Are fans being punished for the Marvel/Fox feud?

So, Marvel has more or less been downgrading the X-MEN sense they don't have the film rights. Merchandise has been cancelled, it doesn't look like there's going to be as many X-MEN books anymore, and it's been 6 years sense the last X-MEN animated series, and as a fan I can't help but feel like I'm being punished for a feud I have no say in. Does anyone else feel that way?

Yes. And they don't care.

The worst thing is the cancelation of good animated cartoon over bad one inspired by better movie.

Oh and the Inhuman thing pushing over and over is really boring and innecfective.

Yes. Fans are the ones being punished

The idea that fans are being punished is one that hinges on a sense of fan entitlement which I simply do not feel.

or, to put it more bluntly, if you feel you are being persecuted by this, it's only because you feel entitled to something that doesn't exist.

So, never mind the thousands of X-men comics that do already exist, never mind all the enjoyment you've already had from reading these comics, never mind any of that. Keep thinking you're owed something simply because you want it. See where that gets you. :/

@oldnightcrawler: the man has a point

This and don't forget the FF.

They canned the F4 books. They also made Wanda and Quicksilver non-mutant. They made the Fox characters disappear in the cover of the Secret Wars reprint. Not only that, but they are also hurting themselves. They canceled one of their best show(EMH) and why is that ? Because Avengers movie was a success. And believe me when I say this I couldn't care less if MCU had succeeded or failed if it meant that EMH would get a satisfying run and a conclusion that is not a rushed almost exact copy of JLU's finale.

@oldnightcrawler: So in your mind the fued between the two companies is not affecting anything. And fans have no right to have an opinion. The Xmen are being promoted like never before and are getting the greatest development in history. I guess Fantastic Four fans are enjoying a heyday right now too.

I don't think its entitlement. I think its opinion. Im sure if we want to be objective we can point to several stories and developments that were basically fan service. And really if the fans don't buy then the company loses money. Fans should start to realize that and stop spending the money then crying. That's what really talks

:v which man?

I didn't say it wasn't effecting things, nor did I say fans have no right to an opinion.

what I said was that no one owes you entertainment. you bought the ticket, you took the ride; that you enjoyed the ride doesn't mean the carnival owes you more rides.

And, sure, sales are what talks. So stop buying X-men comics if you want them to stop making them, keep buying them if you do. Either way, you get what you pay for. That's not a punishment, that's actually just fair.

@oldnightcrawler: Yeah. I'd don't think the question was about whether anyone owes anybody entertainment though. I think like most threads this was about opinion which people have a right to voice. If you are a paying customer you can say whether something was to your liking or not. So thw you get what you pay for line doesnt work here in this instance. Smart people listen to that and improve that's what test groups and all that is for. And really customers help dictate the market. Fox and Marvel are fueding and so Fox keeps making movies and Marcel day codes to downgrade one product and push something else. Somebody gets the short end of the stick and its the fans of the product being downgraded. Because movies come around every 2-3 sometimes 5 years. While comics are more frequent. The movies are based interpretations of the old comics. I think fans can voice their disappointment with the current direction of something because the corporate babies are throw a tantrum. I think anyone with sense will know that not everything will be to their liking. Hell even if you are the one that created it because over time you change. And everything that has ever been made can be improved upon.But to act like the quality of the comics has not been affected and to say that basically voicing an opinion or thinking that professionals would act like grownups or even put more effort into what they are doing, all stems from a sense of entitlement is kind of insulting and ridiculous. But then again fan is short for fanatic which we all are and fans do, say, and feel all kinds of crazy sh*t so what do I know.

Actually, it's been 5 years since the last animated series. Remember the X-Men anime in 2010?

We are getting punished by progressive PR stunts and the feud with Fox yes

No, we're simply getting the short end of the stick.

Yes.

sure, and my opinion is that this opinion is based on fans feeling like they are owed something that I don't think they are. You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to disagree with it.

Sure, but that still doesn't mean marvel owes me or anyone good X-men comics. And I'm fine with that. I actually like a lot of what the movies have added to the mythos more than what the comics have in recent years. If marvel honestly doesn't want me to buy X-men comics -which, let's be real, seems unlikely- I'm okay with that.

But, besides that it just seems unlikely to me that marvel would actively sabotage their own product (X-men comics are a thing they make to make money), so much as that they want their other properties to be just as popular.

Again, that's their business. I haven't got the short end of anything; I've read thousands of X-men comics that wouldn't have existed if they weren't in the business they are. I love these characters because of what I have read, not because of what might or might not happen next issue or next year.

sure, you can voice your disappointment.

feel better now?

I agree with you somewhat that the quality of X-men comics over the last few years has gone down, I just doubt very highly that that's intentional. Who sits down to make a comic book (or anything) and says, "okay, we have to make these X-men comics because they make money, but our boss' boss' bosses don't like some other dudes' bosses, so we have to make sure we don't make them very good" -do you understand how insanely paranoid that sounds?

Is it somehow a more far-fetched idea that the people creating the comics simply have a different vision of what would make those comics entertaining to them than what you have? Some X-men fans love Morrison, some hate him; some X-men fans love Stan Lee, others don't. Just because you don't like the X-men comics you're reading doesn't mean someone owes you something you will like.

You aren't being punished by not being entertained; you just aren't being entertained.

That you see that as a punishment implies a sense of entitlement.

@oldnightcrawler: No it doesn't. Like I said its an opinion not a sense of entitlement. Honestly if I don't like something I may choose to voice it on a message board like this but I tend to back it up with my wallet. I've stopped buying comics before and will do it again because why pay for what you don't like right. That's insane. Now do I think Marvel is just sabotaging the Xmen to shoot themselves...not really. I do think its some truth to trying to devalue a product so that you can gain control of it. That's an old wall street and mafia tactic. I also think that the best and brightest are not being put on the x-books because why build up something that you don't own completely when you can take care of what you do right? So other properties are being built up which is fine but at times it seems like its done at the expense of the Xmen. Do I think at times someone has a great idea for the xmen but is made by the higher ups to apply said idea to another property, yes I do. Its not a conspiracy its being a realest because honestly if I was in that position I would do the same thing. Just keep our heads above water and ride things out until we can get things back in house. And thats the approach I think Marvel takes. Even some writers in candid moments will confess this, of course that coyld be sour grapes too but when you look at the talk a out independents vs the Marvels and DC's of the world, writers seem to love not veing told by higher ups what they can and cant do based on whatever it is the higher ups agenda is for the day. Sure its not far-fetched that someone may have a different vision than what longtime fans who have read every issue do. But being a person who has worked in editing I also know that sometimes writers are not focusing on exactly the right thing but rather shock value and all the other stuff thats just a passing fad as opposed to just telling good stories. Maybe its just the nature of the beast these days but the big turnover every 12 issues may be part of the quality issue and the so-called different vision you are talking about. The people who get irritated by it are the fans though. Its really a play on words I guess though because I don't see voicing an opinion or feeling that the quality is not what it was as being entitled. Especially when its more of a valid reason as opposed to being upset and not buying a book or seeing a movie because one character you may not like is in it or your personal favorite is not. But sometimes the apologist get on these boards and I wonder if I'm dealing with a fellow fan or a Marvel employee the way they defend every little thing. To each his own though and if you are frolicking in the joys and sunshine of everything Marvel so be it. Im happy for you and enhoy it because as you know they love to retcon the hell out of sh*t and I guess then some will be mad then right? Lol. By the way your attempt at condescension was pretty funny too.

X-Men had some pretty crappy storylines in the past years, maybe that's a factor. And given that the same guy is now writing Guardians of the Galaxy for Marvel, we can assume they didn't send him to assassinate the franchise, they also add an X-Men and an Fantastic Four member to the Guardians team after already adding a Spider-Man character earlier. Likewise Marvel has like three ongoing Deadpool titles announced for post secret wars.

The truth is that other franchises have simply become more popular and interesting to people and it is no longer warranted to have half your books be X-Men books. The truth is also that the moment you don't write X-Men on a book X-Fans are tearing it apart. Uncanny Avengers was essentially an X-Men book, with none mutant members on the team, but people started to complain how they dared putting Rogue on the team instead of one of the other X-Men teams. Why? Did Bendis do such an outstanding job with the character that people wanted to see where he would take her? Uncanny Inhumans is criticized for stealing that part of its name, but is actually a story about mutants and Inhumans.

I heard the FF sales were shit. Hence why they were canned.

I think fans, if anything, are receiving punishment for their stupidity, their affable fickleness and inability to effectuate beneficial change in the face of a seemingly adverse vicissitude of sorts. Case in point: monetarily supporting titles that you don't like, simultaneously complaining about aforementioned titles, whilst continuing to support aforementioned titles and decrying malcontent. Of course really and truly I don't believe that the higher ups at Marvel have it out for the X-Men fanbase, they're just going off what their sales and sparring fan feedback have relayed to them. People like Austen, Fraction and Bendis--for all the negative flack that comes their way, still managed to enjoy lengthy but objectively abominable (i can and most certainly will argue this point) X-Men runs, and for what? Fans at the time loathed their runs, yet for some unfathomable reason--they still bought the issues regardless? Why???

Why buy/support something that you don't like and don't want anymore of? Where's the logic? Where's the sense? And if there is something you find serious fault with--how in the heck is incessantly whining about it gonna solve anything?!?!?! *smserioush*

Marvel isn't punishing the fans anymore than the fans have been focal in the destruction of the franchise by blindly supporting writers that have driven it to the ground.

QFT

If you really want to change the status quo, than quit supporting titles with your wallet. Marvel could care less about Fox's rights. All they care about is money. Do you think for one second that they would have stopped making a Fantastic Four book if the sales were amazing? No. That is not good business. There are plenty of people who hates Bendis these past two years, yet they continuously bought his book, for what? The hope that something better might come? That is also silly, and the definition of insanity.

The reality is this; as long as they make money, Marvel will continue to push the product. A company that big does not care about it's creators or it's integrity to make good stories. In fact, quite the opposite (which is an argument for a later time).

At this point the current state of the X-Men and it's fans are due to self-mutilation. The same exact thing happened in the 90's.

@oldnightcrawler: you lol.

Yea not that I want to argue the silliness of either side but let's be real for a sec.

Anyone assuming that Marvel is purposely punishing fans is insane.

Are we a casualty of their strategy with dealing with Fox? Yes. Are they doing it to spite us? No. Its how money works, they have judged that the happiness of the X-Men fan base(as fickle as we are) isn't enough of a financial factor to detour their current

business strategy of isolating Fox's profit. They decided that as long as the X-Men remain steady in their sales then they can continue to play hardball while increasing revenue from new sources.

But this idea that somehow not buying a book is going to impact them isn't realistic. The fact is that their isnt a legitimate way to get people to stop buying bad titles because we can't even agree on what makes a good one, and more then that if we could agree that still doesn't effect everyone who buys the books just to keep up with the story.

The truth is that its more likely that people can organize around a common complaint of "bad art" "no direction" or "zero motivation" and shout that complaint in one voice until it effects change then it is to convince someone to take nothing as opposed to half of something.

The fact is I don't read X-Men for the same reasons you do. I don't have the same financial situation you do. So even if I think Bendis' Uncanny isnt performing well, I'd keep reading with the hopes of it getting better or watching where the story goes. I read the X-Men to see where the story goes, so while I might think All New X-Men sucks if I've got an 8hour night shift to prepare for an some money in my pocket I'm more likely to buy a couple of issues of that then I am to buy what I consider to be a. Equally bad series like Catwoman or Justice League 3000,because I can at least discuss and debate what I like and dislike in the book, and maybe it could shape the bigger picture or my perception of the book while those other books have no impact except in that their bad. And that attitude alone makes me the worst person to help stage a protest for quality because all I'd really be doing is punishing myself.

This isn't like apple vs Samsung where they have to fight for consumers, if you are interested in the X-Men your not gonna go buy a superman book until Marvel updates its OS. Its not the same. Marvel has no reason or insentive to give us what we want because history has proven that Ignored complaints eventually become background noise... Claremont's style is so vaunted and praised yet we haven't seen a return to that.

On the other hand, what we have scene is that in this latest relaunch we've had creators use the phrase direction, interactions, creative team, and referencing collaboration in deciding what path the books will take. Hell all 3 books not only launch from the same event but almost seem to be reacting to each others premises. Which is what people have been "whining" about for years. This is a fandom what we like and dislike is important and we come here to vocalize it, we shouldnt expect quality or cry conspiracy when something isn't up to snuff but we should have an opinion on what it looks like and whether were getting it.

@dman1366: Exactly. I've now begrudgingly come to the realization that it's all about the maximization of profits and acquisition of lucre through whatever possible and feasible avenue--and such avenues will be maintained if the reception to these avenues doesn't change, sadly I was far too deluded in the past to notice this, and fell astray. But, ultimately, what we've established is that the greatest obstacle that the X-Men face going forward, their biggest and most deadliest threat--are their fans, but more specifically, the inability of said fans to take evasive action and far too easily opting for indignation and self-pity over the quality of things without looking at the source: themselves (excluding myself with pride).

:)

Really and truly, the fact of the matter is that you never got anywhere by exercising peripheral measures. You never got anywhere by refraining from striking the source of the problem and you most certainly didn't get very far by sitting on your hands hoping that things would get better (wtf?!?!).

Like I said and have done, fans should use message boards to voice their opinions. But the loudest voice is your wallet. I will and have gladly stopped buying what I don't like. Fans are not shareholders and buying just to support does nothing. In fact the way people post scans and summarize issues its not really necessary to buy in order to keep up. The fans are a problem sure, that's not a profound statement or revelation. But there is sometimes a bit of an agenda behind some things that happen and unless you've lived under a rock all your life in some backwoods hick commune, I think anyone with sense knows that's how the world works.

Good for you!

Chocolate chip, peanut butter or oatmeal raisin?