. Rachel... well I'm not familiar enough with her character but she seems to be a little childish.

I will say that Brian Wood's Storm tends to come off much more harsh and less empathetic than other writer's Storms. He doesn't really capture the nurturing and sort of motherly aspect of Storm. He writes her a bit too strongly for my tastes. So I can sort of understand why there are issues under this Storm's command but in the grand scheme of how Storm is portrayed in comics... it doesn't make sense. Really who has questioned Storm's leadership? Kitty, Rachel, Colossus, and Cyclops. 3 out of these 4 have been under the pen of Brian Wood. Just an interesting fact of how he writes Storm and how he makes everyone around her react to her actions.

#36 Posted by jhazzroucher (15544 posts) - - Show Bio

What I don't understand is that Kitty has been on a team "under" Storm in the past before. She of all people as a danger room instructor and former headmistress should know that Storm is qualified to lead and that there are more appropriate ways to question the authority of whoever stepped up to be team leader than to stubbornly disobey orders. Kitty should know to pull her aside and bring it up maturely. Rachel... well I'm not familiar enough with her character but she seems to be a little childish.

I will say that Brian Wood's Storm tends to come off much more harsh and less empathetic than other writer's Storms. He doesn't really capture the nurturing and sort of motherly aspect of Storm. He writes her a bit too strongly for my tastes. So I can sort of understand why there are issues under this Storm's command but in the grand scheme of how Storm is portrayed in comics... it doesn't make sense. Really who has questioned Storm's leadership? Kitty, Rachel, Colossus, and Cyclops. 3 out of these 4 have been under the pen of Brian Wood. Just an interesting fact of how he writes Storm and how he makes everyone around her react to her actions.

You have a point there. I am really surprised that Kitty would not support Storm. They like have a mother-daughter relationship. I'm not sure about Rachel but I think Colossus would side with Storm rather than with Cyclops.

#37 Posted by HAWK2916 (1645 posts) - - Show Bio

@itsdaveyj: You make a good point.

I feel like its not really an issue of questioning Storm's ultimate leadership rather it just has to do with the situation. While Storm is a leader it doesn't necessarily mean that no one else can have any input. I definitely can understand how Rachel feels about forcibly sending the O5 back against their will. And Kitty has shown herself to be independent before. I still remember how she went at Emma in the past also how she gave it to Xavier as well. I just think that on this issue it wouldn't matter if it were Storm or Wolverine or Cyclops or Professor X himself there will be some that feel differently and may not go along with the so-called leader's choice. I really think its more an issue of Kitty and Rachel not agreeing with a decision in this instance more so than them questioning or challenging Storm's overall leadership.

#38 Posted by ItsDaveyJ (196 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916

If it was merely a disagreement then there wouldn't be as much of an issue. The issue is HOW they are expressing their disagreement. You would think seasoned X-men would know to respect the chain of command and if there is an issue then address it through the appropriate channels. Like it or not, the X-men sort of have a quasi-military structure to it and as such employs similar rules and regulations.

#39 Posted by stormphoenix (923 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont know kitty and rachel are just being irrational i think they trying to piss her off. Haha i wouldnt do that they will unleash the fury of the storm

#40 Posted by darthphoenix (691 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't wait for the next issues of BOTA. it really gets exciting. I'd really love to see storm vs rachel

#41 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

So happy I'm not invested in this.

#42 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane said:

A position Kitty would never have retained if Scott didn't grovel at Ororo's feat to stay on Utopia. Kitty didn't give her anything. She abruptly stepped down to settle for lesser duties i.e nannying the Bore-5 while Storm stepped up as that's her right and responsibility.

It need not be said. Who lead this team to find Jubilee ? Who lead this team to find Arkea ? Who lead this team to save an airplane full of people ? You've said it yourself, Storm's wasted on a team she isn't leading, not that i agree with that, but i don't see your point here.

Storm kindly asked them to stay put for logical and tactical purposes. Simple instructions that were disregarded. There is no philosophical reasoning behind it. She's not the one who needs to change her approach as she's done nothing to warrant a deference, they're the ones acting out of hand. And both Kitty and Rachel know where the door is.

I think you're missing my point. Yeah, Storm was, is, and should be the leader of the X-men, but she only holds that role because her teammates follow her. Xavier made her leader of the team, and she took that responsibility and owned it. But it hasn't been Xavier's call for a long time now, his authority is gone; if Storm leads the X-men now it's because the X-men follow her. We've already seen this in her conflict with Colossus.

She has no place making characters like Kitty, Colossus, or even Rachel, subordinate to her, because, it's really them that gives her any authority at all. It's not an official thing, it's given to her by those that agree she should lead, by their following her. Simply, if Storm can't manage her team to not go against what she thinks is best, then she's already having that authority taken away; she's already failing to truly lead them.

It's one thing to lead a bunch of kids because it's your responsibility to look out for them, it's another to lead a group of your peers. If Storm can't lead without treating her fellow X-men as equals, who should have earned her respect long ago, then, well, she knows where the door is as well. Arguably, better, actually..

Not that I think it will come to that. Honestly, given that this has become something of a theme with Wood's Storm, I feel like it's more likely going in the direction of her realizing she has to adapt, to change and develop as a leader, because of all this entertaining drama. Which is far more interesting for her character development anyway than just having everyone treat her word as law.

Remember how cool Storm was when she still had something to prove? I feel like Wood does, and I'm digging that.

Your point lacks water.

In a nutshell: Storm needs to reevaluate her approach to leading peers because she respectfully told them to say behind? She didn't demean nor did she wrongfully assert her position in this instance. It was a simple instruction and she explained herself as for the why, if she didn't, then i'd concede that she was treating them as subs, but she told them--so, what, exactly, is the big deal? Le nothing.

Please remember that Storm allowed Jubilee, the youngest member of that team, with child, on the Arkea mission--instead of shelving her for w.e reason. Just remember it and take into consideration while you enforce this subordinate talk.

Rachel and Kitty are two people, they do not wholly constitute her entire team nor do they speak for the X-Men. Colossus is irrelevant to this situation. They're under her leadership and if they don't like how things are going, then, like i said, they know where the door is. Rachel questioning Storm as to whether she thinks she's the leader of the X-Men because of the Karima situation and then replying confidently with "...someone has to be", says it all.

It doesn't really have anything to do with Storm--she's not the problem as i've stated, she may have to delve into introspection for other things within her life, but leadership is not one of them. She's doing fine as is, if anything this should enforce more of that Goddess condescension as she was far too lenient in this issue.

Otherwise, just specifically show and tell me where, in this instance, Storm actually treated them as subordinates barring the "ordered" debacle.

#43 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

I will say that Brian Wood's Storm tends to come off much more harsh and less empathetic than other writer's Storms. He doesn't really capture the nurturing and sort of motherly aspect of Storm. He writes her a bit too strongly for my tastes. So I can sort of understand why there are issues under this Storm's command but in the grand scheme of how Storm is portrayed in comics... it doesn't make sense. Really who has questioned Storm's leadership? Kitty, Rachel, Colossus, and Cyclops. 3 out of these 4 have been under the pen of Brian Wood. Just an interesting fact of how he writes Storm and how he makes everyone around her react to her actions.

Brian Wood writes the modern and definitive Ororo Munroe, taking all things into consideration. The motherly aspect is still there of course, but this isn't 1985. Things have changed and she's also changing; her marriage recently just broke down, the JGS is a place she's still quite unfamiliar with and because of everything that's happened she's shut the personal problems off and focused more on the mission than herself.

She's been like this since Claremont, although if you're looking for a more motherly and passive Storm, i'll refer you to Bendis ANXM and Aaron's WATX. You'll find she stands around for the most time spouting the occasional one-lliner or two and serves no relevance to the plot at hand. Should satiate you.

Though, Sherlock, Wood is a fantastic writer. His characters are flawed, make mistakes and are easy to relate to because of those human flaws that we all possess. Leadership is questioned irl, everywhere, the only reason it seems odd is because the X-Men have been riddled with an array of bad writers where everyone blindly follows the leader with no qualms--see Cyclops and Wolverine when the name "Jean Grey" isn't mentioned.

#44 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

Can I just say I wasn't reading BOTA and thus was very confused when I got a tie in that didn't actually have anything to do with the plot of the book I was actually reading. >:(

#45 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4423 posts) - - Show Bio

In a nutshell: Storm needs to reevaluate her approach to leading peers because she respectfully told them to say behind? She didn't demean nor did she wrongfully assert her position in this instance. It was a simple instruction and she explained herself as for the why, if she didn't, then i'd concede that she was treating them as subs, but she told them--so, what, exactly, is the big deal? Le nothing.

I don't get what Kitty and Rachel's point was either, but that doesn't invalidate it.

Please remember that Storm allowed Jubilee, the youngest member of that team, with child, on the Arkea mission--instead of shelving her for w.e reason. Just remember it and take into consideration while you enforce this subordinate talk.

left her in the car, actually.

Rachel and Kitty are two people, they do not wholly constitute her entire team nor do they speak for the X-Men. Colossus is irrelevant to this situation.

I disagree that Kitty or Colossus' voices have ever been irrelevant to the X-men.

They're under her leadership and if they don't like how things are going, then, like i said, they know where the door is.

And, like I said, if the likes of Kitty and Colossus won't follow Storm, how is she actually leading the X-men? How does she actually define the team if those members have lost faith in her? She just becomes another Cyclops, a self appointed leader of hypocrites.

It doesn't really have anything to do with Storm--she's not the problem as i've stated, she may have to delve into introspection for other things within her life, but leadership is not one of them. She's doing fine as is, if anything this should enforce more of that Goddess condescension as she was far too lenient in this issue.

Otherwise, just specifically show and tell me where, in this instance, Storm actually treated them as subordinates barring the "ordered" debacle.

As I've said, this issue is just indicative of a reoccurring theme with Storm. If she were not the issue, we wouldn't be having this debate.

#46 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler said:

@ageofhurricane said:

In a nutshell: Storm needs to reevaluate her approach to leading peers because she respectfully told them to say behind? She didn't demean nor did she wrongfully assert her position in this instance. It was a simple instruction and she explained herself as for the why, if she didn't, then i'd concede that she was treating them as subs, but she told them--so, what, exactly, is the big deal? Le nothing.

I don't get what Kitty and Rachel's point was either, but that doesn't invalidate it.

Please remember that Storm allowed Jubilee, the youngest member of that team, with child, on the Arkea mission--instead of shelving her for w.e reason. Just remember it and take into consideration while you enforce this subordinate talk.

left her in the car, actually.

Rachel and Kitty are two people, they do not wholly constitute her entire team nor do they speak for the X-Men. Colossus is irrelevant to this situation.

I disagree that Kitty or Colossus' voices have ever been irrelevant to the X-men.

They're under her leadership and if they don't like how things are going, then, like i said, they know where the door is.

And, like I said, if the likes of Kitty and Colossus won't follow Storm, how is she actually leading the X-men? How does she actually define the team if those members have lost faith in her? She just becomes another Cyclops, a self appointed leader of hypocrites.

It doesn't really have anything to do with Storm--she's not the problem as i've stated, she may have to delve into introspection for other things within her life, but leadership is not one of them. She's doing fine as is, if anything this should enforce more of that Goddess condescension as she was far too lenient in this issue.

Otherwise, just specifically show and tell me where, in this instance, Storm actually treated them as subordinates barring the "ordered" debacle.

As I've said, this issue is just indicative of a reoccurring theme with Storm. If she were not the issue, we wouldn't be having this debate.

They've no solid basis to back up their behavior or your claims of subordination. "Point" has been invalidated.

So she could carry out infrastructure research (and research on Shogo) without endangering the child or herself, actually. Unless you would have liked to Storm to place them in the thick of that battle ?

Piotr's voice is irrelevant to this situation. I repeat: this situation. I mean, he couldn't care less about everything that went down as himself and Domino have scored the honey-moon they've obviously wanted.

Because she told them to stay behind? Lololol nah. It's not that deep. She became another Scott in the previous run, yes. But here she maintains integrity and respect at all fronts. Who are Rachel, Kitty and Colossus that she should worry so about her own fidelity to mutantkind and vice versa ? Le nobodies. People change, things change.

#47 Posted by ItsDaveyJ (196 posts) - - Show Bio

@ageofhurricane: I would argue against the notion that Wood writes the definitive Storm. Maybe he writes your favorite Storm... but at the moment Storm is being shared between a variety of writers. If she ever gets her own ongoing solo... whoever pens that will write the "definitive" Storm. Or if this X-men run goes on for years with Wood at the helm... THEN maybe he will have written the definitive Storm. But who has or has not written the definitive Storm is subjective... although I think most people agree that Claremont established the character in her early years.

Basically, I feel that Wood is trying too hard to write Storm as "tough, modern, badass woman" and not enough as a fully fleshed out human being. This is an issue I come across in a lot of writing where people try to create that strong, independent woman character and end up making them bland. As a result, this new "Wood" Storm comes off way too harsh. And it doesn't sync with the rest of her current portrayals either. People seem to like this new version of Storm though so maybe it will stick. As for me, I just find it bland "strong woman" writing.

#48 Posted by adamTRMM (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

She just becomes another Cyclops, a self appointed leader of hypocrites.

So do you think Cyclops is a self appointed leader of hypocrites?

Well, things have changed and leadership is not something to be taken for granted now. Once it was Cyclops who appointed the leaders. Now, it is a subject to be discussed, that's my guess. Storm have taken the leadership by her nature, without actually asking. It's still unclear what is going on between the girls, but at least this way of questioning is much more interesting than military-like hierarchy (that isn't even defined!) and subordination Storm demands.

#49 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@itsdaveyj said:

@ageofhurricane:

I would argue against the notion that Wood writes the definitive Storm. Maybe he writes your favorite Storm... but at the moment Storm is being shared between a variety of writers. If she ever gets her own ongoing solo... whoever pens that will write the "definitive" Storm. Or if this X-men run goes on for years with Wood at the helm... THEN maybe he will have written the definitive Storm. But who has or has not written the definitive Storm is subjective... although I think most people agree that Claremont established the character in her early years.

Basically, I feel that Wood is trying too hard to write Storm as "tough, modern, badass woman" and not enough as a fully fleshed out human being. This is an issue I come across in a lot of writing where people try to create that strong, independent woman character and end up making them bland. As a result, this new "Wood" Storm comes off way too harsh. And it doesn't sync with the rest of her current portrayals either. People seem to like this new version of Storm though so maybe it will stick. As for me, I just find it bland "strong woman" writing.

Indeed she is being shared by a variety of writers and unfortunately, the writer who writes her how she should be written, taking all things into consideration, isn't writing her the way you'd like to see it. Sorry. I'll take Bendis off that list because he's not worth the elaborate discussion--leaving us with Humphries and Aaron. Compare their portrayals to Wood, compare what they have done for the character since they've been writing her, and the other characters in their own titles, to what Wood has done. It's not subjective, it's just obvious. Majority fan reactions state as much. Getting an ongoing solo adds nothing to the matter if the writer is Fraction or Hudlin, because that's not even close to who she is. Definitive is as close as it gets to the original (Claremont, and, yeah, genius, everyone would agree that Claremont established her) in comparison to what's at present.

What are these "current portrayals" you speak of, and which writers are delivering them ?

P.S just in case you forgot, Storm is a strong woman. You'd find it bland cause she's been written with the personality of a brick wall for some time now, up until Wood. It's a big transition, i know.

#50 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio